Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hydrualic Hydra]

All this pro/anti talk about Waluigi and I'm not sure what to think. On the one hand, yeah, he could be a really fun edition. After Paper Mario and Fawful, he's my most wanted Mario rep.

... Yet there'd be something innately wrong about Waluigi getting into Smash. It's fundamentally to do with his character. Look how Wario is a corrupted and grotesque version of Mario. For Mario, it's all about saving the princess and possibly saving the world. On the way he may collect a load of coins, but that's hardly his end goal. Yet for Wario, getting money and treasure is what it's all about. If he happens to save a princess or a kingdom then whatever, but it's more of a side effect of his actions. This is most blatant in a scene where he literally chucks the princess he just saved to the side so he can claim his treasure.

What I'm getting at is that a similar situation goes for Luigi and Waluigi. One of Luigi's personality traits is his resentment at being overlooked and constantly living in his brother's shadow. Waluigi takes this to an extreme: he's self-pitying, thinks everyone else is cheating and yearns more than anything to be in the spotlight. Recognition to Waluigi is what money is to Wario. By including Waluigi in Smash - which is the Ultimate (har har) form of recognition - that would kind of go against his character. Yeah, it'd be nice for Waluigi to finally get what he wants, but then what could he be self-pitying and resentful over? The character is just a punchline to Nintendo and, as sad it is to see him constantly get dunked on, that's part of who he is.

... I dunno, probably overthinking this

I'm pretty sure Waluigi makes a pretty good case for being playable while remaining resentful and self-pitying in every Mario Kart, Mario Party, and Sports title he shows up in. So, every single playable appearance he has.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

guys.

He's in.

Also I don't see Geno being a problem for Sakurai, he already obtained his rights so he could at least make him a Mii costume, and Square seems to have let Sakurai have whatever FF character he wanted.

*Sees title* (lazy Version)
Yeah, makes sense...

 

[Deleted member]

A current running series one? Sadly not the case unless they've got a remake, beefed up re-release or sequel to SMRPG in the works.

Nah, they're making Geno Shut Up and Jam!, but a new title with him in it is in the works.

 

[Gyrom8]

If he got a taste of fame he'd just want more.
H's greedy, just like his...brother?...Friend?...Second Cousin Twice Removed?

I guess the next stage would him being in a game (Wario and Waluigi RPG when).

And yeah, Waluigi's relationship with Wario is fascinating in its mysteries.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Shantae is one of the most discussed third party characters amongst the Smash community, she's pretty much Ridley 2.0 at this point.

Believing that Shantae is Ridley 2.0 is even more delusional than believing Geno is a shoo-in.

 

[Iridium]

It's a really neat design, but I think K. Rool's final design looks better next to the Kongs. I could see Krudd being repurposed for something else though. He gives me a Ninja Turtles vibe, and that's not a bad thing.

Krudd looks like he belongs in a graphic novel. K Rool definitely fits more with the other Donkey Kong characters.
Not to say the design isn't cool, because it is.

I mean, even I'm not sure how that would have looked on the N64, though. I was thinking of how artwork doesn't always translate into the game the same way. In fact, there's something I'll look for right now...

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, even I'm not sure how that would have looked on the N64, though.

N64 Krudd sounds like a glorious trainwreck.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

It's not good to bring discussion to your character in a negative light.
Shantae's been noticed; for a long time now, she's well-loved.
What isn't well-loved is constantly propping her up as some sort of goddess. That only annoys people and drives them away from supporting her.

And Geno supporters don't prop up their character like a God? Give me a break. He's a good character on his own merits, but people really blow his significance out of proportion.

 

[Luigi The President]

And Geno supporters don't prop up their character like a God? Give me a break. He's a good character on his own merits, but people really blow his significance out of proportion.

Luckily I wasn't discussing Geno at all in any sort of relevance to the point you quoted!

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Actually, I take back what i said about being indifferent to Master Chief before. I think he'd be a great choice for a third party rep even if his franchise's relationship to Nintendo is virtually non-existent. In fact, I'd say he's my second-most wanted third party character now, only behind Sora.

Thank you. I’m glad to see someone else thinks like that. I would love to see the Spartan appear. Total hype fest that’s Cloud-tier.

 

[Gyrom8]

I'm pretty sure Waluigi makes a pretty good case for being playable while remaining resentful and self-pitying in every Mario Kart, Mario Party, and Sports title he shows up in. So, every single playable appearance he has.

Yeah but being playable in Smash is in another league: maybe Waluigi is self-pitying that he's stuck as spinoff fodder alongside generic Mario enemies like Koopas and Wigglers. Smash is a whole different level of recognition.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah but being playable in Smash is in another league: maybe Waluigi is self-pitying that he's stuck as spinoff fodder alongside generic Mario enemies like Koopas and Wigglers. Smash is a whole different level of recognition.

Which is why I'm glad Daisy isn't in this game

 

[Opossum]

Okay but imagine the reaction if Waluigi got announced as a DLC character the way Mewtwo did.

 

[amazonevan19]

Amidst all this Waluigi discussion, I am reminded of the fact that the youtuber SMG4 has made Waluigi a much more interesting character in his """canon""" (if you can call it that) than Nintendo probably ever will.

You may not like his sense of humor, but basically SMG4 paints Waluigi as a tragic villain who can only derive power and reach his true form through the rejection of others.

Edit:

Okay but imagine the reaction if Waluigi got announced as a DLC character the way Mewtwo did.

Kind of comparing apples to oranges - no AT has been confirmed as an AT and then promoted in the same smash cycle. Mewtwo WAS playable before, Waluigi's never been playable. But I get your point. It'd arguably be much more notable and hype if Sakurai changed his mind mid development and honestly if he did, I'd expect Ultimate to get delayed over it...or Waluigi being one of the last DLC characters.

 

[Luigi The President]

Okay but imagine the reaction if Waluigi got announced as a DLC character the way Mewtwo did.

Lyn/Ashley/Dillon/Starfy/ETC fans on watch

 

[Noipoi]

Okay but imagine the reaction if Waluigi got announced as a DLC character the way Mewtwo did.

Joy.

It'd finally be Waluigi time.

Spoiler

And it'd also show that assist trophies could be upgraded in the same game, giving Ashley another shot.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it also crazy to think that the order of which we're getting newcomers is when they were actually added to the game?


The whole "Character numbering" thing and Sakurai's own words seem to state that it "Shows when a character first appeared in Smash"..... so theoretically, someone like, Incineroar being one of the last characters kind of makes sense.


Though, the character numbering in general is off. We know Ganondorf was the last character due to Melee's debug ****, but then the Brawl stuff seems fairly accurate, and Smash4's is done via reveals.

It's supposed to be in order of when the character was officially exposed to the public.
This is why Ganondorf is where is for example despite being the last character added to Melee. The order for the Melee characters (specifically the unlockables since the starters were all revealed in one sitting aside from Zelda) is based on when their updates were on the Japanese Melee website.
Brawl's is also off in terms of when a character was added since in partition data, Wario is the first one and Ike (and I think Dedede) is lower down on the list than Lucario.
And Sonic is the last character added to the roster (not to the game itself; that'd be Wolf), but is before a lot of characters in the order for Ultimate because of when he was revealed.

Greninja is a similar case, being toward the end in partition data, but being one of the early ones in the numbering order.

 

[Gyrom8]

Which is why I'm glad Daisy isn't in this game

... Through the easier route of being echo material. And while I prefer Waluigi to Daisy, she does at least have presence in a few non-spinoff Mario games.

 

[Potato_]

Lyn/Ashley/Dillon/Starfy/ETC fans on watch

If anything they'd suddenly have a lot more going for them because it would show that the whole "AT's can't be playable" thing doesn't matter.

unless that is what you meant and I misunderstood

 

[Luigi The President]

... Through the easier route of being echo material. And while I prefer Waluigi to Daisy, she does at least have presence in a few non-spinoff Mario games.

So she's still in Smash. With her own victory screens, animations, alt costumes, taunts; everything. She is still a newcomer in Smash Bros, Echo or not.
I'm pretty sure Daisy's only presence is a 10-second appearance at the end of Super Mario Land. You can be as technical as you want, but she is FAR more known as a spin-off representative than a mainline character because that's what she has evolved to.

 

[Idon]

Lyn/Ashley/Dillon/Starfy/ETC fans on watch

It will be a long time coming.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Actually aside from Doom Guy, id also prefer a Warhammer 40k Ultramarine over Master Chief, i mean originated from a tabletop game so disqualified on that buuut if the Chief is possible why not

 

[Opossum]

Lyn/Ashley/Dillon/Starfy/ETC fans on watch

Honestly as a Starfy fan I'm just glad he hasn't gotten the Isaac treatment and wasn't removed entirely.

 

[Gyrom8]

So she's still in Smash. With her own victory screens, animations, alt costumes, taunts; everything. She is still a newcomer in Smash Bros, Echo or not.
I'm pretty sure Daisy's only presence is a 10-second appearance at the end of Super Mario Land. You can be as technical as you want, but she is FAR more known as a spin-off representative than a mainline character because that's what she has evolved to.

I think Nintendo also counts Super Mario Run as a mainline game, despite it being mobile.

This is beside the point though - it's not just literally 'oh Waluigi is only in spin-off games, he can't be in Smash', I never said that: all I'm saying is that him being a self-pitying reject who wants recognition is part of his character while it isn't for Daisy.

 

[Shroob]

16 days until this month's over.


While we're probably not getting a Direct in that time, a Direct within the first 2 weeks of November seems almost inevitable at this point.

 

[Iridium]

N64 Krudd sounds like a glorious trainwreck.

Yeah, this is it, right here. Not going to show it here for language.

 

[KMDP]

I blacked out reading that theres apparently a vegan alternative recipe to apple cider cookies as if apples were meat... whatd i miss.

Well, for one, Cookies contain Butter/Milk, which comes from Cows.

Also, there are some fruit and vegetables that (hardcore) Vegans can't eat because of... reasons that I can't recall (something about the method they're grown/delivered being "unnatural").

 

[Luigi The President]

I think Nintendo also counts Super Mario Run as a mainline game, despite it being mobile.

This is beside the point though - it's not just literally 'oh Waluigi is only in spin-off games, he can't be in Smash', I never said that: all I'm saying is that him being a self-pitying reject who wants recognition is part of his character while it isn't for Daisy.

Oh I literally forgot Mario Run existed so that tells you its impact

I don't really see what character has to do with it, I'm sure I'm just confused though. He's got more character and flavor than a lot of the roster imo. But that's just me.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, this is it, right here. Not going to show it here for language.

Oh boy, it's Gex!

 

[Noipoi]

16 days until this month's over.


While we're probably not getting a Direct in that time, a Direct within the first 2 weeks of November seems almost inevitable at this point.

16 days until this months over.
32 days until I die Let's Go.
52 days until Smash.
77 days until 2019.

 

[Gyrom8]

Oh I literally forgot Mario Run existed so that tells you its impact

I don't really see what character has to do with it, I'm sure I'm just confused though. He's got more character and flavor than a lot of the roster imo. But that's just me.

To reiterate: I have nothing against Waluigi, and like him as a character. I just think of him being rejected/foiled is kind of part of his charm.

 

[Luigi The President]

To reiterate: I have nothing against Waluigi, and like him as a character. I just think of him being rejected/foiled is kind of part of his charm.

What I find more charming is a constantly rejected character having his day in the sun, you know?

 

[KMDP]

16 days until this months over.
32 days until I die Let's Go.
52 days until Smash.
77 days until 2019.

Man, this year is moving fast.

 

[Iridium]

What I find more charming is a constantly rejected character having his day in the sun, you know?

To be honest, the only thing that would make me want Waluigi is a glorious t-pose. I don't care what for.

 

[Noipoi]

Man, this year is moving fast.

I know. it's amazing.
Smash is gonna be awesome, but Gen 8 is gonna be the highlight of my existence. Especially if it's as good as they say it'll be.
2019 can't come soon enough.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I’m not quite sure why people are already giving up on an October Direct. We’re only halfway through the month and there’s plenty of possibility for there to be a Direct this week or next.

I’m sure pessimism is to blame as well as the fact that this so called “drought” is making people go cuhraaaaaaazy. Patience people.

Try watching the previous Directs and get hyped for that all over again. Or better yet, laugh as Shokio gets BTFO in his Ridley reaction video that made him look super bad.

Then again, you’d give him more views than he deserves.

Eh, we’ll get some soon dudes. It’s just a matter of time. If they’re running out of items to show, they can only hold the characters off for so long, as they can’t sustain the blog until release without more information. Actually, that might be an interesting tidbit to find out...just to see how much more material they would have to fill in.

 

[Iridium]

I know. it's amazing.
Smash is gonna be awesome, but Gen 8 is gonna be the highlight of my existence. Especially if it's as good as they say it'll be.
2019 can't come soon enough.

Being able to play Final Fantasy for once would be great for me. Aside from that, not sure what other games I should wait for (aside from KH).

 

[Noipoi]

I’m not quite sure why people are already giving up on an October Direct. We’re only halfway through the month and there’s plenty of possibility for there to be a Direct this week or next.

I’m sure pessimism is to blame as well as the fact that this so called “drought” is making people go cuhraaaaaaazy. Patience people.

Try watching the previous Directs and get hyped for that all over again. Or better yet, laugh as Shokio gets BTFO in his Ridley reaction video that made him look super bad.

Then again, you’d give him more views than he deserves.

Eh, we’ll get some soon dudes. It’s just a matter of time. If they’re running out of items to show, they can only hold the characters off for so long, as they can’t sustain the blog until release without more information. Actually, that might be an interesting tidbit to find out...just to see how much more material they would have to fill in.

This is probably the only context in which it's okay to say "Thanks, Scoliosis."

 

[Shroob]

I’m not quite sure why people are already giving up on an October Direct. We’re only halfway through the month and there’s plenty of possibility for there to be a Direct this week or next.

I’m sure pessimism is to blame as well as the fact that this so called “drought” is making people go cuhraaaaaaazy. Patience people.

Try watching the previous Directs and get hyped for that all over again. Or better yet, laugh as Shokio gets BTFO in his Ridley reaction video that made him look super bad.

Then again, you’d give him more views than he deserves.

Eh, we’ll get some soon dudes. It’s just a matter of time. If they’re running out of items to show, they can only hold the characters off for so long, as they can’t sustain the blog until release without more information. Actually, that might be an interesting tidbit to find out...just to see how much more material they would have to fill in.

I've been wondering how much from 8.8 is still left.

My biggest fear is if we go back to 3 characters a week, and only 1 item per week, they can drag this out for awhile.

 

[NineS]

So. What did I miss during these 20 to 30 pages I've been gone?
I'm assuming nothing as usual.

In that case, what are we talking about?