Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

He's part of the Mario family at this point. The Mario series' representation won't be complete until Waluigi's in.

This is completely how I feel about it. I also feel that way about Toad, TBH. I don't think I'll ever fully be satisfied with Mario Smash representation until both Toad and Waluigi make it in.

 

[amazonevan19]

Seriously who can hate this?

Like just because a character has a certain jokey role in a series, or doesn't appeal to you, doesn't mean their importance can be downplayed. Waluigi is unquestionably one of the most important Mario characters left out of smash, with only Paper Mario really rivalling him for that spot.

For whatever reasons, Sakurai has decided Waluigi doesn't have what it takes to make the cut, but I bet after seeing people's wrath after his deconfirmation, he is going to reconsider. Or maybe the trolls and harassment have convinced him of the opposite

 

[Luigi The President]

It's not cool to say that people like Waluigi because of memes, but it's cool when people on 4chan, resetera and reddit say that people want Shantae because of ****

Sorry i got blinded by my anger and repressions
I think i'll stop posting now

See your post above? It's not about stop posting. It's that you're not opening yourself up to different mindsets.
As I said you're very much projecting. Why are you blaming Smashboards people for what some 4channers are saying about Shantae? Don't just tell me "I was angry forget it"; it's okay to project about this as I get it can be frustrating but you gotta understand why some people dislike Shantae and often counter reasons for her being in alongside just a good debate.

Don't bus other characters because people are bussing yours.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, I'll lay this out here:

Geno, Isaac and Banjo-Kazooie are potentially Ridley 2.0 until further notice, so let's just drop the topic and leave it at that, please.

 

[Deleted member]

I know i'm stepping into dangerous territory, but it's not fair that people say it's okay for Shantae supporters get mocked up across all the internet for liking an indie character, but when someone says something against the popular opinion they get downvoted, insulted or talked down.

We truly do live in a society.

Shantae supporters rise up.

 

[Eru13]

Uh, I'm sure myself and a few others can attest to the opposite.

I couldn't resist xD

 

[Noipoi]

It's not cool to say that people like Waluigi because of memes, but it's cool when people on 4chan, resetera and reddit say that people want Shantae because of porn, all coming from Waluigi, K. Rool, Ridley, Isaac, Skull Kid and Geno supporters

That's not cool either. They shouldn't treat you like that.
But you shouldn't treat people badly because other people treat you badly. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Untouch]

I feel most people are against Waluigi only because they don't want to be lumped in with a "bad fanbase".

 

[KingofKoopas]

Are we really debating Shantae? I mean i think shes in but if anyone is (unironically) saying she cant be cuz of fanservice, Shulk runs around in Boxer Shorts. And Yoshi is a Tax Evading Nudist.

 

[Luigi The President]

Okay, I'll lay this out here:

Geno, Isaac and Banjo-Kazooie are potentially Ridley 2.0 until further notice, so let's just drop the topic and leave it at that, please.

...except this topic hasn't really been upsetting anyone? It's just been nice good speculation and debating to fill the void until the next news.

Are we really debating Shantae? I mean i think shes in but if anyone is (unironically) saying she cant be cuz of fanservice, Shulk runs around in Boxer Shorts. And Yoshi is a Tax Evading Nudist.

Luckily not a single person stated that point, don't see how it's relevant

 

[Diem]

You are saying EVERY single Waluigi supporter out there wants him just for the sake of memes?

Le bias

People who generalize that all Waluigi supporters wanted him just for the meme are wrong, because some people do have a genuine emotional attachment to the character.

But those people are very few in number compared to the droves of people who do indeed just want the character for the meme. How often do you see people making reasoned and well-written arguments for the character's inclusion compared to people just shouting "WAAAAA" or making joke pictures?

Compared to most other characters that people request, who do so because they have a genuine emotional connection to the character for one reason or another, Waluigi is one of the more superfluous. He's not too far from Shrek in that regard.

You'd be surprised how many people throw out Geno because he's not REALLY that wanted or something like that.

Actually you probably wouldn't lol.

Geno's fanbase is a bit more than a vocal minority at this point imo

It's hard to tell who is and isn't a vocal minority these days. As discussions get spread across more and more platforms, getting a pulse on who's really requested is difficult. You've got Twitter and Facebook, Reddit, GameFAQs, SmashBoards, YouTube, and more. And really, people like us who discuss the game online are the vocal minority with regards to the fact that most consumers don't really engage in these discussions online to begin with. That's why character polls are so unreliable, because there's no way you can reach everyone.

Ridley and King K. Rool aren't popular with a broad audience, because they only appeal to the older, core audience who are fans of Metroid and Donkey Kong Country. Relative to the requests of the broader, complete audience, anime characters like Goku would be more popular than Ridley or K. Rool.

The ballot occurring in 2015 when Nintendo and the Wii U were not in the broader public consciousness probably made a huge difference regarding what characters were added. The hardcore audience were the ones paying attention, while most gamers were paying attention to Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Until Dawn, Metal Gear Solid V, etc.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I'm curious, but what made Banjo the poster child for most-desired Rareware character among hardcore Smash fans instead of someone else like Conker? His game was just as significant as Banjo-Kazooie, and he was also included as a playable racer in Diddy Kong Racing.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Spoiler

Well in Boshi's case you CAN generalize because it's pretty much just me and a few people who like the general idea...

Only fair I celebrate 200 posts with something I have genuine trouble articulating.

I'm not gonna make any jokes or snarky remarks on your appreciation for Yoshi, I ultimately find it rather charming how much you like him.

But Boshi just kind of befuddles me. People can be rough on Geno for being a one-time playable character, but Boshi's a one-time side character who's pretty unimportant to SMRPG in the scope of the game's plot. He's a bully that you teach a lesson and he shapes up, he can barely maintain his 'abrasive cool guy' position for the duration of the chapter.

With Echoes in the game I can justify the inclusion of samey characters, but Boshi feels so incredibly minor that I almost can't justify him. I'd prefer Birdo over Boshi just because Birdo is at least super-recognizable and has far more appearances.

I don't mean to be harsh, at the end of the day people want what they want and as I've always said, I'm fine with close to any videogame character making it into Smash. I don't want to boil it down to 'Zinith loves Yoshi and that's why he loves Boshi', so why do you like Boshi so much? I just don't get the appeal when he's such a minor character whose few unique traits are rendered kinda null and void so quickly after meeting him.

 

[Untouch]

I'm curious, but what made Banjo the poster child for most-desired Rareware character among hardcore Smash fans instead of someone else like Conker? His game was just as significant as Banjo-Kazooie, and he was also included as a playable racer in Diddy Kong Racing.

So was Banjo though.
I think people are just more fond for the BK games.
IIRC Conkers BFD kind of flopped because it came out too late.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Seriously who can hate this?

Like just because a character has a certain jokey role in a series, or doesn't appeal to you, doesn't mean their importance can be downplayed. Waluigi is unquestionably one of the most important Mario characters left out of smash, with only Paper Mario really rivalling him for that spot.

For whatever reasons, Sakurai has decided Waluigi doesn't have what it takes to make the cut, but I bet after seeing people's wrath after his deconfirmation, he is going to reconsider. Or maybe the trolls and harassment have convinced him of the opposite

While I think Waluigi would be neat, his exclusion is understandable. He's not one of the main series cast like Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser, Yoshi, even toad. He doesn't have a major role in a main series title with unique moveset potential like Rosalina, he doesn't star in his own spin-off franchises like DK and Wario, and he can't be a clone like Daisy. It makes sense that priority would go to other characters.

 

[amazonevan19]

Only fair I celebrate 200 posts with something I have genuine trouble articulating.

I'm not gonna make any jokes or snarky remarks on your appreciation for Yoshi, I ultimately find it rather charming how much you like him.

But Boshi just kind of befuddles me. People can be rough on Geno for being a one-time playable character, but Boshi's a one-time side character who's pretty unimportant to SMRPG in the scope of the game's plot. He's a bully that you teach a lesson and he shapes up, he can barely maintain his 'abrasive cool guy' position for the duration of the chapter.

With Echoes in the game I can justify the inclusion of samey characters, but Boshi feels so incredibly minor that I almost can't justify him. I'd prefer Birdo over Boshi just because Birdo is at least super-recognizable and has far more appearances.

I don't mean to be harsh, at the end of the day people want what they want and as I've always said, I'm fine with close to any videogame character making it into Smash. I don't want to boil it down to 'Zinith loves Yoshi and that's why he loves Boshi', so why do you like Boshi so much? I just don't get the appeal when he's such a minor character whose few unique traits are rendered kinda null and void so quickly after meeting him.

Preparing my anus for a Zinith essay on the glories of Boshi after this one.

IMHO Boshi should be an alt skin for Yoshi, and Birdo as an echo of Yoshi.

EDIT:

While I think Waluigi would be neat, his exclusion is understandable. He's not one of the main series cast like Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser, Yoshi, even toad. He doesn't have a major role in a main series title with ample moveset potential like Rosalina, he doesn't star in his own spin-off franchises like DK and Wario, and he can't be a clone like Daisy.

Yeah. At first I was incensed that Daisy got in over Waluigi, but after the concept of echoes was explained, and we saw more of how echoes function, I really get why. Waluigi can't echo anyone and since he has no main game series appearance, it's harder to envision a moveset.

There is actually a Waluigi copypasta about how he's a reflection of a reflection - Luigi is a reflection of Mario, and Waluigi is a reflection of Luigi. Though the copypasta is humorous in nature it makes a serious point - Waluigi has a really tough time because he can't rely on his own merits as a character. He only derives his value/existence really from being a corruption of a reflection of the star of the show.

Having said that, I hope Sakurai considers Waluigi, Toad, and Paper Mario for Smash 6. They're the only real Mario characters I feel are 100% deserving and left out.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I feel Sakurai won't have a problem getting Geno this time around.

Square Enix seems to have let Sakurai have any Final Fantasy character, he just chose Cloud, and they let him have Geno's name and likeness, he just put him as a Mii Costume as, I assume, he saw all the ballot requests (he mentioned Geno being one to get a lot of requests when it comes to older characters) but felt it was right to get one of Square's big names first and he was nearing the end of the planned DLC period anyway. Another character would push DLC into another year, and he was planning Ultimate by the end of 2015 anyway.

 

[lightdrago]

...but guys...

Waluigi is in the game.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm curious, but what made Banjo the poster child for most-desired Rareware character among hardcore Smash fans instead of someone else like Conker? His game was just as significant as Banjo-Kazooie, and he was also included as a playable racer in Diddy Kong Racing.

I think his notoriety as an M rated icon kinda holds him back for something like Smash Bros

 

[Luigi The President]

While I think Waluigi would be neat, his exclusion is understandable. He's not one of the main series cast like Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser, Yoshi, even toad. He doesn't have a major role in a main series title with ample moveset potential like Rosalina, he doesn't star in his own spin-off franchises like DK and Wario, and he can't be a clone like Daisy. It makes sense that priority would go to other characters.

The thing is with the roster Ultimate has there are so few characters we can genuinely claim have priority.
All but a few of true "Nintendo all-stars" are in the game.
Waluigi genuinely has good reason to be up there with next games first party frontrunners.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

...except this topic hasn't really been upsetting anyone? It's just been nice good speculation and debating to fill the void until the next news.


Luckily not a single person stated that point, don't see how it's relevant

Ah, ok then.

Since I'm trying to spend time away from here, any potentially interesting rumors pop up lately before the rumored Direct killswitch on Wednesday?

I think his notoriety as an M rated icon kinda holds him back for something like Smash Bros

Something tells me that's only half the issue.

Granted, BFD has a lot of controversial stuff, but that's easy to slide by. The problem is Conker has less of a game legacy compared to Banjo. Apart from BFD and its remake, he has a forgettable GBC game and a glorified Project Spark campaign.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ah, ok then.

Since I'm trying to spend time away from here, any potentially interesting rumors pop up lately before the rumored Direct killswitch on Wednesday?

What rumored Direct on Wednesday?

 

[Luigi The President]

Ah, ok then.

Since I'm trying to spend time away from here, any potentially interesting rumors pop up lately before the rumored Direct killswitch on Wednesday?

Ah, nothing really concerning. Haven't heard about this supposed killswitch. Leakypandy claimed there was "movement" this week but I wouldn't trust them.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I think his notoriety as an M rated icon kinda holds him back for something like Smash Bros

Well to be fair, Bayo and Snake... Besides even with the M rating it was just for Naughty Words and innuendo.. And Potty Jokes.. And some cartoon violence that doesnt even get you a T nowadays.

 

[Zinith]

Only fair I celebrate 200 posts with something I have genuine trouble articulating.

I'm not gonna make any jokes or snarky remarks on your appreciation for Yoshi, I ultimately find it rather charming how much you like him.

But Boshi just kind of befuddles me. People can be rough on Geno for being a one-time playable character, but Boshi's a one-time side character who's pretty unimportant to SMRPG in the scope of the game's plot. He's a bully that you teach a lesson and he shapes up, he can barely maintain his 'abrasive cool guy' position for the duration of the chapter.

With Echoes in the game I can justify the inclusion of samey characters, but Boshi feels so incredibly minor that I almost can't justify him. I'd prefer Birdo over Boshi just because Birdo is at least super-recognizable and has far more appearances.

I don't mean to be harsh, at the end of the day people want what they want and as I've always said, I'm fine with close to any videogame character making it into Smash. I don't want to boil it down to 'Zinith loves Yoshi and that's why he loves Boshi', so why do you like Boshi so much? I just don't get the appeal when he's such a minor character whose few unique traits are rendered kinda null and void so quickly after meeting him.

Actually his change of attitude is part of the reason WHY I want him. Boshi has the most potential of any character in SMRPG (Geno included) to develop outside of the game, but it was wasted. His personality is reliant on Yoshi, but Yoshi changed over the past 22 years which inadvertently means Boshi has as well. Also Boshi was basically the first member of a "Mario species" to be given a distinct look that would be carried over to the other Mario RPGs and even the main titles (Toadette for example). If you go through SMRPG, you'll notice that every OC is either 1) not a part of an existing Mario species or 2) not distinct enough. Boshi is the exception.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Actually, I take back what i said about being indifferent to Master Chief before. I think he'd be a great choice for a third party rep even if his franchise's relationship to Nintendo is virtually non-existent. In fact, I'd say he's my second-most wanted third party character now, only behind Sora.

 

[Deleted member]

The thing is with the roster Ultimate has there are so few characters we can genuinely claim have priority.
All but a few of true "Nintendo all-stars" are in the game.
Waluigi genuinely has good reason to be up there with next games first party frontrunners.

That, and I really disagree about not having any moveset potential. Waluigi could represent the dozens of Mario spin-offs he's featured in. Mario Party, any of the sports games, Kart, you name it, Waluigi could have a move based on it. A lot of the mods made for him back in the Brawl days never really did him much justice, IMO.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'm one of those who genuinely wanted Waluigi. However, I admit it's not for any gameplay reason--with Mario, Luigi, Wario... it feels like someone's missing, and he'd be great at representing the spin-offs. I feel like if there were a next Mario character to bring in, it would be him and Toad.

I'm curious, but what made Banjo the poster child for most-desired Rareware character among hardcore Smash fans instead of someone else like Conker? His game was just as significant as Banjo-Kazooie, and he was also included as a playable racer in Diddy Kong Racing.

Banjo & Kazooie had a big franchise, with both N64 games being critical and financial successes, and back in the Melee days people wanted Banjo & Kazooie and James Bond from Rare. They have a moveset built for Smash, where the games are all about learning new moves, and there's so much to choose from--essentially being a two in one fighter with flight and projectiles. Conker's game is based more on contextual stuff, so it's not as easy of a transition (though I think is surely possible). And there was a hope for a Banjo-Threeie that never came, and Microsoft/Rare has treated their property fairly poorly. Microsoft's at least trying to use Conker, but failing at that as well. Sakurai would treat both characters with a lot more care and reverence than they'll ever get at Microsoft. I'd love them both, but if I had to pick, it would be Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[Cosmic77]

Only fair I celebrate 200 posts with something I have genuine trouble articulating.

I'm not gonna make any jokes or snarky remarks on your appreciation for Yoshi, I ultimately find it rather charming how much you like him.

But Boshi just kind of befuddles me. People can be rough on Geno for being a one-time playable character, but Boshi's a one-time side character who's pretty unimportant to SMRPG in the scope of the game's plot. He's a bully that you teach a lesson and he shapes up, he can barely maintain his 'abrasive cool guy' position for the duration of the chapter.

With Echoes in the game I can justify the inclusion of samey characters, but Boshi feels so incredibly minor that I almost can't justify him. I'd prefer Birdo over Boshi just because Birdo is at least super-recognizable and has far more appearances.

I don't mean to be harsh, at the end of the day people want what they want and as I've always said, I'm fine with close to any videogame character making it into Smash. I don't want to boil it down to 'Zinith loves Yoshi and that's why he loves Boshi', so why do you like Boshi so much? I just don't get the appeal when he's such a minor character whose few unique traits are rendered kinda null and void so quickly after meeting him.

I can't spreak for Zinith, but everyone has a different definition of what "memorable" is.

Personally, I think Mallow was far more memorable than Geno due to his character development and Luigi-ish personality, but that's not the general consensus among SMRPG fans. I just view the characters differently than others; simple as that.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Well to be fair, Bayo and Snake... Besides even with the M rating it was just for Naughty Words and innuendo.. And Potty Jokes.. And some cartoon violence that doesnt even get you a T nowadays.

Yeah, but unlike Snake and Bayonetta, It'd be hard to make Conker feel like Conker without upping the rating...
The main thing that set Conker's Bad Fur Day apart form all of the other 3D platformers is the crass adult humor, and taking that away, kinda ruins what Conker as a character represents...
The less I say about Young Conker, the better,

 

[Peeton]

Bearded Isaac could beat out RD ike for hottest character in the game, Why anyone would want kid isaac is beyond me.

I would LOVE dad Isaac! The only reason I don’t really like kid Isaac is because of his hair. It’s just kinda weird to me. Plus I tend to be partial to adult characters anyways. But I do kinda want kid Isaac just so we might get a Mathew or Felix echo!

 

[Dcas]

If we get a Direct in November.
At this rate the only time we'll get new info is when the game drops.

I giggled. Imagine not getting a direct and leaving everything that is missing as a surprise for us to discover on release day.

Imagine the cluster****.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm one of those who genuinely wanted Waluigi. However, I admit it's not for any gameplay reason--with Mario, Luigi, Wario... it feels like someone's missing, and he'd be great at representing the spin-offs. I feel like if there were a next Mario character to bring in, it would be him and Toad.



Banjo & Kazooie had a big franchise, with both N64 games being critical and financial successes, and back in the Melee days people wanted Banjo & Kazooie and James Bond from Rare. They have a moveset built for Smash, where the games are all about learning new moves, and there's so much to choose from--essentially being a two in one fighter with flight and projectiles. Conker's game is based more on contextual stuff, so it's not as easy of a transition (though I think is surely possible). And there was a hope for a Banjo-Threeie that never came, and Microsoft/Rare has treated their property fairly poorly. Microsoft's at least trying to use Conker, but failing at that as well. Sakurai would treat both characters with a lot more care and reverence than they'll ever get at Microsoft. I'd love them both, but if I had to pick, it would be Banjo & Kazooie.

Well said, sir.

Although I can't help but think even Plum would get in over Waluigi, at this rate. Not that I would mind at all.

What rumored Direct on Wednesday?

There was a site/account that counted down towards this Wednesday. But I'm more interested in that "24" leak anyway.

I giggled. Imagine not getting a direct and leaving everything that is missing as a surprise for us to discover the release date.

Imagine the cluster****.

Meanwhile, would be the absolute last post on the blog, to add insult to injury.

 

[Peeton]

I might sound absolutely crazy, but I’d kinda want Steve and Master Cheif in Smash! They both would be so funny to me! I know I’d have fun with them both!

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

While I think Waluigi would be neat, his exclusion is understandable. He's not one of the main series cast like Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser, Yoshi, even toad. He doesn't have a major role in a main series title with unique moveset potential like Rosalina, he doesn't star in his own spin-off franchises like DK and Wario, and he can't be a clone like Daisy. It makes sense that priority would go to other characters.

I agree with this but at the same time..while Waluigi isn't a character I personally clamor for. You can't deny he IS a Nintendo "All-Star" and deserves to be added eventually. Yes he hasn't had a main role. But people downplay the Mario spin-offs a little too much when games like Mario Party, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis outsell a LOT of franchises represented in Smash. Memes or not Waluigi is a very recognizable character. Ask a soccer mom on the street who Corrin is? Bet she couldn't tell you. Ask her who Waluigi is, I bet she would know. Like you said Waluigi's biggest hurdle wasn't the character himself but development priorities. Let's be honest here, during the ballot I RARELY saw Waluigi on fan polls or talked about to the nearest extent he is now. If his fans wanted him so badly maybe they should've thrown a bunch more votes his way in the ballot. We might be speaking a different tune right now...

 

[Luigi The President]

I might sound absolutely crazy, but I’d kinda want Steve and Master Cheif in Smash! They both would be so funny to me! I know I’d have fun with them both!

Hell, I want Steve, Master Chief, AND Banjo-Kazooie. All three. Bring it ON.

I agree with this but at the same time..while Waluigi isn't a character I personally clamor for. You can't deny he IS a Nintendo "All-Star" and deserves to be added eventually. Yes he hasn't had a main role. But people downplay the Mario spin-offs a little too much when games like Mario Party, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis outsell a LOT of franchises represented in Smash. Memes or not Waluigi is a very recognizable character. Ask a soccer mom on the street who Corrin is? Bet she couldn't tell you. Ask her who Waluigi is, I bet she would know. Like you said Waluigi's biggest hurdle wasn't the character himself but development priorities. Let's be honest here, during the ballot I RARELY saw Waluigi on fan polls or talked about to the nearest extent he is now. If his fans wanted him so badly maybe they should've thrown a bunch more votes his way in the ballot. We might be speaking a different tune right now...

I rarely saw Ridley in any actual Ballot poll.
After numerous games of "assist trophying" or "stage hazard" fans understandably lose hope. Ridley had far more propelling him. Waluigi did not.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well said, sir.

Although I can't help but think even Plum would get in over Waluigi, at this rate. Not that I would mind at all.



There was a site/account that counted down towards this Wednesday. But I'm more interested in that "24" leak anyway.



Meanwhile, would be the absolute last post on the blog, to add insult to injury.

24 leak?

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine the cluster****.

It would be made even worse by the fact that if this happens, Isabelle is our final newcomer. Let the salt flow.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I might sound absolutely crazy, but I’d kinda want Steve and Master Cheif in Smash! They both would be so funny to me! I know I’d have fun with them both!

Hey, You're not alone. Master Chief and Steve are my two most wanted Microsoft reps and some of my most wanted characters in general. Also:
Mario: 1981
Sonic: 1991
Halo: 2001
Minecraft: 2011

It makes too much sense

 

[FirestormNeos]

Jim Sterling's take on Waluigi on Smash is the best take and I will not hear otherwise.

Most people who believe in the box, actually don't want it to come true.

Would I be cruel for saying that if Box Theory was true-- the number of characters, not the characters themselves --I'd still be quite hyped for the game?