Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KingofKoopas]

You know what i just found out, which is kind of sad cuz i sometimes check this site in case there was a leigitmate leak.. People on SmashWiki still think Loz was a legitimate leaker with real information. And that Vergeben is a deluded nutbag troll who got lucky. Its like entering the upside-down i tell ya.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Applying "objectively" to a subjective statement. That is why I disagree.

The concept that Melee is objectively better due to its controller complexity and faster gameplay is what pushes away people who don't like Melee. (That and a usually pompous attitude that oozes from Melee-only purists, but that's a whole different discussion.) One cannot apply objective arguments to a subjective debate. Melee also has downfalls, such as an extremely limited number of players who win major tournaments, an extremely limited number of viable top 8 characters, age, and a much higher skill curve than what is acceptable for many players who prefer Smash 4. THis is why it cannot objectively be a better competitive game; all of these assessments are subjective.

It's like how I prefer to watch American football-- it's complex, it has gaps in the gameplay to digest and talk, it has a structured, easy to plan for schedule, every score is a significant moment-- but there are many in my area who prefer basketball-- fairly simple game, quicker games, much more scoring, fewer breaks, etc. Neither is objectively a better game than the other. Football meets my preferences. Basketball meets my friends'. They're both competitive games worth playing and watching, and arguing which one is better is a stupid argument to have.

While I agree that saying Melee is objectively a better game is just spouting opinion as fact, I hold a problem with the Football analogy as it would suggest comparisons between Ultimate and Melee shouldn't be made because they're different games. Despite this, competitive games of the same series are constantly compared to another because such discussions can seriously effect the future entries to the series. These aren't two separate sports, they're direclty related. Smash 4 would have never received the competitive elements such as For Glory if it weren't for the competitive side of the Smash community that prospered playing Melee and Project M despite complete lack of competitive support.

Which game is better competitively is subjective, but objective things can be said. One is slower, one is harder, one has better character diversity, one has a more free form combo system, one is more accessible

These aren't aspects which exist in a bubble to one another the way elements of basketball and football do, depending on what the community complains about or demands for, these elements will change going into the future. Wavedashing and whether or not it should make a return itself is a hotly contested issue.

 

[Noipoi]

In case it wasn't obvious, I'm kidding. I'm sure all of you will find that special someone eventually if you haven't already.

Thanks for the nice sentiment, but i've already resigned myself to the fact that i'm a nerd of the highest calibur and no Woman in her right mind would waste her time with me.
It sounds really sad, but it doesn't bother me because i've already shed all my tears .

 

[LoboRundas]

Which Smash characters does your gf choose?

Hmm we never play much Smash, no time and we live a bit far away, we'll see with Ultimate and all its characters!

 

[ThreeT]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

 

[PsySmasher]

You know what i just found out, which is kind of sad cuz i sometimes check this site in case there was a leigitmate leak.. People on SmashWiki still think Loz was a legitimate leaker with real information. And that Vergeben is a deluded nutbag troll who got lucky. Its like entering the upside-down i tell ya.

The main (and pretty much only) reason that Loz gained notoriety was that he somehow found out about the contents of the E3 Smash info a few days before and leaked it online.

 

[BlondeLombax]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

One quarter would be laughing their hides off, one quarter would be cursing him and sending him death threats, one quarter would be rubbing it in the faces of those who believed him, and one quarter wouldn't give a flying peck. It's all based on how people feel towards these situations.

 

[Noipoi]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

Pretty upset actually. Incineroar is one of my most wanted characters but I never brought it up because back then Decidueye was the obvious choice.
When verg came out with Incineroar it gave me and a lot of others hope, i'd hate to see that hope destroyed.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

I'd be a little bummed as Incineroar is one of my most anticipated fighters.

 

[beans]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

Happy
It would be fun if the few things that seem to be true get deconfirmed hard, and everyone gets back to clueless speculation

 

[Opossum]

They've stated that Simon also kinda echoes Richter, since Simon's moveset also has some attacks derived from Richter himself. They've even said "it's hard to tell who's echoing who". I do have a feeling though that Richter's final smash will be Hydro Storm. If Chrom got a stylized Critical Hit and Dark Pit having the staff, I assume, I expect no less for Richter to have Hydro Storm, instead of Grand Cross.

Chrom's Final Smash isn't Critical Hit though.

 

[AugustusB]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

I would laugh at first, but then feel bad for the Incineroar fans (I really started to like their inclusion).

 

[Idon]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

I'd feel like

And bask in all the chaos.

Aint nobody gonna know what to do.

 

[Androobie]

Which Smash characters does your gf choose?

I don’t have a GF, but I do have a BF.

He doesn’t play Smash Bros that much anymore, but he’d mostly likely either main Pit because he’s an angel or Mario because he’s a very straightforward kind of guy.

 

[Kuon]

Not really. First of all, being good at the game is not directly correlated to learning something like wavedashing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXvKpe5MP0s Secondly, wavedashing is not hard; it's just something that takes some practice, and, if you're not even willing to put in that practice, then you should find something else that you actually care enough about to put time and practice into.

Edit; In case you don't feel like watching that video, I'll give you the run-down. Being good at super smash bros is about learning and adapting.

But being good at Smash Bros can be different depending on the person. A casual gamer can be good as Smash Bros by winning For Fun matches, or by beating the single player on the hardest difficulty, or by winning a team battle against seven level-nine CPUs who are all on one team. But being good at the game doesn't automatically mean being competitively good.

 

[PsySmasher]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

I'd feel bad for Incineroar fans. But I would be completely fine with that, since I don't really like Incineroar all that much.

 

[KingofKoopas]

The main (and pretty much only) reason that Loz gained notoriety was that he somehow found out about the contents of the E3 Smash info a few days before and leaked it online.

I thought it came out he pulled it all out of his...... face. Family forum. NO cursing.

 

[Zinith]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

Say "Well that's that" and move on...

 

[_Fresh_]

Which Smash characters does your gf choose?

My girlfriend doesn't play with me because I'm "too good." I play with our friends when they come over. It's a bloodbath.

 

[Iridium]

All this talk about competitive vs. casual Smash has reminded me of ZeRo vs. SonicFox 3 months after Ultimate releases. Any new bets?

 

[PsySmasher]

I thought it came out he pulled it all out of his...... face. Family forum. NO cursing.

Here's the link to the leak if your interested: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76696436

 

[SonicMario]

While I agree that saying Melee is objectively a better game is just spouting opinion as fact, I hold a problem with the Football analogy as it would suggest comparisons between Ultimate and Melee shouldn't be made because they're different games. Despite this, competitive games of the same series are constantly compared to another because such discussions can seriously effect the future entries to the series. These aren't two separate sports, they're direclty related. Smash 4 would have never received the competitive elements such as For Glory if it weren't for the competitive side of the Smash community that prospered playing Melee and Project M despite complete lack of competitive support.

Which game is better competitively is subjective, but objective things can be said. One is slower, one is harder, one has better character diversity, one has a more free form combo system, one is more accessible

These aren't aspects which exist in a bubble to one another the way elements of basketball and football do, depending on what the community complains about or demands for, these elements will change going into the future. Wavedashing and whether or not it should make a return itself is a hotly contested issue.

The better sports analogy might be saying whether you prefer to watch (In american football BTW) College Football or the NFL. Both effectively the same sport, but they do vary in some significant areas here and there because some of the basic rules are changed (Ex: You only need one foot down near the sidelines to advance or score a touchdown after a catch, NFL requires the much harder to perform two feet on the ground) or harder to perform.

I don't know which game is closer to which league though. Could make the argument College football is more like Smash 4 with alot more competitors and accessible since it's mainly actual students across the nation becoming players while you generally have to a good amount of skill in order to make the NFL. At the same time though College Football in it's playoffs tend to be the same teams every year lately with Alabama and Clemson. And while the NFL has powerhouses like the Patriots, the playoff picture is often very different from the year before. There's more parity in the NFL compared to College.

 

[BlondeLombax]

So here's a question I'm asking due to seeing signatures; why do people seem convinced that Captain Toad is deconfirmed? He's only a background character for New Donk, isn't he? And other characters have appeared in the background while also proving playable in the past, like Dedede and Toon Link. It doesn't seem like a viable excuse to let one dream die.

 

[monadoboy]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

Very good. Verg killed any and all hype for newcomers I had a while ago

 

[Kuon]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

I'd be fine with it, because I don't really want any new Pokémon reps. I want more human characters. Plus, if the music theory is true, that may mean that we could get more than just two or three more characters

 

[SuperSceptile15]

This is slightly off-topic, but I've always wondered why the Angry Video Game Nerd has never done an episode on the Super Smash Bros. series. It's pretty much the ultimate Nintendo/video game crossover franchise, so you'd think he would love to talk about it.

 

[Kuon]

All this talk about competitive vs. casual Smash has reminded me of ZeRo vs. SonicFox 3 months after Ultimate releases. Any new bets?

My bet is that I'm not gonna pay any attention to the competitive scene lol. I've heard about Zero recently, but I don't think I've heard of this SonicFox guy

 

[Noipoi]

So here's a question I'm asking due to seeing signatures; why do people seem convinced that Captain Toad is deconfirmed? He's only a background character for New Donk, isn't he? And other characters have appeared in the background while also proving playable in the past, like Dedede and Toon Link. It doesn't seem like a viable excuse to let one dream die.

Yeah, but why would they show a newcomer in the background of a stage? Wouldn't you want him to be a surprise?
That's my logic, at least.

 

[Idon]

My bet is that I'm not gonna pay any attention to the competitive scene lol. I've heard about Zero recently, but I don't think I've heard of this SonicFox guy

Best Dragonball FighterZ player in the world.

Also public bisexual furry.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

"Shrug"

I wouldn't really care, besides feeling bad for Incineroar fans. I have many of my most wanted newcomers already and I don't see DLC not happening at some point, so I can hold out more hope for other characters then. I don't really believe in slots, so all yet unrevealed newcomers on the base game who aren't on my most wanted list will still be a bonus to me.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This is very unlikely, but how would people feel if Vergeben got Incineroar wrong and the Music Theory was actually true?

I'd be perfectly fine with it, since Incineroar's a lower-priority wish of mine.

And a bit smug that faker Virgil got proven wrong again.

This is slightly off-topic, but I've always wondered why the Angry Video Game Nerd has never done an episode on the Super Smash Bros. series. It's pretty much the ultimate Nintendo/video game crossover franchise, so you'd think he would love to talk about it.

Thing is, James Rolfe is a movie buff first, and game buff fourth or fifth. Besides, it feels like he picks out random game names out of a hat for what to do episodes on, nowadays.

Yeah, but why would they show a newcomer in the background of a stage? Wouldn't you want him to be a surprise?
That's my logic, at least.

This is why I don't expect him until a sequel. While Sakurai is more than capable of upgrading background characters, he seems more to wait until people have gotten accustomed to them first.

Which is why I think Ms. Pac-Man might actually have more of a chance, since Pac-Land appeared more than once.

 

[Iridium]

My bet is that I'm not gonna pay any attention to the competitive scene lol. I've heard about Zero recently, but I don't think I've heard of this SonicFox guy

SonicFox is one of the better DBFZ players in the world, assuming you have seen some tourneys. I would say he really started this, but he probably won't take it so easily. He even attended a Smash 4 local recently, but didn't fare well, for obvious reasons.

Anyway, it's going to be something good.

 

[Noipoi]

"Shrug"

I wouldn't really care, besides feeling bad for Incineroar fans. I have many of my most wanted newcomers already and I don't see DLC not happening at some point, so I can hold out more hope for other characters then. I don't really believe in slots, so all yet unrevealed newcomers on the base game who aren't on my most wanted list will still be a bonus to me.

Spoiler

Nice ghoul School avatar

 

[PsySmasher]

My bet is that I'm not gonna pay any attention to the competitive scene lol. I've heard about Zero recently, but I don't think I've heard of this SonicFox guy

SonicFox is currently one of the best players in Dragon Ball Fighterz. After he and Zero had a heated exchange on Twitter, they agreed to face off in Ultimate 3 months after release.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Tripping in Brawl was more fun then dancing like Foot Loose in Melee.

 

[WaddleMatt]

You know people are dying in this drought when I have seen people say 'Do you think we will get information tomorrow?' Every day for a week straight.

 

[Androobie]

Yeah, but why would they show a newcomer in the background of a stage? Wouldn't you want him to be a surprise?
That's my logic, at least.

But wouldn’t it be an even bigger surprise if they showed him earlier just to draw suspicion away from him? They probably wouldn’t do it, but it’s just a thought.

 

[Zinith]

This is slightly off-topic, but I've always wondered why the Angry Video Game Nerd has never done an episode on the Super Smash Bros. series. It's pretty much the ultimate Nintendo/video game crossover franchise, so you'd think he would love to talk about it.

Mike is more of the game buff rather than James. Yes, he did an episode on Smash before...

 

[Meritocracy]

There are basically two types of people in the SSB community (not including say, smash 64 and PM players):

Melee players, and everyone else, who will just always play whatever game is the newest. Why is this? From where I stand, I see it like this. Those who stick to melee do it for one reason; it's a superior game. This is not to say that, for example, smash 4 or even brawl are bad games, it's just that, objectively, melee is better competitively.

The reason to play smash 4 is.... Well, personally I don't know. I got into competitive melee only last spring, and I mean spring of 2018. I'm kidding, though, I think I see the reason to play smash 4, and ultimate when it comes out. It's just more fun for every reason that isn't seen from a competitive point of veiw. Brawl had a FAR better one player mode than melee, so, if you don't really play smash for the sake of competition, then you had every reason to play Brawl, a game considered to be inferior.

Anyway, reply if you disagree, and please, say why.

*loud hmmmmmmm* I disagree about Melee being the better competitive game, Melee was a good competing game because when something negative was found they eventually got around to making a decision about it. However, when something negative is discovered in 4, we sit around and twiddle out thumbs while waiting for someone to fix it for us, except when everyone is waiting for so one else to do it, it dosen't get done. TL,DR Melee is better 'cause of it's community, not the game itself

 

[Noipoi]

But wouldn’t it be an even bigger surprise if they showed him earlier just to draw suspicion away from him? They probably wouldn’t do it, but it’s just a thought.

I suppose, I just don't think they'd do that.