Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jigglymaster]

How shadow nearly killed the franchise? I thought sonic 06 was the game that nearly killed the franchise. And sonic at one point died in that game lol

While Sonic Adventure 2 was a hit game, Shadow shoulda been a one time deal and stayed dead after he died at the end. Instead they shoehorned him back into Sonic Heroes and then gave him the travesty that was Shadow the Hedgehog. That's kinda the point where the Sonic franchise went from being cool to cringey. Then, realizing they kinda screwed up, Sega wanted to reboot the franchise again with Sonic 06... which failed even further. So while Sonic 06 is a huge factor in the series almost dying, that pretty much wouldn't have happened had it not been for Shadow anyways. He kinda messed things up a lot.

Now we're in an era where they're too afraid to do anything besides playable Sonic anymore. Even though Tails has done literally nothing wrong and instead has been written time and time again to be a completely useless character.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Since it's fitness week, do you folks figure it may finally be 's turn to get a post next?

Honestly, I just wish we had some more gameplay of K. Rool, Simon, and Isabelle. Seeing people be able to go hands on with them would be great, as seeing all the cool things people are doing with Inkling in the demo is making me that much more excited to try them out come launch.

I'll have to see if EB Games still gets some GC converters, by the time the game is out.

While Sonic Adventure 2 was a hit game, Shadow shoulda been a one time deal and stayed dead after he died at the end. Instead they shoehorned him back into Sonic Heroes and then gave him the travesty that was Shadow the Hedgehog. That's kinda the point where the Sonic franchise went from being cool to cringey. Then, realizing they kinda screwed up, Sega wanted to reboot the franchise again with Sonic 06... which failed even further. So while Sonic 06 is a huge factor in the series almost dying, that pretty much wouldn't have happened had it not been for Shadow anyways. He kinda messed things up a lot.

Now we're in an era where they're too afraid to do anything besides playable Sonic anymore. Even though Tails has done literally nothing wrong and instead has been written time and time again to be a completely useless character.

At least we're getting a racing spin-off next year, that should theoretically give enough time to cool off and figure out what to do in the meantime.

 

[osby]

The history of Tails and Shadow is like you getting a car, and then your little brother comes along and then wrecks your car. Somehow he's the one who your parents buy a new car for while you are forgotten about and never given another one.

There can be a bit of a grudge when the once famous sidekick gets kicked to the curb by a character that nearly killed the franchise at one point.

Isn't this a bit dramatic? Tails isn't kicked anywhere, he appeared in all mainline Sonic games since 2006, something I can't say about Shadow, Amy or any character except the titular protagonist.

Also killing the franchise? Worst Sonic game was Sonic 2006 and Shadow was great in that game. I think people should stop blaming him for the faults of the franchise.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

What photo is that?

Spoiler: Spoiler Because it's Probably Real

A photo of Ken. Don't have the link to it but search Ken photo leak on YouTube and you'll see tons about it. Source Gaming is a good source.

It has yet to be disproven and probably won't be. Also he's heavily speculated and rumored thanks to people like Vergeben so it's very likely real.

Fingers crossed that FS meter is legal too or there's at least some sub rules that allow it if just because I like final smashes and think it'd be fun.

I am so nervous about the FS meter. Sakurai keeps talking about it being very casual which leads me to thinking you can get a FS every 30 seconds or less.

What would be ideal is an option to toggle how much the meter needs to charge. Even an option like Short (every 20-30 seconds) Average (1-2 mins) or Long (3+ minutes) would be appreciated.

Since it's fitness week, do you folks figure it may finally be 's turn to get a post next?

Just to clarify it isn't Fitness Week (unless you were joking). It was Health & Sports day yesterday in Japan, but people are speculating we might continue the trend of healthy & sports related posts this week because of Dr. Mario. It all balances on what our music update is tonight.

But yes I think Little Mac would fit if there is indeed a theme.

 

[Fenriraga]

Gee, I wonder why...

Quickly Tougon, reach into my pocket and pull out my Bat-Copyright Protection Spray!

 

[Deleted member]

Since it's fitness week, do you folks figure it may finally be 's turn to get a post next?

I think it would be rather ironic if Wario was covered this week, though that can't happen as he's already been covered on the blog.

 

[CosmicQuark]

almost every single tweet that NOA does "whens the smash direct?" or " This isn't smash direct." LOL I wonder how Nintendo employees or whoever reads all these tweets over there feels. LOL I wonder if people call Nintendo to say Hey whens the next smash direct? LOL

I'm pretty sure Nintendo HQ has an algorithm that predicts when our impatient asses will cause a ruckus, so it's only more data to feed into the algorithm.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I am so nervous about the FS meter. Sakurai keeps talking about it being very casual which leads me to thinking you can get a FS every 30 seconds or less.

What would be ideal is an option to toggle how much the meter needs to charge. Even an option like Short (every 20-30 seconds) Average (1-2 mins) or Long (3+ minutes) would be appreciated.

The thing I'm concerned about is Cloud and Mac already having super meters. If the FS meter is not meant to be used competitively, you know they're gonna be allowed to use two super moves in a row.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Isn't this a bit dramatic? Tails isn't kicked anywhere, he appeared in all mainline Sonic games since 2006, something I can't say about Shadow, Amy or any character except the titular protagonist.

Also killing the franchise? Worst Sonic game was Sonic 2006 and Shadow was great in that game. I think people should stop blaming him for the faults of the franchise.

Oh he's appeared alright. It's just for a sidekick character, it's kinda amazing he hasn't really been playable modern Sonic game SINCE Sonic 06. Not to mention they completely ruined his character in Sonic Forces.

I'll say it again, Shadow was shoehorned after his death in SA2 by being put in Heroes and then Shadow the Hedgehog, which turned the series from "cool" to "cringe" and I'm pretty sure is what caused the Sonic 06 reboot in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

How shadow nearly killed the franchise? I thought sonic 06 was the game that nearly killed the franchise. And sonic at one point died in that game lol

Well, depending on who you ask, some would say Sonic died after the Dreamcast. In my personal opinion, I like...some of the post Dreamcast Sonic games. Heroes is okay, Unleashed was meh (granted, I played the Wii version), Colors is my personal favorite in the series, and Generations was pretty cool but was a tad too short for my tastes. Then came Lost World, and uh...it's not the worst thing ever? I think the nicest thing I can say about that one is that it felt kind of like if Mario Galaxy was really mediocre and had wonky parkour and camera mechanics. Forces...I decline to comment on. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all, right?

almost every single tweet that NOA does "whens the smash direct?" or " This isn't smash direct." LOL I wonder how Nintendo employees or whoever reads all these tweets over there feels. LOL I wonder if people call Nintendo to say Hey whens the next smash direct? LOL

"Nintendo Customer Support, how can I help you?"

"Can I get a uhhhhhhh heckin' Smash Direct."

 

[SonicMario]

Shadow getting hate because his titular game is really annoying. You don't really see people hating on Samus because of Other M, do you?

There is kind of a different case between Shadow for his spin-off game and Samus happening to have the Other M design for the armor though. Metroid getting so much Other M references (Even the duckbill clone Ridley design) was definitely annoying for some Metroid fans but kind of understandable when you consider it was the most recent Metroid game at the time. And it was first party. Even if it wasn't quite recieved well by the Metroid fanbase, it was still a game Nintendo kinda had some degree of obligation to represent.

Shadow's very own game is of course 3rd party and it's a game that Sega as well as a good majority of the Sonic fanbase just isn't proud of, that is by now a little over a decade old. The direction both that game and 06 went really affected Sonic for a while and there's really been no real way to dig out of the hole (in terms of franchise reputation) completely. And probably never will regardless of recent successes like Colors, Generations, and Mania. Sonic Forces is the first game in a while to bring back some of the "edge" and/or more darker story elements and that didn't exactly pan out very well either.

It doesn't help that Sonic Adventure 2, as much as I disagree with it all, have had a backlash to it this decade where some are now saying even Shadow's debut was in a terrible game. SA2's my favorite Sonic game still, so it always hurts to see comments like that.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Just to clarify it isn't Fitness Week (unless you were joking). It was Health & Sports day yesterday in Japan, but people are speculating we might continue the trend of healthy & sports related posts this week because of Dr. Mario. It all balances on what our music update is tonight.

But yes I think Little Mac would fit if there is indeed a theme.

Well, a music and character post seems possible. Not necessarily related to each other.

I was just thinking that because of this pic here.

https://www.deviantart.com/flintofmother3/art/Inktober-09-Sports-767589740

>in before "fitness isn't a sport!"

 

[osby]

Oh he's appeared alright. It's just for a sidekick character, it's kinda amazing he hasn't really been playable modern Sonic game SINCE Sonic 06. Not to mention they completely ruined his character in Sonic Forces.

I'll say it again, Shadow was shoehorned after his death in SA2 by being put in Heroes and then Shadow the Hedgehog, which turned the series from "cool" to "cringe" and I'm pretty sure is what caused the Sonic 06 reboot in the first place.

He's playable in Sonic Mania.

 

[Jigglymaster]

He's playable in Sonic Mania.

"it's kinda amazing he hasn't really been playable modern Sonic game SINCE Sonic 06."

Sonic Mania is a Classic franchise game. I would like to play Tails in a 3D spaced environment not with sprites thank you.

 

[RandomAce]

Spoiler: Spoilered just in case

There was a thread on Gamefaqs by someone looking to commit account suicide. It was called Ganondorf is in Brawl.

What it actually was, was a video link of a person (Presumably a WW2 soldier) getting gruesomely decapitated, slowly with a knife, in ridiculous detail.The thread was deleted in minutes, but it was enough to horrify everyone for a while afterwards. The guy's channel was promptly nuked, and it's rumored the FBI even got involved (this is unconfirmed)

Spoiler

Feel bad for the WW2 soldier. He probably wanted to help support his family, only to get killed in the most vicious way possible.

Humans, so lifeless sometimes.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Overall, echoes do tend to have the same stats. But it's usually minor seemingly insignificant differences-- Such as Lucina's moves having the same damage output regardless of range, and Marth's tip-- that makes their playstyle different from their source fighter.

Actually *adjusts glasses* Lucina does share a play style with Marth. Even without a tipper, her moves are still safest when spaced at max range, as with most characters. Between that and sharing both range and frame data with Marth, Lucina is effectively just a lightly weaker Marth who makes up for the loss of power by having a little more leeway for error.

Now Chrom on the other hand will probably be a whole nother beast though. Because Chrom lacks Roy's sourspots, his well spaced moves are going to be a lot safer then Roy's. That means that Chrom will probably have more emphasis on spacing compared to the aggressive and in-your-face Roy and actually will play slightly differently.

 

[dada5714]

So what controllers are you planning on using? Because I'm probably gonna use a pro controller myself. I don't have one of the GC converters anyway, and the last Smash game I put a ton of time into was Smash 3DS.

Live and die by the GC controller, but trying to move over to Pro Controller. Definitely annoying having to use another controller to do anything system-related, plus want to not have to worry about wires moving forward.

 

[Fenriraga]

Oh he's appeared alright. It's just for a sidekick character, it's kinda amazing he hasn't really been playable modern Sonic game SINCE Sonic 06. Not to mention they completely ruined his character in Sonic Forces.

I'll say it again, Shadow was shoehorned after his death in SA2 by being put in Heroes and then Shadow the Hedgehog, which turned the series from "cool" to "cringe" and I'm pretty sure is what caused the Sonic 06 reboot in the first place.

I mean, to be fair, NO ONE has been playable proper in a Modern Sonic game since 06. The only exception is Shadow in Forces, and that's only because he plays exactly like Sonic.

I'm pretty sure 06's reception is what scared Sonic Team into only making Sonic playable for as long as they have. Which is pretty misguided, since we just hate how they play, not that they're playable. I'm pretty sure that if more characters just played like Sonic with some of their own quirks to set them apart, much like Tails, Knuckles, Mighty and Ray in the classic games/Mania, people would go a LOT easier on the extended cast.

I mean, heck, I know some people who think Blaze is on par with Sonic for being the closest thing to actual fun in 06, and that's because they're both speedy characters with good movement options and techniques. Much like how Rush sets them apart, but with even more quirks to individualize them while still keeping the core of what makes a Sonic game a Sonic game.

At least fans will keep giving them some proper love.

 

[Idon]

Actually *adjusts glasses* Lucina does share a play style with Marth. Even without a tipper, her moves are still safest when spaced at max range, as with most characters. Between that and sharing both range and frame data with Marth, Lucina is effectively just a lightly weaker Marth who makes up for the loss of power by having a little more leeway for error.

Now Chrom on the other hand will probably be a whole nother beast though. Because Chrom lacks Roy's sourspots, his well spaced moves are going to be a lot safer then Roy's. That means that Chrom will probably have more emphasis on spacing compared to the aggressive and in-your-face Roy and actually will play slightly differently.

Finally.
So sick of people saying "you can play Lucina more aggressively" when no, that's still gonna get you punched in the mouth.

 

[domriver]

I'm pretty sure Nintendo HQ has an algorithm that predicts when our impatient ***** will cause a ruckus, so it's only more data to feed into the algorithm.

LOL all on computer data.

President of Nintendo: How are our tweets going?
Employee: Well sir , check the data....
*shows data*
President of Nintendo: mmm they are smash hungry are they? hmmm Release more leakers into ciber space that should keep them busy for a while....
Employee: Excellent idea sir which ones?
President of Nintendo: hmmm do more Banjo Kazooie, Shantae, Steve and just for giggles do Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles.. ohhh that will be a fun one. Dont forget to obtain data on that one!!
Employee: Brilliant idea just Brilliant
President of Nintendo * walks to his big window with a perfect view of the land* I got them right on the palm of my hand... muahahahhahahahaahahaha
*screen fades black**

xD

 

[MBRedboy31]

"it's kinda amazing he hasn't really been playable modern Sonic game SINCE Sonic 06."

Sonic Mania is a Classic franchise game. I would like to play Tails in a 3D spaced environment not with sprites thank you.

There’s mobile games like Sonic Runners / Adventure and Sonic Forces Speed Battle, if those count. (I mean, they’re on-rails so that’s not quite “3D” but yeah)

 

[ZephyrZ]

Anyway since I've recently developed a love for Gravity Falls memes and references within the past years I decided to make this dumb meme.

Well I guess having a weekly music excerpt is nice but aside from that this is pretty much how I feel about the blog.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

Oh he's appeared alright. It's just for a sidekick character, it's kinda amazing he hasn't really been playable modern Sonic game SINCE Sonic 06. Not to mention they completely ruined his character in Sonic Forces.

I'll say it again, Shadow was shoehorned after his death in SA2 by being put in Heroes and then Shadow the Hedgehog, which turned the series from "cool" to "cringe" and I'm pretty sure is what caused the Sonic 06 reboot in the first place.

While Sonic Adventure 2 was a hit game, Shadow shoulda been a one time deal and stayed dead after he died at the end. Instead they shoehorned him back into Sonic Heroes and then gave him the travesty that was Shadow the Hedgehog. That's kinda the point where the Sonic franchise went from being cool to cringey. Then, realizing they kinda screwed up, Sega wanted to reboot the franchise again with Sonic 06... which failed even further. So while Sonic 06 is a huge factor in the series almost dying, that pretty much wouldn't have happened had it not been for Shadow anyways. He kinda messed things up a lot.

Now we're in an era where they're too afraid to do anything besides playable Sonic anymore. Even though Tails has done literally nothing wrong and instead has been written time and time again to be a completely useless character.

Im just going to leave this to be short I don’t want to get in a huge shadow debate. But shadow came back because of fans demands. He would of had remain dead if fans didn’t wanted him back. Shadow character in heros was not bad. His story did not really impact the games story that much. It just raise questions about is the shadow in heros is SA2 shadow. Shadow the hedgehog is a game that people didn’t expect in fact I dislike the game because it gives shadow a bad name and people to this day blame shadow for everything because of that game. Sonic 06 at that time people thought the sonic franchise was going to die and shadow was not bad in that game in fact people liked shadow story in the game the most from what I have heard. Yes shadow was in a era where the 3D sonic games were not doing well but his character should not be blamed for it. Because by this logic you can say Silver is a character that nearly killed the franchise because he originated in sonic 06. It’s just annoying people discredit shadow because of his game and the era he was in with the sonic franchise. Shadow’s game happened many years ago that some fans and sega are ignoring but we do acknowledge the music in that game. This is just my 2 cents and I will leave it at that.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I don't see why this Shadow vs Tails thing is treated as a zero-sum game. I mean honestly its like the old el paso girl said:

ESPECIALLY since odds are one of them would be an echo of Sonic thus would take less time to develop anyway. And even if we did get just one as an echo, it would not rule out the other as DLC.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Anyway since I've recently developed a love for Gravity Falls memes and references within the past years I decided to make this domb meme.
View attachment 168949

Well I guess having a weekly music excerpt is nice but aside from that this is pretty much how I feel about the blog.

I found it interesting that last game's daily updates gave lots of photos, and sometimes new information, but because it was solely picture based we never received new music. However with this game's daily updates, new music is really the only thing we're getting! Lol

Just goes to show, #smashdojo was best blog.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Splatoon is too big to share a tournament, it's so big in japan they get regional qualifier tournaments

Ok that is cool for Splatoon

 

[staindgrey]

Isn't this a bit dramatic? Tails isn't kicked anywhere, he appeared in all mainline Sonic games since 2006, something I can't say about Shadow, Amy or any character except the titular protagonist.

Also killing the franchise? Worst Sonic game was Sonic 2006 and Shadow was great in that game. I think people should stop blaming him for the faults of the franchise.

Sonic's downfall in quality really began in Sonic Adventure. If we take off the nostalgia goggles, SA1 and SA2 were pretty bad games. Shadow's spin-off was just as bad, but unlike the other two, it's commonly accepted as such because of its ridiculous premise. Sonic '06 was just historically bad.

Shadow's very existence isn't to blame for Sonic's poor showing over the last two decades. He's just a byproduct of it. People can be fans of his for any number of reasons, but people blaming him for the 3D era of Sonic games being bad are way off target.

 

[DevaAshera]

The history of Tails and Shadow is like you getting a car, and then your little brother comes along and then wrecks your car. Somehow he's the one who your parents buy a new car for while you are forgotten about and never given another one.

There can be a bit of a grudge when the once famous sidekick gets kicked to the curb by a character that nearly killed the franchise at one point.

And Knuckles did the same thing when he was created, becoming the second most popular Sonic character until Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2.

Shadow also isn't the cause of the problems in the franchise, Sonic Team is, they continually find something that works, use it twice, scrap it, start anew badly, etc. They just need to cease relying on gimmicks and focus purely on Sonic's gameplay, building on that, instead of trying to shove in multiple gameplay styles.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sometimes the blog posts give us a hint about a character's gameplay.

Sometimes.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

I don't see why this Shadow vs Tails thing is treated as a zero-sum game. I mean honestly its like the old el paso girl said:

ESPECIALLY since odds are one of them would be an echo of Sonic thus would take less time to develop anyway. And even if we did get just one as an echo, it would not rule out the other as DLC.

Exactly. I would not mind getting both however it’s just some people will straight up bash shadow or even tails. So it turns into a debate of “There can only be one!” between the two fanbases.

 

[RandomAce]

I more stages get used period. If this generation of competitive Smash is reduced to Smashville again, I’m gonna lose it.

Almost everyone doesn’t want to come back to playing on Smashville or Town and City most of the time again.

I’ve seen so many competitive players stating how they hope that with the abundance of new viable stages that they don’t have to play those stages 90% of the time.

 

[Flyboy]

I'm just over here a little sad because Knuckles was deconfirmed and no one supports Eggman...

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just over here a little sad because Knuckles was deconfirmed and no one supports Eggman...

Dr. Eggman is my most wanted Sonic newcomer if that makes a difference.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm just over here a little sad because Knuckles was deconfirmed and no one supports Eggman...

Hey, I feel ya
Eggman is my most wanted Sonic rep

Splatoon is too big to share a tournament, it's so big in japan they get regional qualifier tournaments

Shouldn't that be the same outcome for something like Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just over here a little sad because Knuckles was deconfirmed and no one supports Eggman...

Yeah, I feel like us Eggman supporters are pretty far and few between, unfortunately.

I just wanna beat people up with his SA2 Eggwalker. Is that so bad? ; - ;

 

[MainJPW]

On a semi-related note, I'm still annoyed that IDW or Flynn won't get to reuse anything made for the Archie run. That British accent gal ain't coming back...

Don't remind me...no Relic, no Breezie. Just put them in the games lol.

That reminds me, they can't include the Hooligans or Mighty and Ray... which I guess means no Honey The Cat either. That really grinds my gears.

 

[Zinith]

Sometimes the blog posts give us a hint about a character's gameplay.

Sometimes.

I'd LIKE to see my boi's entry to know what they have in mind for him...

 

[Nekoo]

Uh...While totally unreleased, like 100% unreleated I saw this little comment under red's Video of Geno and Sora:

In April, I was in attendance at a Kingdom Hearts X event in California. Tetsuya Nomura and a couple other square enix reps were doing a panel when they showcased a crossover between kingdom hearts and a final fantasy mobile game. The audience was asked if they would like to see kingdom Hearts crossover with any other games and the crowd started cheering. Someone from the audience yelled Sora4smash and the whole room clapped and cheered while Nomura and the square officials smiled and laughed to the audience reaction. Nomura was present and for sure knows the demand for Sora. I doubt Di$ney would ignore the chance to make a profit off the advertising for kh3 if sora is included. Nintendo would rake in so much $$$ for dlc profits as well as potentially sell Switches to those getting the system or game just to play as Sora.

I was extremely septical about this but...After going more research I managed to find what he was talking about.
The Kingdom Hearts Union X Dandelion meeting in california. Back in April of this years- where they revealed the KH x FF Record keeper crossover, and for this announcement Both Tetsuya Nomura AND Hashimoto were here
And after doing more research on this, peculiar things happening, It seems that this things with the crowd cheering and the question about more Crossover/ Sora crossing over and someone saying Smash indeed happened.

While I'm not implying anything at all, and absolutely not saying jack ****. It seems that Nomura and Hashimoto themselves want Kingdom Hearts to be more "Free" to cross over, and maybe Disney indeed lessen the grip and saw the crowd reaction.
Could be a nice opportunity and point for Sora being DLC candidate- since, I don't think any dev directly asked it's audience "Yo dude, wanna see crossover m8?"



Now on the Shadows vs Tails discussion.
Tails as his own characters with moves from Sonic Battle/Sonic the Fighters
Shadow as a Semi-clone/Echo.

There no other good opinion ;c

 

[SneakDuckens]

I wouldn't mind Eggman as a playable character, but I think I would be even more excited about him as a boss. I think he is a perfect smash boss with the way he uses his gadgets.

 

[SonicMario]

I'm just over here a little sad because Knuckles was deconfirmed and no one supports Eggman...

If it were up to me. The trio of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles would all be playable. Maybe with Eggman too. Albeit it's easier for me to imagine Eggman as a Spirits boss then a playable character right now.

Tails and Shadow though are just no doubt the top 2 choices in terms of being requested for Smash. Tails was there along with Sonic for the EGM April Fools hoax. And just looking at Brawl modding sites show you Shadow's usually amongst the top downloaded mods, meaning post-Brawl many people that found that they can now add more to their game Shadow's up there with some of the first things people added.