Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

Pretty sure Japan doesn’t care too much for that holiday.

Various Japanese mobile games do things to celebrate Halloween, including Nintendo's. It's definitely not obscure there.

Granted I don't think they'd time Ultimate announcements for Halloween, but still.

 

[Icedragonadam]

All newcomers are going to be shown before the game releases.

Yes I know that, I'm referring to the possibility of some of the vets being posted after the release date alongside Items, Stages, and ATs.

 

[Darkraid]

That's not necessarily true. For the last year or so general directs are announced the day before, so like the 6th and later 13th one was announced on Wednesday. I'd wait until at least Wednesday to decide if we are getting something this week.

However Smash Directs always had special announcments as far as I remember. During 4 did any just get posted by the general Nintendo Twitter? I don't remember...


I hate to be a pain but can someone link me to when Vergeben actually said a Microsoft rep? I must've missed that and can't find it.

He didnt say that.

Also Geno could very well be dlc

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

There's a big difference between showing/revealing all newcomers before the game releases, and having a blog post written about them. Blog posts don't REVEAL a newcomer; they do that in directs and trailers and such.

Yes, everything will be revealed before then. That doesn't mean the blog will just suddenly stop on Dec 6th. They can and probably will keep posting stuff after release.

While that's absolutely a possibility and I don't doubt the blog will continue updating with something, it is a little too convinent we have just enough or so veterans left to fit in the remaining weeks.

I'm not saying you can reduce the number of newcomers left, but I think it's very likely all characters will be posted before release.



Seriously about Smash directs...does anyone else think it would be weird for Nintendo of America to be the one to announce it? Is there a way to check if they have in the past? I think it's more likely we will hear directly from Sakurai maybe through the blog.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We had Dr. Mario highlighted today. Let's talk about how bad he is in 4 fundamentally. He's quite similar to Mario, but he's lower mobility which makes it harder for him to win neutral and his combo game is worse which more than offsets his extra power to overall make him require winning more exchanges to take a stock than Mario requires which can be effectively translated to him being worse in terms of effective power which means his only upside is meaningless. You're just left with winning fewer exchanges when you need to win more to succeed versus the obvious alternative; what a pointless character to pick. He also has a worse recovery which isn't even a big deal but is just more negative to go along with him not having real upside. The only upside at all is that the very direct power is better if you use a read heavy playstyle, but if you want to play a read heavy playstyle with a plumber style moveset, seriously Luigi is right over there and waiting to actually do that job competently unlike Doc.

We don't really know anything about Doc in Ultimate other than that he has a new dair. In 4, moves that only serve as meteors are mostly bad moves in effect; Doc *really* needs that to be untrue in Ultimate to have a real upside to start with. I could totally see a world where the "minimum tech distance" thing remains true so on-stage meteors are actually consistently useful so Doc could set up offense off that; it's a really important thing that I think Doc needs to go well. I think Doc needs to have less stark of a mobility disadvantage as well; it's the design that he's worse at it, but he's probably too much worse in 4 to be realistically considerable. I hope in general they work harder to give Doc a more unique identity while they're at it; do something like make the pills a lot better when Mario doesn't get comparable buffs to fireballs or something. The thing is that, in a game with a large roster, Doc might or might not be a bad character, but a character who is a worse version of another character is automatically one of the worst possible picks at all levels of play so they really need to think seriously about how to tune Doc to avoid making him the most pointless character in the game two games in a row.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Yes I know that, I'm referring to the possibility of some of the vets being posted after the release date alongside Items, Stages, and ATs.

I can see Sakurai pull a big one and not show Isaac's assist trophy until the game releases

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
Week 9
Week 10
Week 11
Week 12
Week 13
Week 14
Week 15
Week 16
Week 17
Week 18 (week not over yet)
Week 19
Week 20
Week 21
Week 22
Week 23
Week 24
Week 25
Week 26 (Week of release)

Veterans yet to be on the Blog:
ultshulk:

Not leaving much room for Newcomers, guys....

Too lazy to rewrite what I wrote on Discord, so here

As crazy as it sounds, Box Theory may be right.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

So at this point if Vergeben is actually real we bascially know all the final unique characters:
69. Incineroar
70. Microsoft Rep - Banjo and Kazooie or Steve
71. Square Rep - Likely Geno. Might also be Sora or a DQ rep

When did he say a Microsoft rep?

He said Minecraft content is in smash

 

[praline]

Too lazy to rewrite what I wrote on Discord, so here

View attachment 168867

As crazy as it sounds, Box Theory may be right.

Ken and Incineroar confirmed last characters.

 

[Luigi The President]

Too lazy to rewrite what I wrote on Discord, so here

View attachment 168867

As crazy as it sounds, Box Theory may be right.

Numerous weeks they've had 4 characters, numerous weeks they've had 2, numerous weeks they've had 3.
The assumptions we're only getting two this week is a dangerous one imo.

There's a shot, yeah, but I'm not gonna rely on it. Don't think anyone should.

 

[Idon]

We had Dr. Mario highlighted today. Let's talk about how bad he is in 4 fundamentally. He's quite similar to Mario, but he's lower mobility which makes it harder for him to win neutral and his combo game is worse which more than offsets his extra power to overall make him require winning more exchanges to take a stock than Mario requires which can be effectively translated to him being worse in terms of effective power which means his only upside is meaningless. You're just left with winning fewer exchanges when you need to win more to succeed versus the obvious alternative; what a pointless character to pick. He also has a worse recovery which isn't even a big deal but is just more negative to go along with him not having real upside. The only upside at all is that the very direct power is better if you use a read heavy playstyle, but if you want to play a read heavy playstyle with a plumber style moveset, seriously Luigi is right over there and waiting to actually do that job competently unlike Doc.

We don't really know anything about Doc in Ultimate other than that he has a new dair. In 4, moves that only serve as meteors are mostly bad moves in effect; Doc *really* needs that to be untrue in Ultimate to have a real upside to start with. I could totally see a world where the "minimum tech distance" thing remains true so on-stage meteors are actually consistently useful so Doc could set up offense off that; it's a really important thing that I think Doc needs to go well. I think Doc needs to have less stark of a mobility disadvantage as well; it's the design that he's worse at it, but he's probably too much worse in 4 to be realistically considerable. I hope in general they work harder to give Doc a more unique identity while they're at it; do something like make the pills a lot better when Mario doesn't get comparable buffs to fireballs or something. The thing is that, in a game with a large roster, Doc might or might not be a bad character, but a character who is a worse version of another character is automatically one of the worst possible picks at all levels of play so they really need to think seriously about how to tune Doc to avoid making him the most pointless character in the game two games in a row.

Honestly, I think putting the "slower and heavier but more powerful" on a character clone just spells their death sentence competitively. [X] but worse is such an awful feeling.

Had he more tools to work with and a completely different niche as a clone of Mario, I could see him being used more, buuuuuut
he doesn't so I don't see bumps in the tier list happening, especially when everyone's had their mobility and airdodges improved making it even harder for the doc to catch up.

 

[Jetsurge]

When did he say a Microsoft rep?

He said Minecraft content is in smash

It would be weird for a Microsoft one of the biggest companies in he world to have content in Smash without a character.

 

[Luigi The President]

It would be weird for a Microsoft one of the biggest companies in he world to have content in Smash without a character.

Yep. Which does not relate to you saying a Microsoft rep. You implied the character for the company was ambiguous when the only indication was that it may be a Minecraft rep.

 

[Zorfendor]

Game: Put a list of characters to complete 80!
And add 5 Echoes.

I will Start:

69- Geno
70- Isaac
71- Incineroar
72- Steve
73- Agumon
74- Crash Bandicoot
75- Banjo & Kazooie
76- Klonoa
77- Bandana Dee
78- Sora
79- Doomguy
80- Skull Kid

Echoes:

Shadow, BlackShadow, Ken, Octoling and Felix

69- Isaac
70- Chorus Kids
71- Decidueye
72- Lloyd Irving
73- Sora
74- Banjo and Kazooie
75- Professor Layton
76- Captain Toad
77- Spring-Man
78- Andy (Advance Wars)
79- Jimmy T
80- Travis Touchdown

Echoes: Dixie Kong, Shadow, Felix, Ribbon Girl, Dr. Luigi

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Too lazy to rewrite what I wrote on Discord, so here

View attachment 168867

As crazy as it sounds, Box Theory may be right.

I was thinking about this the other day, it may just mean were really hitting around 2-3 more characters to end off the base roster.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It's one of the following.

1. Steve is a character

or

2. Minecraft stage and assist trophy (Steve or Creeper, maybe both; Steve could even appear as a stage character)

If the latter I could see a split deal getting that along with Banjo-Kazooie as a character with the only cost being we don't get a Banjo stage. On top of that we could even also get a Master Chief Mii costume to further this deal.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Numerous weeks they've had 4 characters, numerous weeks they've had 2, numerous weeks they've had 3.
The assumptions we're only getting two this week is a dangerous one imo.

There's a shot, yeah, but I'm not gonna rely on it. Don't think anyone should.

I'm feeling lucky since I actually called the fact we'd get two last week.

Just ask Goldie.

 

[Deleted member]

I think if you're pushing a theory that "shifts depending on how many fighters a week they show on the blog", you're just grasping for straws.

 

[TheMilkmann]

I hope we don’t get an announcement lol.

You must be some kind of sadist or something to say that

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I hope we don’t get an announcement lol.

You want to watch people burn one another down

 

[StarLight42]

We had Dr. Mario highlighted today. Let's talk about how bad he is in 4 fundamentally. He's quite similar to Mario, but he's lower mobility which makes it harder for him to win neutral and his combo game is worse which more than offsets his extra power to overall make him require winning more exchanges to take a stock than Mario requires which can be effectively translated to him being worse in terms of effective power which means his only upside is meaningless. You're just left with winning fewer exchanges when you need to win more to succeed versus the obvious alternative; what a pointless character to pick. He also has a worse recovery which isn't even a big deal but is just more negative to go along with him not having real upside. The only upside at all is that the very direct power is better if you use a read heavy playstyle, but if you want to play a read heavy playstyle with a plumber style moveset, seriously Luigi is right over there and waiting to actually do that job competently unlike Doc.

We don't really know anything about Doc in Ultimate other than that he has a new dair. In 4, moves that only serve as meteors are mostly bad moves in effect; Doc *really* needs that to be untrue in Ultimate to have a real upside to start with. I could totally see a world where the "minimum tech distance" thing remains true so on-stage meteors are actually consistently useful so Doc could set up offense off that; it's a really important thing that I think Doc needs to go well. I think Doc needs to have less stark of a mobility disadvantage as well; it's the design that he's worse at it, but he's probably too much worse in 4 to be realistically considerable. I hope in general they work harder to give Doc a more unique identity while they're at it; do something like make the pills a lot better when Mario doesn't get comparable buffs to fireballs or something. The thing is that, in a game with a large roster, Doc might or might not be a bad character, but a character who is a worse version of another character is automatically one of the worst possible picks at all levels of play so they really need to think seriously about how to tune Doc to avoid making him the most pointless character in the game two games in a row.

I'm hoping that the fact that there was no mention between a difference in speed among him and Mario in the blog post, means they've done away with that change. Do we know for a fact he's slower yet?

I was pretty bummed out when it seemed like his jump height was increased in his character video, only for the blog post to say his jump height is once again inferior to Mario's.

I'll still main him, but christ he really needs a boost in this game. Hoping for the best!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally this is how I think it should go for an Nintendo-Microsoft deal.

Banjo as a character
Minecraft stage (Steve? appears as a background character) and assist trophy (Creeper)
Master Chief Mii Costume

Pretty good deal if you ask me. Doubtful this will be the case though.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm feeling lucky since I actually called the fact we'd get two last week.

View attachment 168869
View attachment 168870

Just ask Goldie.

The irony is that it was a Pokémon instead. :V

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The irony is that it was a Pokémon instead. :V

Poke Ball and Assist Trophies have the same basic function :V

 

[WolfCypher]

Why do you like Doc Mario so much StarLight42

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

I think if you're pushing a theory that "shifts depending on how many fighters a week they show on the blog", you're just grasping for straws.

Yes we are grasping for straws, straws that will help us drink the tears of those who were aganist box theory and then ends up being true.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I wouldn't mind if had like 2 newcomers left. The roster is already perfect.

All it needs is Leon Kennedy, Dante, Sora, and Ryu Hayabusa and it'll be perfect.

 

[lightdrago]

Personally this is how I think it should go for an Nintendo-Microsoft deal.

Banjo as a character
Minecraft stage and assist trophy (Creeper, while Steve appears as a stage character)
Master Chief Mii Costume

Pretty good deal if you ask me. Doubtful this will be the case though.

Eh, I’d switch the first two tbh. A Banko stage w a cameo. I’d prefer we have Steve over Banjo. Ideally we would have both, and we might just yet, but I’d choose Steve for his game’s success and recognizability.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

You know, I wouldn't mind if had like 2 newcomers left. The roster is already perfect.

All it needs is Leon Kennedy, Dante, Sora, and Ryu Hayabusa and it'll be perfect.

If we want to be realistic this is probably who is left.

69: Incineroar
70: Steve? or Geno (If the former, the latter will be announced as the first DLC character)
38e: Shadow
60e: Ken

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

God i can't wait for this game to be released and for the speculation cycle to stop so i don't have to see 99 different theories that claims they're the right one

 

[TMNTSSB4]

We had Dr. Mario highlighted today. Let's talk about how bad he is in 4 fundamentally. He's quite similar to Mario, but he's lower mobility which makes it harder for him to win neutral and his combo game is worse which more than offsets his extra power to overall make him require winning more exchanges to take a stock than Mario requires which can be effectively translated to him being worse in terms of effective power which means his only upside is meaningless. You're just left with winning fewer exchanges when you need to win more to succeed versus the obvious alternative; what a pointless character to pick. He also has a worse recovery which isn't even a big deal but is just more negative to go along with him not having real upside. The only upside at all is that the very direct power is better if you use a read heavy playstyle, but if you want to play a read heavy playstyle with a plumber style moveset, seriously Luigi is right over there and waiting to actually do that job competently unlike Doc.

We don't really know anything about Doc in Ultimate other than that he has a new dair. In 4, moves that only serve as meteors are mostly bad moves in effect; Doc *really* needs that to be untrue in Ultimate to have a real upside to start with. I could totally see a world where the "minimum tech distance" thing remains true so on-stage meteors are actually consistently useful so Doc could set up offense off that; it's a really important thing that I think Doc needs to go well. I think Doc needs to have less stark of a mobility disadvantage as well; it's the design that he's worse at it, but he's probably too much worse in 4 to be realistically considerable. I hope in general they work harder to give Doc a more unique identity while they're at it; do something like make the pills a lot better when Mario doesn't get comparable buffs to fireballs or something. The thing is that, in a game with a large roster, Doc might or might not be a bad character, but a character who is a worse version of another character is automatically one of the worst possible picks at all levels of play so they really need to think seriously about how to tune Doc to avoid making him the most pointless character in the game two games in a row.

Honestly all I care for is that he’s still fun as hell

 

[Idon]

The roster's perfect but can I get uhhhhhhh

EVERYONE I'VE EVER WANTED EVER.

 

[praline]

God i can't wait for this game to be released and for the speculation cycle to stop so i don't have to see 99 different theories that claims they're the right one

Nah it releases and then we shift to dlc speculation.

 

[WolfCypher]

Personally this is how I think it should go for an Nintendo-Microsoft deal.

Banjo as a character
Minecraft stage (Steve? appears as a background character) and assist trophy (Creeper)
Master Chief Mii Costume

Pretty good deal if you ask me. Doubtful this will be the case though.

This is how I think a Microsoft-Nintendo deal should go

Banjo as a character
Like how Marth/Roy in Melee brought Fire Emblem interest to westerners...
Like how Pit in Brawl brought Kid Icarus interest demanding a Kid Icarus revival...
...Banjo-Kazooie interest further intiesifies; Microsoft uses this to revive the IP
Microsoft comes out with a new Banjo-Kazooie game while the iron from SSBU's inclusion of him is still hot
Nintendo gets to put Rare games on their N64 classic/Switch in return

 

[Deleted member]

If we want to be realistic this is probably who is left.

69: Incineroar
70: Steve or Geno (If the former, the latter will be announced as the first DLC character)
38e: Shadow
60e: Ken

If I had to give my honest predictions, this would be them.

Unique Fighters:
Incineroar
Elma
Dragon Quest Protagonist

Echo Figthers:
Ken
Shadow
Impa (Please Sakurai!)

 

[Noipoi]

The roster's perfect but can I get uhhhhhhh

EVERYONE I'VE EVER WANTED EVER.

Sorry, your tastes are too anime .

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nah it releases and then we shift to dlc speculation.

We can probably agree on Spring Man w/ Ribbon Girl as an echo and Rex being among those can we?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

God i can't wait for this game to be released and for the speculation cycle to stop so i don't have to see 99 different theories that claims they're the right one

But when the game releases, there will probably be DLC.
Meaning we will still have theories

 

[praline]

We can probably agree on Spring Man w/ Ribbon Girl as an echo and Rex being among those can we?

Sadly yes.

 

[TheCJBrine]

*see's Box Theory brought back up*

Oh, boy...