Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

I know I keep bashing that game, but half of that is actually me trying to convince myself to not cave in and buy it.

Even with all those backwards design choices they're making, the I'm still enough of a fanboy that even I have a hard time resisting the temptation of flying around Kanto on Charizard-back with an Eevee on my head.

That's the power of Pokemon.
They hook you in with awesome creatures and a unique world.
It gets to the point where even when they do some questionable things, you still long to go back to that world.

 

[Knight Dude]

Honestly, I'd argue more in favor of Omnimon.

Seems like Final Smash material if it isn't some form of Greymon. Or picking Vegito before Goku for some JUMP game.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

How the **** is an insult only kinda disrespectful when that's the whole point of the insult?

I fixed it. Shame on me for making a sentence mistake. >.>

 

[osby]

As he should. She's the GOAT.
If someone mains WFT I fear them with my life.

I kinda secondary her. She's my top played among Smash For newcomers after Palutena, alongside with Robin.

 

[lightdrago]

Y'know, I'm really torn about getting Let's Go. On the one hand, I feel like I'd rather just wait for Gen 8.

On the other, I can pet an Eevee that adorably mispronounces its name as "Evoi!"

I am conflicted.

I'm kind of annoyed we can't evolve Pikachu/Eevee. I like using the final forms of my starter so being locked out of it irks me. At least we have Meltan...

meltan for smash

 

[IGuessItsOver]

So uh, which Smash characters do you think play Dark Souls?

 

[Luigi The President]

I think I just want to keep my expectations low but if we are talking 6 characters

Incineroar/ Waddle Dee/Geno
Ken/Shadow/Dixie

makes a lot of sense to me. it has vergebens characters plus some oddly missing ones (waddle dee/shadow/dixie).

theres other characters that were "hinted at", "missing", or have something going in their favor but they realistically might just be somewhere else in the game, those 6 imo make the most sense as being "playable" where as other "talked-about/hinted at" character might just be else where in the game... isaac might just be back as an assist (sadly) rhythmn heaven could just get a stage, characters like skull kid/black knight/medusa might all be bosses in some kind of one player mode (spirits), shantae could be in as an assist and her company might still be hinting at and happy about that, minecraft could be in the game in some form other than steve? like a stage (if we do have 108 it would make sense) or an assist trophy. elma could also be an assist or sakurai is holding off a 2nd xenoblade rep for rex/pyra as dlc.

then theres plenty of third party characters like rayman or banjo or sora etc... who could all be saved for dlc, same goes for another namco rep heihachi/lloyd etc... same for echo fighter candidates like impa or if characters like isaac or skull kid DONT show up anywhere in the game they might be being held off for dlc.

again i have my expectations super low in case of box theory or close to it, but those 6 with the other likely characters simply filling other rolls in the game makes the most sense to me IF we end up getting like 6 more characters.

I've said it 100 times but Minecraft not getting a playable rep if they nabbed the license for it is silly to me. Hopefully this statement doesn't start another war on the subject. I get it happened for MonHun but Minecraft and MonHun as well as their companies are ENTIRELY different beasts.

Bandana Dee used to be a lock for me but unfortunately I've had to leave him behind.
Never seen Sakurai as the type to hold off on characters. But Sora, Banjo, even another Namco rep would all make total sense as DLC imo.
Geno wouldn't, which is why I see base roster as his last chance, though.

 

[P.Kat]

That's what i'm thinking will happen.
A lot of Pokemon fans weren't cool with Incineroar until they saw him in action, then they warmed up to him.
I think it'll be the same here.

Well you know the reason for my disinterest from my early qoute (which is also the same reason why I'm not interested in Ridley or King K. (glad people got them though))

However, I hope I'm wrong about him, and they're actually a quick and nimble character. If I'm wrong about Incineroar, you'll be the first person I'll apologize to. If I'm not wrong... well that doesn't matter, as long as your happy with Incineroar. Keep supporting Incineroar, I hope you get em

People go and say: "Agumon is not the best representative from Digimon, put Renamon! Shes great and have alot of Moveset possibilities!"

I imagine if Smash Bros were to be created Today, people would not want Pikachu and instead would want Lucario, Zoroark and alot other Pokes instead of Pikachu.

Some guys don't realy understand how to represent a franchise in a game, at all.

Either of the two would make me happy

Now now, no need to give him heat over it. :V

You too Sir/Madame, to your room and because of that pun you, and Noipoi are both grounded for an extra two weeks

 

[Robertman2]

Pokémon in completely subjective terms of likelihood as new characters:

7) A non Buzzwole Ultra beast - UB’s are new.
6) Meowth - Just was a main antagonist in a game, has had long running fan support, and was previously considered
5) Eevee - Just had a game where he was oppposite pikachu. That’s big
4) Buzzwole - UB’s are new. He’s iconic.
3) Tapu Koko - I just feel we’re sleeping on this legendary fighting kickin chicken.
2) Decidueye - Only dismissed because of leakers. Was the top shot before that.
1) Incineroar - New fighting type of wrestling, has too much leak buzz to ignore.

What game was Meowth the main antagonist?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm a big *** Skull Kid fanboy and I'm proud of it. I don't know why the term "fanboy" needs to have a negative connotation.

It's fun to call yourself a fanboy.
It's okay to call a friend a fanboy when you want to engage in playful banter with them.

But when you call someone a fanboy while throwing shade at their tastes, it's usually considered disrespectful and implies that they only like said thing out of some extreme bias.

 

[Will]

I kinda feel dead because of Verg, our holy leader, our absolute truth speaker, the prophet himself, said Steve was in. Now my sekret klub isn't private anymore and now I can't have as many bragging rights if I'm right because someone bigger also talked about it.

 

[Graizen]

I could see greymon being the 2nd best rep, but I've never heard of anyone else pining for a rep that isn't Agumon.

Agumon should have all his evolutions as part of his Moveset.
Echo? Maybe BlackAgumon or Agumon X.

 

[Crooked Crow]

I kinda feel dead because of Verg, our holy leader, our absolute truth speaker, the prophet himself, said Steve was in. Now my sekret klub isn't private anymore and now I can't have as many bragging rights if I'm right because someone bigger also talked about it.

Your avatar has a crazy haircut, dang.

 

[Luigi The President]

I kinda feel dead because of Verg, our holy leader, our absolute truth speaker, the prophet himself, said Steve was in. Now my sekret klub isn't private anymore and now I can't have as many bragging rights if I'm right because someone bigger also talked about it.

I'll always remember you as the original Steve defender. Though I feel like I also helped defend him. But I know you to have always stood up for him.
Though no, Verge only said Steve MAY be in. I shouldn't be acting like he's a lock, but, well, fools on me.

 

[osby]

So uh, which Smash characters do you think play Dark Souls?

Pichu, of course.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

So uh, which Smash characters do you think play Dark Souls?

Shulk, Ganon, Dark pit and Wolf

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

It's fun to call yourself a fanboy.
It's okay to call a friend a fanboy when you want to engage in playful banter with them.

But when you call someone a fanboy while throwing shade at their tastes, it's usually considered disrespectful and implies that they only like said thing out of some extreme bias.

Liking something because of extreme bias? It's impossible to form an opinion without being bias and who's going around measuring people's bias levels anyway? Also fanboy doesn't have to be disrespectful if you don't let it be.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it is very wrong to say Smash 4's gameplay is "bad".

Smash 4's aesthetics like looks, moving, and all of that was much better than Brawl's.

Brawl's realistic style did not fit too well and the gameplay was way too floaty.

I am not talking about Solo modes. Just like how everyone moves and how the game looks and feels.

Also does not even come close comparing to .

 

[Graizen]

Honestly, I'd argue more in favor of Omnimon.

Agumon should have all his evolutions as part of his Moveset.
And Omnimon/Omegamon is a Fusion with Gabumon. Maybe a Final Smash?

Seems like Final Smash material if it isn't some form of Greymon. Or picking Vegito before Goku for some JUMP game.

Just like that. Or Gogeta.

Either of the two would make me happy

Happy? Yeah!
But Agumon is the Mascot, thats the problem here.
Its like putting Blastoise and not Pikachu.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

The way Crow was using the term "fanboy" was meant to be disrespectful, well, from my perspective anyways.

 

[Arcad5]

So uh, which Smash characters do you think play Dark Souls?

Definitely Luigi.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

I think I just want to keep my expectations low but if we are talking 6 characters

Incineroar/ Waddle Dee/Geno
Ken/Shadow/Dixie

makes a lot of sense to me. it has vergebens characters plus some oddly missing ones (waddle dee/shadow/dixie).

theres other characters that were "hinted at", "missing", or have something going in their favor but they realistically might just be somewhere else in the game, those 6 imo make the most sense as being "playable" where as other "talked-about/hinted at" character might just be else where in the game... isaac might just be back as an assist (sadly) rhythmn heaven could just get a stage, characters like skull kid/black knight/medusa might all be bosses in some kind of one player mode (spirits), shantae could be in as an assist and her company might still be hinting at and happy about that, minecraft could be in the game in some form other than steve? like a stage (if we do have 108 it would make sense) or an assist trophy. elma could also be an assist or sakurai is holding off a 2nd xenoblade rep for rex/pyra as dlc.

then theres plenty of third party characters like rayman or banjo or sora etc... who could all be saved for dlc, same goes for another namco rep heihachi/lloyd etc... same for echo fighter candidates like impa or if characters like isaac or skull kid DONT show up anywhere in the game they might be being held off for dlc.

again i have my expectations super low in case of box theory or close to it, but those 6 with the other likely characters simply filling other rolls in the game makes the most sense to me IF we end up getting like 6 more characters.

If I get bandana dee and shadow at the same time I will be Etika levels of hype. But I’m not going to break my shelf though lol

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Are we getting a character reveal this week or what?
I can't take this anymore

 

[Noipoi]

If I get bandana dee and shadow at the same time I will be Etika levels of hype. But I’m not going to break my shelf though lol

We need to start a shelf protection program.
How many more shelves need to be broken before someone speaks up?

 

[Idon]

I kinda feel dead because of Verg, our holy leader, our absolute truth speaker, the prophet himself, said Steve was in. Now my sekret klub isn't private anymore and now I can't have as many bragging rights if I'm right because someone bigger also talked about it.

Alright, loosen up those hipster pants.
We can't all be as galaxy brain as you are.

 

[Deleted member]

Seems like Final Smash material if it isn't some form of Greymon. Or picking Vegito before Goku for some JUMP game.

Not exactly.

Omnimon has more of a "perfect attendance" record throughout Digimon media nowadays than Agumon itself.
And is arguably THE MOST popular Digimon all time.

It's not the same as Vegito, since not every Omnimon is related to Agumon and is rather judged on its OWN status.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

At the risk of starting to sound like a broken record, I feel that KOS-MOS's chances are substantially higher than many people give credit... Of course, making a claim like that with no data to support it would feel to me as though I were doing you all a disservice. Be that as it may, I've compiled a fair bit of speculation fuel in the hopes it may be enough to see her fire lit.

Spoiler: Lynn's KOS-MOS Write-Up

KOS-MOS is a character whose original appearance was in Monolith Soft's flagship game, "Xenosaga Episode I: Der Wille zur Macht" published by Namco. Since this time, she has been established as a mascot of sorts for both companies, making cameo and crossover appearances many times across several platforms.

As for Nintendo platforms -which are most relevant to this particular argument- KOS-MOS has appeared in

-"Xenosaga Episodes I&II" for Nintendo DS (2006)​

-"Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier" for Nintendo DS (2008)​

-"Project X Zone" for Nintendo 3DS (2012)​

-"Project X Zone 2" for Nintendo 3DS (2015)​

-"Xenoblade Chronicles 2" for Nintendo Switch (2017)​

It is perhaps also noteworthy that both Fiora from Xenoblade Chronicles and Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X take inspiration from Xenosaga's gynoid savior.

To get into more circumstantial points. Bandai-Namco trademarked "Also Sprach Zerathusdra" in the US 2 months prior to the official announcement for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate at E3. This suggests Bandai-Namco has plans for Xenosaga Episode III moving forward, and implies intent on their part to utilize that trademark in some fashion, such as with a remake, or perhaps a digital port to the Switch.

Regardless, it illustrates Bandai-Namco believes Xenosaga is and/or will soon be quite marketable. To lend further credence to that sentiment, a scale figure for KOS-MOS Re: was announced on July 28th of this year.

​

For reference, the only Xenoblade Chronicles 2 figure to be commissioned prior to KOS-MOS Re: was a coordinated pair for Pyra & Mythra, meaning Xenosaga's gynoid heroine was chosen over fan favorites like Nia and Morag, despite the limited nature of her appearance. Also, as a bit of food for thought: It is not unlikely the KOS-MOS scale figure will be completed and made available right around Smash Ultimate's release date, given production periods.

As for the design itself, it is probable the overall goal for the design was to bring KOS-MOS into the modern day, and to do so in as near to an official capacity as could be achieved without another installment in the Xenosaga series. To accomplish this, Kunihiko Tanaka (KOS-MOS's original designer) was called in. He later provided an article on the process for inclusion in "Production Notes." Two pieces of note being the core idea to display KOS-MOS as "The Symbol of Xenosaga" as well as the Re: in KOS-MOS Re: standing for "refrain", or the idea of being "born again."

It is also potentially of note that KOS-MOS, as a cameo, has been supported with further content in Patch 1.5.1 and Patch 1.5.2. She also received special character art with the release of Torna the Golden Country.

[Disclaimer: This is Purely my own Speculation]​

While those points may mean little in isolation, taken in unison suggests intention. I personally find it worth highlighting that completely re-designing KOS-MOS solely to include her in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was entirely unnecessary. Neither V1 nor V4 would have appeared out of place within XC2's aesthetics, and any alterations to her design would need be cleared by Namco at every turn. That is to say, Monolith would diverted what many would consider an excess of resources, all for a cameo. This, in addition to the scale figure mentioned prior, alludes toward KOS-MOS Re: being put forth as a definitive design moving forward, so we should expect to see more of it in the future.

(Also, specifically in regards to Smash Brothers, it is not unlikely that KOS-MOS had been suggested by both Namco and Monolith before, but that V4 was turned down for being too risque for Sakurai's tastes. This re-imagining of her is far more in line with Nintendo's philosophies.)

It is fairly long, but if you're curious -even if only in the hopes of picking apart and rebutting it- feedback would be greatly appreciated.

A good essay. I too want KOS-MOS and am not ruling her out, even beyond base roster she has a good chance at DLC I’d say.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Liking something because of extreme bias? It's impossible to form an opinion without being bias and who's going around measuring people's bias levels anyway? Also fanboy doesn't have to be disrespectful if you don't let it be.

My point was that its about context and intentions. What was the person implying with the word fanboy, and why did they think calling someone that was neccesary?

 

[Deleted member]

I'll always remember you as the original Steve defender. Though I feel like I also helped defend him. But I know you to have always stood up for him.
Though no, Verge only said Steve MAY be in. I shouldn't be acting like he's a lock, but, well, fools on me.

I am a Steve fan too ( Even though I do not like to admit it, because you know how mean people can be. ).
Good taste Arigarmy too.

I kinda feel dead because of Verg, our holy leader, our absolute truth speaker, the prophet himself, said Steve was in. Now my sekret klub isn't private anymore and now I can't have as many bragging rights if I'm right because someone bigger also talked about it.

I smiled because I thought of Zerg from Toy Story for a second.

 

[Will]

Your avatar has a crazy haircut, dang.

Diss the nut man and you get nutted.

Are we getting a character reveal this week or what?
I can't take this anymore
View attachment 168769

Idk just wait it out

 

[Graizen]

Not exactly.

Omnimon has more of a "perfect attendance" record throughout Digimon media nowadays than Agumon itself.
And is arguably THE MOST popular Digimon all time.

It's not the same as Vegito, since not every Omnimon is related to Agumon and is rather judged on its OWN status.

Goku is not more popular than other characters in Drabon Ball, like Vegeta.
But you will never put Vegeta first and not Goku in a game.

Thats the problem.
Agumon is the mascot. He is the Face.
Omegamon is a evolution that Agumon can reach.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

I don't feel KOS-MOS would be another hypothetical Namco rep over Lloyd, Heihachi, and even a Soulcalibur rep.
I mean, after those 2-3, I could start envisioning it.

I certainly agree that Heihachi would take precedence if one were ranking Bandai-Namco characters by importance, Tekken being what it is... However, might I inquire as to why you consider Lloyd and Soulcalibur characters more likely?

(Also, I converted the write-up back to Arial for you. Sorry about that.)

 

[Will]

Alright, loosen up those hipster pants.
We can't all be as galaxy brain as you are.

It's not being galaxy brain it's just having a galaxy ego and/or pride.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Thoughts on this?

Spoiler

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

It's a devout fan who often ignores criticisms of their particular platform because of an inherent bias. It has nothing to do with measuring intelligence, just bias.

Ummm dude... you don't want to go there. Trust me. I've been there. It ain't pretty


Anyways, what Masterpieces do you all want to see?
I'm personally hoping for Smash 64, with it being close to it's 20th Anniversary and all.

 

[Crooked Crow]

My point was that its about context and intentions. What was the person implying with the word fanboy, and why did they think calling someone that was neccesary?

Clearly hit a nerve.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

My point was that its about context and intentions. What was the person implying with the word fanboy, and why did they think calling someone that was neccesary?

I guess my point is yall are overreacting to the term.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Again with the using of 'boring' as an argument for not wanting a character in Smash

For heaven's sake

I feel like that term is used as a last resort when one can't come up with a reason to truly dislike a certain character's inclusion

Out of the newcomers we've got in Ultimate Inkling might be considered to be the only one without a 'boring' moveset

Or does this word 'boring' mean something completely different?, asking as a non-english speaker

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I kinda feel dead because of Verg, our holy leader, our absolute truth speaker, the prophet himself, said Steve was in. Now my sekret klub isn't private anymore and now I can't have as many bragging rights if I'm right because someone bigger also talked about it.

Wait Vergeben 100% backed Steve? I thought it was his usually ehhhhh maybe idk, like the Square Character. (I know he is positive about a Square Character, just not which).

 

[Will]

Thoughts on this?

Spoiler

I can just smell that Ctrl + Shift + I