Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Pokémon in completely subjective terms of likelihood as new characters:


5) Eevee - Just had a game where he was oppposite pikachu. That’s big

The game's not out yet, mate.
November 16th.

 

[Idon]

I could see greymon being the 2nd best rep, but I've never heard of anyone else pining for a rep that isn't Agumon.

 

[Freduardo]

The game's not out yet, mate.
November 16th.

Fair. I mean the when Smash comes out, he’ll just have had a game.

 

[Deleted member]

Neeko and DaybreakHorizon
Do you like B2/W2 or Platinum better? I have a curiosity.

Also are people really hating on Incineroar? Incineroar would be nice to see in Smash.

You should of posted this image when everyone was bashing USUM.

 

[Crooked Crow]

I don't know why you're suddenly hitting me with the nihilism mix-up when my point was literally just that you don't need to call Noi a fanboy for bringing up his excitement over a character we see put down basically every day in this thread??

But go off I guess, not sure why you're suddenly bringing up "well actually speculation is pointless and you're just bored lol" in response to me implying you shouldn't put people down for enjoying Incineroar?

You take this site too seriously.

 

[Graizen]

I don't really see people mention Digimon much at all for Smash. I can think of a couple of people aside from you, but most say Agumon.

I would agree that any of them that aren't Agumon or something in his line would be weird though. Maybe Gabumon, but that's still taking Charizard or Blastoise before Pikachu.

Yeah man! Its harsh.
Some of the Digimon fans are fliping stupid.
You say "Agumon is the mascot , he is in the cover of EVERYTHING from Digimon"
The guys will say "Nah, you are crazy"

 

[lightdrago]

You take this site too seriously.

You don't take it seriously enough.

 

[Luigi The President]

At the risk of starting to sound like a broken record, I feel that KOS-MOS's chances are substantially higher than many people give credit... Of course, making a claim like that with no data to support it would feel to me as though I were doing you all a disservice. Be that as it may, I've compiled a fair bit of speculation fuel in the hopes it may be enough to see her fire lit.

Spoiler: Lynn's KOS-MOS Write-Up

KOS-MOS is a character whose original appearance was in Monolith Soft's flagship game, "Xenosaga Episode I: Der Wille zur Macht" published by Namco. Since this time, she has been established as a mascot of sorts for both companies, making cameo and crossover appearances many times across several platforms.

As for Nintendo platforms -which are most relevant to this particular argument- KOS-MOS has appeared in

-"Xenosaga Episodes I&II" for Nintendo DS (2006)​

-"Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier" for Nintendo DS (2008)​

-"Project X Zone" for Nintendo 3DS (2012)​

-"Project X Zone 2" for Nintendo 3DS (2015)​

-"Xenoblade Chronicles 2" for Nintendo Switch (2017)​

It is perhaps also noteworthy that both Fiora from Xenoblade Chronicles and Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X take inspiration from Xenosaga's gynoid savior.

To get into more circumstantial points. Bandai-Namco trademarked "Also Sprach Zerathusdra" in the US 2 months prior to the official announcement for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate at E3. This suggests Bandai-Namco has plans for Xenosaga Episode III moving forward, and implies intent on their part to utilize that trademark in some fashion, such as with a remake, or perhaps a digital port to the Switch.

Regardless, it illustrates Bandai-Namco believes Xenosaga is and/or will soon be quite marketable. To lend further credence to that sentiment, a scale figure for KOS-MOS Re: was announced on July 28th of this year.

​

For reference, the only Xenoblade Chronicles 2 figure to be commissioned prior to KOS-MOS Re: was a coordinated pair for Pyra & Mythra, meaning Xenosaga's gynoid heroine was chosen over fan favorites like Nia and Morag, despite the limited nature of her appearance. Also, as a bit of food for thought: It is not unlikely the KOS-MOS scale figure will be completed and made available right around Smash Ultimate's release date, given production periods.

As for the design itself, it is probable the overall goal for the design was to bring KOS-MOS into the modern day, and to do so in as near to an official capacity as could be achieved without another installment in the Xenosaga series. To accomplish this, Kunihiko Tanaka (KOS-MOS's original designer) was called in. He later provided an article on the process for inclusion in "Production Notes." Two pieces of note being the core idea to display KOS-MOS as "The Symbol of Xenosaga" as well as the Re: in KOS-MOS Re: standing for "refrain", or the idea of being "born again."

It is also potentially of note that KOS-MOS, as a cameo, has been supported with further content in Patch 1.5.1 and Patch 1.5.2. She also received special character art with the release of Torna the Golden Country.

[Disclaimer: This is Purely my own Speculation]​

While those points may mean little in isolation, taken in unison suggests intention. I personally find it worth highlighting that completely re-designing KOS-MOS solely to include her in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was entirely unnecessary. Neither V1 nor V4 would have appeared out of place within XC2's aesthetics, and any alterations to her design would need be cleared by Namco at every turn. That is to say, Monolith would diverted what many would consider an excess of resources, all for a cameo. This, in addition to the scale figure mentioned prior, alludes toward KOS-MOS Re: being put forth as a definitive design moving forward, so we should expect to see more of it in the future.

(Also, specifically in regards to Smash Brothers, it is not unlikely that KOS-MOS had been suggested by both Namco and Monolith before, but that V4 was turned down for being too risque for Sakurai's tastes. This re-imagining of her is far more in line with Nintendo's philosophies.)

It is fairly long, but if you're curious -even if only in the hopes of picking apart and rebutting it- feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I don't feel KOS-MOS would be another hypothetical Namco rep over Lloyd, Heihachi, and even a Soulcalibur rep.
I mean, after those 2-3, I could start envisioning it.

But I'd imagine they'd include more Xenoblade characters than Xenosaga characters, as from what I understand that series is long dead. Xenoblade's taken it's place, and I'd imagine that goes for KOS-MOS too.

Can I ask one simple thing though? The font you use for your text gets hard to read and blends together. If possible could you use the normal font on longer write-ups? Thank you.

You take this site too seriously.

Alright Shadow

 

[Deleted member]

The game's not out yet, mate.
November 16th.

Y'know, I'm really torn about getting Let's Go. On the one hand, I feel like I'd rather just wait for Gen 8.

On the other, I can pet an Eevee that adorably mispronounces its name as "Evoi!"

I am conflicted.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Man, I see should have saved my 'opinions suck' reaction image for somebody else.

Just make it your avatar...

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

To break up this conversation:
https://www.twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/1049381417384386560

 

[Crooked Crow]

You don't take it seriously enough.

Oof. I've been had.

I used to, though. Joined 11 years ago. Site was a lot more active and busy back then. Felt like a real community.

 

[Zinith]

Yeah man! Its harsh.
Some of the Digimon fans are fliping stupid.
You say "Agumon is the mascot , he is in the cover of EVERYTHING from Digimon"
The guys will say "Nah, you are crazy"

I think the problem is that Digimon is primarily a character-focused series, so a lot of the screen time is taken up trying to represent each team member and Digimon partner equally.

 

[Luigi The President]

To break up this conversation:
https://www.twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/1049381417384386560

Really hoping she's top tier in this one not gonna lie

 

[Idon]

You take this site too seriously.

I mean, to be fair, you're the one name-calling people because they like a character you don't...

 

[Noipoi]

Methinks Crooked Crow be baitin'. Let's agree to disagree, and look at this cute picture of Callie instead:

Spoiler

I see your Callie, but what about this Marie?

Spoiler

 

[Luigi The President]

I see your Callie, but what about this Marie?

Spoiler

View attachment 168766

Callie fans are ripped to shreds by Marie fans on the daily let these poor stans be

 

[Deleted member]

Roses are red
Orchids are pink

I'm going to have to sue you for your attempt at murder by making me laugh too hard.

 

[Graizen]

Not gonna lie you are literally the only reason I know any of these characters names

Its cool, tere are like 2000 Digimons. You can look here if you want: http://wikimon.net/Main_Page

That happens with every character suggested for Smash, don't worry about it.

Im not realy worried!
The problem is that this makes asking for support for Agumon 1000 times harder.
You post something asking for support for Agumon on the Digimon Reddit, they start:
"Agumon is ****" , "Digimon is not a Game" , "Renamon is better"

 

[ZephyrZ]

You take this site too seriously.

The number of times I've seen this as an excuse to deflect critisism.

Is it too much to ask that you show respect to fellow human beings, on the internet or otherwise?

 

[Luigi The President]

Its cool, tere are like 2000 Digimons. You can look here if you want: http://wikimon.net/Main_Page



Im not realy worried!
The problem is that this makes asking for support for Agumon 1000 times harder.
You post something asking for support for Agumon on the Digimon Reddit, they start:
"Agumon is ****" , "Digimon is not a Game" , "Renamon is better"

I mean Agumon getting in before any other Digimon is just kinda an objective thing in my eyes. Not that I think him being included at all is likely, but if Digimon got a character it'd kinda obviously be him.

It'd be like including Onion Knight before Cloud if you included anyone before Agumon.

 

[Deleted member]

I could see greymon being the 2nd best rep, but I've never heard of anyone else pining for a rep that isn't Agumon.

Honestly, I'd argue more in favor of Omnimon.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

Speculation is pointless.

On the contrary. Speculation is playing with a toy you do not have. Speculation is finding joy and purpose where before there was only the void. Speculation is critical thinking at its most robust.

It is the foundation of Science and Philosophy, and among the greatest tools available to mankind.

 

[Noipoi]

Y'know, I'm really torn about getting Let's Go. On the one hand, I feel like I'd rather just wait for Gen 8.

On the other, I can pet an Eevee that adorably mispronounces its name as "Evoi!"

I am conflicted.

I'm gonna be 100% honest right now.
Originally I was only getting it because I want Meltan, i'm not down with motion controls and hand holding.
But you might be able to give your starter a really shaggy hair cut that covers it's eyes.
I kinda want a shaggy Pikachu...

 

[Deleted member]

I see your Callie, but what about this Marie?

Spoiler

View attachment 168766

HNNNNG. *Insert Fire Emblem critical hit noise here*

Well, played, that was a smart move. However, what about this?:

Spoiler

The one true answer: They're all great and best girl.

 

[Will]

Really hoping she's top tier in this one not gonna lie

That deep breathing looked mega quick, too, maybe she's got some big buffs to make up for those wacky hitboxes I've been hearing about.

 

[Crooked Crow]

I mean, to be fair, you're the one name-calling people because they like a character you don't...

You... you really think calling somebody a "fanboy" is equivalent to calling them stupid or a ******, or such?

 

[Graizen]

I think the problem is that Digimon is primarily a character-focused series, so a lot of the screen time is taken up trying to represent each team member and Digimon partner equally.

Yeah , and i understand that on the Anime seasons.
But Agumon is the main Digimon in 90% of the Digimon games as well.
In Mangas, that have stories completely apart from the Animes.
Etc etc etc

I mean Agumon getting in before any other Digimon is just kinda an objective thing in my eyes. Not that I think him being included at all is likely, but if Digimon got a character it'd kinda obviously be him.

It'd be like including Onion Knight before Cloud if you included anyone before Agumon.

Yeah , but try explaining this to these simple minded stupid Digimon fans.

 

[Luigi The President]

That deep breathing looked mega quick, too, maybe she's got some big buffs to make up for those wacky hitboxes I've been hearing about.

Visual buffs, moveset buffs, the 4 Wii Fit Trainer mains are prospering

 

[Alaskalana]

>Drought
>Isabelle was revealed less then a month ago

Wow, that sure is a big drought of information.

That's fair.

I'm just aching for the whole thing to come out. Lol

 

[Crooked Crow]

On the contrary. Speculation is playing with a toy you do not have. Speculation is finding joy and purpose where before there was only the void. Speculation is critical thinking at its most robust.

It is the foundation of Science and Philosophy, and among the greatest tools available to mankind.

Totally woke, bro.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm gonna be 100% honest right now.
Originally I was only getting it because I want Meltan, i'm not down with motion controls and hand holding.
But you might be able to give your starter a really shaggy hair cut that covers it's eyes.
I kinda want a shaggy Pikachu...

I know I keep bashing that game, but half of that is actually me trying to convince myself to not cave in and buy it.

Even with all those backwards design choices they're making, the I'm still enough of a fanboy that even I have a hard time resisting the temptation of flying around Kanto on Charizard-back with an Eevee on my head.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

You... you really think calling somebody a "fanboy" is equivalent to calling them stupid or a ******, or such?

Well...yeah. On the internet, it's generally used as an insult.

 

[Will]

Visual buffs, moveset buffs, the 4 Wii Fit Trainer mains are prospering

I know a guy who unironically mains WFT. He wants it to be top tier so bad

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

You... you really think calling somebody a "fanboy" is equivalent to calling them stupid or a ******, or such?

It's more of an insult but still disrespectful.

'd

 

[Luigi The President]

I know a guy who unironically mains WFT. He wants it to be top tier so bad

As he should. She's the GOAT.
If someone mains WFT I fear them with my life.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

I'm a big ass Skull Kid fanboy and I'm proud of it. I don't know why the term "fanboy" needs to have a negative connotation.

 

[Will]

It's more of an insult but still kinda disrespectful.

How the **** is an insult only kinda disrespectful when that's the whole point of the insult?

 

[papagenos]

I feel 3 uniques and 2-3 Echoes isn't too impossible.

Incineroar, Steve, the SE rep, alongside Ken, Shadow, and maybe Dixie.

Don't know why this is so implausible to some.

I think I just want to keep my expectations low but if we are talking 6 characters

Incineroar/ Waddle Dee/Geno
Ken/Shadow/Dixie

makes a lot of sense to me. it has vergebens characters plus some oddly missing ones (waddle dee/shadow/dixie).

theres other characters that were "hinted at", "missing", or have something going in their favor but they realistically might just be somewhere else in the game, those 6 imo make the most sense as being "playable" where as other "talked-about/hinted at" character might just be else where in the game... isaac might just be back as an assist (sadly) rhythmn heaven could just get a stage, characters like skull kid/black knight/medusa might all be bosses in some kind of one player mode (spirits), shantae could be in as an assist and her company might still be hinting at and happy about that, minecraft could be in the game in some form other than steve? like a stage (if we do have 108 it would make sense) or an assist trophy. elma could also be an assist or sakurai is holding off a 2nd xenoblade rep for rex/pyra as dlc.

then theres plenty of third party characters like rayman or banjo or sora etc... who could all be saved for dlc, same goes for another namco rep heihachi/lloyd etc... same for echo fighter candidates like impa or if characters like isaac or skull kid DONT show up anywhere in the game they might be being held off for dlc.

again i have my expectations super low in case of box theory or close to it, but those 6 with the other likely characters simply filling other rolls in the game makes the most sense to me IF we end up getting like 6 more characters.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Well...yeah. On the internet, it's generally used as an insult.

It's a devout fan who often ignores criticisms of their particular platform because of an inherent bias. It has nothing to do with measuring intelligence, just bias.