Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dukeofdeath5]

Wow guys, when I said food for thought I didn't mean "this is my gospel". I just thought it was an interesting thing that Steve? doesn't quite have that the others do. And that is a motivation.

It's just banter m8, only introducing counter arguments.

But again, I think survival constitutes as Steve's (whom is to be the stand in for the player) motivation. Wanna build a house? a city? kill the ender dragon? build a big o'l obsidian wang? Well you better keep that food meter up and put some torches around cause monsters are gonna come for your supple ass. It's a survival game. It's THE survival game. I think Steve is a decent representative of that genre.

 

[Deleted member]

That Skull Kid is also really low poly.

Like they took the in-game model for the render instead of the actual render artwork.

Like Mario, Pikachu, and VIllager did in the E3 Demo?

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean they went through licencing Monster Hunter for a boss. I imagine it's because they thought MH was well represented by only having a boss fight, just like Minecraft would be well represented with a stage or stage builder tools.

My constant problem with this is that MonHun and Minecraft are two VERY DIFFERENT things licensing-wise.

Capcom crosses over with Nintendo constantly, has always been close with them, and as such the MonHun license is likely much easier to swipe up than Minecraft, owned by one of Nintendo's genuine rivals.

Wow guys, when I said food for thought I didn't mean "this is my gospel". I just thought it was an interesting thing that Steve? doesn't quite have that the others do. And that is a motivation.

Never meant to attack you like that all you know I love you king, just wanted to offer my own counter-argument as a little defense.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Ah yeah, reddit has some new picture leaks they're chewing on from 4chan.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9m37ub/spoilers_more_most_likely_fake_renders_have/


Make of them what you will. The Skull Kid render looks like literally every Skull Kid model ever.

As someone who wants Skull Kid in... that leak is faker than Kim Kardashian's ass.

 

[Chrono.]

Like Mario, Pikachu, and VIllager did in the E3 Demo?

I forgot about that. Later demos fixed that anyway.

But even if the hoax took that into account, there's still a bunch of other weird inconsistencies.

 

[Aurane]

"Here's a clearly fake leak. What do you guys think?"

I think y'all are bored and should find a hobby.

 

[CosmicQuark]

My problem that keeps coming up in my head with Minecraft content and more so Steve is that every single character in Smash has been, just that, a character. Every single franchise represented in Smash has been from character driven games.

Pikmin, Mario, Sonic, Metal Gear, Yoshi, DK, Castlevania, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Splatoon even Duck Hunt and Game & Watch, and so on are all games driven by it's characters, the one exception is maybe ROB and that mother ****** is an exception to a LOT. Minecraft is not a character driven series. Steve is not really a "character" in the sense of the rest of Smash's representation. Steve is moreso an idea than anything else. There is no motive, there is no rhyme or reason to what you're doing in Minecraft thus the charm and characterization of that game falls on the shoulders of the world, the enemies, and animals that inhabit it.

In a sense Minecraft lines up in the way that Tetris, Sim City, Hanenbow, or Nintendogs would. Where the charm is in the surroundings, the stage of you will. Now you might say "why would they go after Minecraft content if they weren't going for a character?" Well that's not easily explained unless you take into account that maybe that's all Sakurai thought the series warranted, or that maybe Sakurai was approached by Mojang, or least likely went for Banjo and for Minecraft content alongside or in its stead after plans fell through. There are infinite possibilities.

I don't necessarily think that Steve is unlikely, but I think it is good to be open to the idea that just because Minecraft sells really well doesn't mean it has to be represented by a character. A stage, maybe even a creeper assist trophy, could work just as well.

Food for thought.

I agree, and it's one of the many reasons why I feel like Minecraft "fits" better as a stage and assist. The problem is, Steve's often compared to the likes of R.O.B, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt. The problem is, all of these characters have something important in common--their history with Nintendo. These characters break the normal rules of what we consider characters precisely because of their significance to Nintendo, and no matter how many guest characters are added, it's still a celebration of Nintendo, ultimately.

 

[Chrono.]

"Here's a clearly fake leak. What do you guys think?"

I think y'all are bored and should find a hobby.

This is my hobby.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah yeah, reddit has some new picture leaks they're chewing on from 4chan.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9m37ub/spoilers_more_most_likely_fake_renders_have/


Make of them what you will. The Skull Kid render looks like literally every Skull Kid model ever.

I guarantee you that this is fake. The renders don't have the Smash style of being overly detailed, they look like they were ripped straight out of their game of origin.

 

[Thinkaman]

Blog Update:

We have 44 weekdays left before release, 45 if we include release day. We are still missing daily updates for:

• 2 new unrevealed characters (Ken + Incineroar)
• 0 new revealed characters
• 22 returning characters
• 0 new stages
• ? returning stages
• 6 new items
• 4 new pokeball pokemon (plus possibly Scizor)
• 6 new assist trophies (plus possibly Gray Fox)

That's 40/45 entries accounted for, before additional returning stages. 4-5 more returning stage entries over the next 2 months would be exactly consistent with the 10 returning stage entries we've seen so far over the last 4 months. The follow multi-character series have not had a returning stage blog entry:

• Mario Kart
• Yoshi
• Kirby
• F-Zero
• Fire Emblem
• Kid Icarus
• Animal Crossing

I expect about half of these to get a returning stage blog entry. It's also reasonably possible that Shadow Moses gets one, just as Summit did.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Came back from watching a batch of episodes of My Hero Academia.

What did I miss?

 

[Koopaul]

there's no backstory, no set up, no rhyme or reason to what you're doing in this world there's no CHARACTER motivation. Only yours. The game is based on what motivates you to play. The same could be said for a Sim City builder

Actually in Sim City you are the Mayor of the town. Your goal is to make the best metropolis ever. To take care of and expand the city.

 

[Shroob]

Blog Update:

We have 44 weekdays left before release, 45 if we include release day. We are still missing daily updates for:

• 2 new unrevealed characters (Ken + Incineroar)
• 0 new revealed characters
• 22 returning characters
• 0 new stages
• ? returning stages
• 6 new items
• 4 new pokeball pokemon (plus possibly Scizor)
• 6 new assist trophies (plus possibly Gray Fox)

That's 40/45 entries accounted for, before additional returning stages. 4-5 more returning stage entries over the next 2 months would be exactly consistent with the 10 returning stage entries we've seen so far over the last 4 months. The follow multi-character series have not had a returning stage blog entry:

• Mario Kart
• Yoshi
• Kirby
• F-Zero
• Fire Emblem
• Kid Icarus
• Animal Crossing

I expect at least half of these to get a returning stage blog entry. It's also reasonably possible that Shadow Moses gets one, just as Summit did.

Putting all your eggs in the box instead of being smart and not giving a ****, huh?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I agree, and it's one of the many reasons why I feel like Minecraft "fits" better as a stage and assist. The problem is, Steve's often compared to the likes of R.O.B, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt. The problem is, all of these characters have something important in common--their history with Nintendo. These characters break the normal rules of what we consider characters precisely because of their significance to Nintendo, and no matter how many guest characters are added, it's still a celebration of Nintendo, ultimately.

If "non-character characters" requires Nintendo history to constitute, and a 3rd Party guest characters don't require Nintendo history at all, then Steve is hitting that fine line in the center.

He has that important characteristic that Snake, Cloud, and Ryu have, being an icon. An extremely recognizable character apart of a franchise that had lasting effects on the industry, despite being the youngest example we'd see. Apart from maybe Richter, every guest character we've gotten have had that aspect, being iconic, and Steve certainly follows that pattern.

Also, this entire argument relies on one major fallacy I'm surprised we haven't gotten past yet.

That there is any real limitation Sakurai is putting on himself when it comes to character inclusion.

If he wants to, if he thinks the character is worth it, would be fun for people, and would bring something new to the game, he'll add the character, despite whatever oddities there are which surround him, like lack of character.

 

[Das Koopa]

For starters, there are numerous alignment issues. Some are subtle, some are obvious, to the point where I assume a white canvas was used and pictures where pasted on (poorly)

Second (and most damning) thing beyond the potential of the Geno render being fake is the blue frame for character selection.

Note the white frames universal to every character, then note the blue frame for selecting Shadow. The blue frame crosses to the RIGHT SIDE next to Dedede, but not on the LEFT SIDE with Sonic.

Yet -

...The blue frame does NOT seep into the white of the frame on the right side in this image, and this is clearly the same leak (If the Geno misalignment didn't give it away)

put it in the trash because it's garbage

 

[osby]

I agree, and it's one of the many reasons why I feel like Minecraft "fits" better as a stage and assist. The problem is, Steve's often compared to the likes of R.O.B, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt. The problem is, all of these characters have something important in common--their history with Nintendo. These characters break the normal rules of what we consider characters precisely because of their significance to Nintendo, and no matter how many guest characters are added, it's still a celebration of Nintendo, ultimately.

*looks at and *

It's almost like guest fighters can break the normal rules, too.

View attachment 168527


For starters, there are numerous alignment issues. Some are subtle, some are obvious, to the point where I assume a white canvas was used and pictures where pasted on (poorly)

Second (and most damning) thing beyond the potential of the Geno render being fake is the blue frame for character selection.

View attachment 168528

Note the white frames universal to every character, then note the blue frame for selecting Shadow. The blue frame crosses to the RIGHT SIDE next to Dedede, but not on the LEFT SIDE with Sonic.

Yet -

View attachment 168529

...The blue frame does NOT seep into the white of the frame on the right side in this image, and this is clearly the same leak (If the Geno misalignment didn't give it away)

put it in the trash because it's garbage

I don't have a smart thing to add, but man, CSS will look amazing in this game.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, I arranged the characters best I could from those images.
And based on what I did, here's the following:

Mii Fighters can't fit in the numbered spot, so it's implying they will be at the end by the Random select.
Three rows with room for Echos. One is obviously supposed to be Ken, but the other two are debatable.

 

[Shroob]

Out of curiosity, I arranged the characters best I could from those images.
And based on what I did, here's the following:

View attachment 168530


Mii Fighters can't fit in the numbered spot, so it's implying they will be at the end by the Random select.
Three rows with room for Echos. One is obviously supposed to be Ken, but the other two are debatable.

I think the fact that the OP didn't deliver on a Ken screenshot when everyone knows he's in the game is a major red flag. Notice not a single one of the renders are really as complex as making one that looks vaguely like the Ken render we've seen would look.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

*looks at and *

It's almost like guest fighters can break the normal rules, too.



I don't have a smart thing to add, but man, CSS will look amazing in this game.

I feel like that’s ignoring the ultimately special reasons both those fighters are in Smash. Bayonetta in no way should be treated like a third party given how Nintendo chose to invest and basically make that franchise a reality. She’s first party in all but rights, and that is a relevant distinction.

Snake is thanks to a friendship between two developers. His return is brought of the Ultimate idea. He doesn’t have a massive Nintendo history, but actually does have an exclusive remake of the first MGS on Gamecube. But again, he got into Smash on the back of the important friendship between Kojima and Sakurai.

I’m not entirely discounting Steve, but I hate seeing these two used as an argument for his inclusion. There is nothing to indicate that Steve makes sense with how we’ve approached guest characters so far, he’d be a completely unique breaking of tradition, to the point where you couldn’t establish a pattern of Sakurai doing things to get to his inclusion. Which is fine, I just don’t think the arguments of the third parties we have now leads to the natural conclusion of Steve. I don’t really care anymore if he’s in or not though.

 

[Aurane]

This is my hobby.

View attachment 168526

That's straight up masochism, fam.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I don’t really doubt sources who clearly have legitimacy. Where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire. Steve is most likely in the game at this point. I have always said that Microsoft is not a company you would approach for rights to a stage or an assist trophy and nothing more. If the character is Steve rather than Banjo, so be it. Banjo will probably be DLC in this case anyway.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Don't even need the misalignments to bury it as fake, that Skull Kid render is shocking by the actual renders' standard, it's just the Smash 4 model with no touchups whatsoever. It's just a lazy fake leak, he could at least have made a proper effort and done some quality control.

 

[Shroob]

Now 4chan is saying that the Steve+Shadow leak is completely different than the Skull Kid one and that the Skull Kid one is the fake one.


I sleep

 

[CosmicQuark]

I don’t really doubt sources who clearly have legitimacy. Where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire. Steve is most likely in the game at this point. I have always said that Microsoft is not a company you would approach for rights to a stage or an assist trophy and nothing more. If the character is Steve rather than Banjo, so be it. Banjo will probably be DLC in this case anyway.

What sources? Verge is not confident, as he has only heard Minecraft content from his main Smash sources. He's only heard of Steve's playability from his other non-Smash sources hearing murmurs--that's he said, they said, they said. Which is why he's only confident in Minecraft content. So trusting Verge, means trusting Minecraft content is in the game (which I do).

The only other source is Hitagi, who revealed Steve by calling Smash a kids game, blurting it out, and then backtracking saying maybe DLC. He has made no predictions regarding Smash that have been shown to be true, and many of his non-Smash leaks--were leaked by Verge beforehand. Maaaaaybe that's enough to give you confidence--but there's a lot of alarm bells that should probably be going off.

 

[Shroob]

I'll give credit though.

The Shadow render actually LOOKS like a model unlike the Agnes' leak's render.

 

[Michele]

Came back from watching a batch of episodes of My Hero Academia.

What did I miss?

You missed the Sword Art Online Season 3 getting a new episode

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Despite the lay out problems of it all I do like the idea of how that fake leak presents the character select screen. I wouldn't mind something that looks like that instead of what the demos have looked like thus far.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

 

[Shroob]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

".....theorize about boxes, blogs, music, or chairs."

.......no chairs.


.......no chairs.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Skins i want for characters

: Metal Mario and Gold Mario
: Metal Luigi and Sliver Luigi
: Old designs in Smash 4 (or Smash Brawl in the case for Wolf)
: Boshi
: Shiny forms (yes ik Charizard had his old shiny as a costume but i want his current one, it looks cool)
: I gone insane, Pink Gold Peach
: Young Lion design from FE Heroes
: Dark Meta Knight
: New Leaf design
: Ms Pac Man
: Splatoon 2 design

 

[osby]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

"...hype irresponsibly."

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

....post fake leaks on Smashboards.

 

[ZephyrZ]

“Friends don’t let friends...”

"...bash someone else's character".

 

[N3ON]

That Skull Kid is quite clearly this existing model.

 

[Michele]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

...wait without whining.

 

[Shroob]

What IS the timeframe for Bighouse tomorrow anyway? Like, how long does it go on for?

 

[Zinith]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

"...have Yoshi indifference."

 

[CosmicQuark]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

Friends don't let friends... grasp at straws... or chairs
Friends don't let friends... take leakers to be 100% fact... or to be actually giving us leaks... as they're actually rumors... (I'll admit, I fail at this a lot as well)
Friends don't let friends... take speculations about video games too seriously (we're all supposed to be having fun, right? Again, a weakness of mine)

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Ok guys, finish this sentence while keeping to the theme of “recent Smash Ultimate speculation”

“Friends don’t let friends...”

"Friends don't let friends ignore the fact that we're literally 2 months away from Ultimate and all our speculation will be over on launch day."

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

View attachment 168527


For starters, there are numerous alignment issues. Some are subtle, some are obvious, to the point where I assume a white canvas was used and pictures where pasted on (poorly)

Second (and most damning) thing beyond the potential of the Geno render being fake is the blue frame for character selection.

View attachment 168528

Note the white frames universal to every character, then note the blue frame for selecting Shadow. The blue frame crosses to the RIGHT SIDE next to Dedede, but not on the LEFT SIDE with Sonic.

Yet -

View attachment 168529

...The blue frame does NOT seep into the white of the frame on the right side in this image, and this is clearly the same leak (If the Geno misalignment didn't give it away)

put it in the trash because it's garbage

Er, you didn't notice that the character select screen was a mock up from the 8.8 Direct? And not near the one that we've seen in the E3 demo and multiple gameplay set ups? Or the missing character names on the select screen? I threw it out the moment I saw it because of all that. Let alone the minute details you just pointed out.