Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

The short of it is: Make them a part of the conversation.

As open-minded and inclusive as many individuals in the Smash community are, it's best to think of the overall community as highly exclusive, where serious discussion is for members only.

If you want your character to become a member, you need to first find a way to get in. It's very important to recognize what this is about. Exclusion from the most insulated parts of the conversation is in no way a mark that a character is bad or even unpopular. Instead, it only means that the collective does not view them as valid desires. Because of this, people will hesitate to publicly support or show support for something that may malign them with their peers. Therefore, it's not only possible, but probable that there are many people who would, as the more jaded folk would say, "jump on the bandwagon" as soon as it became communally acceptable to do so.

So how do you accomplish this?

If, like Skull Kid, you get an extreme shot of speculation fuel in the form the ensemble background in the August Direct, as well as a seeming replacement for your assist trophy, these will serve to convince a large subset of the community that you have a credible chance for inclusion, which will automatically get you in the door through brute force.


However, if you don't have such things going for you? You have work to do. I'll repeat that, because it's important: You have work to do. It will be an uphill battle, and one you will lose if you aren't active. You will face adversity by many people who will simply dismiss you as a rabid fan spouting utter nonsense. You will not convince these people, as they will begin the exchange with no intent to converse or listen. So don't try, they aren't your audience, at least not yet.

You're going to need to gather evidence, create things people can look at, and engage in banter, all to get the idea of your character in their mind. In addition, it's important to be smart about how you promote. Do it too often, and you're back at "rabid fan." Do it too little, and no one will remember you.

You're also going to need to do more than just promote, you're going to have to become part of the conversation. Talk about things that aren't related to your character. Join the community, get your face out there, and build a reputation. Think of it as a sort of currency. If you don't have enough rep-points in a community, you won't be able to spend the necessary amount to introduce something that disrupts the status quo with any hopes of being taken seriously. You can't buy reputation on credit, you have to earn it. As a bit of an optimistic note, if you do this right, you can gain reputation by spending it, so if you get a decent base, you should be alright to push from there. Just try to keep in mind that you can go overboard spending too much at once, else you may find yourself suddenly bankrupt, else in severe debt (IE actively maligned).

Find some people willing to engage in that conversation. Remember that, conversation. As a lone voice can do little. You aren't looking for a stage on which to speak your piece to a passive audience, you're looking to get people talking. Talking when you're around and, eventually, talking when you aren't. In this way, a name becomes more visible, and thus more accepted. Once you're accepted in that fashion, those people on the fence about whether to support, reject, or remain neutral will be put in a position to choose. That's what you're trying to accomplish. That's your end game. You aren't trying to get people to affirm your desire in this case, you're just trying to stuff your foot in the door long enough to earn the "Maybe" you need to be let in.

After that, you'll no longer have any real control over the way that character is pushed for or against. It'll be it's own beast like the others, and it's unlikely anyone will thank or remember either you or your efforts.

That's how.



(Don't mind me, just giving an impassioned, detailed answer to what was most likely a frivolous question.)

But that's HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD!!!

 

[Nap_]

I'd love to have some definite answers, either in or out, either official confirmation or leak/rumor, but I feel like this train will continue until the last possible second.

Relax guys, in about one month we'll know everything about the base game. Then we should face some salt and march to the probably looooooong DLC speculation period.
Oh boy, this gonna be even more reckless.

 

[Deleted member]

I think he's perfect as an echo. Give him a unique up-B like Chrom, a different final smash, and bada bing you got a Sonic echo that pretty much stays true to who Shadow is

Though he could be a semi-clone, just don't know how likely that is

Making him a semi-clone is easy.

Ya just gotta go...

FULL EDGE. Shadow is a Sonic/Bayo/Snake hybrid clone confirmed.

 

[Potato_]

Relax guys, in about one month we'll know everything about the base game. Then we should face some salt and march to the probably looooooong DLC speculation period.
Oh boy, this gonna be even more reckless.

I'm willing to bet the DLC season will be more chill considering we'll have the game already. I know Smash 4's was VERY hectic but now we have most of the big names that were seen as "musts".

how bad is this comment going to backfire on me

 

[Impa4Smash]

Making him a semi-clone is easy.

Ya just gotta go...

FULL EDGE. Shadow is a Sonic/Bayo/Snake hybrid clone confirmed.

Ow.


Real talk though, I don't think he'd work with realistic guns. But I really hope his taunts include "Damn"

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Lucina dresses up as Marth in Halloween
Chrom uses his time to embarrass Lucina with his "Dad jokes"
Robin still enjoys his married life with Lucina (and also behind the lightning storm on Thanksgiving that electrified the food so now Kirby and Yoshi's on the hunt)
Dr Mario gets released from prison in Christmas, only to get sued and put back in prison again
Zelda dresses up as Sheik but in return everyone is debating Sheik's gender
Palutena lights up the Christmas lights which Ganondorf hates
Bowser drowns in lava again
Greninja got a new friend in Halloween
Villager is put in the same prison cell as Dr Mario
oh and Waluigi, still an assist trophy

 

[CannonStreak]

Ow.


Real talk though, I don't think he'd work with realistic guns. But I really hope his taunts include "Damn"

You mean OW the EDGE?

I could see him using the Black Arms weapons from his own game, though, ya know, the ones that shoot lasers. I liked those.

 

[amazonevan19]

Making him a semi-clone is easy.

Ya just gotta go...

FULL EDGE. Shadow is a Sonic/Bayo/Snake hybrid clone confirmed.

CAN YOU SEE ALL OF ME
WALK INTO MY MYSTERY
STEP INSIDE AND HOLD ON FOR DEAR LIFE

DO YOU REMEMBER ME
CAPTURE YOU OR SET YOU FREE
I AM ALL I AM ALL OF ME

seriously shadow as a semi clone just so he gets a badass trailer set to his theme or "All Hail Shadow" would make me the happiest guy around.

 

[Deleted member]

CAN YOU SEE ALL OF ME
WALK INTO MY MYSTERY
STEP INSIDE AND HOLD ON FOR DEAR LIFE

DO YOU REMEMBER ME
CAPTURE YOU OR SET YOU FREE
I AM ALL I AM ALL OF ME

seriously shadow as a semi clone just so he gets a badass trailer set to his theme or "All Hail Shadow" would make me the happiest guy around.

I'd have a pretty hard time not chanting "HERE WE GO BUDDY HERE WE GO BUDDY, HERE WE GO" during the whole thing TBH.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Relax guys, in about one month we'll know everything about the base game. Then we should face some salt and march to the probably looooooong DLC speculation period.
Oh boy, this gonna be even more reckless.

By last possible second, I consider that a November reveal. There's always the incredibly unlikely scenario that B&K are announced for Smash along with a N64 classic with Rare titles this month. But it's much too late for that, and it's most likely Incineroar this month. But it is a good thing that it's only a month to go--one very long excruciating month.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I really don't think we have that much longer to go on this pre-release. Nintendo's marketing strategy is to constantly drop info leading up to a game's release, and then about a month before drop a huge boatload of information for a final marketing push with things like demos and whatnot. Heck, I think Sakurai's comment about "Not expecting us to have trailers all the way up to release" could be interpreted as him simply meaning the reveals are almost done and we're nearing the end.

I think this month is do or die time: the best chance to reveal who's left and talk about Spirits.

But I really hope his taunts include "Damn"

Seeing as the DK Rap can't get away with "Hell" here, I rather doubt it.

 

[Nap_]

I'm willing to bet the DLC season will be more chill considering we'll have the game already. I know Smash 4's was VERY hectic but now we have most of the big names that were seen as "musts".

how bad is this comment going to backfire on me

Well, not in my view. For example, I'm a Dixie supporter, and if she's not in the base game, I'm hoping for the DLC. We know that the base game is not still the final roster, but the final shots can be hard to shallow. There's still a ray of hope for fandoms like the Ashley or Waluigi ones. But after DLC is all done.
Plus, we are avoiding newcomers like Rex-Pyra or Springman in speculation for base game because are recent, but they are for sure in the DLC run. Even less slots.
Woooohoo. This gonna be a blood bath.

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing as the DK Rap can't get away with "Hell" here, I rather doubt it.

Counter argument: Rodin's trophy in Smash 4 mentions the Gates of Hell Bar.

 

[Idon]

I think this month is do or die time: the best chance to reveal who's left and talk about Spirits.



Seeing as the DK Rap can't get away with "Hell" here, I rather doubt it.

There's an easy solution to this

 

[Shroob]

I still fully expect it to be a Direct and not a solo reveal.


It just seems fitting that the smash-centric directs would have been bi-monthly this time, and they'd just dump what they have left to show us while giving us a demo to play with in November.


Gets everything out there before it has a chance to leak in November.

 

[Noipoi]

There's an easy solution to this

If you're a meanie, you go to HFIL.

But i'm a good boy, so i'm going to HFVAFN.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I still fully expect it to be a Direct and not a solo reveal.


It just seems fitting that the smash-centric directs would have been bi-monthly this time, and they'd just dump what they have left to show us while giving us a demo to play with in November.


Gets everything out there before it has a chance to leak in November.

Is there some sort of new direct rumored to be on the way? I've been busy with Ape Escape today.

 

[Shroob]

Is there some sort of new direct rumored to be on the way? I've been busy with Ape Escape today.

Oh buddy, you're like 5 days late to this news.

 

[P.Kat]

Incineroar: Eh I prefer Decidueye but for a gen 7 rep, Incineroar is all right. I just hope he and Ken aren't the last for base. If they aren't, I'll be a lot more amiable to his inclusion. If he's a harbinger of box theory being true then I'll be a bit salty.

As unlikely as its looking, I'm still rooting for Primarina. Yeah yeah, something something no legs. Not a problem, just have her ride a wave or one of her water orbs movement options are not impossible especially if Bowser could move like a tank in Melee. I just think she'd be a interesting choice along with Gardevoir (who still has yet to be disconfirmed as a Pokéball).

At least eat Mr. Wario and not me.

So, aside from that, what would be the most unexpected character you guys think would never get in that would make you freak out if they were to be revealed, big time?

Kat from Gravity Rush.

 

[Potato_]

Well, not in my view. For example, I'm a Dixie supporter, and if she's not in the base game, I'm hoping for the DLC. We know that the base game is not still the final roster, but the final shots can be hard to shallow. There's still a ray of hope for fandoms like the Ashley or Waluigi ones. But after DLC is all done.
Plus, we are avoiding newcomers like Rex-Pyra or Springman in speculation for base game because are recent, but they are for sure in the DLC run. Even less slots.
Woooohoo. This gonna be a blood bath.

Don't lose faith too quickly. Remember the Switch is only a year old at this point. They very well could support Smash with DLC for its entire lifespan if they wanted to.

The fact that the Switch has already sold much more than the Wii U makes me feel like even if Sakurai himself (and let's be honest here, he's going to stay, the guy is extremely passionate about this series) won't be heading it, we'll be getting character dlc for a while.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Incineroar is our next newcomer, how are people feeling about him? I've come to like the idea quite a bit, actually.

I'll be quite pleased. I love the Pokemon. Really fun design and character. Burns with passion, and hey, I love wrestling. Always can use a heel wrestler, which keeps it interesting. It's why Professional Wrestling is fun to watch. The drama!

 

[T3Z3R1]

Relax guys, in about one month we'll know everything about the base game. Then we should face some salt and march to the probably looooooong DLC speculation period.
Oh boy, this gonna be even more reckless.

Yep, and Smash fandom will even turn into salt mine after final reveal.

This way, we will laugh at some people got very salty that they would make the explanation about why [insert character here as their wanted] should be in smash instead of [insert characters here that actually got in smash].

 

[Zinith]

At least eat Mr. Wario and not me.

So, aside from that, what would be the most unexpected character you guys think would never get in that would make you freak out if they were to be revealed, big time?

Mr. Wario seems to be on my side, so he's spared unless he wants to

Anyways, of course the answer to that question is Boshi

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Counter argument: Rodin's trophy in Smash 4 mentions the Gates of Hell Bar.

Point, although Bayonetta's games are M-rated, after all, so that's to be expected.

I still fully expect it to be a Direct and not a solo reveal.


It just seems fitting that the smash-centric directs would have been bi-monthly this time, and they'd just dump what they have left to show us while giving us a demo to play with in November.


Gets everything out there before it has a chance to leak in November.

Fully agree. It's too late to skimp out on anything now, it's only a matter of when they'll dump everything this month.

As unlikely as looking, I'm still rooting for Primarina. Yeah yeah, something something no legs. Not a problem, just have her ride a wave or one of her water orbs movement options are not impossible especially if Bowser could move like a tank in Melee. I just think she'd be a interesting choice along with Gardevoir (who still has yet to be disconfirmed as a Pokéball).

Kat from Gravity Rush.

Primarina would be great. Ideally, we ought to get all three starters (plus Golisopod and Lycanroc), but if she was the only one around, she'd bring enough to the table to make up for it.

 

[T3Z3R1]

At least eat Mr. Wario and not me.

So, aside from that, what would be the most unexpected character you guys think would never get in that would make you freak out if they were to be revealed, big time?

For me, It can be Master Chief or Banjo Koozie. Don't shoot me, I wasn't aware of banjo's existence because I was born in 1999 and now still supporting him.

 

[Deleted member]

So, aside from that, what would be the most unexpected character you guys think would never get in that would make you freak out if they were to be revealed, big time?

Literally all of the characters I want in at this point

 

[AugustusB]

So, aside from that, what would be the most unexpected character you guys think would never get in that would make you freak out if they were to be revealed, big time?

I would cry tears of joy for Banjo & Kazooie. It would feel like an old friend returned home for the first time in years.
This picture was shown not long ago in the Banjo thread and I think it shows just how popular they were in the day.

Spoiler: N64 Spotlight Box

To be in the same light as these icons?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

At least eat Mr. Wario and not me.

So, aside from that, what would be the most unexpected character you guys think would never get in that would make you freak out if they were to be revealed, big time?

Rayman.

Poor ******* got done dirty IMO

The other is Geno. Call me a pessimist but I'm seeing the signs

 

[Idon]

The short of it is: Make them a part of the conversation.

As open-minded and inclusive as many individuals in the Smash community are, it's best to think of the overall community as highly exclusive, where serious discussion is for members only.

If you want your character to become a member, you need to first find a way to get in. It's very important to recognize what this is about. Exclusion from the most insulated parts of the conversation is in no way a mark that a character is bad or even unpopular. Instead, it only means that the collective does not view them as valid desires. Because of this, people will hesitate to publicly support or promote what they feel may malign them with their peers. Therefore, it's not only possible, but probable that there are many people who would, as the more jaded folk would say, "jump on the bandwagon" as soon as it became communally acceptable to do so.

So how do you accomplish this?

If, like Skull Kid, you get an extreme shot of speculation fuel in the form the ensemble background in the August Direct, as well as a seeming replacement for your assist trophy, these will serve to convince a large subset of the community that you have a credible chance for inclusion, which will automatically get you in the door through brute force.


However, if you don't have such things going for you? You have work to do. I'll repeat that, because it's important: You have work to do. It will be an uphill battle, and one you will lose if you aren't active. You will face adversity by many people who will simply dismiss you as a rabid fan spouting utter nonsense. You will not convince these people, as they will begin the exchange with no intent to converse or listen. So don't try, they aren't your audience, at least not yet.

You're going to need to gather evidence, create things people can look at, and engage in banter, all to get the idea of your character in their mind. In addition, it's important to be smart about how you promote. Do it too often, and you're back at "rabid fan." Do it too little, and no one will remember you.

You're also going to need to do more than just promote, you're going to have to become part of the conversation. Talk about things that aren't related to your character. Join the community, get your face out there, and build a reputation. Think of it as a sort of currency. If you don't have enough rep-points in a community, you won't be able to spend the necessary amount to introduce something that disrupts the status quo with any hopes of being taken seriously. You can't buy reputation on credit, you have to earn it. As a bit of an optimistic note, if you do this right, you can gain reputation by spending it, so if you get a decent base, you should be alright to push from there. Just try to keep in mind that you can go overboard spending too much at once, else you may find yourself suddenly bankrupt, else in severe debt (IE actively maligned).

Find some people willing to engage in that conversation. Remember that, conversation. As a lone voice can do little. You aren't looking for a stage on which to speak your piece to a passive audience, you're looking to get people talking. Talking when you're around and, eventually, talking when you aren't. In this way, a name becomes more visible, and thus more accepted. Once you're accepted in that fashion, those people on the fence about whether to support, reject, or remain neutral will be put in a position to choose. That's what you're trying to accomplish. That's your end game. You aren't trying to get people to affirm your desire in this case, you're just trying to stuff your foot in the door long enough to earn the "Maybe" you need to be let in.

After that, you'll no longer have any real control over the way that character is pushed for or against. It'll be it's own beast like the others, and it's unlikely anyone will thank or remember either you or your efforts.

That's how.



(Don't mind me, just giving an impassioned, detailed answer to what was most likely a frivolous question.)

Y'know, I see what you're saying...

But I am one lazy-ass mother-******.

Ah well, with SMTV being possibly 2 or more years away and Smash 6 looking more and more unlikely, I've got plenty of time.

 

[Robertman2]

Y'know, I see what you're saying...

But I am one lazy-*** mother-******.

Ah well, with SMTV being possibly 2 or more years away and Smash 6 looking more and more unlikely, I've got plenty of time.
View attachment 168379

but what if they use a persona character or dante as the smt rep

 

[Pazzo.]

Monkey's Paw: Smash Edition

Make a wish, then twist it!

I'll start:
BANJO AND KAZOOIE ARE IN SMASH!

but...

They have the Nuts and Bolts design.

 

[StormC]

At least eat Mr. Wario and not me.

So, aside from that, what would be the most unexpected character you guys think would never get in that would make you freak out if they were to be revealed, big time?

Dr. Eggman or Ganon for me. They're more or less my "pipe dream" newcomers. Then again, so was at one point...

 

[Deleted member]

Monkey's Paw: Smash Edition

Make a wish, then twist it!

Star Butterfly is Zelda's echo fighter, but it's this version:

 

[Deoxys911]

but what if they use a persona character or dante as the smt rep

Can you imagine the marketing proclaiming "Featuring Dante from the Shin Megami Tensei Series!"? Talk about Ultimate breaking the Internet...

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

I'll be quite pleased. I love the Pokemon. Really fun design and character. Burns with passion, and hey, I love wrestling. Always can use a heel wrestler, which keeps it interesting. It's why Professional Wrestling is fun to watch. The drama!

Vergeben said Incineroar's in the game so i'm taking his words for granted, guy leaked Ridley, Simon, Isabelle, no cuts from Smash 4, Ridley reveal at E3 so i think he's credible at this point

 

[UberMadman]

Monkey's Paw: Smash Edition
s
Make a wish, then twist it!

I'll start:
BANJO AND KAZOOIE ARE IN SMASH!

but...

They have the Nuts and Bolts design.

Ah yes, the method in which Bayonetta fans got their character into the game. Here's mine:

GROVYLE makes it into Smash!

...As in, a regular Grovyle. He has no relation to the Mystery Dungeon series whatsoever, and has a relatively boring moveset and personality as a result.

 

[Idon]

but what if they use a persona character or dante as the smt rep

Well then I QUIT. SMT'S DEAD AND PERSONA KILLED IT.

Look at him.
That smug face,
Those flowing locks,
The perfect eyes framed by those shining glasses
His dozens of friends and flock of women
And the ENDLESS SPIN-OFF MATERIAL.

But no seriously, it's fine. I still like Persona as well, I just don't find anything to talk about in regards to it that hasn't already been said. Other than "X is best girl" of course.

Just means I'm going to move to plan B of pushing for a Megaten style fighter.

 

[CannonStreak]

Can you imagine the marketing proclaiming "Featuring Dante from the Shin Megami Tensei Series!"? Talk about Ultimate breaking the Internet...

Add "And Knuckles" to the end of that and you may be onto something.

 

[Robertman2]

Well then I QUIT. SMT'S DEAD AND PERSONA KILLED IT.
View attachment 168380

Look at him.
That smug face,
Those flowing locks,
The perfect eyes framed by those shining glasses
His dozens of friends and flock of women
And the endless spin-off material.
View attachment 168384

But no seriously, it's fine. I still like Persona as well, I just don't find anything to talk about in regards to it that hasn't already been said. Other than "X is best girl" of course.
Just means I'm going to move to plan B of a Megaten style fighter.

x isn't the best girl
zero is

but yeah i understand where you're coming from

I'd be hyped for a Persona or mainline character
just more hyped for joker
also you got the artist who made that

 

[Zinith]

Monkey's Paw: Smash Edition

Make a wish, then twist it!

Boshi is in

But only in appearance. There's no personality or gameplay differences from Yoshi. He doesn't even change sounds...