Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Monkey's Paw: Smash Edition

Make a wish, then twist it!

My boys Incineroar and Geno are in.

but...

Incineroar's moveset isn't based around his unique wrestler personality, he's just big generic fire man.
And Geno doesn't bring any cool Mario rpg remixes or assist trophies with him, it's just him and the Forest Maze song.

 

[AugustusB]

Last time the Nintendo World Store had a private event it was totally unrelated to a Direct or any reveal, and I wish I could remember what it was for so I could stop this 72 hrs business from spreading, but it escapes me. :/

I doubt it is anything Smash related either. I just thought how funny a coincidence this was.
Was it for a limited edition for a game?

 

[Aurane]

Til Bill actually is teasing smash content.

 

[Jdaster64]

Nintendo NYC private events are nothing out of the ordinary (and never Direct-related, those are always publically viewable); I wouldn't read into it.

 

[Dee Dude]

I dunno, I was massively into Pikmin during the Brawl days so Olimar hyped me personally lol or Xenoblade fans had Shulk on the top of their request wishlist during Smash 4.

But yeah, people need to stop acting like “final hype reveals” are a thing when they never were, it doesn’t matter who it is, the last character revealed is the last character revealed.

Sakurai could casually reveal Banjo, Geno, or Issac mid way in a typical Nintendo Direct if he wanted to.

 

[N3ON]

I doubt it is anything Smash related either. I just thought how funny a coincidence this was.
Was it for a limited edition for a game?

I honestly can't remember, but I don't think it was tied to any reveal at all. It might've been demoing some upcoming embargoed games to the press.

 

[Noipoi]

Til Bill actually is teasing smash content.

Til Bill wants to lose his job. Again.

 

[kylexv]

With stuff pointing to a character reveal soon:

• Singular Character Trailer
  • Hype Level: ██████████
  • Likeliness: ██████████
• Smash Direct
  • Hype Level: ██████████
  • Likeliness: ██████████

 

[RandomAce]

I feel that people are making the statement a little too broad when it comes to “hype levels”.

For instance, let’s say Geno and Isaac are the last ones. They wouldn’t be well known to the casual fan base, but the hardcore fanbase will go crazy with them, even if they’re highly popular during the ballot, it only reach 1.8 million, about a sixth of the people who bought the Smash 4. The hype for the general audience is that Everyone is here, while the more hardcore fans are still pushing for their less known favorites.

That’s why I get a little agitated when people get Shulk in the mix. Shulk wasn’t that hype to the more general audience who may not have known him, but I feel that it’s dismissing the fact that the more hardcore fans (i.e. here) definitely were and they were supporting for his inclusion. Sakurai even said that the reason Shulk got added was because he had a large amount of support from Japan at the time.

A similar thing is the case for Isaac, Geno. They aren’t well known to the general audience, but definitely are pushed by the hardcore fans, and thus hype to them. Some characters like Elma, and a Rhythm Heaven character also have a lot fans, the former having a lot of support recently.

Are they less hype than King K. Rool and Ridley. Maybe Isaac and Geno are on the same level, but otherwise, yeah I’m not going to deny that. But there are potential last reveals that aren’t rock bottom than what people seem to make them out to be. Even the Sun and Moon Pokémon, either be it Decidueye, Incineroar, or Lycanroc have a lot of fans for that would be stoked for them as well.

Not to mention the fact that the team are on a more tight schedule than last time to reveal content, something like this can very well happen.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

Monkey's Paw: Smash Edition

Make a wish, then twist it!

KOS-MOS is in.

However, she is based on Xenosaga Episode II's combat system, and is completely unable to combo without first performing 3 full, uninteruppted taunts to build up Stock Points.

(seriously, who thought that was a good idea?)

 

[Aurane]

Til Bill wants to lose his job. Again.

Hey you never know.

 

[Jetsurge]

Til Bill wants to lose his job. Again.

He's talking about an asteroid not Smash.

 

[Idon]

Til Bill wants to lose his job. Again.

He can't afford to get fired.

He's gotta satisfy is donut addiction somewhere.

 

[Noipoi]

He's talking about an asteroid not Smash.

I know that, I was joking mate.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I was rewatching some direct footage and I noticed that Sakurai blinked. Do you guys think he could have been subtly hinting at something with that?

Personally believe it could be a clue that our next newcomer is going to have eyes. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that every new newcomer is going to have eyes or some way of seeing their opponent. In fact, it seems to be a trend with all of our previously revealed newcomers as well except maybe Dark Samus (she's a weird case).

I'm going to call it the Eye Theory.

 

[N3ON]

I feel that people are making the statement a little too broad when it comes to “hype levels”.

For instance, let’s say Geno and Isaac are the last ones. They wouldn’t be well known to the casual fan base, but the hardcore fanbase will go crazy with them, even if they’re highly popular during the ballot, it only reach 1.8 million, about a sixth of the people who bought the Smash 4. The hype for the general audience is that Everyone is here, while the more hardcore fans are still pushing for their less known favorites.

That’s why I get a little agitated when people get Shulk in the mix. Shulk wasn’t that hype to the more general audience who may not have known him, but I feel that it’s dismissing the fact that the more hardcore fans (i.e. here) definitely were and they were supporting for his inclusion. Sakurai even said that the reason Shulk got added was because he had a large amount of support from Japan at the time.

A similar thing is the case for Isaac, Geno. They aren’t well known to the general audience, but definitely are pushed by the hardcore fans, and thus hype to them. Some characters like Elma, and a Rhythm Heaven character also have a lot fans, the former having a lot of support recently.

Are they less hype than King K. Rool and Ridley. Maybe Isaac and Geno are on the same level, but otherwise, yeah I’m not going to deny that. But there are potential last reveals that aren’t rock bottom than what people seem to make them out to be. Even the Sun and Moon Pokémon, either be it Decidueye, Incineroar, or Lycanroc have a lot of fans for that would be stoked for them as well.

Not to mention the fact that the team are on a more tight schedule than last time to reveal content, something like this can very well happen.

People aren't saying the last reveals aren't hype, they're just saying they're less hype because Smash always front-loads its reveals. Probably because the biggest names are the ones used most in promotion, so they're likelier to leak, so you get them out earlier. Not always, but generally.

It's no coincidence the newcomers on the front of the box, aka those considered the biggest draw towards certain branches of consumers, were first revealed. Excluding third-parties, which are never on the cover, probably for additional licensing cost-related reasons.

But I agree that Isaac and Geno, while extolled as heavy hitters, would actually fit the bill for final reveals, as they are just very popular among a very narrow, very insulated portion of the audience. In general their cache is pretty limited, and there is a bit of a double standard. Sort of like Shulk.

 

[AugustusB]

I was rewatching some direct footage and I noticed that Sakurai blinked. Do you guys think he could have been subtly hinting at something with that?

Personally believe it could be a clue that our next newcomer is going to have eyes. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that every new newcomer is going to have eyes or some way of seeing their opponent. In fact, it seems to be a trend with all of our previously revealed newcomers as well except maybe Dark Samus (she's a weird case).

I'm going to call it the Eye Theory.

Eye theory. He blinked...Guys. Sakurai is doing series first and I think this time he not only is representing video game characters....
But TABLETOP CHARACTERS!

A Beholder from Dungeons and Dragons for SMASH!!!

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Dixie is the only glaring omission in the current roster. I think she'll get in as a Diddy echo

I honestly not sure about her making the base game as much as I want her, unless they can prove me(and several other of her supports had mentioned this) I don't think it's truly possible for her to emulate Dk's up b which might require new animations to fit her model.

Plus after Isabelle it would be kinda hypocritical to address the characteristically differences Dixie has from Diddy and consideration how many were hurt by Dark Samus' treatment it hurt Dixie even more since she never played exactly like Diddy and her ponytail shouldn't be ignored.

I could say that maybe one of the characters Verg might have missed but I have might doubts about that, it's a more risky route but her be possible as a future dlc wouldn't be bad cause it might potentially have her as a semi clone like Isabelle/Wolf instead.

 

[Pazzo.]

Box Theory is Correct...

But it's Wimpod and Dan Hibiki.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Box Theory is Correct...

But it's Wimpod and Dan Hibiki.

Still better than Ken and Incineroar

 

[Noipoi]

Box Theory is Correct...

But it's Wimpod and Dan Hibiki.

I wouldn't even be mad, Wimpod is the best.

Look at him go!

 

[Luigi The President]

Dixie is the only glaring omission in the current roster. I think she'll get in as a Diddy echo

Saying Dixie is the ONLY GLARING omission is a VERY strong take.
She should be in, but let's not say she's the only one glaringly left.

 

[Robertman2]

Saying Dixie is the ONLY GLARING omission is a VERY strong take.
She should be in, but let's not say she's the only one glaringly left.

Her and Waluigi. Maybe Bandana Dee and Rex/Pyra. Outside of them? The roster is near perfect when it comes to first party rep

 

[Luigi The President]

Her and Waluigi. Maybe Bandana Dee and Rex/Pyra. Outside of them? The roster is near perfect when it comes to first party rep

In what world do Rex/Pyra and/or Waluigi come before Isaac, Paper Mario, and perhaps even Chibi-Robo
Bandana Dee yeah he's an omission I'd be fine considering glaring.

I agree though. It's pretty near-perfect with first party rep. The only big missing ones are like 3 characters who'd represent unrepresented series and a few others, mostly supporting.

 

[Idon]

In what world do Rex/Pyra and/or Waluigi come before Isaac, Paper Mario, and perhaps even Chibi-Robo
Bandana Dee yeah he's an omission I'd be fine considering glaring.

His world.

Everyone has their own little internal world-a secret garden only they can enter. Each world follows its own internal logic- individuality. And the logic of one world means nothing in another... Understanding other people isn’t hard, Neku.

It’s impossible.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We're still missing Toad, a pretty huge Nintendo All-Star. Waluigi is up there too. Isaac is... a bit more niche. Rex/Pyra definitely aren't remotely in that category of all-stars. Chibi-Robo is... niche too. Paper Mario is kind of hard to say. Probably about Waluigi's level at this point. Highly popular character with tons of games to his name, but seems to not have as vocal of a fanbase, so the demand might not be as much as we want it to be. Bandanna Waddle Dee is up there, though still on a lower scale than the main trio. He's almost there at this point. It feels like he's just about reached all-star level. He's not as recognizable or promotable as he could be. Even Waluigi has that going for him, a good average look on a current Nintendo All-Star.

 

[AugustusB]

I wouldn't even be mad, Wimpod is the best.
View attachment 168394
Look at him go!

Look at him skitter about! Soon you will be a mighty Golisopod.

 

[Chrono.]

In what world do Rex/Pyra and/or Waluigi come before Isaac, Paper Mario, and perhaps even Chibi-Robo
Bandana Dee yeah he's an omission I'd be fine considering glaring.

I agree though. It's pretty near-perfect with first party rep. The only big missing ones are like 3 characters who'd represent unrepresented series and a few others, mostly supporting.

I mean if we're talking niche, Chibi-Robo is borderline Saki-tier.

 

[Luigi The President]

We're still missing Toad, a pretty huge Nintendo All-Star. Waluigi is up there too. Isaac is... a bit more niche. Rex/Pyra definitely aren't remotely in that category of all-stars. Chibi-Robo is... niche too. Paper Mario is kind of hard to say. Probably about Waluigi's level at this point. Highly popular character with tons of games to his name, but seems to not have as vocal of a fanbase, so the demand might not be as much as we want it to be. Bandanna Waddle Dee is up there, though still on a lower scale than the main trio. He's almost there at this point. It feels like he's just about reached all-star level. He's not as recognizable or promotable as he could be. Even Waluigi has that going for him, a good average look on a current Nintendo All-Star.

Paper Mario's definitely above Waluigi imo.
Headlines over 5 games at this point.

His fanbase is still out there. Though it's dwindled.

IMO it's more that Golden Sun and Chibi-Robo are perhaps the biggest Nintendo series who have yet to get a character.
Bandana Dee is kinda near all-star though he's definitely just supporting in the end sadly.

Rex/Pyra ain't even close

I mean if we're talking niche, Chibi-Robo is borderline Saki-tier.

Nahhh

Chibi's had a presence since GameCube.
He doesn't have a very vocal fanbase but he's decently well-known. Pretty far above Saki from what I've seen.

 

[StormC]

In what world do Rex/Pyra and/or Waluigi come before Isaac, Paper Mario, and perhaps even Chibi-Robo
Bandana Dee yeah he's an omission I'd be fine considering glaring.

I agree though. It's pretty near-perfect with first party rep. The only big missing ones are like 3 characters who'd represent unrepresented series and a few others, mostly supporting.

How is Chibi-Robo essential? His games are niche and his last one flopped. There isn't even a huge fanbase rallying for him like Isaac does.

 

[Idon]

Y'know, I'm hearing no one mention Lyn and I can't help but feel that's kinda sad.

 

[Luigi The President]

How is Chibi-Robo essential? His games are niche and his last one flopped. There isn't even a huge fanbase rallying for him like Isaac does.

"perhaps even" Being the key here. I'm not even certain on it. But I do feel having a 2nd Xenoblade rep is less "essential" than a brand new first party series rep.

 

[N3ON]

I mean if we're talking niche, Chibi-Robo is borderline Saki-tier.

Nahhhh

He's still the eponymous character of a series which has received multiple worldwide titles, it's just that none(?) of those titles made much of a splash.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Paper Mario's definitely above Waluigi imo.
Headlines over 5 games at this point.

You're going to really hate me for saying this but...he's another Mario.

I'm not saying he can't or won't be unique. I'm not saying that he'd be a bad character at all or doesn't "deserve" to be included, but a lot of people - myself included - would find Waluigi to be more exciting because he's a recurring character who's not already present in some form.

Not that that stopped Toon Link.

 

[RandomAce]

Paper Mario's definitely above Waluigi imo.
Headlines over 5 games at this point.

His fanbase is still out there. Though it's dwindled.

IMO it's more that Golden Sun and Chibi-Robo are perhaps the biggest Nintendo series who have yet to get a character.
Bandana Dee is kinda near all-star though he's definitely just supporting in the end sadly.

Rex/Pyra ain't even close


Nahhh

Chibi's had a presence since GameCube.
He doesn't have a very vocal fanbase but he's decently well-known. Pretty far above Saki from what I've seen.

*Cries in Rhythm Heaven*

Sadly, it’s Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven that are the biggest series not yet in Smash. Rhythm Heaven is an ongoing series that has seen forms of success and popularity, more so in Japan. Golden Sun is currently in hiatus due to unfortunate circumstances from Camelot, however, it was very successful and has a lot popularity and demand to return, not to mention that Isaac is a very popular character for Smash.

Chibi Robo unfortunately doesn’t have either as much of a bummer that it is.

 

[osby]

Can we agree on it's getting harder to decide who is an all-star? I'd say four unique characters we got were (plus Daisy and maaaaaybe Chrom) but it's not going to be that clear-cut from now on.

 

[Luigi The President]

You're going to really hate me for saying this but...he's another Mario.

I'm not saying he can't or won't be unique. I'm not saying that he'd be a bad character at all or doesn't "deserve" to be included, but a lot of people - myself included - would find Waluigi to be more exciting because he's a recurring character who's not already present in some form.

Not that that stopped Toon Link.

Not really about that imo. I'm discussing more the "prestige" if that makes sense.
Waluigi's considered important enough to...be cut from Mario Kart 7. Believe me; I adore Waluigi. But I feel Paper Mario's got some reputation on his side above the unfortunate meme factor a lot of Waluigi has.

But I totally get what you're saying.

*Cries in Rhythm Heaven*

Oh you said, IMO. However, it’s Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven that are the biggest series not yet in Smash. Rhythm Heaven is an ongoing series that has seen some forms of succes and popularity, more so in Japan. Golden Sun is currently in hiatus due to unfortunate circumstances from Camelot, however, it was very successful and has a lot popularity and demand to return, not to mention that Isaac is a very popular character for Smash.

Chibi Robo unfortunately doesn’t have either as much of a bummer that it.

Oh you're right totally forgot about Rhythm Heaven. Yep, that's above Chibi. I feel Chibi would come up third.

 

[Zinith]

MY All-Star has been in from the beginning, so argue all ya want

 

[osby]

You're going to really hate me for saying this but...he's another Mario.

I'm not saying he can't or won't be unique. I'm not saying that he'd be a bad character at all or doesn't "deserve" to be included, but a lot of people - myself included - would find Waluigi to be more exciting because he's a recurring character who's not already present in some form.

Not that that stopped Toon Link.

Toon Link and Paper Mario are recurring characters.

MY All-Star has been in from the beginning, so argue all ya want

Zinith, we have this thing called sympathy...

 

[Zinith]

Zinith, we have this thing called sympathy...

Is that a fruit? My boi likes those...