Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

MY All-Star has been in from the beginning, so argue all ya want

Just a Casual Reminder from ol' Zin that, yes, he's still in love with the dinosaur

 

[Shroob]

Outside of Echoes and 3rd party reveals, I don't expect a single non-3rd party newcomer to be considered an 'all-star' at this point.


Incineroar, as much as I love the big lug, isn't an 'all-star', he's a Pokemon, which gets special treatment because >Pokemon.... and really, besides Rhythm Heaven, newer installments of Xenoblade and ARMs, there just aren't many "BIG" Nintendo series left.


Spring Man/Ribbon Girl, Rex+Pyra OR Elma and a RH rep I'd consider "Nintendo-All Stars" by proxy, but besides a few more supporting characters to existing franchises, like Bandanna Dee or................... Dixie, yeah, Dixie works.


I just don't think there's a whole hell of a lot "Nintendo" characters left.

 

[SonicMario]

MY All-Star has been in from the beginning, so argue all ya want

"Somebody once told me..."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're going to really hate me for saying this but...he's another Mario.

I'm not saying he can't or won't be unique. I'm not saying that he'd be a bad character at all or doesn't "deserve" to be included, but a lot of people - myself included - would find Waluigi to be more exciting because he's a recurring character who's not already present in some form.

Not that that stopped Toon Link.

Toon Link was pretty much an updated Young Link. All of the characters got their GameCube designs. So it's not really a good comparison. It'd be better to say the fact we got 3 Links now, but that only supports the idea of 3 Marios anyway.

However, it is true that him being another form of Mario does not help for a lot of people.

Paper Mario's definitely above Waluigi imo.
Headlines over 5 games at this point.

His fanbase is still out there. Though it's dwindled.

IMO it's more that Golden Sun and Chibi-Robo are perhaps the biggest Nintendo series who have yet to get a character.
Bandana Dee is kinda near all-star though he's definitely just supporting in the end sadly.

The problem is Paper Mario, while great, isn't a character who is nearly everywhere to the same degree. Waluigi is a bigger character right now, but I'm sure it would be the opposite if the last two Paper Mario games were as good as the first three. It's not just about having their own games. There's more to it than that. Only one has an amiibo. Only one is in over double the games as the other. Paper Mario being a main character is the big thing going for him. Waluigi is overall more recognizable, which gives him an edge as an all-star. They're easily on similar levels, though. Waluigi just inches him out a bit due to being more recognizable, really. I mean, you have to look at who is actually in Smash gameplay-wise as well. It isn't Paper Mario. He's never been more than a trophy. Waluigi is one of the many characters who are basically "notable but not playable so they have an AT role, which is still a pretty big role overall".

I do want Paper Mario playable, for the record. But Waluigi still is currently bigger(again, not by much). I think that'll change when Paper Mario gets his groove back and starts appearing outside of his own series quite a lot. The number of appearances does help the recognizability factor, after all.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think Banjo has a great chance at the base roster.... even taking leaks into account, Vergeben didnt know about or so he doesn't know everything.

There could easily be 1 or 2 character's none echo who could show up in the final reveals. I bet Banjo... even IF the Minecraft content is in fact Steve... I still think Banjo can be there. He'd be a great last surprise reveal.

Incinaroar
Ken
Dixie
Shadow
Geno
Steve
Banjo

That would be 4 final unique fighters and 3 echoes to finish off the base roster, I can see it..

Yeah, I would say if any company could potentially get two characters in at once, it would be Microsoft--if you're going to work with a "rival" company, you might as well get everything while you can (this is completely ignoring all the legal hurdles and money that would be involved, for the sake of a hypothetical). That being said, we're already at the point where we're forced to get our expectations as low as possible, with the time we have left, but it's technically possible, and I'd be fine with them both coming in simultaneously despite how unlikely I consider it to be. Maybe even a dual reveal trailer.

However, when next year comes and if Microsoft is able to win people back to Xbox with whatever new generation stuff they have, and they start climbing back up again (even if you think it's unlikely, Sony/Microsoft's hubris have flipped each new generation so far)--I don't think they'll be as welcoming to talk to Nintendo at that point. Just a hunch.

He's talking about an asteroid not Smash.

Well, asteroids smash so... *puts thinking cap on*

 

[PeridotGX]

Dixie is the only glaring omission in the current roster. I think she'll get in as a Diddy echo

We still don't have Kamek and Toad.

 

[Noipoi]

We still don't have Kamek and Toad.

I agree with Toad, but I think Kamek is perfect assist Trophy material.

 

[Idon]

cough
5 Heroes Alts
COUGH
First place in Choose Your Legends poll
COUGH COUGH
First international Lord.
COUGH COUGH COUGH
Still a well-known a decade and a half later.

 

[Luigi The President]

cough
5 Heroes Alts
COUGH
First place in Choose Your Legends poll
COUGH COUGH
First international Lord.
COUGH COUGH COUGH
Still a well-known a decade and a half later.

Simply can't bring myself to say another unique Fire Emblem rep is anywhere near essential Idon my friend and I say that with kindness

 

[Shroob]

cough
5 Heroes Alts
COUGH
First place in Choose Your Legends poll
COUGH COUGH
First international Lord.
COUGH COUGH COUGH
Still a well-known a decade and a half later.

And still an assist trophy.

 

[UberMadman]

First international Lord.
COUGH COUGH COUGH

Eliwood's already in the game, dude.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It'd be better to say the fact we got 3 Links now, but that only supports the idea of 3 Marios anyway.

Well that's the reason I brought up Toon Link anyway. I could totally see Paper Mario getting in before Waluigi. But I could also see the reverse where Waluigi gets in first.

In fact, I actually think Paper Mario is (obviously) more likely right now even as DLC because Waluigi's trophy shows that Sakurai still doesn't have much interest in making him playable for the time being.

 

[Idon]

Eliwood's already in the game, dude.

No joke, I would be 3000% happier with Eliwood. Imagine the RANGE BUFF
He'd have to get rid of his horse though...

And still an assist trophy.

Hey, I don't see you talking about Toad still getting punched in the face for Peach.

Simply can't bring myself to say another unique Fire Emblem rep is anywhere near essential Idon my friend and I say that with kindness

It's not about the amount.
It's about the who.

 

[Luigi The President]

No joke, I would be 3000% happier with Eliwood. Imagine the RANGE BUFF
He'd have to get rid of his horse though...

Hey, I don't see you talking about Toad still getting punched in the face for Peach.

It's not about the amount.
It's about the who.

Nah chief it's still about the amount imo

Absolutely ridiculous to get hypothetically get Lyn before Isaac or a Rhythm Heaven rep though I understand that's probably not what you meant.

Lyn's popular yeah but I'm very hesitant to name her as an all-star.

 

[Chrono.]

Nahhhh

He's still the eponymous character of a series which has received multiple worldwide titles, it's just that none(?) of those titles made much of a splash.

I get that, maybe it was bit extreme to say he's Saki-tier, but I still wouldn't call him essential by any stretch.

The franchise itself never really took off and the producer (or director?) pretty much had to come out and say that Zip Lash had to do well otherwise that was it and the game ended up being a bust, both commercially and critically. A lot of this lends me to feel Chibi is on the lower totem pole of Nintendo characters right now.

 

[Deoxys911]

Outside of Echoes and 3rd party reveals, I don't expect a single non-3rd party newcomer to be considered an 'all-star' at this point.


Incineroar, as much as I love the big lug, isn't an 'all-star', he's a Pokemon, which gets special treatment because >Pokemon.... and really, besides Rhythm Heaven, newer installments of Xenoblade and ARMs, there just aren't many "BIG" Nintendo series left.


Spring Man/Ribbon Girl, Rex+Pyra OR Elma and a RH rep I'd consider "Nintendo-All Stars" by proxy, but besides a few more supporting characters to existing franchises, like Bandanna Dee or................... Dixie, yeah, Dixie works.


I just don't think there's a whole hell of a lot "Nintendo" characters left.

I guess somebody doesn't like adventure...

 

[Koopaul]

*Cries in Rhythm Heaven*

Sadly, it’s Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven that are the biggest series not yet in Smash.

Hardly. Big Brain Academy, Excitebike, and even Nintendo Land have sold better than those series.

Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven have a very passionate following and they do quite well. But they are still pretty niche. Let's face it. We're at the C-Teir Nintendo series now. Not that that's a problem. I'd love it if those games got more love.

 

[Shroob]

I guess somebody doesn't like adventure...
View attachment 168397

Hey, Toad's already in.



But really, I'd have taken Toad over Daisy personally, I was just aiming more towards characters who actually lack representation in Smash.

 

[PeridotGX]

I agree with Toad, but I think Kamek is perfect assist Trophy material.

He could and should be playable. We don't have a traditional Spellcaster yet, and he could also summon enemies. Not to mention the fact that is the only member of the Original 8 without an antagonist.

 

[Luigi The President]

He could and should be playable. We don't have a traditional Spellcaster yet, and he could also summon enemies. Not to mention the fact that is the only member of the Original 8 without an antagonist.

Not gonna lie I hate the whole summoning concept for most character so much.

Just tends to make them overly-gimmicky and cluttery.

I like Kamek though. He's not an all-star, but I'd still like to see him in the game.

 

[Flyboy]

KOS-MOS is in.

However, she is based on Xenosaga Episode II's combat system, and is completely unable to combo without first performing 3 full, uninteruppted taunts to build up Stock Points.

(seriously, who thought that was a good idea?)

This physically hurt me

 

[N3ON]

It's not about the amount.
It's about the who.

I don't need to fight.
To prove I'm right.
I don't need to be forgiven.

Don't cry.
Don't raise your eye.
It's only teenage wasteland.

 

[Hinata]

So, I was rewatching Simon's reveal trailer, and it reminded me. I came up with a fun challenge for Simon/Richter mains to try out when the game releases.

The Classic Castlevania Challenge:

Play Simon or Richter, and hold yourself to these limitations:

• No running
• Only a single jump
• The only moves you can use to attack are forward smash and forward air (without angling)
• Only a single special move (except the uppercut, which you're not allowed to use at all) of your choosing
• For extra difficulty, limit the number of times you can use the special move you choose (to mimic the heart system from Castlevania)

 

[Shroob]

Anyway, my prediction for next week:


We have until next Wednesday to hear about a Direct/Reveal. If we don't hear about one by Wednesday, we're not going to get anything.


The last time we got a Smash announcement not tied to a General Direct, the news came a few days in advance(Sunday iirc), so we should theoretically expect something by Sunday/Monday.


If we hear something, then the Direct will come on the 10th or 11th.


If it's on the 11th, I fully expect people will take whatever the 10th's Song is to expect who the next newcomer is, and be very disappointed when it doesn't come to pass.





Or, it could just be no one at all. We could very well be waiting for awhile.

Despite the BIG red flags that got held up for us to see, without an official confirmation, it's wayyy too early to put all your chips in the basket of "Reveal next week".




If it DOES come:


Direct on the 11th, the 10th's music will have nothing to do with the character(s) shown off, despite how hard people theorize. If it's a Direct, it WILL be the final one before launch.

 

[Idon]

I don't need to fight.
To prove I'm right.
I don't need to be forgiven.

Don't cry.
Don't raise your eye.
It's only teenage wasteland.

Calm down Roger Daltrey

 

[osby]

So, I was rewatching Simon's reveal trailer, and it reminded me. I came up with a fun challenge for Simon/Richter mains to try out when the game releases.

The Classic Castlevania Challenge:

Play Simon or Richter, and hold yourself to these limitations:

• No running
• Only a single jump
• The only moves you can use to attack are forward smash and forward air (without angling)
• Only a single special move (except the uppercut, which you're not allowed to use at all) of your choosing
• For extra difficulty, limit the number of times you can use the special move you choose (to mimic the heart system from Castlevania)

Watch me trying to do this and then start spamming projectiles/down-air after twenty seconds.

 

[Flyboy]

Until Travis Touchdown is in Smash Sakurai is a coward and a fool. Give SUDA51 what he wants!

 

[Deleted member]

And still an assist trophy.

And there she will stay.

 

[Idon]

Until Travis Touchdown is in Smash Sakurai is a coward and a fool. Give SUDA51 what he wants!

As soon as we get No More Heroes 3.

(And I aint talking about Travis Strikes Back)

 

[Noipoi]

Anyway, my prediction for next week:


We have until next Wednesday to hear about a Direct/Reveal. If we don't hear about one by Wednesday, we're not going to get anything.


The last time we got a Smash announcement not tied to a General Direct, the news came a few days in advance(Sunday iirc), so we should theoretically expect something by Sunday/Monday.


If we hear something, then the Direct will come on the 10th or 11th.


If it's on the 11th, I fully expect people will take whatever the 10th's Song is to expect who the next newcomer is, and be very disappointed when it doesn't come to pass.





Or, it could just be no one at all. We could very well be waiting for awhile.

Despite the BIG red flags that got held up for us to see, without an official confirmation, it's wayyy too early to put all your chips in the basket of "Reveal next week".




If it DOES come:


Direct on the 11th, the 10th's music will have nothing to do with the character(s) shown off, despite how hard people theorize. If it's a Direct, it WILL be the final one before launch.

A direct on the 11th?
What a lovely birthday gift.

 

[UberMadman]

By the way, since we are talking about Fire Emblem characters and Smash, I think that if we do get a non-echo newcomer for Fire Emblem as DLC, I think it should be Edelgard from the upcoming Fire Emblem Switch title. Why her over any other characters? Two words:

AXE LORD.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And there she will stay.

And as will Waluigi until he stars in a main game rather then spin-offs.

 

[Luigi The President]

By the way, since we are talking about Fire Emblem characters and Smash, I think that if we do get a non-echo newcomer for Fire Emblem as DLC, I think it should be Edelgard from the upcoming Fire Emblem Switch title. Why her over any other characters? Two words:

AXE LORD.

Hector fans on watch

 

[N3ON]

So, I was rewatching Simon's reveal trailer, and it reminded me. I came up with a fun challenge for Simon/Richter mains to try out when the game releases.

The Classic Castlevania Challenge:

Play Simon or Richter, and hold yourself to these limitations:

• No running
• Only a single jump
• The only moves you can use to attack are forward smash and forward air (without angling)
• Only a single special move (except the uppercut, which you're not allowed to use at all) of your choosing
• For extra difficulty, limit the number of times you can use the special move you choose (to mimic the heart system from Castlevania)

Ah yes very similar to the ever-popular mode of Single-Button Smash.

Calm down Roger Daltrey

 

[PsySmasher]

If Incineroar is our next newcomer, how are people feeling about him? I've come to like the idea quite a bit, actually.

I have many more Pokemon that I'd much rather have than Incineroar.

However, I would be fine with this addition under 3 conditions:
1. Incineroar's moveset looks interesting/cool
2. Its personality shines through that moveset
3. He's not the last character as the box theory suggests

Nah chief it's still about the amount imo

Absolutely ridiculous to get hypothetically get Lyn before Isaac or a Rhythm Heaven rep though I understand that's probably not what you meant.

Lyn's popular yeah but I'm very hesitant to name her as an all-star.

In terms of Fire Emblem, Lyn is the most popular non-recent possibility for a rep.

But considering we've got Chrom already and a Three Houses rep (Edelgard) probably being DLC, its unlikely.

Yes I know she's an assist again; I don't want to remind myself of that

Compared to Issac/RH Rep, I'm not sure how she would compare.
I know it seems like these reps, specifically Isaac, would be much more likely, but we can't know for sure.
Sakurai obviously likes Fire Emblem and Heroes is pushing a billion different Lyn alts, so she's definitely more relevant than the others.
It really just comes down to what Sakurai decides, it's his vision after all.

 

[Luigi The President]

I have many more Pokemon that I'd much rather have than Incineroar.

However, I would be fine with this addition under 3 conditions:
1. Incineroar's moveset looks interesting/cool
2. Its personality shines through that moveset
3. He's not the last character as the box theory suggests



In terms of Fire Emblem, Lyn is the most popular non-recent possibility for a rep.

But considering we've got Chrom already and a Three Houses rep (Edelgard) probably being DLC, its unlikely.

Yes I know she's an assist again; I don't want to remind myself of that

Compared to Issac/RH Rep, I'm not sure how she would compare.
I know it seems like these reps, specifically Isaac, would be much more likely, but we can't know for sure.
Sakurai obviously likes Fire Emblem and Heroes is pushing a billion different Lyn alts, so she's definitely more relevant than the others.
It really just comes down to what Sakurai decides, it's his vision after all.

Not the point I'm making at all. My point was regarding her status as an "all-star".
But, you raise good points friend.

 

[osby]

By the way, since we are talking about Fire Emblem characters and Smash, I think that if we do get a non-echo newcomer for Fire Emblem as DLC, I think it should be Edelgard from the upcoming Fire Emblem Switch title. Why her over any other characters? Two words:

AXE LORD.

Just one?

Spoiler

Go big or go home.

 

[Flyboy]

As soon as we get No More Heroes 3.

(And I aint talking about Travis Strikes Back)

IT'S GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE A CASE FOR DLC OKAY I CAN DREAM

 

[Deleted member]

By the way, since we are talking about Fire Emblem characters and Smash, I think that if we do get a non-echo newcomer for Fire Emblem as DLC, I think it should be Edelgard from the upcoming Fire Emblem Switch title. Why her over any other characters? Two words:

AXE LORD.

Oh hey, I don't hate her.

 

[Glaciacott]

By the way, since we are talking about Fire Emblem characters and Smash, I think that if we do get a non-echo newcomer for Fire Emblem as DLC, I think it should be Edelgard from the upcoming Fire Emblem Switch title. Why her over any other characters? Two words:

AXE LORD.

Seems like for FE White hair is the new Blue hair