Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsychoIncarnate]

Maybe Smash was censored because people kept spamming it or some crap.

IDK, when I first heard that it was the first thing to come to mind

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay so if Dan were an AT could we get him to fight the Waluigi AT

Honestly, the chances of that would be small, given how randomized ATs are. Did Smash 4 on Wii U have an option for which characters can pop up?

 

[Will]

Okay so if Dan were an AT could we get him to fight the Waluigi AT

The only thing a Dan Assist trophy would do is taunt and be another Tingle. What we need is Guile.

Way far behind to be considered a fighter but known enough to be an Assist. better than chun-li/bison/akuma dont @ me

Two character reveals in a month? Yeah, no.

***** we got FIVE in August.

 

[Noipoi]

There is only one character who the stars align for, and that's the spirit of the stars themselves

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

 

[Sigran101]

Here's a game. You have to

Murder 3:
Bang 3:
Piss 3 off:

 

[NextChannelGames]

69 days left...
Next fighter is #69...
Minecon is today...

HE'S IN BROS HE HAS TO BE THE STARS ARE ALIGNED FOR THIS MOMENT

Welp, this day is going to be interesting

 

[hposter]

69 days left until the launch of Ultimate.

nice

 

[osby]

Someone on Gamefaqs made this in defense of Celica

I don't know if it's true but Celica would be quite hype. Oh, and Geno.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Unrelated to the current discussion, but after a few weeks I managed to piece together my full views on the whole Bowsette/Super Crown fiasco, as well as New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe as a whole.

I still cannot imagine the thought processes behind adding the features that they did in New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe. They fail to address the problems people have with the New Super Mario Bros. games, thereby failing to justify the purchase for knowledgeable, skeptical consumers. This is especially crazy when you consider that New Super Mario Bros. U was a Wii U launch title, and thus has been available to the console's market for its entire lifespan, unlike something more recent like Splatoon that everyone's still pretty new to.

Everyone complains that the two Toads are a waste of potential character usage, so they replace one Toad with… a character that's still a Toad, yet Nintendo jumps through all these bizarre self-imposed hoops to justify it by giving them an exclusive power-up. You know, instead of just using a character who not only recently used similar powers by default, but that fans are ravenous for more of. I'm not even a Daisy fan, but this was a missed opportunity to please the Mario fan community and instead you just confused them. And before you come at me with "oh that'd just be lazy" yes, it is lazy, but it makes more sense to have Daisy with Peach's abilities than a Toad who needs a special power-up that only they can collect to get Peach's abilities.

Either way, now they have this weird gimmick character in a series that usually gives all player characters the same abilities. New Super Luigi U had the same four-player problem where someone's gonna have to sucker up and choose the easy mode character. I don't know if I'd prefer both Toads remaining, but the whole conundrum is moot since they clearly had people to sculpt, rig, and animate new models for this game. They could easily have readded a fourth "normal" character. Am I the only one bugged by this?

People also complain about the asset reuse across the series, and it's entirely intact here, just slightly built on top of. Nintendo added in, like, three new models onto the base game, and called it a day as far as that issue was concerned.

I guess the Super Crown does count as taking risks, but games like Super Mario Odyssey have been plenty risky without throwing the audience for a total loop. In that game, the new elements are well-explained from both mechanical and in-universe viewpoints. I highly doubt that Nintendo will ever explain the Super Crown, and this is frustrating to me because it creates a lot of plot holes in a series with no story. Nintendo seemingly didn't even consider what would happen if you put the Super Crown on other characters, so I'll be really surprised if it's ever mentioned again, especially now that the Internet has shown them the logical conclusions.

On some level, I think Bowsette is an attempt to rationalize our obvious questions about this game, but since it's a fandom creation, it doesn't really impact my opinion of New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe as a game. But I do think it further drags down its value as a product. Go to Twitter and you can see, for free, hundreds of pieces of fanart for a joke fan creation that's arguably more compelling and well-thought-out than the $60 game it's based on. That's pretty sad, in my opinion.

Spoiler

Also people clearly like the idea of femme fatale in Mario games.

Either bring back Captain Syrup or make a new character. Even if it's just for spin-offs a la Waluigi, do it. It's a niche that clearly people like (Bowsette, Shadow Queen, Syrup, etc.) and could easily be capitalized on.

 

[Will]

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

I think the people went to play Thousand-Year Door and Pokemon USUM.

 

[Nekoo]

There is only one character who the stars align for, and that's the spirit of the stars themselves

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

I knew it. We're getting a Hotfix patch to change Rosalina and Luma to LUMA and Rosalina...Or maybe...

Spoiler: Big revelation of a characters that also did a single appearance

Lubba

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Look, I'm sorry, but I just can't believe people are jumping to conclusions left and right about a single word being censored when we have clear-as-day evidence even from Sakurai HIMSELF about the pace of character reveals. More over, when have they ever revealed anything that wasn't related to Minecraft in a MINECRAFT in convention?

I'm down for a reveal, but you have to meticulously plan this right. Two character reveals in a month? Yeah, no.

...Minecraft content in Smash is related to Minecraft. So, what's the point of that statement?

Having an announcement two weeks after Isabelle's is hardly "speeding up the pace" anyway. That's still a pretty long time between two small announcements to begin with. The evidence you have is too vague.

But the bigger issue is the reaction images to begin with. They're meme spam. And that's the problem in itself. Those are happening way too often among the thread lately. I felt it was best to note the issue in itself.

Obviously your post wasn't straight out spam. If it was, you'd have gotten the obvious PM. You're clearly frustrated with the current state of the thread, and while that's understandable, the thread isn't off-topic nor doing anything wrong by having different opinions anyway. Sometimes the best thing to do is shrug and move on.

 

[Noipoi]

I think the people went to play Thousand-Year Door and Pokemon USUM.

I don't know what you mean, but I love both those games!

 

[Deleted member]

People trying to justify expecting Steve at Minecon, huh? We really have gone insane after all.

69 days left until the launch of Ultimate.

Nice.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Someone on Gamefaqs made this in defense of Celica

I actually agree with this. That rumor can't be disproven as it stands. Additionally, it said an August direct and Simon and Ashley's AT were in it. On top of this, it claims Isabelle, but says nothing about her being an Echo, making it seem like she's another unique. Additionally, I can 100% see Celica as Character 70 or 71, totally unique like Isabelle or just entirely unique.

Nearly all of its predictions (and there are not many) have come true, save for Celica and Geno.

Also, FE getting yet another unique would provide just the perfect amount of salt for the final base roster that is extremely limited lol, especially if FE and Pokemon are 2 of the final characters.

 

[Noipoi]

Hey Pakky, I just want you to know if you really do make icons of Super Crown designs they are ALL going in my sig!

 

[Iridium]

People trying to justify expecting Steve at Minecon, huh? We really have gone insane after all.

Nice.

Every single reaction to that has been "nice", even on Twitter. I feel like I'm not getting something...

 

[Luigi The President]

Someone on Gamefaqs made this in defense of Celica

Lol if I get Geno due to Celica being in bring her on

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

EVO is nothing more than a large gaming event. Minecon is nothing more than a large gaming event. So are many other things. There is still no serious difference to begin with. People are looking for stuff that isn't there again. It doesn't remotely matter if one is heavily about fighting games. And no, people were actually severely surprised we got actual Smash information at EVO. Want to know why? It was considered a case of "Nintendo does not announce anything at events they don't specifically hold, themselves." The fact it even happened was an extremely huge surprise and those twitters? They were people who were easily dismissed as being unrealistic. It was completely unrealistic to expect a Smash announcement.

Large gaming events may or may not have announcements related to Smash. Never expect it. Be surprised if somehow it happens. You're looking for differences that don't legitimately exist. EVO is the same thing as Minecon. Just an event for a specific genre or game series. No more, no less.

Let me specify your statement to reveal the contradictions that are inherently present in your original statement.

"Evo is nothing more than a fighting gaming event that also features Smash as one of it main events" .

Evo is also known for Fighting games to announce things too even if Nintendo Wasn't known for doing that.

"Minecon is nothing more than a large gaming event that doesn't feature Smash and is primarily if not entirely about the game Minecraft and nothing Smash related has ever been brought up here".

"They both have the same level of expectations and barely any differences"????

This is what really should have been said. You made it incredibly broad.

I think there is a clear difference and it is critical to be specific; that statement you said is incredibly broad and lacks specific information in order to make your argument stronger. The differences naturally becomes apparent the further you specify the two events as they relates to Smash. Many things can be strikingly similar if you broaden it enough. What is critical is the specifics that allows for people to deduce the given information.

One has Smash directly in as one of their main events and is known for announcing things for their main events . The other has never had Smash in their events whatsoever and is specifically about one game (Minecraft)

It doesn't help a viewer to understand what Evo is. "A gaming convention of what"?. Just because the masses was not well informed or analytical enough to see that it wasn't unrealistic but merely unexpected does not make it actually unrealistic. General public tend to be misinformed or uninformed all the time and make statements or assumptions that are weak when further analyzed.

Looking at those tweets such as Nairo, JC (do you know who he is? He is a manager of Nintendo treehouse ) and the like + the amount of marketing Nintendo has done at Smash competitive events and bringing demos prior to Evo and at Evo ( Paxs, CEO, E3), the fact they were literally referencing competitive terminology in treehouse (dash-dancing,), giving competitive Smashers VIP sections and I would say it's was not unrealistic for something to happen at Evo when given this information especially since this behavior was not really present beforehand and certainly not on this level but UNLIKELY . It was unrealistic because Nintendo never did reveals at Evo before and didn't make direct catering to the hardcore crowd, but when looking at all the direction Ultimate was going it and all the signs; the expectations should have went from unrealistic to unlikely.

Evo is for hardcore people . So I know a lot of people who doesn't follow Smash competitively but follow Nintendo wouldn't look at those tweets and even JC who was tweeting nothing but Evo at the time or really take notice how Nintendo behavior changes specifically towards the competitive crowd. There would also be people who wouldn't know what Evo is anyway but speculate on Smash as well.

The information and behavior changes was all there; people just didn't receive, analyze or sought out the information and made their opinions on the matter like they always do. Doesn't mean that it was objectively unrealistic just because they lacked the information . When Information that can be used to determine likelihood of something happening is not used; the likelihood is still the same. Potential for electricity was always there; people just didn't know about it until later, however the information regarding Evo and Nintendo behavior was available to anyone who took the time to seek it out.

The likelihood for anything Smash related at Evo was simply more then the likelihood of anything Smash related being announced at Minecon . My post covers as to why.

Comparing Evo that has Smash as a MAIN event in it to Minecon and to say they both were incredibly unrealistic to have Smash stuff when given the information I brought forward is something I simply disagree with.

 

[Will]

People trying to justify expecting Steve at Minecon, huh? We really have gone insane after all.

That's just insulting them at this point, bruv. This ain't it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I actually agree with this. That rumor can't be disproven as it stands. Additionally, it said an August direct and Simon and Ashley's AT were in it. On top of this, it claims Isabelle, but says nothing about her being an Echo, making it seem like she's another unique. Additionally, I can 100% see Celica as Character 70 or 71, totally unique like Isabelle or just entirely unique.

Nearly all of its predictions (and there are not many) have come true, save for Celica and Geno.

So we're getting 8 Fire Emblems

FE seems cool but only 6 Zelda reps and most are the same characters :wellthen:

 

[Noipoi]

Every single reaction to that has been "nice", even on Twitter. I feel like I'm not getting something...

Do you really not know where the "69" joke comes from?
It's not exactly appropriate so I won't explain, just go look it up...

 

[SonicMario]

Someone on Gamefaqs made this in defense of Celica

If this is the rest of the characters, I'd again be ok with it.

Only thing I'd be concerned about is even more anger about Fire Emblem heh. Though an 8-player Fire Emblem (As in with all different characters) match would finally be possible.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Here's my 100 roster, basically what most people want or expect, mixed with some of my own personal wants.

Spoiler

View attachment 167219

I'll go through them for fun:

Spoiler

73. Incineroar- Basically confirmed at this point, but I've also grown to like his design and can see his moveset being really unique.
74. Dixie- Fairly standard of "this is so painfully obvious, why isn't she in yet" kind of deal. Isabelle-esque newcomer.
75. Skull Kid- Zelda is dire need of a unique newcomer, as the series is honestly poorly represented IMO (3 links/Ganon is based off of another character)
76. Impa- Sheik Echo with a few moveset differences
77. Masked Man- Super unique fighter with a sword and blaster and would differentiate himself from the other PSI users.
78. Porky- Another villain heavy, enough said. Probably my most requested character
79. BWD- This one is for the fans and the last of the main cast in the modern Kirby games.
80. Hades-Villain heavy mage. Has an awesome design.
81. Medusa- Palutena Echo,
82. Hector- An Axe FE user. Unique and FE 7 should be represented properly. I'd also call for Ephraim and FE 8 but if I'd have to choose, its Hector. However, due to the way FE is being represented (usually by relevancy), I'd say Edelgard will be our axe user in the future, due to Three Houses.
83. Celica- Robin Echo. For the FE 2/15 representation and she is by far the most relevant FE character at the moment with Echoes being a recent addition. She could very well be an echo, but I also could see her as an Isabelle-esque character to Robin.
84. Black Knight- Ike Echo (becoming a meme now). FE needs a villain though so he'd be perfect.
85. Black Shadow- Captain Falcon echo. Would use Ganondorf's melee moveset with a few updates. I'd also want him in for the hopes of one day making Ganondorf his own fully unique character.
86. Shadow- Expected echo for Sonic
87. Ken- Like Shadow is expected and possibly leaked already.
88. Reyn- My favorite Xenoblade character, personal bias and his odd non-inclusion in the game leaves me hopeful.
89. Kamek- Would be neat to have a villain mage and Yoshi to have one of his villains.
90. Isaac- GS is one of the last big Nintendo franchises not represented. He deserves a spot.
91. Felix- As much a character as Isaac is, if not even more.
92. Chorus Kids- Ends the Smash 4 debacle and like GS, Rhythm heaven is one of the last big Nintendo series without a rep.
93. Spring Man- While popularity did not fully let the game survive post launch, ARMS is popular, I can see it.
94. Sora- KH3 is releasing and I'm more than confident in SE doing rereleases of KH 1.5/2.5/2.8 and porting 3 to the Switch. He's currently SE's most relevant character atm so DLC may be a given for him.
95. Geno- This one is a special case. We all know why.
96. Heihachi- I know people are against this, but Bamco makes the game, Tekken is by far their biggest franchise, and Heihachi is by far their most popular character. Yoshimitsu is also another possible candidate as he'd cover both Tekken and Soul Calibur and is extremely popular but I'm not sure.
97. Phoenix Wright- I don't think I need to explain why people want him. His moveset would be hilarious and memorable.
98. Dante- If Bayonetta deserves to be in roster, Dante does even more. He pioneered the action Genre, and was even made by the same creator.
99. Rayman- Revamped the 2d platforming genre. One of 2 western 3rd parties I believe have a chance.
100. Banjo and Kazooie- The other. Yes, Steve might be in, but I think it will be a stage or AT over a character, and this is the real prize. My opinion.

I know its missing other's like Elma, Rex, Malos, etc. I'm biased to Reyn but Elma probably would take his spot, simply due to popularity

Anyway, thats what I got. 19 more Uniques lol and only like 9 echoes so I can't see this being entirely possible in the slightest. By the end of Smash Ultimates DLC, I can see ~half of these getting in. Maybe more, maybe less. The number of Uniques are what make it hard to predict, but it does leave possibilities for future smash games.

No Crash Bandicoot?

0/10


It looks pretty solid though so 8.9/10

 

[Iridium]

Do you really not know where the "69" joke comes from?
It's not exactly appropriate so I won't explain, just go look it up...

No, not that. Everyone literally has the exact same reaction to it, so I ironically thought there was a cult (not really).

 

[Deleted member]

...Minecraft content in Smash is related to Minecraft. So, what's the point of that statement?

Having an announcement two weeks after Isabelle's is hardly "speeding up the pace" anyway. That's still a pretty long time between two small announcements to begin with. The evidence you have is too vague.

But the bigger issue is the reaction images to begin with. They're meme spam. And that's the problem in itself. Those are happening way too often among the thread lately. I felt it was best to note the issue in itself.

Obviously your post wasn't straight out spam. If it was, you'd have gotten the obvious PM. You're clearly frustrated with the current state of the thread, and while that's understandable, the thread isn't off-topic nor doing anything wrong by having different opinions anyway. Sometimes the best thing to do is shrug and move on.

It's all good. I just don't really know how much better to convey my frustration. Because like, we have people now gatekeeping what we can or can't say in Smash speculation, toxicity really has been out in full force, now this? The only word I can describe it better is "yikes" when people don't look at any thing Sakurai has stated and just go willy-nilly. THAT is what gets me the most angry.

Not counting Directs, because that's of course obvious for multiple reveals, we never have had more than two newcomers revealed in a single month. When Smash 4 revealed a new fighter, it'd always be only just one for that month. Robin and Lucina's reveal doesn't count because Lucina was practically Marth's echo fighter before they officially confirmed it. So I can't see two newcomers revealed in a single month, especially when we're gonna have a possible huge blow-out of info in October again.

 

[Luigi The President]

Expecting Steve at Minecon isn't much different than expecting only 2 more due to a box.

Spoiler

THIS IS GONNA BE GOOD. also it's a joke. if you can't tell.

It's all good. I just don't really know how much better to convey my frustration. Because like, we have people now gatekeeping what we can or can't say in Smash speculation, toxicity really has been out in full force, now this? The only word I can describe it better is "yikes" when people don't look at any thing Sakurai has stated and just go willy-nilly. THAT is what gets me the most angry.

Not counting Directs, because that's of course obvious for multiple reveals, we never have had more than two newcomers revealed in a single month. When Smash 4 revealed a new fighter, it'd always be only just one for that month. Robin and Lucina's reveal doesn't count because Lucina was practically Marth's echo fighter before they officially confirmed it. So I can't see two newcomers revealed in a single month, especially when we're gonna have a possible huge blow-out of info in October again.

Gatekeeping what we say in Smash speculation
...but you're trying to ward off people discussing Steve at Minecon?

Tots you know I love you I just had to point out that bit. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Nintendo wasn't "behind" EVO to begin with.

They were just advertising the fact two of their games was there(one regular, one demo). Let's not pretend there was an actual point behind those tweets beyond that. That's what they meant to do, to get people to watch their games.

People still didn't expect an actual Smash announcement there because the idea was still extremely absurd. The fact it happened was still a huge surprise to many, which this site exploded with hype over it. Nobody was hyped for the tweets either, as the expectations were kept realistic, just "oh, hey, our games are here. Go watch!".

If that was the case, then we would've gotten real Smash information from the various weekend Smash tourneys in Japan. We didn't. The tweets were not pointing at any real Smash information. Wasn't their purpose to begin with. Why wouldn't they tell people to watch something that their games are at? That's the point.

I'm sorry, that's just a blatant misrepresentation of the two.

Nintendo hyped Evo. We had two Smash games and a demo of Ultimate. Evo is known to be a place where fighting games show off their new stuff to the point where it's almost a convention in and of itself. Yeah, it wasn't likely, but I can understand the rationale behind thinking there would be a reveal there far more than I can the egregious self-wounding of "Steve is rumored so that's perfect evidence that Smash will be at a convention for specifically one game franchise with little foreshadowing from any of the third parties involved."

Context is important, and I don't particularly care for the "nothing is impossible so nyeh" argument. Yeah, everything is possible. Duke Nukem and Tony the Tiger could be our next characters. It's _possible._ Does that mean it's a thought worth entertaining, or worse actually feeling sorry for the people who somehow got disappointed from expecting such a thing?

No.

 

[Nekoo]

That Celica things is impossible to refute, it makes me septical, but...
I'm still team "Who the **** will leak the Square-Enix Rep after two Leakers, one being our most trusted source of leaks said that it's basically impossible to know that characters because there Leak trap everywhere and they even have the list of characters name"

And with my TINY personal experience of working in something doing a collab with Square with FF XV/AC. I'm willing to agree as none of us knew what we were working on beside Cutscene/Mission Planner and Writers knew alongside Higher up.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Look, I'm sorry, but I just can't believe people are jumping to conclusions left and right about a single word being censored when we have clear-as-day evidence even from Sakurai HIMSELF about the pace of character reveals. More over, when have they ever revealed anything that wasn't related to Minecraft in a MINECRAFT in convention?

I'm down for a reveal, but you have to meticulously plan this right. Two character reveals in a month? Yeah, no.

Wishful thinking can change things at the drop of the hat, it's how this thread can go from "There are no more characters we don't already know, so speculation is dead" to "Steve, Celica, Skull Kid, Gardevoir and Gothitelle, and Waluigi will all be announced in the same month." It's why I don't think it's good to be overly optimistic or overly pessimistic. Moderation, in accordance with the facts, is the best approach. It has been hard speculating because of this recently though, which is why I've been coming and going as of late.

 

[Paperchampion23]

So we're getting 8 Fire Emblems

FE seems cool but only 6 Zelda reps and most are the same characters :wellthen:

The scary thing is I can see Black Knight as an Ike echo, Celica as a unique and Edelgard as a DLC rep. So 10 reps and FE would officially have more unique characters than Zelda lmao. If Celica makes it in, it's going to happenXD

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Spoiler

Also people clearly like the idea of femme fatale in Mario games.

Either bring back Captain Syrup or make a new character. Even if it's just for spin-offs a la Waluigi, do it. It's a niche that clearly people like (Bowsette, Shadow Queen, Syrup, etc.) and could easily be capitalized on.

Something something Japanisntcomfortablewithmaturewomenandprefercuteyounggirls something something.

Then again, Nintendo has actually decided not to start their promotional Wario Ware Gold character shorts with Ashley (GASP), so clearly something has shaken the company on a fundamental level, so changes may finally happen.

I knew it. We're getting a Hotfix patch to change Rosalina and Luma to LUMA and Rosalina...Or maybe...

Spoiler: Big revelation of a characters that also did a single appearance

Lubba

 

[Paperchampion23]

No Crash Bandicoot?

0/10


It looks pretty solid though so 8.9/10

Lol don't worry I'd want him too, but I left space for Rayman and Banjo since they have either history with Nintendo (Banjo) or have a good partnership (Ubisoft). I have no idea what Activision thinks about putting Spyro or Crash in, though both trilogies are releasing for the switch so I can totally see them now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not gonna lie if Celica's an echo I'll be disappointed in a similar way to how Dark Samus disappointed me

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let me specify your statement to reveal the contradictions that are inherently present in your original statement.

"Evo is nothing more than a fighting gaming event that also features Smash as one of it main events" .

Evo is also known for Fighting games to announce things too even if Nintendo Wasn't known for doing that.

"Minecon is nothing more than a large gaming event that doesn't feature Smash and is primarily if not entirely about the game Minecraft and nothing Smash related has ever been brought up here".

"They both have the same level of expectations" ????

This is what really should have been said. You made it incredibly broad.

I think there is a clear difference and it is critical to be specific; that statement you said is incredibly broad and lacks specific information in order to make your argument stronger. The differences naturally becomes apparent the further you specify the two events as they relates to Smash. Many things can be strikingly similar if you broaden it enough. What is critical is the specifics that allows for people to deduce the given information.

One has Smash directly in as one of their main events and is known for announcing things for their main events . The other has never had Smash in their events whatsoever and is specifically about one game (Minecraft)

It doesn't help a viewer to understand what Evo is. "A gaming convention of what"?. Just because the masses was not well informed or analytical enough to see that it wasn't unrealistic but merely unexpected does not make it actually unrealistic. General public tend to be misinformed or uninformed all the time and make statements or assumptions that are weak when further analyzed.

Looking at those tweets such as Nairo, JC (do you know who he is? He is a manager of Nintendo treehouse ) and the like + the amount of marketing Nintendo has done at Smash competitive events and bringing demos prior to Evo and at Evo ( Paxs, CEO, E3), the fact they were literally referencing competitive terminology in treehouse (dash-dancing,), giving competitive Smashers VIP sections and I would say it's was not unrealistic for something to happen at Evo when given this information especially since this behavior was not really present beforehand and certainly not on this level but UNLIKELY . It was unrealistic because Nintendo never did reveals at Evo before and didn't make direct catering to the hardcore crowd, but when looking at all the direction Ultimate was going it and all the signs; the expectations should have went from unrealistic to unlikely.

Evo is for hardcore people . So I know a lot of people who doesn't follow Smash competitively but follow Nintendo wouldn't look at those tweets and even JC who was tweeting nothing but Evo at the time or really take notice how Nintendo behavior changes specifically towards the competitive crowd. There would also be people who wouldn't know what Evo is anyway but speculate on Smash as well.

The information and behavior changes was all there; people just didn't receive, analyze or sought out the information and made their opinions on the matter like they always do. Doesn't mean that it was objectively unrealistic just because they lacked the information . When Information that can be used to determine likelihood of something happening is not used; the likelihood is still the same. Potential for electricity was always there; people just didn't know about it until later, however the information regarding Evo and Nintendo behavior was available to anyone who took the time to seek it out.

The likelihood for anything Smash related at Evo was simply more then the likelihood of anything Smash related being announced at Minecon . My post covers as to why.

Comparing Evo that has Smash as a MAIN event in it to Minecon and to say they both were incredibly unrealistic to have Smash stuff when given the information I brought forward is something I simply disagree with.

They were both entirely unrealistic because neither is a Nintendo direct.

Nintendo having a literal presence at EVO meant jack****. That wasn't the point of them being there. It's their demo. Of course they're going to be there. It's properly advertising their content.

Expectations are not super realistic to begin with. Nobody ever seriously thought we'd get a Smash announcement at EVO and that's because Nintendo doesn't do announcements for Smash outside of their own literal events. It came off as a giant surprise to practically everyone because they were actually being realistic. Real analysis shows that in fact. That's why nobody expects it at EVO to begin with. Those tweets were literally meaningless beyond advertising their games' existence and the fact they were there. The fact they announced the event during Melee, not the Smash Ultimate tourney, which would've made sense, shows they weren't trying to make it obvious. It was done as 100% a surprise. Anybody seriously expecting it was dismissed here for good reasons. I actually defended the idea that there was a tiny chance of something at EVO, but to not expect it.

Stop pretending there was a real difference. There wasn't.

I'm sorry, that's just a blatant misrepresentation of the two.

Nintendo hyped Evo. We had two Smash games and a demo of Ultimate. Evo is known to be a place where fighting games show off their new stuff to the point where it's almost a convention in and of itself. Yeah, it wasn't likely, but I can understand the rationale behind thinking there would be a reveal there far more than I can the egregious self-wounding of "Steve is rumored so that's perfect evidence that Smash will be at a convention for specifically one game franchise with little foreshadowing from any of the third parties involved."

Context is important, and I don't particularly care for the "nothing is impossible so nyeh" argument. Yeah, everything is possible. Duke Nukem and Tony the Tiger could be our next characters. It's _possible._ Does that mean it's a thought worth entertaining, or worse actually feeling sorry for the people who somehow got disappointed from expecting such a thing?

No.

Nintendo hyped EVO because their games are there. No more, no less. Let's stop pretending otherwise. That's the only real context to begin with. Anything else is laughable, honestly. And always will be. They weren't promoting anything else. Of course they're going to promote their games. Duh. There was zero legitimate foreshadowing to begin with. That was expecting something that wasn't treated as realistic. Everybody dismissed the idea of EVO having any real Smash news, and despite the fact I kept my mind open, I even thought it was impossible, like all non-regular Nintendo direct events(or them doing so randomly outside of any event).

Also, making bad hyperbolic comparisons doesn't do anything for your case. So that I will dismiss for good reasons. Nobody said "anything is possible". To pretend that's what being openminded means is a severely ridiculous comparison. That is not what being openminded means, and you know it.

It's all good. I just don't really know how much better to convey my frustration. Because like, we have people now gatekeeping what we can or can't say in Smash speculation, toxicity really has been out in full force, now this? The only word I can describe it better is "yikes" when people don't look at any thing Sakurai has stated and just go willy-nilly. THAT is what gets me the most angry.

Not counting Directs, because that's of course obvious for multiple reveals, we never have had more than two newcomers revealed in a single month. When Smash 4 revealed a new fighter, it'd always be only just one for that month. Robin and Lucina's reveal doesn't count because Lucina was practically Marth's echo fighter before they officially confirmed it. So I can't see two newcomers revealed in a single month, especially when we're gonna have a possible huge blow-out of info in October again.

Best thing to do is not post at all. Or just change the subject. Don't take your frustrations out on the forum, and is it could cause unneeded drama.

You aren't the only one frustrated here, trust me.

 

[Will]

Not gonna lie if Celica's an echo I'll be disappointed in a similar way to how Dark Samus disappointed me

An Echo of an Echo perhaps

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Lol don't worry I'd want him too, but I left space for Rayman and Banjo since they have either history with Nintendo (Banjo) or have a good partnership (Ubisoft). I have no idea what Activision thinks about putting Spyro or Crash in, though both trilogies are releasing for the switch so I can totally see them now.

I imagine that VV and Toys For Bob would both want Crash and Spyro to be in. The mascots' destinies are tied to their mutual friendly rivalry, each of those two fated to do the things the other does.

 

[Thinkaman]

Sorry, I missed Minecon because I was doing literally anything else; can anyone fill me in on all the news?

Also I missed RuPaul's DragCon, so a recap of the Smash news at that would also be welcome.

 

[Cosmic77]

Someone on Gamefaqs made this in defense of Celica

This would be more impressive if Verge didn't predict Isabelle around the same time.

It ain't dead yet, but most of the things that weren't already said by Verge before then haven't come true. Arguing that Celica could still get in Smash is one thing. Arguing that this leak has gotten enough things right to be deemed credible is another.

So far, all we have to work with is the correct prediction of an August Direct and an Ashley AT. Neither of those claims are specific enough for me to think this person had any real insider info, and I'm inclined to believe that this is one of the few leaks that was lucky enough to survive thanks to its limited details.

 

[Flyboy]

We can always discuss the idea of a Street Fighter Assist Trophy. What about Blanka?

Dictator please. If I can't get my Dan Hibiki or Sakura echo at least give me this assist trophy.