Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

And Monster Hunter simply is nowhere near Minecraft in the grand scheme of things.

I don't really know why they'd collaborate with MICROSOFT of all people, who objectively seem to be much harder to work with Nintendo-wise than Capcom, for a simple stage or assist trophy.

To be fair, Tetris has been the most sold video game franchise of all time, and the representation it has in Smash is literally only two songs. We can talk about the scope of franchises all day, but how they handle said franchises matters, and most of the time it kinda sucks lmao

Like Final Fantasy VII - overated or not - is probably the most iconic RPG of all time, yet we only have a Midgar stage and two songs that are just rips and not even remixes. They have SO much material to go off of - WE COULD'VE HAD GOLD SAUCER MUSIC IN SMASH. It's sad given it's most likely due to legality issues.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I

Did you play Squids?
I need to know about Squids.

I’ll check out the Inklings for you!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

And I am very confident he's in the base game myself. I'm just absolutely convinced he's happening.
Refuse to believe they'd give MINECRAFT representation but no character, you know?

It depends. If Sakurai feel like Steve better fits as an Assist Trophy and that Minecraft is best represented by a stage then it is very much possible that's all he went after. It's not necessarily any different for him getting Shovel Knight to ONLY use him as an Assist.

Don't throw out scenarios just because Minecraft is a big game. Anything can happen.

I don't even expect Minecraft content at this point. At most a stage is what I could see. I've went back and checked some of Vergebens previous leaks and, for as much as he gets right, there's always SOMETHING he gets wrong. In other words. Right at the peak of his leaks is where something goes wrong and he starts to backpedal to save his skin. I think this is that moment. I think he'll die on the Minecraft hill. On Hitagi. There's no reason to believe he has legitimate info on Smash. Other games, sure. But Smash runs a much tighter ship.

I could very well be wrong but identifying circumstances of the possibility of the Minecraft deal ends with a lot of missed opportunities. I don't see how Steve would happen because of those.

 

[Noipoi]

I’ll check out the Inklings for you!

Much obliged .

 

[FirestormNeos]

ignore this.

 

[Iridium]

Guh-Huzzah! , if you can get enough games, is it possible you can test if Link's down tilt spikes (near the hilt) opponents offstage? I still have no idea if it works still...

 

[Luigi The President]

To be fair, Tetris has been the most sold video game franchise of all time, and the representation it has in Smash is literally only two songs. We can talk about the scope of franchises all day, but how they handle said franchises matters, and most of the time it kinda sucks lmao

Like Final Fantasy VII - overated or not - is probably the most iconic RPG of all time, yet we only have a Midgar stage and two songs that are just rips and not even remixes. They have SO much material to go off of - WE COULD'VE HAD GOLD SAUCER MUSIC IN SMASH. It's sad given it's most likely due to legality issues.

Tetris also does not have a character to represent it as much as we love the blocks.

Minecraft has both potential representation for a stage, assist trophy, and character.
I find it hard to believe they wouldn't take advantage of that.

It depends. If Sakurai feel like Steve better fits as an Assist Trophy and that Minecraft is best represented by a stage then it is very much possible that's all he went after. It's not necessarily any different for him getting Shovel Knight to ONLY use him as an Assist.

Don't throw out scenarios just because Minecraft is a big game. Anything can happen.

I don't even expect Minecraft content at this point. At most a stage is what I could see. I've went back and checked some of Vergebens previous leaks and, for as much as he gets right, there's always SOMETHING he gets wrong. In other words. Right at the peak of his leaks is where something goes wrong and he starts to backpedal to save his skin. I think this is that moment. I think he'll die on the Minecraft hill. On Hitagi. There's no reason to believe he has legitimate info on Smash. Other games, sure. But Smash runs a much tighter ship.

I could very well be wrong but identifying circumstances of the possibility of the Minecraft deal ends with a lot of missed opportunities. I don't see how Steve would happen because of those.

Yeah, I'm getting ahead of myself. However, I feel it's notable that he has always stuck to Minecraft. It's never been a new thing. We've known he's totally confident on Minecraft content for months. If anything you'd think he'd get Incineroar wrong, but I mean, not gonna happen. So I'm not sure why it'd be the Minecraft content he's been so confident on.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It depends. If Sakurai feel like Steve better fits as an Assist Trophy and that Minecraft is best represented by a stage then it is very much possible that's all he went after. It's not necessarily any different for him getting Shovel Knight to ONLY use him as an Assist.

Don't throw out scenarios just because Minecraft is a big game. Anything can happen.

I don't even expect Minecraft content at this point. At most a stage is what I could see. I've went back and checked some of Vergebens previous leaks and, for as much as he gets right, there's always SOMETHING he gets wrong. In other words. Right at the peak of his leaks is where something goes wrong and he starts to backpedal to save his skin. I think this is that moment. I think he'll die on the Minecraft hill. On Hitagi. There's no reason to believe he has legitimate info on Smash. Other games, sure. But Smash runs a much tighter ship.

I could very well be wrong but identifying circumstances of the possibility of the Minecraft deal ends with a lot of missed opportunities. I don't see how Steve would happen because of those.

NSG you see the irony in saying Verge doesn't have credentials for Smash leaks despite not being wrong but saying it's plausible for other games where his track record is a LOT dodgier right?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair, Tetris has been the most sold video game franchise of all time, and the representation it has in Smash is literally only two songs. We can talk about the scope of franchises all day, but how they handle said franchises matters, and most of the time it kinda sucks lmao

Like Final Fantasy VII - overated or not - is probably the most iconic RPG of all time, yet we only have a Midgar stage and two songs that are just rips and not even remixes. They have SO much material to go off of - WE COULD'VE HAD GOLD SAUCER MUSIC IN SMASH. It's sad given it's most likely due to legality issues.

FFVII's songs aren't owned by Square-Enix. But by a separate artist who charges an arm and a leg for them. So Sakurai isn't going to pay that much for it. Plus, Midgar has a ton of summons and Cloud himself alone has a lot of work put into him, so it still is nice.

As for Tetris, it's still 3rd party regardless, and making it as a balanced stage isn't that easy alone. Think of how difficult it is to make a balance Dr. Mario stage. How can you work in the blocks falling but still make it playable? As bad as Mario Bros. was, there was a lot of areas to walk around in. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't super confined. It makes sense to concentrate more on the music. Tetris would work well as an AT, though. Look at Color Game TV-15(or however it's said, the Pong variation).

 

[NextChannelGames]

I would love to have a Tetris stage!

 

[Cosmic77]

I think all this Minecraft hoo-ha shows us how much influence Verge has on our opinions.

Guy didn't even mention Steve being a playable character, and there's people who're genuinely disappointed that we didn't get a reveal today.

 

[Pakky]

Dear God. Minecraft is such a ****ing ugly game.

Well, you right.

Which is the only real worry about Steve for me because, the enemies are charming in the 'style' the humans... eh?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think all this Minecraft hoo-ha shows us how much influence Verge has on our opinions.

Guy didn't even mention Steve being a playable character, and there's people who're genuinely disappointed that we didn't get a reveal today.

Eh, I've seen bigger influences. Did you know Bugs Bunny chewing on a carrot was merely a reference to a popular movie around the time Bugs debuted? Nowadays people thinks Rabbits really like carrots when in fact they're not very nutritious. All because of a dated movie reference

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Tetris does deserve more representation than 2 songs. I remember seeing some Tetris themed custom stages back in Brawl.

 

[Dee Dude]

....I really don’t know what people were expecting at Minecon.

Has there ever even been a Smash announcement at a non Smash/general Nintendo event?

Seriously, it’s Shantae at Nindie Showcase all over again.

 

[Will]

I think all this Minecraft hoo-ha shows us how much influence Verge has on our opinions.

Actually I've been advocating for him since the beginning.

Guy didn't even mention Steve being a playable character.

I'm like 98% sure he actually did.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

NSG you see the irony in saying Verge doesn't have credentials for Smash leaks despite not being wrong but saying it's plausible for other games where his track record is a LOT dodgier right?

I'm not saying he isn't legit. No. I know he's legit. I'm just saying that in the past he's gotten things wrong towards the end. Like, there's been times where people are all "No way, Verge is legit you guys" then he gets something wrong and is crucified for it, which is bull **** to begin with. My thing is the way it is worded.

Minecraft Content

I feel like that is incredibly vague and could easily have been a passing rumor. Like one of his sources said "I heard Mincraft Content was in the game" and when he asked his other two sources they were like "Oh yeah, maybe. I think I heard something like that" like, Minecraft Content is FAR more vague than a Gen VII Pokemon or even a new Square Rep. It just seems like there's a possibility that, hey, maybe this isn't exactly correct.

I'm expecting Minecraft Content at SOME point but I think base game is a bit dodgy.

 

[Luigi The President]

I think all this Minecraft hoo-ha shows us how much influence Verge has on our opinions.

Guy didn't even mention Steve being a playable character, and there's people who're genuinely disappointed that we didn't get a reveal today.

Nah he did.

He stated he's started to hear murmurings of Steve in the game whether it be from other sources or not. He's stated it's a maybe.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I would love to have a Tetris stage!

sounds like a quick way to die to stage hazards alot

 

[amazonevan19]

Yeah vergeben never directly said steve is in. He 100% knows there's going to be minecraft CONTENT but he stated he's hearing RUMORS/MURMURS that Steve is in.

tbh I think it's a way for him to pass himself off as credible in the event Steve doesn't make it but w/e it's the info we got.

 

[Will]

If Steve does get in, would they call him Steve, Steve? (literally with a question mark at the end) or would they just call him something like "Crafter". I mean, Steve as a name was a joke.

@DrMeatBoy I honestly have no idea. And I tend to always put a question mark after his name (Steve?), you know. :D

— notch (@notch) November 22, 2010

 

[Opossum]

This would be more impressive if Verge didn't predict Isabelle around the same time.

It ain't dead yet, but most of the things that weren't already said by Verge before then haven't come true. Arguing that Celica could still get in Smash is one thing. Arguing that this leak has gotten enough things right to be deemed credible is another.

So far, all we have to work with is the correct prediction of an August Direct and an Ashley AT. Neither of those claims are specific enough for me to think this person had any real insider info, and I'm inclined to believe that this is one of the few leaks that was lucky enough to survive thanks to its limited details.

I'm still skeptical of the Celica leak because I don't want to get my hopes up and I believe the Box Theory, but...

...Vergeben said Isabelle was in after the Celica leak did. About three or four days after, in fact.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think all this Minecraft hoo-ha shows us how much influence Verge has on our opinions.

Guy didn't even mention Steve being a playable character, and there's people who're genuinely disappointed that we didn't get a reveal today.

I actually love Minecraft and would love a playable Steve or Creeper, I just didn't think about it until a credible leaker started talking about it, making it seem more possible than not. plus things just don't come to mind until something pops into my head because I'm silly

I'm not saying he isn't legit. No. I know he's legit. I'm just saying that in the past he's gotten things wrong towards the end. Like, there's been times where people are all "No way, Verge is legit you guys" then he gets something wrong and is crucified for it, which is bull **** to begin with. My thing is the way it is worded.

Minecraft Content

I feel like that is incredibly vague and could easily have been a passing rumor. Like one of his sources said "I heard Mincraft Content was in the game" and when he asked his other two sources they were like "Oh yeah, maybe. I think I heard something like that" like, Minecraft Content is FAR more vague than a Gen VII Pokemon or even a new Square Rep. It just seems like there's a possibility that, hey, maybe this isn't exactly correct.

I'm expecting Minecraft Content at SOME point but I think base game is a bit dodgy.

Well, he recently stated he heard stage / AT instead of just content, along with "'possibly' a character," so maybe no Steve but surely an AT at least?

If Steve does get in, would they call him Steve, Steve? (literally with a question mark at the end) or would they just call him something like "Crafter". I mean, Steve as a name was a joke.

@DrMeatBoy I honestly have no idea. And I tend to always put a question mark after his name (Steve?), you know. :D

— notch (@notch) November 22, 2010

Well, Steve has become his official name.

 

[Luigi The President]

If Steve does get in, would they call him Steve, Steve? (literally with a question mark at the end) or would they just call him something like "Crafter". I mean, Steve as a name was a joke.

@DrMeatBoy I honestly have no idea. And I tend to always put a question mark after his name (Steve?), you know. :D

— notch (@notch) November 22, 2010

Nah it'd definitely be something like Steve. The name's pretty synonymous with him due to all the merch and all that with him.

 

[Cosmic77]

Nah he did.

He stated he's started to hear murmurings of Steve in the game whether it be from other sources or not. He's stated it's a maybe.

Should've rephrased that. I meant Verge never explicitly said Steve was a playable character, yet some people were genuinely disappointed that we didn't get anything today. Without Verge, they probably wouldn't have even made a connection with Minecon and Smash.

 

[amazonevan19]

Should've rephrased that. I meant Verge never explicitly said Steve was a playable character, yet some people were genuinely disappointed that we didn't get anything today. Without Verge, they probably wouldn't have even made a connection with Minecon and Smash.

That I can agree to. I doubt anyone would think Steve had as strong of a chance to make it without Verge. Speculated to maybe be in by a very few number of people, probably, but not by the whole community like it is now.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think all this Minecraft hoo-ha shows us how much influence Verge has on our opinions.

Guy didn't even mention Steve being a playable character, and there's people who're genuinely disappointed that we didn't get a reveal today.

I agree, though I think the credit goes more to the shaky Reddit user that Verge legitimized, rather than Verge saying he heard murmurs of a Minecraft character from his non-main sources. His claims have been, and still are, that he's confident Minecraft *content* was in the game. If people took Verge more seriously, that's the only thing they would be confident in, until Verge was able to confirm it with his main Smash sources. The timing makes much more sense if either Steve's not in (leaker bait), or only recently was planned for DLC. Still, if it hadn't been for Verge, I wouldn't have taken a person spouting quite literally "A MOTHER****ING MINECRAFT CHARACTER" was in. He'd be nothing more than those inconsequential 4chan leakers.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Verg heard Minecraft content is in, with no specifications of what it is. He's guessing it's a stage and/or AT. He later on got sources he's not sure on that Steve? could possibly be playable. All of his Minecraft information is very vague. The only thing he knows at best is some kind of content is supposed to be in, just not what.

 

[Will]

I doubt anyone would think Steve had as strong of a chance to make it without Verge.

Would you like me to stomp out those doubts?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't think Verge is just guessing about it being a stage or AT, he's saying he personally heard it.

Spoiler: Link to leak

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comm...e_by_snk_just_announced_in/e6blbnp/?context=3

..though he does use "and / or" so idk.

 

[Deleted member]

So I have a game/activity for you all. Let's put the Smashers in tiers by how "cuttable" you think their are. This is all opinion based of course.

Here is mine so you guys can have an example.
Must Haves Tier:
Would Be Nice To Include Tier:
Can Live Without Tier:
Most Cuttable Tier: ultlucina:

 

[Opossum]

So I have a game/activity for you all. Let's put the Smashers in tiers by how "cuttable" you think their are. This is all opinion based of course.

Here is mine so you guys can have an example.
Must Haves Tier:
Would Be Nice To Include Tier:
Can Live Without Tier:
Most Cuttable Tier: ultlucina:

It's saddening that Chrom and Dark Samus are in different tiers despite them getting in for the same reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

So I have a game/activity for you all. Let's put the Smashers in tiers by how "cuttable" you think their are. This is all opinion based of course.

Here is mine so you guys can have an example.
Must Haves Tier:
Would Be Nice To Include Tier:
Can Live Without Tier:
Most Cuttable Tier: ultlucina:

Must Haves Tier: ultlucina:

 

[Luigi The President]

Must Haves Tier: ultlucina:

This and I'm not even having a laugh.

I feel every single character in Ultimate makes Smash special for their own reasons.

 

[The_Naraotor]

Hey guys how about a Smashboard level stage ?

 

[Deleted member]

Tetris also does not have a character to represent it as much as we love the blocks.

Minecraft has both potential representation for a stage, assist trophy, and character.
I find it hard to believe they wouldn't take advantage of that.

And y'know what? We could've said the exact same thing about franchises like Monster Hunter now having potential for all of those three things. While yes, there's a definite difference between Minecraft and MonHun, you can't deny that it's grown to become an Animal Crossing-esque behemoth of a franchise as of recent years. Every franchise involved in Smash one way or another is gonna be handled differently; some more than others, and some less. This is why I don't believe in "slots", rather, I believe in looking at franchises at a representation level to try and be fair as possible.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's saddening that Chrom and Dark Samus are in different tiers despite them getting in for the same reasons.

But don't you understand? Fire Emblem has characters, and that's a sin punishable to death in the 9th circle of hell!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think Verge is just guessing about it being a stage or AT, he's saying he personally heard it.

Spoiler: Link to leak

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comm...e_by_snk_just_announced_in/e6blbnp/?context=3

..though he does use "and / or" so idk.

That's a later thing. Though that clears that up at least now that they're more clear. Originally, when he found out, it was more vague. Can you find out the rumors before the playable Steve? stuff?

 

[Pakky]

If Steve does get in, would they call him Steve, Steve? (literally with a question mark at the end) or would they just call him something like "Crafter". I mean, Steve as a name was a joke.

@DrMeatBoy I honestly have no idea. And I tend to always put a question mark after his name (Steve?), you know. :D

— notch (@notch) November 22, 2010

I hope its 'Steve?' cuz I want the flames to rise as high as possible.

 

[Luigi The President]

And y'know what? We could've said the exact same thing about franchises like Monster Hunter now having potential for all of those three things. While yes, there's a definite difference between Minecraft and MonHun, you can't deny that it's grown to become an Animal Crossing-esque behemoth of a franchise as of recent years. Every franchise involved in Smash one way or another is gonna be handled differently; some more than others, and some less. This is why I don't believe in "slots", rather, I believe in looking at franchises at a representation level to try and be fair as possible.

And I will argue continually that Minecraft outweighs Monster Hunter by a ton no matter how big MonHun is.

There's a definite difference between Microsoft and Capcom is what sticks out the most to me.