Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Gatekeeping what we say in Smash speculation
...but you're trying to ward off people discussing Steve at Minecon?

Tots you know I love you I just had to point out that bit. Doesn't seem right to me.

There's a clear difference between trying to make a point with what Sakurai has officially stated in magazines and people who have a platform telling people to "not use words like "deserving" in Smash speculation, kthx". If something happens at Minecon, nice, more Smash info, but looking at history, I just can't see two newcomers in one month.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I can't imagine FE getting another unique newcomer with our limited newcomer count, but I can't image Celica as a Robin echo either since his slow playstyle doesn't really match her swift movements. Yeah Robin wasn't exactly slow in Awakening but Celica is practically dances when she moves in echoes. I joked about her being a Marth echo before, but I honestly think that would make more sense for her then being an echo of Robin.

In an interview about Corrin, Sakurai admitted he was a little reluctant since Smash already had so FE characters already, and that Corrin was only added because he had so much potential to be unique. The more FE we get, the less likely we are to get more after that. I don't see why so many people treat it like a Pokemon scenario where they expect a new FE character to be a lock. IS might push for one, but Sakurai still has the full ability to turn them down if he doesn't want to.

I can maybe see another echo if we FE fans get really lucky, but there will be no more unique FE newcomers in the base roster. I can almost guarantee it.

 

[amazonevan19]

so no steve announcement at minecon right? Considering no headlines when I checked google news and no general freakout

 

[Paperchampion23]

Not gonna lie if Celica's an echo I'll be disappointed in a similar way to how Dark Samus disappointed me

Honestly, I really can't see her as a robin echo. There's a finesse about her that Robin doesn't have when he attacks. It'd be weird.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sorry, I missed Minecon because I was doing literally anything else; can anyone fill me in on all the news?

Also I missed RuPaul's DragCon, so a recap of the Smash news at that would also be welcome.

They're working on multiple other spin-off games, with Minecraft Dungeon being the new big announcement.

In addition, lots of other updates. I didn't see them all, but alchemy stuff is just one of them.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I do think expecting Steve being revealed at Minecon was a bit ridiculous. I mean there was absolutely no evidence or hints or anything that would point to a Nintendo Smasg announcement at a Microsoft Mincraft convention.

Speculating about it I can see but outright expecting it is just ignoring what the con is actually about. Minecraft. Smash showing up was unlikely from the beginning and I feel like most people should've known that. No harm in speculating about it but if you were expecting it, well, you shouldn't have.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

They were both entirely unrealistic because neither is a Nintendo direct.
Nintendo hyped EVO because their games are there. No more, no less. Let's stop pretending otherwise. That's the only real context to begin with. Anything else is laughable, honestly. And always will be. They weren't promoting anything else. Of course they're going to promote their games. Duh. There was zero legitimate foreshadowing to begin with. That was expecting something that wasn't treated as realistic. Everybody dismissed the idea of EVO having any real Smash news, and despite the fact I kept my mind open, I even thought it was impossible, like all non-regular Nintendo direct events(or them doing so randomly outside of any event).

Also, making bad hyperbolic comparisons doesn't do anything for your case. So that I will dismiss for good reasons. Nobody said "anything is possible". To pretend that's what being openminded means is a severely ridiculous comparison. That is not what being openminded means, and you know it.

My dude, you're being absolutely absurd. Is this really the hill you want to die on, trying to paint expecting Smash at Minecon the same as expecting a reveal at a fighting game convention that Smash Ultimate was literally advertised as being at with a giant Nintendo presence and everything?

Condescension isn't going to save your argument, so you can stop talking to people like they're stupid for disagreeing. All people are trying to say is that you're drawing comparisons that have no business being drawn. I really don't know how I can state it any more plainly. They aren't comparable. At all.

EVO:
Smash was at it
Nintendo was at it
Smash Ultimate was at it
It has historically been a place to show off new fighting game content
SMASH WAS ACTUALLY AT IT

Minecon:
Leakers say Steve is possibly in maybe

If you seriously expect Minecon to have a Smash reveal and are disappointed when there inevitably isn't one, that's entirely on you. Absence of Evidence isn't a strong enough argument to make Smash at Minecon anything more than wishful thinking and there's no crime in treating it as such. Evo was different, because we had outside precedent combined with promising signs. Didn't pan out. Oh well.

 

[Noipoi]

so no steve announcement at minecon right? Considering no headlines when I checked google news and no general freakout

Nope. Block boy isn't in Smash.
YET.

 

[hposter]

Also I missed RuPaul's DragCon, so a recap of the Smash news at that would also be welcome.

Only a stage so no characters, but still a wild reveal.

 

[Luigi The President]

Never thought I'd be this damn confident in Steve joining Smash literally ever

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, I really can't see her as a robin echo. There's a finesse about her that Robin doesn't have when he attacks. It'd be weird.

Not even that or the fact Robin's gimmick was from something all but 2 Fire Emblem games had, including Celica's. My issue is that it's just wasted potential, a Pichu-esque glass cannon? With multiple spells and even a Mila's Turnwheel gimmick if you tried hard enough? That ****'s great

 

[CosmicQuark]

Lol don't worry I'd want him too, but I left space for Rayman and Banjo since they have either history with Nintendo (Banjo) or have a good partnership (Ubisoft). I have no idea what Activision thinks about putting Spyro or Crash in, though both trilogies are releasing for the switch so I can totally see them now.

I think Crash is very likely for DLC with the N-Sane Trilogy increasing his popularity as of late. And there's a selfish reason I'd love him--you'd have Mario (Nintendo's mascot), Sonic (Sega's mascot), potentially Banjo (Microsoft IP), and potentially Crash (Sony's former mascot) all in one game. That would be amazing. I think Activision, like almost every company (e.g., Capcom, Microsoft, Disney) would love to see their character in Smash for the publicity. It all comes down to whether Sakurai would ask them (not to brush aside legal hurdles, it's just that's the first major hurdle).

Ideally we'd have a game with Mario, Sonic, Megaman, Pac-Man, Bomberman, Crash, Rayman--all of the famous mascots coming together. RIP Bomberman.

(I leave out Master Chief, as he's an example of a mascot that's never been on Nintendo, which I still consider to be an important, but not absolute, rule).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My dude, you're being absolutely absurd. Is this really the hill you want to die on, trying to paint expecting Smash at Minecon the same as expecting a reveal at a fighting game convention that Smash Ultimate was literally advertised as being at with a giant Nintendo presence and everything?

Condescension isn't going to save your argument, so you can stop talking to people like they're stupid for disagreeing. All people are trying to say is that you're drawing comparisons that have no business being drawn. I really don't know how I can state it any more plainly. They aren't comparable. At all.

EVO:
Smash was at it
Nintendo was at it
Smash Ultimate was at it
It has historically been a place to show off new fighting game content
SMASH WAS ACTUALLY AT IT

Minecon:
Leakers say Steve is possibly in maybe

If you seriously expect Minecon to have a Smash reveal and are disappointed when there inevitably isn't one, that's entirely on you. Absence of Evidence isn't a strong enough argument to make Smash at Minecon anything more than wishful thinking and there's no crime in treating it as such. Evo was different, because we had outside precedent combined with promising signs. Didn't pan out. Oh well.

lol, nobody was expecting Steve announced at Minecon. Learn to read. It was the opposite. Nobody was expecting EVO to have any Smash announcements or any Smash announcements at anything but a Nintendo direct. Period. EVO proved how wrong that was, which means people now should keep an open mind, which isn't meaning expecting anything, but not dismissing it outright instead. That's the difference.

Try again.

I do think expecting Steve being revealed at Minecon was a bit ridiculous. I mean there was absolutely no evidence or hints or anything that would point to a Nintendo Smasg announcement at a Microsoft Mincraft convention.

Speculating about it I can see but outright expecting it is just ignoring what the con is actually about. Minecraft. Smash showing up was unlikely from the beginning and I feel like most people should've known that. No harm in speculating about it but if you were expecting it, well, you shouldn't have.

Nobody expected an actual Smash announcement. People were openminded at the thought it could happen. That's all there is to it.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Unrelated to the current discussion, but after a few weeks I managed to piece together my full views on the whole Bowsette/Super Crown fiasco, as well as New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe as a whole.

I still cannot imagine the thought processes behind adding the features that they did in New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe. They fail to address the problems people have with the New Super Mario Bros. games, thereby failing to justify the purchase for knowledgeable, skeptical consumers. This is especially crazy when you consider that New Super Mario Bros. U was a Wii U launch title, and thus has been available to the console's market for its entire lifespan, unlike something more recent like Splatoon that everyone's still pretty new to.

Everyone complains that the two Toads are a waste of potential character usage, so they replace one Toad with… a character that's still a Toad, yet Nintendo jumps through all these bizarre self-imposed hoops to justify it by giving them an exclusive power-up. You know, instead of just using a character who not only recently used similar powers by default, but that fans are ravenous for more of. I'm not even a Daisy fan, but this was a missed opportunity to please the Mario fan community and instead you just confused them. And before you come at me with "oh that'd just be lazy" yes, it is lazy, but it makes more sense to have Daisy with Peach's abilities than a Toad who needs a special power-up that only they can collect to get Peach's abilities.

Either way, now they have this weird gimmick character in a series that usually gives all player characters the same abilities. New Super Luigi U had the same four-player problem where someone's gonna have to sucker up and choose the easy mode character. I don't know if I'd prefer both Toads remaining, but the whole conundrum is moot since they clearly had people to sculpt, rig, and animate new models for this game. They could easily have readded a fourth "normal" character. Am I the only one bugged by this?

People also complain about the asset reuse across the series, and it's entirely intact here, just slightly built on top of. Nintendo added in, like, three new models onto the base game, and called it a day as far as that issue was concerned.

I guess the Super Crown does count as taking risks, but games like Super Mario Odyssey have been plenty risky without throwing the audience for a total loop. In that game, the new elements are well-explained from both mechanical and in-universe viewpoints. I highly doubt that Nintendo will ever explain the Super Crown, and this is frustrating to me because it creates a lot of plot holes in a series with no story. Nintendo seemingly didn't even consider what would happen if you put the Super Crown on other characters, so I'll be really surprised if it's ever mentioned again, especially now that the Internet has shown them the logical conclusions.

On some level, I think Bowsette is an attempt to rationalize our obvious questions about this game, but since it's a fandom creation, it doesn't really impact my opinion of New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe as a game. But I do think it further drags down its value as a product. Go to Twitter and you can see, for free, hundreds of pieces of fanart for a joke fan creation that's arguably more compelling and well-thought-out than the $60 game it's based on. That's pretty sad, in my opinion.

Spoiler

Also people clearly like the idea of femme fatale in Mario games.

Either bring back Captain Syrup or make a new character. Even if it's just for spin-offs a la Waluigi, do it. It's a niche that clearly people like (Bowsette, Shadow Queen, Syrup, etc.) and could easily be capitalized on.

I agree with you on almost everything.
I honestly like having the toads as playable characters. What always bugged me is that you can't play as a regular toad, you must choose between a yellow and a blue toad.
They added Toadette in this game, ok, that's cool, then, what's the point of having a yellow toad when you can have the regular red one instead?

Also, it's totally cool to have additional characters with special abilities, such as Daisy, Wario, and even Peach maybe, as an endgame unlockable (well, even Rosalina); as long as you keep also Toad and Toadette in the game as the characters who keep Mario's regular gameplay, to give the option to do a balanced multiplayer. All you need is to make the characters optional (no idiot things like complete every level with a golden flag with every character).

I dislike the Peachette transformation because, they finally added a character with slighty more identity than a recolored toad, and then, they overshadowed it by making it transform into another more popular character. That's stupid IMO, they totally did it to slap a Peach on the boxart of the game and that's the only reason.
It's like, they finally put King K Rool in Smash, but 30 seconds after you play as him, he transforms into a Yoshi. Ok, so what's the point of having King K Rool?
The gameplay of Peachette comes from Super Mario Run, they only did some copy-paste since I believe that said game runs in the same engine as the New Mario games.

This said, from what I know, the Super Crown is optional, Toadette seems to be able to use all the power ups the other characters can use (fire, ice, etc...), so maybe you can just avoid getting the crown and play normally.
This or maybe the crown replaces the acorn, I'm not sure.

In conclusion, yes, they should bring back Captain Syrup and marge her with the main Mario universe just like they already did for many -kong characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

lol, nobody was expecting Steve announced at Minecon. Learn to read. It was the opposite. Nobody was expecting EVO to have any Smash announcements or any Smash announcements at anything but a Nintendo direct. Period.

Try again.


Nobody expected an actual Smash announcement. People were openminded at the thought it could happen. That's all there is to it.

Irene, go back to this thread, LOTS of people expected EVO news.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

lol, nobody was expecting Steve announced at Minecon. Learn to read. It was the opposite. Nobody was expecting EVO to have any Smash announcements or any Smash announcements at anything but a Nintendo direct. Period.

Try again.


Nobody expected an actual Smash announcement. People were openminded at the thought it could happen. That's all there is to it.

Of course some people expected it, the number may be small here but the internet is bigger than Smashboards. And no, I'm not going to pretend that "being open minded" means we should entertain every silly little conception that flies past us. We evaluated it. It didn't check out. And no amount of trying to compare the situation to Evo is going to convince me that Minecon at Smash isn't a silly thought.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In conclusion, yes, they should bring back Captain Syrup and marge her with the main Mario universe just like they already did for many -kong characters.

She simply needs a large Smash campaign like for King K. Rool for that to happen.

 

[Aerospherology]

An Echo of an Echo perhaps

but that would be a full character then

 

[Paperchampion23]

Not even that or the fact Robin's gimmick was from something all but 2 Fire Emblem games had, including Celica's. My issue is that it's just wasted potential, a Pichu-esque glass cannon? With multiple spells and even a Mila's Turnwheel gimmick if you tried hard enough? That ****'s great

True, hopefully if they based her character off Robin in a way, it'd be in the least more like Isabelle. Give her an entirely different neutral B and Side-B in the least with different normals and smash attacks.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Never thought I'd be this damn confident in Steve joining Smash literally ever

I'm still 99%confident he's not happening as a base game character. Otherwise, yeah, never thought I'd see the day that Steve is a likely candidate for Smash DLC.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True, hopefully if they based her character off Robin in a way, it'd be in the least more like Isabelle. Give her an entirely different neutral B and Side-B in the least with different normals and smash attacks.

Honestly best case scenario is a double pack of Alm and Celica as unique fighters in DLC. I say best case because not only do I get these good kids but I also get to sustain on another millennium of salt

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm still 99%confident he's not happening as a base game character. Otherwise, yeah, never thought I'd see the day that Steve is a likely candidate for Smash DLC.

And I am very confident he's in the base game myself. I'm just absolutely convinced he's happening.
Refuse to believe they'd give MINECRAFT representation but no character, you know?

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I'm still 99%confident he's not happening as a base game character. Otherwise, yeah, never thought I'd see the day that Steve is a likely candidate for Smash DLC.

I think Cloud was the moment we had to throw our hands in the air and go "WELP." Things have been significantly more fun since then.

 

[The_Naraotor]

We can always discuss the idea of a Street Fighter Assist Trophy. What about Blanka?

I think Sagat would be more interesting.

 

[Noipoi]

What would Steve's final smash even be?

Would he enter creative mode and just go nuts?

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'm still 99%confident he's not happening as a base game character. Otherwise, yeah, never thought I'd see the day that Steve is a likely candidate for Smash DLC.

At the beginning of the speculation cycle, I considered Steve to be virtually impossible. Can never say impossible, as any statistically-minded thinker should, but he doesn't have the history with Nintendo nor the creative moveset (IMHO) as other characters, as well as essentially being a meme character at the beginning, like Waluigi. I do have to take recent rumors seriously, so I've bumped him up from virtually impossible to incredibly unlikely. Best I can do for the time being.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And I am very confident he's in the base game myself. I'm just absolutely convinced he's happening.
Refuse to believe they'd give MINECRAFT representation but no character, you know?

I mean Monster Hunter's in a similar position so...

I think Sagat would be more interesting.

There is nothing interesting about TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean Monster Hunter's in a similar position so...

There is nothing interesting about TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT

And Monster Hunter simply is nowhere near Minecraft in the grand scheme of things.

I don't really know why they'd collaborate with MICROSOFT of all people, who objectively seem to be much harder to work with Nintendo-wise than Capcom, for a simple stage or assist trophy.

 

[Will]

What would Steve's final smash even be?

Would he enter creative mode and just go nuts?

At its simplest?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Irene, go back to this thread, LOTS of people expected EVO news.

And were harshly dismissed over and over because they were was zero good reason to expect any EVO news as is. It was a pure lucky surprise we got any.

Nintendo honestly shouldn't have bothered, as they made things worse. On the other hand, at least people were realistic about Minecon entirely. Nobody was expecting anything there, but EVO proved to be openminded as is(not expecting, just to keep an eye out, which is a logical thing to do).

Never thought I'd be this damn confident in Steve joining Smash literally ever

Same. Though not as confident as you are, Minecraft content is pretty much a guarantee for Microsoft stuff. Playable Steve is harder to say, but he's looking more likely every day. I'd say base, but I'm not sure. DLC is tougher to say due to some controversy. It's like putting Wii Fit Trainer as DLC. Awesome character, but there's too many fans who won't accept a major character getting in due to bias, so...

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I mean Monster Hunter's in a similar position so...

There is nothing interesting about TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT

If he shoots out Cornflakes instead, I'm sold.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, I just got the best B day gift ever...We went on vacation in Atlanta, which conve8ntly has a Smash Ultimate demo. Best birthday ever. When I come back. You all can ask me questions, how it played etc. (hope that doesn’t sound egotistical?)

 

[CosmicQuark]

And Monster Hunter simply is nowhere near Minecraft in the grand scheme of things.

I don't really know why they'd collaborate with MICROSOFT of all people, who objectively seem to be much harder to work with Nintendo-wise than Capcom, for a simple stage or assist trophy.

Friendly reminder that not everyone is saying Microsoft is coming with only a stage/assist.

 

[Luigi The President]

Friendly reminder that not everyone is saying Microsoft is coming with only a stage/assist.

I mean...yea B&K could totally come along and I'd love that. I just don't see it as too likely. But again it'd be awesome (esp for you).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If he shoots out Cornflakes instead, I'm sold.

Only if Bison pops in and head-stomps people while pointing at K.Rool and going "Listen you ************ you steal that move off of me and only use it as an entrance animation again I'm making 5927176 crocodile handbags the day after

 

[Iridium]

So, I just got the best B day gift ever...We went on vacation in Atlanta, which conve8ntly has a Smash Ultimate demo. Best birthday ever. When I come back. You all can ask me questions, how it played etc. (hope that doesn’t sound egotistical?)

I am aware of the event, but had no idea you live there!

Anyway, who did you play. Is there anything cool you can say you observed. Like, anything about characters we don't know already?

Did you play Link? I'm failing to see new footage.

Edit: Quoting this for later.

 

[Noipoi]

So, I just got the best B day gift ever...We went on vacation in Atlanta, which conve8ntly has a Smash Ultimate demo. Best birthday ever. When I come back. You all can ask me questions, how it played etc. (hope that doesn’t sound egotistical?)

Did you play Squids?
I need to know about Squids.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I am aware of the event, but had no idea you live there!

Anyway, who did you play. Is there anything cool you can say you observed. Like, anything about characters we don't know already?

Did you play Link? I'm failing to see new footage.

I said when I get back But I will get footage for you!

 

[Paperchampion23]

I mean...yea B&K could totally come along and I'd love that. I just don't see it as too likely. But again it'd be awesome (esp for you).

I do think Minecraft may be a step towards that. I personally can't see a Nintedo/Microsoft partnership this close and Sakurai not take advantage of not only getting the 2nd biggest franchise ever represented, but also getting the last big Nintendo 64 series in Smash. That right there seems like a massive wasted opportunity, moreso than Geno and Square Enix, and especially considering Banjo was considered a Nintendo mascot for years.

 

[Iridium]

I said when I get back But I will get footage for you!

Yeah, just noticed. Well, I'll quote the post later then.