Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZenythSmash]

He heard "'possibly' a character" from his main Smash sources as well, but if he heard from all 3 he didn't clarify.

edit:

Spoiler: source

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comm...e_by_snk_just_announced_in/e6blbnp/?context=3

"possibly" is only based how Minecaft presence is probably gonna be like once they find out
not much of a update on information aside Verge "leaning" to it

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

EVO is nothing more than a large gaming event. Minecon is nothing more than a large gaming event. So are many other things. There is still no serious difference to begin with. People are looking for stuff that isn't there again. It doesn't remotely matter if one is heavily about fighting games. And no, people were actually severely surprised we got actual Smash information at EVO. Want to know why? It was considered a case of "Nintendo does not announce anything at events they don't specifically hold, themselves." The fact it even happened was an extremely huge surprise and those twitters? They were people who were easily dismissed as being unrealistic. It was completely unrealistic to expect a Smash announcement.

Large gaming events may or may not have announcements related to Smash. Never expect it. Be surprised if somehow it happens. You're looking for differences that don't legitimately exist. EVO is the same thing as Minecon. Just an event for a specific genre or game series. No more, no less.

Allow me to quote someone loosely who talked about EVO; "EVO won't have any Smash announcements." Said on this forum, more than once. It wasn't remotely expected, and people didn't seriously care about Smash Ultimate even being there, they just cared about the fact it was a gaming event about fighting games. If there's a remote chance Smash could be involved among a series, people think there's a tiny chance a Smash announcement could happen. The genre/series of what the event is about has little bearing on this. You'd think EVO having Smash alone would've mattered, but it actually didn't. It didn't make a difference to people. And for good reasons. It never mattered to begin with in people's opinions. Keep in mind the difference you see might make sense, if we're talking about what is realistically going to happen. But I'm talking about expectations, not just what will happen. People expect things as is that might seem odd. The human race is weird sometimes. I mean, people clung onto to the even worse chair theory super hard when it made little sense(at least Minecon having the tiniest chance of having Smash content, obviously announced by Nintendo/Sakurai has some real logic to it. And nobody considers it likely, so it's not like it happening is expected anyway). Besides, Mincon is still going, so...

In fact, the "large announcement being over" should've killed the expectations, the only actual real point of evidence towards a Smash announcement not happening. As it's the only thing they tweeted.

Smash was explicitly advertised as having an EVO presence. Minecon is not. Your comparison is absurd.

 

[TheCJBrine]

"possibly" is only based how Minecaft presence is probably gonna be like once they find out
not much of a update on information aside Verge "leaning" to it

I know it's not definite, but it's still possible.

At least we're most-likely getting a stage and maybe a Creeper AT

 

[CosmicQuark]

he didn't hear a character aside a murmur and Hitagi saying Steve is a character in Ultimate
unless his "3 main smash sources" do get info that Steve is happening, like with Incineroar, there we freaking go.

It's one of the reasons, trying very hard to keep my biases aside, why I'm certain there's probably Minecraft content, much more unlikely for there to be a character--or if there is one, perhaps it makes sense as DLC. It's only recently that we've heard from the shaky leaker that he thinks a character is in, but we don't know when Verge's non-main sources heard murmers of there being a *character*. We also don't know the trustworthiness of these sources, or if they're the same, given we don't know how Hitagi corroborates his sources, unlike Verge.

And it makes sense that nothing was said at Minecon, even if Minecraft content is in Smash, because Nintendo tries very hard to control information. EVO wasn't different--it's why they merely announced a Direct, rather than show it at EVO, it was the equivalent to a Twitter announcement. Whereas in neither EVO nor Minecon can they guarantee Nintendo and Smash fans would be watching--it's why information about their games only come from official Nintendo sources. Ubisoft could be considered an outlier, except Star Link isn't Nintendo's game--it's an Ubisoft game with Nintendo content in it. And, in fact, I saw many Nintendo fans confused when watching Nintendo Directs, not knowing what Star Link was or its connection with Star Fox. That's the exact situation Nintendo wants to avoid with their own games.

And so just like an Ubisoft game with Nintendo content makes sense to be shown off by Ubisoft--if there's Microsoft content in a Nintendo game, like Smash, we can assume we'll see it in an official Nintendo presentation. Though, out of fairness, if we want to talk about Banjo in the lead up to the XO18 conference in November, I'm not gonna complain.

 

[Nekoo]

I take it from the casual/Boring discussion and people being surprised that nothing was announced at Minecon, comparing EVO with Minecon, that nothing happened?

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Prince Denas

Spoiler: Veznan

From Kingdom Rush?

 

[Cosmic77]

I might be able to take a possible Smash announcement at Minecon more seriously if Nintendo had done literally anything remotely close to that before in the past.

Not saying it's impossible, but there's probably a reason why Nintendo saves reveals (including third-parties) for their own presentations. Why show off Steve at Minecon when you could reveal him in a Nintendo Direct? Y'know, those video presentations made specifically for consumers interested in Nintendo's products.

 

[NextChannelGames]

It's one of the reasons, trying very hard to keep my biases aside, why I'm certain there's probably Minecraft content, much more unlikely for there to be a character--or if there is one, perhaps it makes sense as DLC. It's only recently that we've heard from the shaky leaker that he thinks a character is in, but we don't know when Verge's non-main sources heard murmers of there being a *character*. We also don't know the trustworthiness of these sources, or if they're the same, given we don't know how Hitagi corroborates his sources, unlike Verge.

And it makes sense that nothing was said at Minecon, even if Minecraft content is in Smash, because Nintendo tries very hard to control information. EVO wasn't different--it's why they merely announced a Direct, rather than show it at EVO, it was the equivalent to a Twitter announcement. Whereas in neither EVO nor Minecon can they guarantee Nintendo and Smash fans would be watching--it's why information about their games only come from official Nintendo sources. Ubisoft could be considered an outlier, except Star Link isn't Nintendo's game--it's an Ubisoft game with Nintendo content in it. And, in fact, I saw many Nintendo fans confused when watching Nintendo Directs, not knowing what Star Link was or its connection with Star Fox. That's the exact situation Nintendo wants to avoid with their own games.

And so just like an Ubisoft game with Nintendo content makes sense to be shown off by Ubisoft--if there's Microsoft content in a Nintendo game, like Smash, we can assume we'll see it in an official Nintendo presentation. Though, out of fairness, if we want to talk about Banjo in the lead up to the XO18 conference in November, I'm not gonna complain.

You make a great point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Smash was explicitly advertised as having an EVO presence. Minecon is not. Your comparison is absurd.

Which had absolutely nothing to do with Nintendo announcing anything legitimately Smash-related beyond the fact two games(one a demo) was there. That's what they were announcing with the tweets. No more. No less.

Nobody was expecting an actual proper Smash announcement there. It was 100% absurd as an idea and treated as such by the majority of people, except those who actually knew of the announcement.

Try again. We need to stop pretending that the fact EVO has Smash stuff even remotely mattered at all. Even if it didn't, people would've still thought a Smash announcement was impossible there(just like they thought even with the fact Smash Ultimate's demo was there). That's what was actually happening.

People are still looking for something that was completely irrelevant in the first place. If there was no Smash content as is at EVO? Nintendo still would've looked at it as a great time to announce a Smash direct. Why? Because it's a Fighting Game Convention. That's why it was a good timing in reality.

The comparison is perfect for one reason; it has nothing to do with reality. That's an awful argument that nobody can back up. It's about expectations. Minecon and EVO had/has the exact same chance as having any Smash announcement. Almost none. Just like every. Single. Event. It'll always be that. Nobody expects it outside of an actual regular Nintendo direct at best. And they shouldn't expect it to happen beyond that. But that's not what's happening. EVO completely changed expectations, and now people are clinging to every Event with the silly idea they likely would show it because it's a big event. But that doesn't make it likely. Thankfully the thread here actually has tempered their expectations to be the same as EVO, "Unlikely to happen", the most logical way to look at it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think the Minecraft Dungeons Trailer is better for Steve in Smash then expected.

Here's how they can animate Steve in Smash right here.

 

[Nekoo]

TBVH the fact that Nintendo was behind EVO at least give it more hope for something to be announced there than ****ing Minecons.

Good comparison or not, that's the important factor here.

 

[Will]

I think the Minecraft Dungeons Trailer is better for Steve in Smash then expected.

Here's how they can animate Steve in Smash right here.

Plot Twist: The Smash CG Trailer guys (i can never remember their names) were behind this trailer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

TBVH the fact that Nintendo was behind EVO at least give it more hope for something to be announced there than ****ing Minecons.

Good comparison or not, that's the important factor here.

Nintendo wasn't "behind" EVO to begin with.

They were just advertising the fact two of their games was there(one regular, one demo). Let's not pretend there was an actual point behind those tweets beyond that. That's what they meant to do, to get people to watch their games.

People still didn't expect an actual Smash announcement there because the idea was still extremely absurd. The fact it happened was still a huge surprise to many, which this site exploded with hype over it. Nobody was hyped for the tweets either, as the expectations were kept realistic, just "oh, hey, our games are here. Go watch!".

If that was the case, then we would've gotten real Smash information from the various weekend Smash tourneys in Japan. We didn't. The tweets were not pointing at any real Smash information. Wasn't their purpose to begin with. Why wouldn't they tell people to watch something that their games are at? That's the point.

 

[Chrono.]

69 days left until the launch of Ultimate.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Here's my 100 roster, basically what most people want or expect, mixed with some of my own personal wants.

Spoiler

I'll go through them for fun:

Spoiler

73. Incineroar- Basically confirmed at this point, but I've also grown to like his design and can see his moveset being really unique.
74. Dixie- Fairly standard of "this is so painfully obvious, why isn't she in yet" kind of deal. Isabelle-esque newcomer.
75. Skull Kid- Zelda is dire need of a unique newcomer, as the series is honestly poorly represented IMO (3 links/Ganon is based off of another character)
76. Impa- Sheik Echo with a few moveset differences
77. Masked Man- Super unique fighter with a sword and blaster and would differentiate himself from the other PSI users.
78. Porky- Another villain heavy, enough said. Probably my most requested character
79. BWD- This one is for the fans and the last of the main cast in the modern Kirby games.
80. Hades-Villain heavy mage. Has an awesome design.
81. Medusa- Palutena Echo,
82. Hector- An Axe FE user. Unique and FE 7 should be represented properly. I'd also call for Ephraim and FE 8 but if I'd have to choose, its Hector. However, due to the way FE is being represented (usually by relevancy), I'd say Edelgard will be our axe user in the future, due to Three Houses.
83. Celica- Robin Echo. For the FE 2/15 representation and she is by far the most relevant FE character at the moment with Echoes being a recent addition. She could very well be an echo, but I also could see her as an Isabelle-esque character to Robin.
84. Black Knight- Ike Echo (becoming a meme now). FE needs a villain though so he'd be perfect.
85. Black Shadow- Captain Falcon echo. Would use Ganondorf's melee moveset with a few updates. I'd also want him in for the hopes of one day making Ganondorf his own fully unique character.
86. Shadow- Expected echo for Sonic
87. Ken- Like Shadow is expected and possibly leaked already.
88. Reyn- My favorite Xenoblade character, personal bias and his odd non-inclusion in the game leaves me hopeful.
89. Kamek- Would be neat to have a villain mage and Yoshi to have one of his villains.
90. Isaac- GS is one of the last big Nintendo franchises not represented. He deserves a spot.
91. Felix- As much a character as Isaac is, if not even more.
92. Chorus Kids- Ends the Smash 4 debacle and like GS, Rhythm heaven is one of the last big Nintendo series without a rep.
93. Spring Man- While popularity did not fully let the game survive post launch, ARMS is popular, I can see it.
94. Sora- KH3 is releasing and I'm more than confident in SE doing rereleases of KH 1.5/2.5/2.8 and porting 3 to the Switch. He's currently SE's most relevant character atm so DLC may be a given for him.
95. Geno- This one is a special case. We all know why.
96. Heihachi- I know people are against this, but Bamco makes the game, Tekken is by far their biggest franchise, and Heihachi is by far their most popular character. Yoshimitsu is also another possible candidate as he'd cover both Tekken and Soul Calibur and is extremely popular but I'm not sure.
97. Phoenix Wright- I don't think I need to explain why people want him. His moveset would be hilarious and memorable.
98. Dante- If Bayonetta deserves to be in roster, Dante does even more. He pioneered the action Genre, and was even made by the same creator.
99. Rayman- Revamped the 2d platforming genre. One of 2 western 3rd parties I believe have a chance.
100. Banjo and Kazooie- The other. Yes, Steve might be in, but I think it will be a stage or AT over a character, and this is the real prize. My opinion.

I know its missing other's like Elma, Rex, Malos, etc. I'm biased to Reyn but Elma probably would take his spot, simply due to popularity

Anyway, thats what I got. 19 more Uniques lol and only like 9 echoes so I can't see this being entirely possible in the slightest. By the end of Smash Ultimates DLC, I can see ~half of these getting in. Maybe more, maybe less. The number of Uniques are what make it hard to predict, but it does leave possibilities for future smash games.

 

[CosmicQuark]

69 days left until the launch of Ultimate.

Fighter #69 going to be confirmed today--Number Theory*.

*how many branches of science/mathematics will we run through?

 

[Will]

69 days left until the launch of Ultimate.

69 days left...
Next fighter is #69...
Minecon is today...

HE'S IN BROS HE HAS TO BE THE STARS ARE ALIGNED FOR THIS MOMENT

 

[Nekoo]

Nintendo wasn't "behind" EVO to begin with.

They were just advertising the fact two of their games was there(one regular, one demo). Let's not pretend there was an actual point behind those tweets beyond that. That's what they meant to do, to get people to watch their games.

People still didn't expect an actual Smash announcement there because the idea was still extremely absurd. The fact it happened was still a huge surprise to many, which this site exploded with hype over it. Nobody was hyped for the tweets either, as the expectations were kept realistic, just "oh, hey, our games are here. Go watch!".

If that was the case, then we would've gotten real Smash information from the various weekend Smash tourneys in Japan. We didn't. The tweets were not pointing at any real Smash information. Wasn't their purpose to begin with. Why wouldn't they tell people to watch something that their games are at? That's the point.

What I meant was that Nintendo had a presence at EVO, with the two game, demo booth etc.
It's a known fact that almost everygames with Demo booth end up having a big reveal at EVO, whenever it was Tekken, Dragon Ball Fighters, The Arc System Games, Fighting Layer EX, Marvel vs Capcom etc...etc...
It became a tradition for Fighting games to reveal stuff there, the fact that Nintendo for the first time came at EVO, and presented a Demo of their Game. Anyone who watch EVO for a long times was happily surprised to see that Nintendo announced something here, but weren't like "It's out of nowhere".

What was HOWEVER surprising was that they did it between match of melee, but it's normal in retrospect since it was in the stadium, prime time watch instead of being announced in the middle of an exhibition.


But expecting something to be a Minecon, whatever rumor there is that Minecraft stuff is in smash is not logical, no matter what Gaming convention it is.

 

[Noipoi]

Noipoi , you missed a chance at something.

So I took the liberty of doing it instead.

Spoiler: Peachus

View attachment 167216

That's some good stuff!

I could've done something with Samus, but that joke was too good to pass up.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think the Minecraft Dungeons Trailer is better for Steve in Smash then expected.

Here's how they can animate Steve in Smash right here.

Dear God. Minecraft is such a ****ing ugly game.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

69 days left...
Next fighter is #69...
Minecon is today...

HE'S IN BROS HE HAS TO BE THE STARS ARE ALIGNED FOR THIS MOMENT

*SMASHBOARDS GOES INSANE*

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

69 days left until the launch of Ultimate.

Nice.

 

[Will]

Dear God. Minecraft is such a ****ing ugly game.

I think it's pretty cutesy actually.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What I meant was that Nintendo had a presence at EVO, with the two game, demo booth etc.
It's a known fact that almost everygames with Demo booth end up having a big reveal at EVO, whenever it was Tekken, Dragon Ball Fighters, The Arc System Games, Fighting Layer EX, Marvel vs Capcom etc...etc...
It became a tradition for Fighting games to reveal stuff there, the fact that Nintendo for the first time came at EVO, and presented a Demo of their Game. Anyone who watch EVO for a long times was happily surprised to see that Nintendo announced something here, but weren't like "It's out of nowhere".

What was HOWEVER surprising was that they did it between match of melee, but it's normal in retrospect since it was in the stadium, prime time watch instead of being announced in the middle of an exhibition.


But expecting something to be a Minecon, whatever rumor there is that Minecraft stuff is in smash is not logical, no matter what Gaming convention it is.

Yeah, you weren't that clear.

Despite this, that presence didn't change expectations. But now your argument makes a lot more sense. It still came entirely out of nowhere regardless.

That said, though the aftertalk for Minecon is going on, better to just expect nothing even then. Though I guess we wait it out, as we've gotten Smash information after e3 was done before(the Echo requirements by Bill, which is fully true, and Pac-Man's reveal). Nintendo is odd at how they let information loose to begin with. But it appears Sakurai is working harder to make sure things are a lot more easily accessible this time around for announcements, so a Shulk or Pac-Man reveal style shouldn't happen again. If we were going to get one during Minecon, it'd have been during the main event, not the aftertalk. I'd consider it "over" at this point, but eh.

 

[Deleted member]

> Isabelle was revealed two or so weeks ago
> "We announced Isabelle in the Nintendo Direct, however, it would be a mistake to think that the new character announcements will keep going [at this pace] until Smash Bros. releases. We may have been a little trigger-happy so we’ll be living modestly from here on out.” - Masahiro Sakurai
> Minecon censors the word "smash" most likely due to the fact that they wanna keep this as family friendly as possible and totally not because of any weird ****
> "Oh, they censored the word Smash? Steve's confirmed for Smash, they're gonna reveal him at Minecon"

Can we go back to debating legalities of Sora being in Smash? My guy, I'll take anything. CHAIRS even.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Can we go back to debating legalities of Sora being in Smash? My guy, I'll take anything. CHAIRS even.

We can always discuss the idea of a Street Fighter Assist Trophy. What about Blanka?

 

[Iridium]

Dear God. Minecraft is such a ****ing ugly game.

It works for them, but I'm not really a fan of the animation either.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Dear God. Minecraft is such a ****ing ugly game.

I'm actually wondering why they stuck with old textures, unless it just took a long time; they have a new artist who's working on redoing the game's textures for blocks and mobs and such, though still keeping them close to their original look, just making everything look more like it's the same artstyle and smoothing some things out.

Though I'm now also wondering why they don't use their official artstyle that's on the website and merchandise for at least something in their games

 

[Will]

I'm actually wondering why they stuck with old textures, unless it just took a long time; they have a new artist who's working on redoing the game's textures for blocks and mobs and such, though still keeping them close to their original look, just making everything look more like it's the same artstyle and smoothing some things out.

How the **** do they smooth out something that's supposed to be a cube

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

> Isabelle was revealed two or so weeks ago
> "We announced Isabelle in the Nintendo Direct, however, it would be a mistake to think that the new character announcements will keep going [at this pace] until Smash Bros. releases. We may have been a little trigger-happy so we’ll be living modestly from here on out.” - Masahiro Sakurai
> Minecon censors the word "smash" most likely due to the fact that they wanna keep this as family friendly as possible and totally not because of any weird ****
> "Oh, they censored the word Smash? Steve's confirmed for Smash, they're gonna reveal him at Minecon"

View attachment 167222

Can we go back to debating legalities of Sora being in Smash? My guy, I'll take anything. CHAIRS even.

Please stop with spamming these reaction images. And you are not required to actually join in on a conversation you don't like. You are free to change the topic, but just complaining about the topic with reaction images borders as spam.

So please stop doing so and be more constructive.

 

[Deleted member]

We can always discuss the idea of a Street Fighter Assist Trophy. What about Blanka?

Blanka should've been an AT to begin with, tbh. But the REAL AT should be Dan.

 

[DevaAshera]

I dunno, I would have thought Pac-man would be simpler and he's very animated (though I'm glad they kept his face simple). I have a feeling if Steve is in, he will be a little more expressive.

Pac-Man has always been very animated in his artwork as well as most of his games, honestly, just look at Super Pac-Man. Here's art from his original arcade releases and Super Pac-Man.

Spoiler

https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/74/77173.png

It'd be hard for Steve to be too expressive with his facial style while still being accurate to the source material, which Sakurai values.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Fighter #69 going to be confirmed today--Number Theory*.

*how many branches of science/mathematics will we run through?

Don't dare to bring a number theory here, the Kamen Rider fanbase is bad enough about that.

 

[Electrick_EEL]

Someone on Gamefaqs made this in defense of Celica

 

[Will]

Don't dare to bring a number theory here, the Kamen Rider fanbase is bad enough about that.

It wouldn't be the first number theory about this game.

 

[TheCJBrine]

How the **** do they smooth out something that's supposed to be a cube

idk; it was actually weird to begin with, textures looking like plastic or like they're trying to give off the impression that it's on a round surface instead of the flat face of a cube, but they got better overtime, and the new textures still aren't done and aren't even released. By "smoothing out," I was just trying to find a way to describe how some blocks look a little blurred though still good, instead of having obviously separated sections.

 

[Nekoo]

Can we go back to debating legalities of Sora being in Smash? My guy, I'll take anything.

Yeah, easy. I'll do it in one sentence for you, without any debate.

Sora is owned by Disney, the concept, characters, design, everything. However, they're are in a partnership/Gentleman rules with Square-Enix and more precisely Nomura and ever since around Birth By Sleep let him have free reign to manage the franchise and doesn't impose any choice of worlds anymore.
Disney do the same, they want to use something Kingdom Hearts and especially Sora? They'll go get the Okay from Nomura out of that Gentleman Rules.
So, if Sakurai go to Disney to get Sora's legal right, they will themselve asks Nomura for a Yes or No (Or If he go to Square Enix, Nomura will be the Link between Nintendo and Disney) And in the end, they will probably let the representation supervision of Sora to Nomura as it's his creation.

Basically, it's not that complicated, Disney keychain or whatever, it all comes down to the two to say "yes." And no, Disney won't force any Non video game **** stuff in our throat. Don't worry.

However, I still believe we will get a Dragon Quest characters, and internally prey for Eight.

Even if Sora is my Number 1 I can see how he will probably be DLC rather than Base game.

 

[Jchrono95]

Okay so if Dan were an AT could we get him to fight the Waluigi AT

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

69 days left...
Next fighter is #69...
Minecon is today...

HE'S IN BROS HE HAS TO BE THE STARS ARE ALIGNED FOR THIS MOMENT

There is only one character who the stars align for, and that's the spirit of the stars themselves

 

[Deleted member]

Please stop with spamming these reaction images. And you are not required to actually join in on a conversation you don't like. You are free to change the topic, but just complaining about the topic with reaction images borders as spam.

So please stop doing so and be more constructive.

Look, I'm sorry, but I just can't believe people are jumping to conclusions left and right about a single word being censored when we have clear-as-day evidence even from Sakurai HIMSELF about the pace of character reveals. More over, when have they ever revealed anything that wasn't related to Minecraft in a MINECRAFT in convention?

I'm down for a reveal, but you have to meticulously plan this right. Two character reveals in a month? Yeah, no.