Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dee Dude]

She should be in the base game, without a doubt. Her being DLC would be somewhat disappointing but acceptable long term. But we won't need that. Hopefully.

Uh...why? She’ll be playable either way, the only difference is that she won’t get a CGI trailer which to be honest would feel awkward after that epic DK & Diddy vs K.Rool showdown.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Uh...why? She’ll be playable either way, the only difference is that she won’t get a CGI trailer which to be honest would feel awkward after that epic DK & Diddy vs K.Rool showdown.

Not their fault Dixie was busy during that fight

 

[Idon]

Uh...why? She’ll be playable either way, the only difference is that she won’t get a CGI trailer which to be honest would feel awkward after that epic DK & Diddy vs K.Rool showdown.

Actually, I'd prefer if my wanted characters were DLC.

The DLC characters have a ton more time and less deadlines to meet than a normal base character and it shows in how much love and care the characters have. All the DLC Newcomers for Smash 4 were fantastically implemented (if not poorly balanced) and I'd love if my most wanteds received that level of care.

 

[Ultinarok]

Uh...why? She’ll be playable either way, the only difference is that she won’t get a CGI trailer which to be honest would feel awkward after that epic DK & Diddy vs K.Rool showdown.

Because DLC costs additional money and requires waiting until post-launch to play as the character? Why would anyone NOT prefer their character be in the base roster? I'm sure we all would've loved to see Mewtwo and Lucas be in the base game of Smash 4. Yeah, they became playable and in the end it worked out, but not before waiting several months and forking over extra money. I'm confused why anyone would argue against this.

I guess feeling that the DLC fighters get extra love and therefore may be better in the end is a point in favor of DLC. But it's also not something that happens necessarily. There was nothing really special about Roy/Mewtwo/Lucas compared to previous appearances in Smash, and Corrin was cool and unique but ultimately no more unique than any other newcomer. Only Cloud (Limit Break, wow factor), Bayo (Witch Time, unique jump/special mechanics, gun damage etc) and Ryu (Inputs, two Final Smashes, wow factor) could be considered "special because they're DLC".

 

[MBRedboy31]

Not their fault Dixie was busy during that fight

It kind of is their fault, DK can only have Diddy, Dixie, or Cranky by his side at any given time when our on an adventure according to Tropical Freeze, the others just have to wait and hope DK picks them from one of the barrels.

 

[Erureido]

I couldn’t care less about a stupid music theory, verge, leaks, and whatever the community considers the “bull**** topic of the minute”. It’s all quite tiring and petty. I’ve basically checked out of the entire leak discussion after yesterday and really only pay attention to it since...well...it’s my job to. I just wanna discuss Smash speculation in its purest form; no matter how brain numbing it is.

Anyways,
Let’s say Sakurai once again holds a ballot but, this time, it’s the Ultimate Ballot! Instead of voting for a character, the ballot has spaces for:

• Character
• Stage
• Item
• Assist Trophy
• Pokeball Pokemon
• Boss
• Music

You can only vote for one per category obv. I’ll post mine up later so it’s easier for people to copy and paste if they want.

Let’s go!

Character: Professor Layton

Stage: London (similar to Castle Siege in regards to how it transitions; it lets you fight on London's major landmarks from the Layton series

Item: Beast Ball (summons Ultra Beasts)

Assist Trophy: Descole (Layton's main villain in the prequel trilogy, he comes out and attacks foes with a barrage of sword and brawling attacks with the addition of parkour-like movements)

Pokeball Pokemon: Lurantis (attacks foes with a powerful Solar Blade after charging)

Boss: Giratina's Origin Forme, complete with fighting it in a special Distortion World stage

Music: The main theme of Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy along with other Layton soundtracks.

 

[KingIceSonic]

Daily Reminder that this is NOT okay

Spoiler: Chrom.ugly.gov

 

[Idon]

Daily Reminder that this is NOT okay

Spoiler: Chrom.ugly.gov

View attachment 166862

Man, seeing it up close really makes the Awakening Falchion look small and dinky in Smash.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Suppose your most wanted character gets in as playable, but they have a playstyle that you just absolutely can’t stand, even if you can use them effectively at it, it’s a style you just don’t enjoy at all, would you still dedicate yourself to playing the character? Either competitively or casually? Or would you just be relieved and overjoyed that your favorite character got in and not really use them much?

Hmm, that’s actually a good topic...

I don’t know if I could really give an answer to that without actually seeing him playable and seeing how incompatible his moveset is with me, but I’ll gove it a shot. I’ll caveat this by saying that I don’t play competitively at all, and 99.99% of my playtime is vs. CPUs.

Having said that, I usually just get to like my favorite characters’ movesets. I’m used to mainly playing Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Ike, and other bottom-low tier trash, so viability is not a question in my mind. But I will say that a lot of Sm4sh’s characters’ reliance on gimmicks made them tough to handle, but a lot of that has to do with how much I like the character in general - Pokémon Trainer has one of the steepest learning curves since it is learning three movesets at once and being able to use them strategically, and that’s no problem for me. But Rosalina and the ICs require controlling two entities at once and I play them as well as a level 2 computer.

In terms of moveset propriety, I’ve been playing the Dorf for years, all the while hoping he’d get a decent overhaul. But even despite the fact he’s Captain Falcon deep down, I’ve gotten to the point where I do like a lot of his Smash moveset.

So I guess that, if Dovahkiin made it in, I would love him and his moveset regardless of how janky it is, simply because I think the character is awesome. I’d most likely force myself to play it and love it with a “hey, at least he’s in!” I can’t think of any way they could botch his moveset to the point I wouldn’t touch him.

 

[Ultinarok]

Daily Reminder that this is NOT okay

Spoiler: Chrom.ugly.gov

View attachment 166862

Pictures of Chrom are not OK? Is that because they fail to accurately capture his radiant allure and you must be sure that the whole world knows the Noble visage of Chrom? Are you Frederick?

 

[Idon]

Suppose your most wanted character gets in as playable, but they have a playstyle that you just absolutely can’t stand, even if you can use them effectively at it, it’s a style you just don’t enjoy at all, would you still dedicate yourself to playing the character? Either competitively or casually? Or would you just be relieved and overjoyed that your favorite character got in and not really use them much?

This is how I feel about Shulk:
I wanted this,

But I got this:

Doesn't exactly help that he's bottom tier either.

Either way, I'd push through as hard and hopefully eventually learn to like the character until I just give up and play a character I actually like playing.

Unfortunately, this didn't happen with Shulk and now he's in the "characters I put hundreds of hours into, but never play nowadays."

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Queen Boo

Bowsette's bosom buddy

 

[Deleted member]

This is how I feel about Shulk:
I wanted this,

But I got this:
View attachment 166865

Doesn't exactly help that he's bottom tier either.

Either way, I'd push through as hard and hopefully eventually learn to like the character until I just give up and play a character I actually like playing.

Unfortunately, this didn't happen with Shulk and now he's in the "characters I put hundreds of hours into, but never play nowadays."

Shulk is bad, but he’s not bottom tier.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a question.

Would you like more tier semi clones?

Or does that idea not appeal to you?

 

[link2702]

This is how I feel about Shulk:
I wanted this,

But I got this:
View attachment 166865

Doesn't exactly help that he's bottom tier either.

Either way, I'd push through as hard and hopefully eventually learn to like the character until I just give up and play a character I actually like playing.

Unfortunately, this didn't happen with Shulk and now he's in the "characters I put hundreds of hours into, but never play nowadays."

Heh...what’s funny is Shulk was the whole reason I brought the topic up originally at the geno boards.

Shulk was the character i was most excited for in 4, but from day one when i sat down to play him I just realized I hated his playstyle. I’m still happy he got in, but I never use him and never tried to learn his more complex tactics with monodo art cancels, since his core playstyle just feels so unenjoyable to me.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Today's blog is Death's Scythe.

The images are just taken from the press kit. I wonder if they're taken randomly or chosen in order.

 

[Ultinarok]

This is how I feel about Shulk:
I wanted this,

But I got this:
View attachment 166865

Doesn't exactly help that he's bottom tier either.

Either way, I'd push through as hard and hopefully eventually learn to like the character until I just give up and play a character I actually like playing.

Unfortunately, this didn't happen with Shulk and now he's in the "characters I put hundreds of hours into, but never play nowadays."

1. The canonically-sized Monado would be comically overpowered, so that wasn't happening.
2. Monado Arts are one of the most unique, complex and fun mechanics in Smash, even if they can be very difficult to master.
3. Shulk is not bottom tier, he's at the lower end of mid tier thanks to good results in tourneys like Civil War and Evo (can't remember which one). His frame data is his major kryptonite, but his sheer range and diversity of tricks would never put him among the likes of Ganondorf, Jiggs, Miis or Dr. Mario at bottom.

Have a little faith man, Shulk is great but flawed. Ultimate has more reliable Art switching and a faster Nair, plus universal landing lag improvements, so hope is not lost that he can be legitimately good rather than decent this time.

 

[MainJPW]

-I’m still glad Sakurai didn’t go for the modern Paon design for and instead brought back the Rare look with the darker skin and golden plate. (The only modern aspects he kept were his face.)

And his crown is Paon sized with not a full tail but rather a stub. It’s more like a combination between the two designs.

 

[MysticKnives]

We've seen nothing to deconfirm her yet and she's a lot more requested than Chrom and Dark Samus

Just curious on what of anything concrete do we have to say she’s more requested than them? Or even “a lot more requested”.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Here's a question.

Would you like more tier semi clones?

Or does that idea not appeal to you?

Yes.

Give me Dixie Kong, PLEASE!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I expect
Yes.

Give me Dixie Kong, PLEASE!

I want Dixie too, but I'm curious...

Would you accept almost anyone if they were that kind of semi clone?

 

[Zinith]

I'm getting Sonic OC vibes, don't you?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Here's a question.

Would you like more tier semi clones?

Or does that idea not appeal to you?

Give me Louie, President, and Alph from Pikmin as semi-clones of Olimar (Louie may just be a straight-up echo idk).

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I want Dixie too, but I'm curious...

Would you accept almost anyone if they were that kind of semi clone?

Only if it makes sense.

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

Here's a question.

Would you like more tier semi clones?

Or does that idea not appeal to you?

I certainly wouldn't mind more semi-clones on their level. & in particular were among my most used in Brawl, and while I didn't use as much in 4, I'm still really happy he made it back. I plan to give a really solid chance in Ultimate, and being able to use again makes me really happy; he was definitely one of the ones I was most excited to see return who was cut previously.

As for who I'd want, I want Dixie the most. I'd prefer her more as a semi-clone than as an echo, simply because I want to see her use her hair for at least some of her attacks, her recovery, and her grab. My other possible semi-clone want would be the Octoling, and simply because it would be neat to see other Splatoon weaponry (maybe even from Splatoon 2 as well) show up in their moveset.

Otherwise, I can't say who else I'd want, but if Sakurai wanted to make some more, then I'd be cool with it.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

I just wanted to say,

I'm actually really hyped for Ken. I know to a lot of people he seems to be a pretty plain character, but i'm a huge fan of Street Fighter, and I main Ryu in smash 4.

Now I get fire shoryus so wtf can I complain about??

I'll actually be pretty disappointed if he's not in at this point lol.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm getting Sonic OC vibes, don't you?

Who’s the Edgehog now, *****?!

Sorry, I had to...

 

[Ultinarok]

I just wanted to say,

I'm actually really hyped for Ken. I know to a lot of people he seems to be a pretty plain character, but i'm a huge fan of Street Fighter, and I main Ryu in smash 4.

Now I get fire shoryus so wtf can I complain about??

I'll actually be pretty disappointed if he's not in at this point lol.

Respect, I never cared for Ken in Street Fighter, as I always preferred Ryu, and in Smash, I don't care too much for either of them. So Ken is pretty "meh" to me and would make me a bit bummed that he got in but other neat Echoes potentially didn't. But he deserves it I suppose, as he pioneered the Echo Fighter concept and should be the king of the idea in Smash. I'm just glad he's got real fans, not "Vergeben said so, so now let's support Ken I guess because he's a lock." Seriously, it's almost like people supporting Black Shadow getting in simply because he could take over Canondorf's baggage.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Death is a skeletal figure.

Ness is using Death's Scythe in the second screenshot on the blog.

Sans is Ness?!

 

[FirestormNeos]

Alright I'm really sick of all this drama. There's too much hate being thrown around here. Hate towards Verg (I don't like him either but come on), hate towards Incineroar, Decidueye, Steve, Minecraft, Waluigi and now hate towards Uncharted appearently.

Only two people were complaining about Uncharted, and one of them backed off (or rather, is trying to back off from it but people keep bringing it back up). Everyone else was just trying to clarify things, and they succeeded. It wasn't until AFTER THE DISCUSSION WAS OVER when people butted in and started making snide comments.

There's going to be things you won't like or want in Ultimate, but it's still going to be a fantastic game regardless. Why don't we focus on positives for once?

Because talking about positives is really easy, so we run out of positive things to say quicker.

Go find a small detail about a character you like. It can a gameplay change, a new visual tweak, or even a sound effect you like. If for some reason there's nothing new that you love about that character, then mention something you loved about them in Smash 4.

I look forward to seeing what 's "Hiiiii" taunt sounds like in Ultimate.
I like that we can see the durability of :ultrobin's weapons.
I like how they made the s less chibi.
I like how floats around instead of just walking.
I like that they reworked 's Monado.
I like that they're using 's ATBW design.

Spoiler: Okay, break time's up. Let's rip this bandaid off and get it over with.

In what alternate universe is a thoughtful narrative about parenthood in a mythical Nordic setting in any way more emblematic of "dudebro" gaming than a game where you play as a bald man who murders the entire Greek Pantheon with ludicrous weapons and beds ships full of women? You're absolutely clueless as the content of the GoW Reboot aren't you?

It's not "dudebros" though. I'm sick and tired of video games as a whole getting slower, longer, uglier, and more mind-numbingly filled to the brim with worthless garbage. I'm sick and tired of rugged, miserable nobodies being the default. I'm sick and tired of "thoughtful narrative" amounting to little more then "Star Wars but not as entertaining, takes itself slightly more seriously and looks significantly worse in terms of artstyle."

See, I don't go out of my way to torture myself by buying and playing games I know I'm not going to like just to prove a point to randos on the internet. I may not have played the game myself, but I did enough reading about the game and listening to people gush about the game to know that I want absolutely less then nothing to do with it or anything even remotely like it.

Yeah, so is the grass in pretty much every game you're namedropping. Your point?

Spoiler: Ah yes, because there's so much green in this picture

Yeah, I do, because that never stopped. Uncharted is full of deserts, mountains, lush jungles, a colonial pirate town, rocking boats in a storm, a prison on a tropical island, African coastal towns, and the list goes on. But you wouldn't know that because you don't play any of the games you're complaining about.

Yes, it did stop.
Uncharted and Horizon: Zero Dawn are the exception, not the rule, with "realistic-looking AAA" games.

Also, you saw me compliment Uncharted earlier by comparing it to HZD's environments and you spit in my ****ing face over it.

If that looks bland and unrealistic to you then you've never set foot outside the countryside in an early Winter morning.

Unrealistic, not necessarily. Bland, absolutely.

Did it ever occur to you that neons are a thematic staple of cyberpunk aesthetic, and that Human Revolution is a cyberpunk game? That's like saying Mario is colorful. No duh. It has little to do with just dark theming and more to do with the overall composition of noir-esque fiction in a high-tech low-life world. Not that I'd expect you to know that because you're clearly just spouting things without evidence at this point.

Your point was to strawman my complaint with "games can't tell thematically dark stories." And now you're dragging my rebuttal to that into a completely unrelated argument.

You're passing off your hideously uninformed opinion as gospel and talking down to people for the crime of not thinking exactly as you do.

If you didn't want to be "talked down to," you wouldn't have butted into arguments that had nothing to do with you.

What were you even trying to accomplish in speaking to me, anyway? What exactly did I say that compelled you to continue a discussion THAT WAS ALREADY COMPLETELY OVER AND DONE WITH which you knew was only going to end badly if it was allowed to be dug back up and continue?

I asked this awhile back in the geno boards but I figure it could also be good to ask in general (and just to get the conversation away from blog, box , and music theories for awhile)

Suppose your most wanted character gets in as playable, but they have a playstyle that you just absolutely can’t stand, even if you can use them effectively at it, it’s a style you just don’t enjoy at all, would you still dedicate yourself to playing the character? Either competitively or casually? Or would you just be relieved and overjoyed that your favorite character got in and not really use them much?

This is what I'm worried might wind up being.

This is also why I'm hoping that if Linkle gets in, she gets in as an Echo Fighter or Alternate Costume of Link. Rework-aside, it seems as though Link is still going to play at least somewhat similarly to how he played in Smash 4.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

People complain about Chrom and he does look a little ... off but Young Link doesn’t have any room to complain with that Barbie and Ken-inspired hair.

 

[praline]

People complain about Chrom and he does look a little ... off but Young Link doesn’t have any room to complain with that Barbie and Ken-inspired hair.

I’m sure they fixed that by now

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It kind of is their fault, DK can only have Diddy, Dixie, or Cranky by his side at any given time when our on an adventure according to Tropical Freeze, the others just have to wait and hope DK picks them from one of the barrels.

Well during the wait Dixie had to get her hair done due to Donkey and Diddy taking too long to finish the previous adventure, while K Rool just so happened to had interfered due to DeDeDe

 

[ZephyrZ]

Only two people were complaining about Uncharted, and one of them backed off (or rather, is trying to back off from it but people keep bringing it back up). Everyone else was just trying to clarify things, and they succeeded. It wasn't until AFTER THE DISCUSSION WAS OVER when people butted in and started making snide comments.

I've never even played Uncharted and wasn't even following that conversation, I was just sick of all the arguing that's been going on lately in general.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Chroms render bothers me the most

Its like Corrins render from Smash 4

looks very incomplete compared to the rest

 

[DarthEnderX]

Item Kagutsuchi
View attachment 166838

Is that the sword from Demon Sword?!

 

[FirestormNeos]

I've never even played Uncharted and wasn't even following that conversation, I was just sick of all the arguing that's been going on lately in general.

I don't blame you. This thread goes by really quickly. I hope I never have to see the "Messages have been posted since you loaded this page." notification pop up while I'm typing as often as it does here ever again after the game comes out.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Is that the sword from Demon Sword?!

It's based on the seven branched sword, schichi****ou.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-Branched_Sword

EDIT: Lol stupid censors. Got a Scunthorpe problem here.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

It's based on the seven branched sword, schichi****ou.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-Branched_Sword

EDIT: Lol stupid censors. Got a Scunthorpe problem here.

Love how Japanese Romanji can get censored out. It makes trying post about the language here incredibly hard as shi teru or ****eru is a common verb phrase as “doing/playing/etc”.

Yakyu wo ****eimasu (I’m playing baseball)

Or for Shi tteru or ****teru which is “to know or understand”

Sumabura wo ****teimasu (I know Smash Bros.)

Or shi ta or ****a which means “below or under” as well as “tongue.”

 

[Idon]

Shulk is bad, but he’s not bottom tier.

Yeah, sure. You get the point. Cool Character. Bad Fighter. Yada yada.

1. The canonically-sized Monado would be comically overpowered, so that wasn't happening.
2. Monado Arts are one of the most unique, complex and fun mechanics in Smash, even if they can be very difficult to master.
3. Shulk is not bottom tier, he's at the lower end of mid tier thanks to good results in tourneys like Civil War and Evo (can't remember which one). His frame data is his major kryptonite, but his sheer range and diversity of tricks would never put him among the likes of Ganondorf, Jiggs, Miis or Dr. Mario at bottom.

Have a little faith man, Shulk is great but flawed. Ultimate has more reliable Art switching and a faster Nair, plus universal landing lag improvements, so hope is not lost that he can be legitimately good rather than decent this time.

1. It doesn't NEED to be canonically sized. An Ike or Cloud sized length would do fine. First of all, it actually needs to be held out like in the actual game, and second, it needs to be used as a sword and not as a weapon that relies on turning it on and off to poke people. You make it seem as if Smash is strangers to giant long swords when Cloud's Buster Sword is 2 yards long. It's not exactly like a "big sword" would be out of place like seen here:
2. Yeah they're unique and yeah they're definitely complex. That doesn't mean they're actually enjoyable to use or show off what the Monado can actually do other than buff people. "Difficult to master" is understating the fact that the buff/debuff system on top of the terrible frame data are a pain to use and it's no wonder why he never sees the light of day in either competitive or casual play. It's just not fun, and I'd rather have the flashy moves from the original games, simplicity or no.
3. Yeah, fact is, he's an awful character with awful hitboxes and awful speed with an awful gimmick that hurts him as much as it "helps" him. That much is inarguable. If you're going to say Shulk's placing even remotely well in tourneys, EVO 2018 had him at sixtyfifth place with only one person maining him. and Civil War had him at 33rd. I don't know of other tourneys, but I'm going to assume he's not doing too hot. He's a bad character relying on 5 different crutches that all can be kicked out underneath him at any time.

And while I don't doubt that radial menu's going to help, I think Shulk's toolkit is just fundamentally flawed. And even if he turned out to be some magic SSS tier Bayonetta level broken somehow, I still wouldn't like the fact he doesn't use his real Monado arts and he doesn't wield the Monado like he does in game.