Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Meta-Ridley confirms characters having more than 8 alts since Ridley already had 8 alts in the demo.

I have a theory on that! (please don't hit me or @ me ) Some say the ''new'' Meta-Ridley alt could replace the one that was in the demo:

Keeping the total to 8 alts. It's not confirmed but it makes sense... i think.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ultimate is the final time Smash is going to pull all the stops. Anyone that doesn’t get in at this point is most likely never getting in a Smash game, period.
I hope I’m wrong, but this is all too plausible.

You know there will be new Smash games...

And there will be more newcomers for said Smash games.

 

[Chumpodile]

I have a theory on that! (please don't hit me or @ me ) Some say the ''new'' Meta-Ridley alt could replace the one that was in the demo:

View attachment 165446View attachment 165447

Keeping the total to 8 alt. It's not confirmed but it makes sense... i think.

I could definitely see that happening! Does anyone know what this alt was a reference to if anything at all? I could for sure see it being just a placeholder

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

>comes back to Smashboards after grinding a ton of Spider-Man

Wow. Almost terrifying.

I think the music theory still has some room to be proven correct, but i’m keeping an eye on it at this point. One thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that everything is being done for one reason or another when it comes to this game. Reveals are done specific ways. Weekly updates are clearly done in particular ways.

Actually, it just occurred to me that the data from the website may actually back the music theory. Remember how there were 3 updates thrat were skipped? Guess how many we got that were related to Isabelle? 3. We got three in a row for her. Character trailer, character, music.

If this turns out to be the actual strategy for marketing, and I realize people have posted this, but this is what we’re looking at:

Series without Music updates:
Xenoblade Chronicles
Star Fox
Wii Fit
Gyromite
Game & Watch
Bayonetta
Sonic
Pac Man
Duck Hunt
Ice Climber
Kid Icarus
Pokemon
Earthbound
Wario Ware
Final Fantasy
(15 series)

Clearly, a solid chunk of these will NOT be getting a newcomer. The series in question here are most likely Wii Fit, Game & Watch, Gyromite, Duck Hunt, Ice Climber, Bayonetta, FInal Fantasy and Kid Icarus. This is a total of 8 series that are unlikely to get a character.

Considering music being a weekly update is a planned thing, and we have... 11 more Tuesdays before the game launches, we can make a few assumptions:

1) Final Fantasy will not get a newcomer, and I believe has been already found to still have 2 tracks. It won’t get an update with music.

2) If Wii Fit, Gyromite, Ice Climber and Game & Watch each received a remix, that’s 4 weeks down and 4 franchises out of the way, bringing us down to 7 weeks. It’s also possible that 3/4 if not all series listed here don’t get a single music update.

3) If Incineroar is in the game, that would hypothetically lead to a Pokémon track reveal following the character. This is another week down, which makes it 5 franchises down with 6 weeks to go.

4) at this point, we’re left with Wario, Xenoblade, Kid Icarus, Earthbound, Star Fox, Sonic, and Pac-Man. I believe at this point we can assume the only franchise here with a shot at a newcomer is Xenoblade. Despite that, we’d have six weeks left, and 7 franchises yet to get music.

Unless i’m off in some way, I think the theory is feasible, even if the box theory is correct as well. Matching these up with Vergeben makes it a real possibility.

As i’ve said, brace yourselves. It’s going to be a loooooong home stretch.

 

[Murlough]

I have a theory on that! (please don't hit me or @ me ) Some say the ''new'' Meta-Ridley alt could replace the one that was in the demo:

View attachment 165446View attachment 165447

Keeping the total to 8 alt. It's not confirm but it makes sense... i think.

It doesn't make any sense to make an alt just to delete it from the game later when you can just add this one in as the 9th. Hell, I could do it and I'm one of the few people who legit spent a day trying to figure out how to unzip a file. This is not an exaggeration. Yet, adding one extra skin at the end was an easy task by comparison.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

You know there will be new Smash games...

And there will be more newcomers for said Smash games.

Yeah but they won’t be nearly as good as Ultimate’s.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Ultimate is the final time Smash is going to pull all the stops. Anyone that doesn’t get in at this point is most likely never getting in a Smash game, period.
I hope I’m wrong, but this is all too plausible.

I mean... theres a high probability of DLC at least. If they don't make it into the base roster, we still at least have a few more years before they're done with Ultimate completely.

 

[Zinith]

I have a theory on that! (please don't hit me or @ me ) Some say the ''new'' Meta-Ridley alt could replace the one that was in the demo:

View attachment 165446View attachment 165447

Keeping the total to 8 alts. It's not confirmed but it makes sense... i think.

It just seems odd to me to make an alt for a demo if you're just gonna scrap it in the final game. We already knew about the Meta-Ridley alt BEFORE the demo was shown off, why not just use that in the demo?!!!

 

[SonicMario]

Zinith

Heh, Yoshi may be more related to Ridley then thought before (Also pardon if you've already seen this, probably a good chance you have)

http://www.suppermariobroth.com/post/156115358715/during-the-first-mission-of-sky-station-galaxy-in

 

[Chumpodile]

>comes back to Smashboards after grinding a ton of Spider-Man

Wow. Almost terrifying.

I think the music theory still has some room to be proven correct, but i’m keeping an eye on it at this point. One thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that everything is being done for one reason or another when it comes to this game. Reveals are done specific ways. Weekly updates are clearly done in particular ways.

Actually, it just occurred to me that the data from the website may actually back the music theory. Remember how there were 3 updates thrat were skipped? Guess how many we got that were related to Isabelle? 3. We got three in a row for her. Character trailer, character, music.

If this turns out to be the actual strategy for marketing, and I realize people have posted this, but this is what we’re looking at:

Series without Music updates:
Xenoblade Chronicles
Star Fox
Wii Fit
Gyromite
Game & Watch
Bayonetta
Sonic
Pac Man
Duck Hunt
Ice Climber
Kid Icarus
Pokemon
Earthbound
Wario Ware
Final Fantasy
(15 series)

Clearly, a solid chunk of these will NOT be getting a newcomer. The series in question here are most likely Wii Fit, Game & Watch, Gyromite, Duck Hunt, Ice Climber, and Kid Icarus.

Considering music being a weekly update is a planned thing, and we have... 11 more Tuesdays before the game launches, we can make a few assumptions:

1) Final Fantasy will not get a newcomer, and I believe has been already found to still have 2 tracks. It won’t get an update with music.

2) If Wii Fit, Gyromite, Ice Climber and Game & Watch each received a remix, that’s 4 weeks down and 4 franchises out of the way, bringing us down to 7 weeks.

3) If Incineroar is in the game, that would hypothetically lead to a Pokémon track reveal following the character. This is another week down, which makes it 5 franchises down with 6 weeks to go.

4) at this point, we’re left with Wario, Xenoblade, Kid Icarus, Earthbound, Star Fox, Sonic, and Pac-Man. I believe at this point we can assume the only franchise here with a shot at a newcomer is Xenoblade. Despite that, we’d have six weeks left, and 7 franchises yet to get music.

Unless i’m off in some way, I think the theory is feasible, even if the box theory is correct as well. Matching these up with Vergeben makes it a real possibility.

As i’ve said, brace yourselves. It’s going to be a loooooong home stretch.

I'll believe anything that points towards a new earthbound rep.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I mean... theres a high probability of DLC at least. If they don't make it into the base roster, we still at least have a few more years before they're done with Ultimate completely.

Okay, and what of the characters that aren’t DLC? Hm?

 

[Icedragonadam]

Pac-Man is already covered with the Galaga remix. He isn't just representing Pac-Man but Namco's Classic Arcade in general.

 

[PsySmasher]

I have a theory on that! (please don't hit me or @ me ) Some say the ''new'' Meta-Ridley alt could replace the one that was in the demo:

View attachment 165446View attachment 165447

Keeping the total to 8 alt. It's not confirmed but it makes sense... i think.

It's possible, since some older costumes have been removed in favor of newer costumes. I personally don't see why every character needs 8 alts exactly, but it's definitely plausible.

 

[GunBlaze]

Keeping the total to 8 alts. It's not confirmed but it makes sense... i think.

SInce Little Mac lost like, 8 colors, it does make sense.

 

[Zinith]

Zinith

Heh, Yoshi may be more related to Ridley then thought before (Also pardon if you've already seen this, probably a good chance you have)

http://www.suppermariobroth.com/post/156115358715/during-the-first-mission-of-sky-station-galaxy-in

I knew of that, I just didn't make the connection to Ridley. Thank you

 

[Jigglymaster]

Okay, and what of the characters that aren’t DLC? Hm?

Don't you think that worrying about whos not going to be in the game 2-3 years from now is a little silly?

And they say The Box theory supporters are pessimistic...

 

[Murlough]

I also have a theory that a ton of the alts were missing in the demo....because it was a demo. They just didn't put more than 8 alts in because it wasn't necessary and they didn't want to reveal some alternate costumes.

It makes more sense than deleting an alt for a replacement when both were already a thing.

EDIT: Holy Palutena her art is glorious. I think this might be my first time seeing it.

 

[perfectchaos83]

So can we talk about how if a character doesn’t get into Ultimate they’re very likely never going to get into a Smash game ever?

The only ones that I feel fall into this are Geno and Isaac for very obvious reasons.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Don't you think that worrying about whos not going to be in the game 2-3 years from now is a little silly?

And they say The Box theory supporters are pessimistic...

Dude, the box theory and its likeliness is what’s MAKING ME pessimistic. Plus I don’t see anyone disputing the idea of Ultimate being the end all be all for newcomers.
Also, and this might be a bit unrealistically cynical, but I somewhat expect almost all of the Ultimate newcomers that aren’t Inkling to get cut in the next game. Or at least Ridley and K. Rool.

 

[Noipoi]

Eh? Why?

I don't know their reason for thinking this, but I agree with the idea. Take for example, Ashley. I now know Ashley had three very big things working against her, which is why she obviously wasn't chosen as a fighter.

1. She isn't well known enough.
Sure she's got a niche fanbase, but that's it. It's niche. She isn't popular or important enough to stand with the greats.

2. She isn't requested enough.
K Rool hasn't been in a game for ten years, most modern gamers simply don't care about him. But he got in because of his rabid fan's requests that stood out from the others. Unfortunately Ashley doesn't have a fanbase as big as his, so our cries blend in with the others millions requesting characters.

3. She isn't important enough.
She's not a gaming icon. She's a side character from the spin off of a spin off. She'll never be significant enough for a game like this.


I thought that Ultimate being the game of fan requests Sakuari would grant the one wish of her teeny-tiny fan base. I was wrong. I've realized that Ashley will never, ever be in a Smash game as anything other than an Assist Trophy. I'm not angry, i'm not bitter, it sucks, but that's how it is.

Phew, feels good to get that off my chest.

 

[LetterO]

If many requested newcomers don't get it, DLC or base game, I don't think it'd feel as special in future games. After all this is the Ultimate smash. 'The most Smash for your buck' as Sakurai calls it. Getting Geno or Isaac now would be much greater as it'd be alongside every other Smash character.

 

[Murlough]

The only ones that I feel fall into this are Geno and Isaac for very obvious reasons.

I thought of that, too but I doubt it. When was the last time they were in ANYTHING? Yet, their fans still are very outspoken about their inclusion. If Smash Ultimate gets a ballot then I'd almost call them a lock come Smash 6, not that Smash 6 is worth talking about right now.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

It just seems odd to me to make an alt for a demo if you're just gonna scrap it in the final game. We already knew about the Meta-Ridley alt BEFORE the demo was shown off, why not just use that in the demo?!!!

I don't know tbh. Seems weird to make an alt. just for the demo but also seems weird to keep 2 Meta-Ridley alts (especially if one of the 2 is only a Meta-Ridley inspired color swap).

 

[Jigglymaster]

Dude, the box theory and its likeliness is what’s MAKING ME pessimistic. Plus I don’t see anyone disputing the idea of Ultimate being the end all be all for newcomers.
Also, and this might be a bit unrealistically cynical, but I somewhat expect almost all of the Ultimate newcomers that aren’t Inkling to get cut in the next game. Or at least Ridley and K. Rool.

If it makes you feel any better, Brawl's slogan was "A Brawl to end them all". Most people thought that was the end of Smash. Some people thought the same for Smash 4.

Sakurai's even recently came out and said that he'll make more Smash if there continues to be demand for it. This happens literally every time a new smash game comes out. DLC is incredibly likely, so even if the Box Theory is true, that doesn't mean that Ken and Incineroar are the only characters left in smash history.

Instead of worrying about the future so much, enjoy the present.

 

[LetterO]

I don't know their reason for thinking this, but I agree with the idea. Take for example, Ashley. I now know Ashley had three very big things working against her, which is why she obviously wasn't chosen as a fighter.

1. She isn't well known enough.
Sure she's got a niche fanbase, but that's it. It's niche. She isn't popular or important enough to stand with the greats.

2. She isn't requested enough.
K Rool hasn't been in a game for ten years, most modern gamers simply don't care about him. But he got in because of his rabid fan's requests that stood out from the others. Unfortunately Ashley doesn't have a fanbase as big as his, so our cries blend in with the others millions requesting characters.

3. She isn't important enough.
She's not a gaming icon. She's a side character from the spin off of a spin off. She'll never be significant enough for a game like this.


I thought that Ultimate being the game of fan requests Sakuari would grant the one wish of her teeny-tiny fan base. I was wrong. I've realized that Ashley will never, ever be in a Smash game as anything other than an Assist Trophy. I'm not angry, i'm not bitter, it sucks, but that's how it is.

Phew, feels good to get that off my chest.

I had never seen support for Ashley in the Smash 4 days, especially since she was DLC. I doubt Sakurai noticed it either. However, he now probably knows about it. Whether this means she gets promoted in DLC , put in Smash 6, or nothing at all happens, I don't know.

im just gonna keep hoping for 9-Volt instead, though

 

[perfectchaos83]

I thought of that, too but I doubt it. When was the last time they were in ANYTHING? Yet, their fans still are very outspoken about their inclusion. If Smash Ultimate gets a ballot then I'd almost call them a lock come Smash 6, not that Smash 6 is worth talking about right now.

Fan support means nothing when SE and Camelot don't seem to have any intention of using those characters in the future. Bear in mind, Sakurai does need their approval to include them, even for first party characters.

 

[PsySmasher]

Dude, the box theory and its likeliness is what’s MAKING ME pessimistic. Plus I don’t see anyone disputing the idea of Ultimate being the end all be all for newcomers.
Also, and this might be a bit unrealistically cynical, but I somewhat expect almost all of the Ultimate newcomers that aren’t Inkling to get cut in the next game. Or at least Ridley and K. Rool.

Yeah. Considering this game is essentially the "ultimate" () Smash experience, it will be very hard for Nintendo/Sakurai to surpass what they've already built, unless they market it as a reboot.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

First box theory and now music theory. I wonder what's next...

 

[perfectchaos83]

I don't know their reason for thinking this, but I agree with the idea. Take for example, Ashley. I now know Ashley had three very big things working against her, which is why she obviously wasn't chosen as a fighter.

1. She isn't well known enough.
Sure she's got a niche fanbase, but that's it. It's niche. She isn't popular or important enough to stand with the greats.

2. She isn't requested enough.
K Rool hasn't been in a game for ten years, most modern gamers simply don't care about him. But he got in because of his rabid fan's requests that stood out from the others. Unfortunately Ashley doesn't have a fanbase as big as his, so our cries blend in with the others millions requesting characters.

3. She isn't important enough.
She's not a gaming icon. She's a side character from the spin off of a spin off. She'll never be significant enough for a game like this.


I thought that Ultimate being the game of fan requests Sakuari would grant the one wish of her teeny-tiny fan base. I was wrong. I've realized that Ashley will never, ever be in a Smash game as anything other than an Assist Trophy. I'm not angry, i'm not bitter, it sucks, but that's how it is.

Phew, feels good to get that off my chest.

I'd say this is overly pessimistic. Ashley is and continues to be a growing character and one that has proven to be profitable for Nintendo. She'll get her chance, it's just not in Base Ultimate.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

So I should say something.
The reason I say a lot of cynical, pessimistic, and kinda outright rude **** isn’t just because I’m jaded with stuff like the box theory and ****.
It’s also because I WANT people to tell me I’m wrong, because it’s the only way I can get it into my head that I AM wrong. I don’t want to be right about any of the negative stuff I theorize. Nobody does.

 

[Murlough]

Fan support means nothing when SE and Camelot don't seem to have any intention of using those characters in the future. Bear in mind, Sakurai does need their approval to include them, even for first party characters.

You say that be K. Rool got revealed not so long ago.

Wasn't there a whole thing about fans bringing him back from the dead?

 

[Zinith]

I don't know tbh. Seems weird to make an alt. just for the demo but seems weird to keep 2 Meta-Ridley alts too (especially one that's only a Meta-Ridley inspired color swap).

There could've been a simple solution on Sakurai's part:

Just use the Meta-Ridley alt in the demo.

That's an asset wasted for something that wasn't a secret.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

June's Direct was the 12th due to E3.

August's was the 8th.


I dunno, but to me, having the Directs 2 months apart seems perfect.

That was you can go:


June > August > October > Launch

Instead of:

June > August >>>>> November>Launch


Gives a 2~ month period for discussion and hype between each.

Agree with this. There seems to be a pattern. Yes we had a reveal this month but that was an Nintendo Direct. So it only sounds logical.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I mean, the Uprising enemies were easy port jobs so I could understand it from that angle.

Technically, it's because Sora Ltd. had direct access to the models from Uprising, so they were easily implementable enemies.

Edit: 'd

I guess, but easy port job or not that's still a lot of Uprising badies compared to other franchises. And its not like Kirby enemies were lacking either, going even with The Legend of Zelda at 7 and beating Pokemon at 4.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I think I have an idea to help end lengthy debates

1 anti-theory to every theory. It’s only fair, since they are only theories.

Box Theory

• Implies one remaining echo due to patterns on the Smash Controller Bundle
• Limits character count to 72
• Disproven by 73 characters; 2 revealed echoes

Anti-Box Theory

• Refutes the 72 character limit. Suggest boxart can be modified later
• Implies spacing on the box is catered more towards even dispersement of appearing characters or the space is filled by another item.
• Disproven if Box Theory is proven

This is bare-bones basic, but I think including an anti theory to every theory, or providing the information that would disprove a theory, would improve overall perception and reception of theories.

Making them clear in the positive(if true scenario)is normal, but if we also provide the negative(if false scenario) we make the purpose of a theory clear. We also show an understanding of objectivity and our best attempt to resist a bias and view them as nothing more than a theory until the “proven” requirements are met or the “disproven” requirements are met.

This also makes it clear how the rest of the community can help to disprove theories or help modify a theory to fit, point out mistakes, flaws or seek more information to assimilate into the theory and flesh it out.

Does anyone agree this would reduce misinterpretation and animosity?

 

[Chumpodile]

Zinith

Heh, Yoshi may be more related to Ridley then thought before (Also pardon if you've already seen this, probably a good chance you have)

http://www.suppermariobroth.com/post/156115358715/during-the-first-mission-of-sky-station-galaxy-in

Love it

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

There could've been a simple solution on Sakurai's part:

Just use the Meta-Ridley alt in the demo.

That's an asset wasted for something that wasn't a secret.

I agree it seems off... but maybe... you know [insert a good argument here].

 

[MainJPW]

I could definitely see that happening! Does anyone know what this alt was a reference to if anything at all?

Sprite from Zero Mission?

It just seems odd to me to make an alt for a demo if you're just gonna scrap it in the final game.

Arcsys did just that. IIRC they removed Freeza's black alt in Fighterz despite it being in the beta. Of course it's not Smash, but...

 

[Hinata]

I saw mention of the Crafted World Yoshi, and I'd just like to say...

Good ****ing lord, look at that texture. Feels like I could reach out and pet it right here and now.

 

[PsySmasher]

June's Direct was the 12th due to E3.

August's was the 8th.


I dunno, but to me, having the Directs 2 months apart seems perfect.

That was you can go:


June > August > October > Launch

Instead of:

June > August >>>>> November>Launch


Gives a 2~ month period for discussion and hype between each.

It's also plausible that the full roster will be revealed before November 2nd, since the bundle for Smash Ultimate releases then.

On a side note: this could also mean that the possibility of a demo in November increases if all of the base roster is known beforehand.