Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

Yeah it sucks, but think of it this way. When Incineroar was leaked before his official reveal everyone hated him, but when they saw him in action they warmed up to him, it'll probably be the same here! His strong personality and hilarious movements are sure to win at least a couple haters over!

Probably for a lot of the same reasons, to.
"Ew, another fire/fighting type? And why is he anthro?"
"Oh I guess he's a dark type and also has a lot of personality".


"Ew, another heavyweight, grappling fire-type? We already have Charizard and Bowser!"
"Oh I guess he is kind of unique afterall and also has a lot of personality".

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Which is why I say, reboot it, make it something different as some circles would like to see, but keep Ultimate around for that every-growing Smash classic experience. It has everything. Every character, most stages returning, every mode and every option people have been begging for for nearly a decade. While I should temper my expectations, this seems like on paper to be the best Smash game possible. Plus, if Nintendo could successfully run TWO Smash franchises side-by-side for different audiences--money, money, mooooney.

Could you let Sakurai rest FOR 5 MINUTES?

 

[Exalt4747]

Everyone who knows me should be aware. *glares at chairs*

I am also not fond of the chair one.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'm still gonna say Maz Koshia is the most unique character we could get playable out of Breath of the Wild.

PROS:
- Sheikah training and moves
- Can replicate moves of the Yiga Clan (Teleportation/Duplication)
- For the sake of completion, can probably use the runes that haven't been shown in Smash (Cryonis, Stasis, etc.)
- Could easily pull from the Champion's moveset since Link clearly doesn't want to use them (Protection, Fury, Gale)
- The Master Cycle is kickass

CONS:
- DLC character

I’ve been saying this for a while, but the ideal Impa representation for me is just her BotW incarnation but with the moveset of Moz Koshia.

It’d represent the the older and more common incarnation of Impa, the Sheikah clan beyond just “ninja stuff” that Sheik does, and would also represent one of the coolest Zelda bosses ever.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm not going to lie I'm literally stupid are you agreeing with me or disagreeing or what is happening here my friend
Thinkaman (your quote won't show up I'm sorry)

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm not sure that every item, even every new item, has to get a blog post. I'm also not so sure that the blog posts have to actually be finished on release; Brawl and 4 sites kept updating for a good month post-release.

I'm also glad that we pretty much know now that our last two characters are Ken and Incineroar. It lets us just plain quit character speculation which is by far the most annoying thing about a smash pre-release; we have our roster so let's worry more about the game itself, you know? I know a lot of people don't want to accept it the same way a lot of people didn't want to accept that the 103 stages were indeed all of the stages despite the fact that, you know, we were explicitly told exactly that. I think people get caught up in wishful thinking and entangle their analysis of what they want to happen with a more objective analysis of what the evidence suggests will actually happen. Absolutely everything we've seen and heard since the day this reveal cycle started points to this which is a big reason that the box stuff works so well. It actually completely jives with everything else. It lets Vergeben's leaks fully play out without any extra surprises. It fits the fact that 103 is really the final stage count by not giving us any new characters from any new stages. It fits that every inclusion is a very clear, mainstream inclusion which makes sense for a smaller number of newcomers (which is something we were told to expect up front by Sakurai even though a lot of people chose to ignore that). It even fits the fact that we haven't gotten Pokemon music on the blog yet (the SF music we have isn't a big deal since echo fighters aren't real newcomers and thus don't command that level of attention). I also will say that, seriously, this being the end isn't a bad outcome or pessimism at all. We have an incredible roster here and had an incredible roster from the moment EVERYBODY IS HERE happened. Everything that happened afterwards was just icing on the cake.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Watch Shadow not be in the game playable after everyone hyped him up and said he was gonna be playable

 

[WertQuadNine]

Mmmm just had a vision of the Incineroar trailer starting with him snapping a skull kid colored chair in half in the wrestling ring. I like that.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm not sure that every item, even every new item, has to get a blog post. I'm also not so sure that the blog posts have to actually be finished on release; Brawl and 4 sites kept updating for a good month post-release.

I'm also glad that we pretty much know now that our last two characters are Ken and Incineroar. It lets us just plain quit character speculation which is by far the most annoying thing about a smash pre-release; we have our roster so let's worry more about the game itself, you know? I know a lot of people don't want to accept it the same way a lot of people didn't want to accept that the 103 stages were indeed all of the stages despite the fact that, you know, we were explicitly told exactly that. I think people get caught up in wishful thinking and entangle their analysis of what they want to happen with a more objective analysis of what the evidence suggests will actually happen. Absolutely everything we've seen and heard since the day this reveal cycle started points to this which is a big reason that the box stuff works so well. It actually completely jives with everything else. It lets Vergeben's leaks fully play out without any extra surprises. It fits the fact that 103 is really the final stage count by not giving us any new characters from any new stages. It fits that every inclusion is a very clear, mainstream inclusion which makes sense for a smaller number of newcomers (which is something we were told to expect up front by Sakurai even though a lot of people chose to ignore that). It even fits the fact that we haven't gotten Pokemon music on the blog yet (the SF music we have isn't a big deal since echo fighters aren't real newcomers and thus don't command that level of attention). I also will say that, seriously, this being the end isn't a bad outcome or pessimism at all. We have an incredible roster here and had an incredible roster from the moment EVERYBODY IS HERE happened. Everything that happened afterwards was just icing on the cake.

"I'm also glad that we pretty much know now that our last two characters are Ken and Incineroar."
I know I say this often but...that is a big leap.

I don't know why we've swept the SE rep into the "oh they're DLC" pile, but...the SE rep is kinda crucial, guys.

 

[hposter]

Watch Shadow not be in the game playable after everyone hyped him up and said he was gonna be playable

Literally, unironically my worst nightmare when it comes to this game.

 

[Exalt4747]

Watch Shadow not be in the game playable after everyone hyped him up and said he was gonna be playable

"Wait, Richter is in the game? Wow, I bet that Shadow the Hedgehog-"

"DIE MONSTER, YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD."

 

[Luigi The President]

Could you let Sakurai rest FOR 5 MINUTES?

Not to mention the hundreds of employees working on this game that we often forget about.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Some people are trying too hard to kill the box, and there really isn’t any way to kill it until something new is revealed.

For example, one thing people say is, “There’s no way it’s a final design”. Obviously, there are spots missing. If it were TRULY a placeholder overall, why wouldn’t it just be a black box that says, “Super Smash Bros Ultimate”? No one has really tried to tackle that with a convincing answer. If you check Amazon or Best Buy and look for Metroid Prime 4, for example, you get a generic picture that literally just has the title. Why wouldn’t the box just look like that? Why design a weird pattern for a box at all?

Another point “against” it is that “Nintendo wouldn’t leak something like that”. Really now? The following has been leaked through official content:
- Diddy, Birdo, Paratroopa in Mario Tennis Aces
- characters in Fire Emblem Warriors
- part of the Mario Party roster in Japan
- evidently, something from Mario Kart in Poland (i’ve been told about this, but haven’t seen it)
- Smash Wii U/ 3DS with Ganondorf
- Brawl with Jiggs and Lucario

It has happened before, and could very well be happening now based on what we know.

Other things i’ve seen seem more like straw grasping. The idea that the barcode would be on the side (no, thousands upon thousands of games have barcodes on the back, which is at least the standard in the United States). There are others but I can’t think of them.

I mean hey, if it is wrong we get more characters. But straw grasping isn’t going to make this suddenly different if it DOES turn out to be real in the end. We won’t know if this is the case until the roster is revealed. While that sucks because it may take over speculation, there are plenty of other things to do, like play through a backlog of games that aren’t Smash, or enjoy a favorite hobby, I don’t know.

Just don’t let it get to you. We just need to be patient, both as a community and as individuals.

 

[Polan]

Has this reddit post been discussed yet?
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9gqnwp/blog_theory_predicting_a_character_count/
It's saying the blog hints at around 7-8 more characters if this pattern keeps up. I don't personally believe it has much merit to it, but thought I'd point it out for discussion.

hey it kinda lines up with my prediction roster though i went with 6 instead of 7-8 though. noice,

 

[PlasmaDam]

This roster is pretty good one though i kindq of wanted a bit more newcomers but oh well

 

[AugustusB]

"I'm also glad that we pretty much know now that our last two characters are Ken and Incineroar."
I know I say this often but...that is a big leap.

I don't know why we've swept the SE rep into the "oh they're DLC" pile, but...the SE rep is kinda crucial, guys.

Until it is uttered as DLC, SE lives on!

 

[Luigi The President]

Some people are trying too hard to kill the box, and there really isn’t any way to kill it until something new is revealed.

For example, one thing people say is, “There’s no way it’s a final design”. Obviously, there are spots missing. If it were TRULY a placeholder overall, why wouldn’t it just be a black box that says, “Super Smash Bros Ultimate”? No one has really tried to tackle that with a convincing answer. If you check Amazon or Best Buy and look for Metroid Prime 4, for example, you get a generic picture that literally just has the title. Why wouldn’t the box just look like that? Why design a weird pattern for a box at all?

Another point “against” it is that “Nintendo wouldn’t leak something like that”. Really now? The following has been leaked through official content:
- Diddy, Birdo, Paratroopa in Mario Tennis Aces
- characters in Fire Emblem Warriors
- part of the Mario Party roster in Japan
- evidently, something from Mario Kart in Poland (i’ve been told about this, but haven’t seen it)
- Smash Wii U/ 3DS with Ganondorf
- Brawl with Jiggs and Lucario

It has happened before, and could very well be happening now based on what we know.

Other things i’ve seen seem more like straw grasping. The idea that the barcode would be on the side (no, thousands upon thousands of games have barcodes on the back, which is at least the standard in the United States). There are others but I can’t think of them.

I mean hey, if is wrong we get more characters. But straw grasping isn’t going to make this suddenly different if it DOES turn out to be real in the end. We won’t know if this is the case until the roster is revealed. While that sucks because it may take over speculation, there are plenty of other things to do, like play through a backlog of games that aren’t Smash, or enjoy a favorite hobby, I don’t know.

Just don’t let it get to you.

I feel like I see a post along these lines every day now...

I wish we could just lay this to rest and say "both sides have valid points" and just wait for Vergeben's word on if it's true or false or not.

It's very soul-sucking.

Thanks for trying to keep us down-to-earth, though.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm not sure that every item, even every new item, has to get a blog post. I'm also not so sure that the blog posts have to actually be finished on release; Brawl and 4 sites kept updating for a good month post-release.

I'm also glad that we pretty much know now that our last two characters are Ken and Incineroar. It lets us just plain quit character speculation which is by far the most annoying thing about a smash pre-release; we have our roster so let's worry more about the game itself, you know? I know a lot of people don't want to accept it the same way a lot of people didn't want to accept that the 103 stages were indeed all of the stages despite the fact that, you know, we were explicitly told exactly that. I think people get caught up in wishful thinking and entangle their analysis of what they want to happen with a more objective analysis of what the evidence suggests will actually happen. Absolutely everything we've seen and heard since the day this reveal cycle started points to this which is a big reason that the box stuff works so well. It actually completely jives with everything else. It lets Vergeben's leaks fully play out without any extra surprises. It fits the fact that 103 is really the final stage count by not giving us any new characters from any new stages. It fits that every inclusion is a very clear, mainstream inclusion which makes sense for a smaller number of newcomers (which is something we were told to expect up front by Sakurai even though a lot of people chose to ignore that). It even fits the fact that we haven't gotten Pokemon music on the blog yet (the SF music we have isn't a big deal since echo fighters aren't real newcomers and thus don't command that level of attention). I also will say that, seriously, this being the end isn't a bad outcome or pessimism at all. We have an incredible roster here and had an incredible roster from the moment EVERYBODY IS HERE happened. Everything that happened afterwards was just icing on the cake.

But character speculation is the best part!
Unless you hate fun, of course.

Also, Corocoro says there are 108 stages. It could be a typo but I don't think it is.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm not sure that every item, even every new item, has to get a blog post. I'm also not so sure that the blog posts have to actually be finished on release; Brawl and 4 sites kept updating for a good month post-release.

Well, it's just that the overall amount of content matches up to the December 7th schedule pretty well.

We've only gotten new Pokemon, and are at a pace to cover all of them by release.
We've only gotten new items and assist trophies, but are slightly behind.
We've gotten all characters, and are slightly ahead.
We've gotten a handful of stages, at a pace that would suggest ~7-10 more.

The blog prioritized new stages and characters consistently, and the overall coverage of characters (vs say assist trophies and items) seems plausibly front-loaded accordingly.

Note that the website pages for items, assist trophies, and Pokemon list the new entries exhaustively and exclusively in the top section of each.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

From the heavy sonic discussion earlier. I made a small strawpoll

https://www.strawpoll.me/16479739 if you care to give it some input.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am positive the base roster will have only Ken and Incineroar. Only 72 character slots (Pokémon Trainer and Mii Fighters each count as one character slot).

 

[Luigi The President]

Well, it's just that the overall amount of content matches up to the December 7th schedule pretty well.

We've only gotten new Pokemon, and are at a pace to cover all of them by release.
We've only gotten new items and assist trophies, but are slightly behind.
We've gotten all characters, and are slightly ahead.
We've gotten a handful of stages, at a pace that would suggest ~7-10 more.

The blog prioritized new stages and characters consistently, and the overall coverage of characters (vs say assist trophies and items) seems plausibly front-loaded accordingly.

Note that the website pages for items, assist trophies, and Pokemon list the new entries exhaustively and exclusively in the top section of each.

Okay, I think I get your post now;

You're saying the box may just be a deliberate red herring, right?
That's...really smart, actually. Hadn't considered that.

 

[Idon]

From the heavy sonic discussion earlier. I made a small strawpoll

https://www.strawpoll.me/16479739 if you care to give it some input.

Honestly, I want Knuckles so I can complete the classic rivalry.
But y'know... that ship's kinda sailed.

That said, for Sega, there's an IP in particular I'd like...

 

[CosmicQuark]

Literally, unironically my worst nightmare when it comes to this game.

You and me both. It makes too much sense, as he's a perfect candidate for an echo and his assist's currently MIA. He's not a lock, but if he's not in it is a big missed opportunity.

Well, actually that's my second worst nightmare. Worst nightmare is Steve's in and Banjo's not. But, when coming back from lurking I promised myself never to mention... him again. Him and boxes are the two things I promise never to mention after this point.

Spoiler

...probably gonna break my rule at some point, and I apologize in advance.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Why does everyone assume Ken is bassicly guaranteed in Smash ulitmate

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I feel like I see a post along these lines every day now...

I wish we could just lay this to rest and say "both sides have valid points" and just wait for Vergeben's word on if it's true or false or not.

It's very soul-sucking.

Thanks for trying to keep us down-to-earth, though.

Honestly, I just post stuff like this to continue a pattern of critical thinking and get people to think. I guess the fact that i’m an English teacher plays into that!

Plus I really do just get the feeling people are honestly panicking that this is it, and are therefore trying to find literally anything to debunk it. The more people panic, and the more people try to convince themselves and others that more are coming, the more this seems like a, “10 pictures taken right before disaster” YouTube video waiting to happen.

I also understand why people are acting this way. I lucked out and have gotten pretty much everything I could have asked for. I got Snake back, all vets returning aside from him, we got Ridley, K.Rool, and some awesome stuff from a 3rd party series i’ve never played but have always wanted to...I can’t complain from my end. Despite that, there are plenty of people who don’t have that same satisfaction, and are probably fearful that their favorite pick isn’t getting in.

It’s a daunting feeling. I should know. Finding out that Snake was gone for Wii U was heartbreaking, for at least a little while.

You can’t blame people for trying, but everyone just needs to keep an open mind. It makes things easier, not only for Smash speculation but for life in general, in my opinion.

 

[RandomAce]

Is it Lycanroc over there, or someone else? They aren't my number one but I like them. (I also had one on my sun team.)

Yup! I’m still holding out hope for them. They’re what got me into Pokémon in the first place after all.

 

[Exalt4747]

You and me both. It makes too much sense, as he's a perfect candidate for an echo and his assist's currently MIA. He's not a lock, but if he's not in it is a big missed opportunity.

Well, actually that's my second worst nightmare. Worst nightmare is Steve's in and Banjo's not. But, when coming back from lurking I promised myself never to mention... him again. Him and boxes are the two things I promise never to mention after this point.

Spoiler

...probably gonna break my rule at some point, and I apologize in advance.

I honestly have trouble imagining them being that tone-deaf.

 

[majora_787]

Honestly I've been following the 3-characters-per-week track record for weeks and just assumed it wasn't something people cared about since it hasn't seemed to be talked about much. But with the stuff getting thrown around lately, it's a pretty nice thing to just kind of sit on and help people relax a bit about how things will be going for the next couple months.

 

[Nethermoosen]

How does the Box Theory have holes?

Lack of actual proof.
If it didn’t have holes, it wouldn’t be a theory. It would be fact.

 

[Zinith]

Why does everyone assume Ken is bassicly guaranteed in Smash ulitmate

Verg, the way the box is organized, and just because it makes the most sense to a bunch of people

 

[DarkFalcon]

From the heavy sonic discussion earlier. I made a small strawpoll

https://www.strawpoll.me/16479739 if you care to give it some input.

I've secretly wanted Shadow since Brawl but now that I'm 23 IDC what people say. Shadow is my boy. Many of my best childhood memories were with Shadow. I genuinely want him.

 

[Luigi The President]

Honestly, I just post stuff like this to continue a pattern of critical thinking and get people to think. I guess the fact that i’m an English teacher plays into that!

Plus I really do just get the feeling people are honestly panicking that this is it, and are therefore trying to find literally anything to debunk it. The more people panic, and the more people try to convince themselves and others that more are coming, the more this seems like a, “10 pictures taken right before disaster” YouTube video waiting to happen.

I also understand why people are acting this way. I lucked out and have gotten pretty much everything I could have asked for. I got Snake back, all vets returning aside from him, we got Ridley, K.Rool, and some awesome stuff from a 3rd party series i’ve never played but have always wanted to...I can’t complain from my end. Despite that, there are plenty of people who don’t have that same satisfaction, and are probably fearful that their favorite pick isn’t getting in.

It’s a daunting feeling. I should know. Finding out that Snake was gone for Wii U was heartbreaking, for at least a little while.

You can’t blame people for trying, but everyone just needs to keep an open mind. It makes things easier, not only for Smash speculation but for life in general, in my opinion.

You know, I've come to terms with the fact that Paper Mario likely won't make the base roster. DLC? Maybe.

But...it does feel like this is poor Geno's very last shot of making it into Smash. So I guess the concept of him falling from grace just breaks my heart a little. I won't lie, a big part of me countering the box theory is of course me just simply not wanting it to be true. Is that selfish? I'm sure it is, but I try to make it clear how grateful I am that this game even exists.

But, hey...Incineroar's been a pipe dream since Day 1. so when he's confirmed I think, Box or not, I'll be damn happy. So, thanks Jones!

 

[Idon]

Why does everyone assume Ken is bassicly guaranteed in Smash ulitmate

1. Verg's sources said he's in
2. The box for the special edition skips a space on the last row, the row with Ryu on it

 

[PlasmaDam]

I mean The Smash Fanbase thinks that Characthers like Shadow Ken Inceraroar are basically confromied i dont mind it but im kinda of tired of people saying that when we they talk about new chracthers

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Verg, the way the box is organized, and just because it makes the most sense to a bunch of people

And after we got Richter, people thought the original generation Echo would be in. 3rd party echoes are a thing, so that led up to the belief. Verg only helped by confirming our theory he could get in. The Box theory works well within it too.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Lack of actual proof.
If it didn’t have holes, it wouldn’t be a theory. It would be fact.

I wouldn’t even say they’re holes as much as they are educated inferences that aren’t technically proven. That’s the biggest point. It’s not that they’re flawed, it’s that we don’t have enough data to confirm it. Because of that, it gets criticized.

To me, a hole would be something that literally makes no sense and in itself would be straw grasping.

Like I keep saying, any actual flaws or proof will be shown with time. Unfortunately, that’s pretty much it.

 

[majora_787]

I mean The Smash Fanbase thinks that Characthers like Shadow Ken Inceraroar are basically confromied i dont mind it but im kinda of tired of people saying that when we they talk about new chracthers

Sure, let's talk about something really controversial. Something SPICY.

Jack Frost as Atlus 3rd party newcomer.

 

[Thinkaman]

Okay, I think I get your post now;

You're saying the box may just be a deliberate red herring, right?
That's...really smart, actually. Hadn't considered that.

No, this is the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

Dismissing the "box theory" requires believing that the entire design of this special edition box was not just a placeholder, but an elaborate ruse deliberately coordinated across multiple languages for an undiscernible objective.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I mean Verg isnt Always True The Box doesnt mean anything Verg isnt a messiah or know everything