Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

Space foe echo ken. Space for isabelle.
Space for inceniroar.

Put Geno on the back.

2 more unique and 1 more echo.
Fits my thoughts on the css.

Why the hell would Geno be alone on the back lmao.

He's not freaking puppet Jesus or anything.

 

[Aurane]

Bad Box Art Theory

Honestly, all the leaks on the table I'm pushing aside. This game is coming out soon, and the roster looks absolutely divine. Whoever is next is purely icing.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

A box.

Spoiler: Huh?

I'm sure Nintendo is not careless enough to 'spoil' the remaining number of newcomers on a promotional photo... that seems very unlikely to say the least.

Except if it's another slip-up from the infamous 'Bloody tears' Intern-Kun

 

[Deleted member]

Could always be a costume along with Matthew.

That's would be enough. Shame Dark Dawn had to kill the franchise, because it has the best version of Isaac.

 

[Icedragonadam]

It's possible for the original 8 to be in the back with bigger artwork than the others.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here’s the thing folks. What i’m saying here isn’t just the boxart. I’m looking at it and comparing it to other information.

I’m comparing it to a leaker who, at this point, has been spot on. I am also including an educated observation on his behavior with that information. Basically, because Verge was not naming the character and has since seemed to back away, I am starting to believe that he has started to doubt it.

Then, if you follow the thread on Twitter that has been linked a few times, the information makes sense in terms of the formatting.

Then you have the fact that the stage total is marked at 103. Incineroar and Isabelle don’t necessarily have to have new stages. They are from series already in Smash.

Those are three tangible ideas that line up perfectly, should it hold true. I suppose it’s a mix of fact and speculation.

Look. I’m sorry if i’ve come across as rude I’m the last few pages. But folks, i’m only trying to make things just a smudge easier. I’m posing a thought out concept of what we could be looking at.

I’ve gotten the equivalence if sticking fingers in the ears and saying, “Lalalalalalala I cant hear you!”

The fact that it’s hardly being entertained by some people gives me the foreshadowing feeling that there’s gonna be a lot of salt. I don’t even care if you all keep discussing your favorite characters.

You need to keep this in the back of your mind though. I can drop it at this point if it really is a nuisance, but i’m honestly saying this to help avoid salt.

It’s a real possibility, based on speculation that has tangible evidence potential suggesting it. There isn’t evidence that suggests more unique or echo fighters beyond that as of right now.

That’s all i’m saying.

 

[UberMadman]

The box theory isn't based on Verg. It doesn't even technically require him to be correct.

Characters are divided into chunks of nine. This is fact. We can see this pattern in the side of the box we can see. Luigi is the 10th character (after the OG8+Dark Samus), and 9 characters brings us to Sheik. Then there's a gap of exactly 9 missing characters, and then we see Roy through Snake. This repeats the whole way down.

Except for the gap between Mii Fighter and Corrin, which is only 8 characters.

It's probably Ken, but it could, conceivably, be Medusa or the Pac Man ghosts or Zack Fair or whoever. As long as its an echo of one of those eight characters, it fills the gap.

That's the key point to the theory. The characters on the side we see require there to be an unannounced character on the other side in order to be listed the way they are. This suggests that the order is pre-planned and not just something that was thrown together by someone who only knows the currently announced characters.

THANK YOU FOR ELOQUENTLY SAYING WHAT I’VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY THIS WHOLE TIME. Seriously, it’s depressing to me too, but if you are assuming that the art on this box was made without knowledge of the roster, then there are 3 blank spots that are essentially put on it for no reason that you have to explain. If that’s not the full roster on the box, then why not just organize it in a way where the art doesn’t awkwardly cut off into an empty void? Occam’s razor suggests that the box does accomodate for all the characters and has merely chosen to sensor them out.

 

[LetterO]

Wario is most certainly not in the game. Get with it, everyone.

Why are people asking for Waluigi before we even get Wario?

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

Box theory checks out and makes perfect sense to me. Of course I'd love to be proven wrong however.

It can even work out with or without Vergeben having correct information (or some information incorrect) being that second SE character doesn't happen or is DLC or, here's another take on it from yours truly, the Pokemon being one of the first DLC characters instead. Of course if the latter were the case, the SE character would need to be someone that doesn't require a new stage if 103 is the final base number which...obviously narrows that down and probably why I want to believe my theory. You can check my signature for why.

 

[vaanrose]

So what you're saying is Shadow still livin.

If anything, this suggests the opposite, as Sonic's group of 9 is fully accounted for.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Why the hell would Geno be alone on the back lmao.

He's not freaking puppet Jesus or anything.

My point is the last character is supposed to be the biggest. The major seller.
Sonic and snake were on the back of the brawl box.

If not geno, someone big.

 

[MysticKnives]

You know even if this box art theory doesn't come true, it's still possible we won't get Shadow, right? Never assume a character is a lock.

Anyway, about Verg...it's still possible he could get some things wrong. Even if he's proven to be a credible leaker he's still gotten some stuff wrong in the past, hasn't he?

That said, I'm still taking a neutral stance on the box theory as it could go either way. We can't be sure until the game releases (or until Sakurai flat out says "this is the final newcomer count"). I could easily see us getting one unique newcomer and one echo, but come one guys, it is still just a mock up.

Smash wise I think Verg is is batting 100% right now

 

[papagenos]

realistically the BEST thing the box art theory has going for it is that its DISAPPOINTING and I think its way easier for us to think disappointment is "likely".

where as vergeben is "likely" because he keeps actually predicting characters. so i'm going with vergeben.

 

[Chrono.]

If anything, this suggests the opposite, as Sonic's group of 9 is fully accounted for.

So what you're saying is Shadow AND/OR Tails still livin'...

For DLC

 

[Nethermoosen]

the box HAS to be updated to add isabelle and fill in those spots right?

so its pretty much confirmed it isnt the final box art.

which means it will be changed. so if its going to update to add isabelle then its can update to add any amount of characters, even the back of the box could have some characters on it too.

basically i dont believe the box theory.

Seems to me that the box is probably just a format at this point. They can fill it as things change. Just like the big poster. The thing can be photoshopped repeatedly, even if the real boxes do have every character on them already.

 

[Momotsuki]

Even if Verg doesn't end up being totally right, it's blatantly clear he has a considerable amount of correct sources and to say he's just been getting lucky up until now is asinine.

 

[Deleted member]

photoshopped

The box is just a photoshopped Little Mac.

Pack it up everyone, my expert detective work has debunked this once and for all.

 

[Nazyrus]

Y'all are gullible af. I'm not buying the box theory. After seeing the presence of square Enix in the direct, I still think there's room for a SE rep to be included in the initial release, box art be damned.

Yeah that amount of love from SE was insane. Nobody ever expected so much in one blow. It's definitely good news for any SE type of character now.

 

[Chrono.]

My point is the last character is supposed to be the biggest. The major seller.
Sonic and snake were on the back of the brawl box.

If not geno, someone big.

Ridley would be pretty much that someone and he's on the side.

This isn't even me making a bad pun.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Honestly I'm seeing convincing arguments on both sides. It is pretty clear from the pattern that there is an unrevealed echo on the other side, but again, it still is possible for the box art to tweaked slightly.

I can't be the only one taking a neutral stance here, right?

 

[Deleted member]

Here’s the thing folks. What i’m saying here isn’t just the boxart. I’m looking at it and comparing it to other information.

I’m comparing it to a leaker who, at this point, has been spot on. I am also including an educated observation on his behavior with that information. Basically, because Verge was not naming the character and has since seemed to back away, I am starting to believe that he has started to doubt it.

Then, if you follow the thread on Twitter that has been linked a few times, the information makes sense in terms of the formatting.

Then you have the fact that the stage total is marked at 103. Incineroar and Isabelle don’t necessarily have to have new stages. They are from series already in Smash.

Those are three tangible ideas that line up perfectly, should it hold true. I suppose it’s a mix of fact and speculation.

Look. I’m sorry if i’ve come across as rude I’m the last few pages. But folks, i’m only trying to make things just a smudge easier. I’m posing a thought out concept of what we could be looking at.

I’ve gotten the equivalence if sticking fingers in the ears and saying, “Lalalalalalala I cant hear you!”

The fact that it’s hardly being entertained by some people gives me the foreshadowing feeling that there’s gonna be a lot of salt. I don’t even care if you all keep discussing your favorite characters.

You need to keep this in the back of your mind though. I can drop it at this point if it really is a nuisance, but i’m honestly saying this to help avoid salt.

It’s a real possibility, based on speculation that has tangible evidence potential suggesting it. There isn’t evidence that suggests more unique or echo fighters beyond that as of right now.

That’s all i’m saying.

Ah, okay, I see where you're coming from now.

I'm still entertaining the notion that Verge could still pull a Gematsu, but we can agree to disagree. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions in your previous post.

 

[Nazyrus]

Even if Verg doesn't end up being totally right, it's blatantly clear he has a considerable amount of correct sources and to say he's just been getting lucky up until now is asinine.

Naysayers gotta naysay, sadly. No matter how much he gets right, there will be always people saying that everything is a damn easy guess, lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Ridley would be pretty much that someone and he's on the side.

It's not even me making a bad pun.

Ridley's too big for the box tbh. I think his slot is a placeholder and there are 2 more new characters + echo of one of those 8.

 

[AugustusB]

This is a crazy theory, but i'm gonna say it anyways... I assume at least a couple characters won't be on the box to Simulate Unlockables, They will be announced before launch, but be some of the last characters announced. This can also be used to surprise some kids and new fans who didn't keep up with news and will be surprised at their inclusion just because they didn't see them on the box. Sure, Ken and Incineroar could be on the box, but maybe characters like Shadow and Geno will be announced a bit latter to simulate Unlockables. Sakurai still likes the Idea of Secret Characters, But the ESRB leak, has made him cautious and he just decides to announce these characters at the final direct or something like that. A really stretchy theory, but it's worth noting...

Now that would be a pleasant surprise. He didn't say he would showcase all the characters just that all the characters would be known.
So the last trailer could be the secret characters being shown, after Sakurai states 'There are some characters yet to be seen'. That way all the characters were shown!

 

[UberMadman]

realistically the BEST thing the box art theory has going for it is that its DISAPPOINTING and I think its way easier for us to think disappointment is "likely".

where as vergeben is "likely" because he keeps actually predicting characters. so i'm going with vergeben.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of ways they could both be right. Both seem to suggested Ken, and let’s say the remaining newcomer is one of the two that Vergeben has suggested, presumably the Pokémon. Maybe talks have already began for DLC, and Vergeben’s source only heard Sakurai reaching out to Square for a potential new rep? Maybe Vergeben’s source misunderstood, and the Square character isn’t a “character” at all, but something like an Assist Trophy instead? Or maybe Vergeben got some bad information mixed in with his legitimate information, as has happened to him in the past? There’s a lot of ways that both of these could be “accurate,” so to speak.

 

[Untouch]

Honestly I'm seeing convincing arguments on both sides. It is pretty clear from the pattern that there is an unrevealed echo on the other side, but again, it still is possible for the box art to tweaked slightly.

I can't be the only one taking a neutral stance here, right?

I'm neutral, but leaning towards it being real.
Just revealing the total count 3 months before launch is really weird to me, especially with how secretive Sakurai is.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Ridley would be pretty much that someone and he's on the side.

It's not even me making a bad pun.

Someone bigger than Ridley. I know it is rough, but there are ones out there.

And honestly, my idea of the css has no random button. Put randon in, and it is only 2 more characters.
So i still see the box adding up. It also is not to many newxomers.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Wait, what's this box theory now?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Wait, what's this box theory now?

Please look at the side of the box. People have been discussing it on twitter, but missing the significance of the ordering. Here, forgive my color-coding:

View attachment 164338

I took the liberty of adding Isabelle. Do you see the pattern? Here, let me help:

View attachment 164339

The fighters are in groups of 9, presented exactly the same as on the website and all other promotional materials. (Echoes in order, Miis and PT as single entries) The promotional images used on this box were clearly taken from a source location in which they were in sets/rows of 9.

This means we know what the other 4 sets of 9 looks like:

View attachment 164340

It's all very clean and works perfectly. With two big implications.

There is no room for an echo in any of the first 3 sets of 9. No Dixie, no Shadow, no whatever. It would throw everything off, and make the side of the box we can see look different.

But there is exactly one unaccounted for space in the final set of 9. Somewhere, there is an echo between Palutena and Cloud.

This is the other half of the box:

View attachment 164341

And of course, there is only room for one blank space after Isabelle, so that leaves one new character--possibly the Gen 7 Pokemon Vergeben alluded to.

----------

It's always possible that this is just a box, and the product designers chose to only show off 72 character slots arbitrarily.

But realistically, it looks like this is our roster.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Doing it by 9 would make sense. First 8 plus echo samus.
Would not make sense to put echo samus on the back.

Hmm. Thought went into that box.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Wait, what's this box theory now?

Yup here's the rundown

 

[Untouch]

Spoiler

Maybe the Square Enix rep is Zack, and Ken isn't in.

 

[MysticKnives]

Honestly I'm seeing convincing arguments on both sides. It is pretty clear from the pattern that there is an unrevealed echo on the other side, but again, it still is possible for the box art to tweaked slightly.

I can't be the only one taking a neutral stance here, right?

I’m completely neutral. Of course whether either side ends up right, DLC is more exciting for me to think about right now

 

[Chrono.]

One thing's for sure, no one's gonna agree on this box theory until the next Direct happens and that could take years.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Yes, I agree, we are inb4 there are more slots in the back of the box or some s*** like that.

Ridley would be pretty much that someone and he's on the side.

It might be new third parties.

Both seem to suggested Ken

People always seem to get their expectations blown away so maybe we wont get Ken at all based on that trend.

 

[Nethermoosen]

So we’re saying this is not the actual art for the other side?

Edit: My bad. Not even the right bundle. Lol

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Spoiler

Maybe the Square Enix rep is Zack, and Ken isn't in.

I doubt it. Ken is the OG Echo Fighter. He's too important in my opinion. At this point, I'm Guessing the Square Character is planned for DLC,

 

[PeridotGX]

They could easily just resize them. Plus, for all we know, the sides aren't symmectrical and there's another row of characters on the other side.

I do think the Ken thing may mean something though.

 

[Momotsuki]

Sorry, but I'm really not buying the box theory. It's just not concrete and unlike, say, Vergeben, there isn't really a pattern of past events to back it up. Hey, I could be wrong though.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

They could easily just resize them. Plus, for all we know, the sides aren't symmectrical and there's another row of characters on the other side.

I do think the Ken thing may mean something though.

But isabelle Isn't on the box...
man, I'm so Confuzzled