Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Untouch]

Well at least we can still hype up potential bosses.. right?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

But Shadow tho...

Why would they remove his assist trophy and not make him a echo?...

He's such a popular character and him being an echo makes too much sense...

Shadow has to be playable right...

Right...

pls
View attachment 164350

Skullkid is weirdly gone from his assist too. People are saying bosses but really? If you're gonna animate a small character like that you might as well just make them a complete fighter.

I honestly dont know

 

[drag0nscythe]

I do not understand the box ordering. Can someone explain. Feels randomish. I see a pattern. But cannot place it.

 

[Deleted member]

No offense, but what you're saying isn't based on anything.

You're basically saying that because "there COULD be more" that there's no reason to believe anything. Vergeben "could be wrong" despite not being wrong yet. If you would have read my other posts, you would know that I believe the SE character that Verg mentioned was fake, which is why he hasn't mentioned it as much recently.

The willful ignorance comes from ignoring anything I've said. I linked what I believe the other side of the box would look like based on actual information. I have linked the twitter thread that uses actual information. I am basing this all on, you guessed it, actual information.

To not even entertain the idea that this is the final roster is acting with willful ignorance. I could be wrong. Nothing is impossible. But I'm not simply basing this on nothing. I'm lining up information that sits in front of us.

Do you have links that this actual information is true? You claim we are speculating and that you have fact, when it seems to me that your facts are your own speculation. Is this info from Nintendo themselves? Is there a leak with irrefutable evidence? I'm not trying to be rude, I am legitimately curious.

Until Nintendo themselves come out and confirm the characters, everything any leaker says, no matter how trustworth, should be taken with a grain of salt IMO. To assume "X = A because B = C" without any actual, straight from the horse's mouth proof is speculation, and IMO, not fact.

StarFox Grand Prix still might happen though. They said it probably wouldn’t be shown at E3.

True, I definitely could have used a better example, lol. I kinda hope it is, it sounded cool.

 

[MysticKnives]

Base:
Ken(E)
Incineroar

DLC:
Dixie Kong(E)
Geno
Isaac
Shadow(E)

How satisfied would people be with this being it? I for one would be disappointed because none of my current top 3 most wanted made it.

It’d be meh for me for the most part.

 

[Shroob]

Frankly, I don't understand this 'smashdown' theory.


Because if you include Miis, it's 72.


Yeah, they weren't in the trailer.


But at the same time, they weren't in the ESRB roster either. Miis don't show up until you actually make one.

 

[Nazyrus]

A million times this ^. Until 'The Box' is shown in its full glory (back and both sides) this is all speculation and certainly not the final nail to our character speculating.

Maybe the original 8 are on the back of the box in a row?
-Gives us 10 more characters to look forward to.

The original 8 could be on the back and those blank spaces are just there for ***** and giggles
-That gives us 8 more characters to look forward to.

Maybe I am crazy? But in the end, we're all a little crazy.

All in all, nothing is set in stone until the next direct.

Exactly.

I mean, people here like to say that speculating should be based on proof we have and such… but then we don't have proof that both sides are showing characters. We are only seeing ONE side. There is NO reason to believe and base our speculation solely on "both sides showing the full roster". People are just ASSUMING it and discarding the total possibility that it will be resized and show all the roster in one side, since it makes even more sense marketing wise to see a box side show ALL of the characters, instead of splitting it in both sides of the box. HELL, people are even discarding the OTHER posibility that this side of the box could just be showing SOME of the characters as promotion for the product and have a text say "over more than XX playable characters!". There is no rule written in stone saying we have to get the entire roster shown in the freaking box. People are just making up their one single rule to be scared about how many newcomers are actually left to be announced. If Verg is gonna be right about the 3 characters left to be announced (and hell if there are more he still doesn't know about), then assuming 2 is all what we got left is instantly wrong, and like i said in a comment before, ken and incineroar being the last ones would totally not be hype at all for the final push of marketing of this game, they are not "last reveal" level of hype AT ALL. I'm done, have fun ya'all

 

[Zippo]

Saw the videos, dashed over here.

Yup, knew exactly where this was going.

The doom and gloom is starting.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Well at least we can still hype up potential bosses.. right?

Like Skull Kid??
Let's admit it. Even if this Box theory isn't true, Skull Kid probably isn't a character. He's probably a boss..

 

[TheCJBrine]

Well at least we can still hype up potential bosses.. right?

No one cares about bosses Giygas or riot!

Like Skull Kid??
Let's admit it. Even if this Box theory isn't true, Skull Kid probably isn't a character. He's probably a boss..

I'd bet a different boss from Zelda is 1000000x more likely than Skull Kid unless they use his Twilight Princess appearance (you never fight him in Majora's Mask).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So not to brag but.

I first posted the Smashdown theory . Come at me doods.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I still can’t believe all those main line FF titles are coming to a Nintendo console after so long, how can people say the Direct was disappointing after that?

Like, it’s so surreal we are finally getting FFVII after 20 years and that game was originally going to be on the N64, let that sink in...

Now i really hope the second SquareEnix rep is from any of those games.

give me Vivi or Zidane pls.

 

[ZephyrZ]

He also has 57 different death animations depending on what move kills him.

No, don't throw out actually cool ideas like that, you're going to ruin it! Now I actually want him and am going to be disappointed if he's not in the game.

Of course, I'm still assuming he's going to be in the game, but hypothetically speaking if he isn't I'll be upset.

 

[BluePikmin11]

if discussion of the box theory gets continually enforced throughout waiting for reveals, I am probably gonna take a break from this site (And the Source Gaming Discord) and go watch/read some anime/manga and study for classes. I am very open to the box theory, but I do not wanna hear the same thing all over again, continually being told to face reality for the next three months if that is all discussion is going to be. Reading people's theories about the roster being pure ballot was already annoying enough prior to Isabelle's reveal. Speculation in general is gonna go from interesting to the most uninteresting thing to talk about ever.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The thing is... Vergeven didn't say anything about Incineroar. He said that Decidueye, Mimikyu or Lycanrock aren't the Gen7 rep. Maybe there isn't a PKMN rep at all if you follow his words.The last newcomer could be the fire tiger or anyone else if you ask me. The shot of a echo in the other side is more solid, and Ken fits. The boxart theory seems solid this way: echo between Palutena and Cloud and a final unique. The echo can be Medusa and the final fighter Lara Croft of you want to go with a SE second fighter.
But Verge is not a really accurate source, remember this, got some mistakes in the past, by now is correct with Smash but maybe some info could be wrong.
Man, it sucks, but the boxart theory seems hard to debunk right now. It,s a WIP but... Sorry for Banjo and Dixie but i'm on the boxart boat by now.

But he says "the Gen VII rep", implying that there in fact is a Gen VII rep.

 

[Dee Dude]

Dang....talk about bittersweet.

I know Sakurai said don’t expect many newcomers but he truly meant it huh?

I’m still excited and happy for this game...but it hurts knowing there’s so many fan picks that are still left out in the dust for this.

No Isaac, No Banjo, No Bandana Dee, No Shadow....geez, guess it comes at the cost of wanting everyone back.

Incinaroar and Ken are good picks and I know DLC can be a thing but wouldn’t it have been amazing to see all those beloved candidates being announced in glorious HD CGI trailers to build so much hype?

Either way if the box bundle is true, then I’m pretty bummed out...but if Spirits is a Subspace like Mode at least then I’ll remained satisfied.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Base:
Ken(E)
Incineroar

DLC:
Dixie Kong(E)
Geno
Isaac
Shadow(E)

How satisfied would people be with this being it? I for one would be disappointed because none of my current top 3 most wanted made it.

Rex will definitely be DLC. Sakurai loves that boy.
Spring Man probably too, and I’d put some money on Edelgard but not too much.

Personally I’d just replace Isaac with Skull Kid and be thrilled.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well at least we can still hype up potential bosses.. right?

Yep.

I'm hoping for Deathborn, General Scales w/ King RedEye, Hades (As an recurring antagonist in Spirits), King Boo and Waluigi (As this joke boss who gets defeated in one hit by the player like how Electricutioner in Arkham Orgins and Mysterio in one of the Spider-Man games did. ).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

So not to brag but.

I first posted the Smashdown theory . Come at me doods.

Frankly, I don't understand this 'smashdown' theory.


Because if you include Miis, it's 72.


Yeah, they weren't in the trailer.


But at the same time, they weren't in the ESRB roster either. Miis don't show up until you actually make one.

On the contrary, the game's not over yet!

Spoiler

The Mii Fighters might be on there anyways though so...

 

[Pyra]

if discussion of the box theory gets continually enforced throughout waiting for reveals, I am probably gonna take a break from this site (And the Source Gaming Discord and go watch/read some anime/manga and study for classes. I am very open to the box theory, but I do not wanna hear the same thing all over again, continually being told to face reality for the next three months if that is all discussion is going to be. Reading people's theories about the roster being pure ballot was already annoying enough prior to Isabelle's reveal. Speculation is gonna go from interesting to the most uninteresting thing to talk about ever.

It's coming to be that time where speculation just kinda frays out and gets stale, yeah.
Like, more than usual, I mean.

 

[Shroob]

Ken is the only echo his ever claimed to have known anything about besides Isabelle Isabelle where he said she was an echo and then turned out to be unique. Ken could be unique. He could. But that would break the box theory either way. If Ken is an echo as Verge says then he's also likely correct about AT LEAST the Square character and Gen 7 Mon. Which ALSO breaks the box theory. You can either trust Vergeben or believe the box theory and so far Verge has been far more reliable than the marketing.

Simon, Incineroar, Ken, Isabelle and SE rep are "About half a dozen more", keyword being 'about'.


And even now, Verg is second guessing the 2nd SE rep. Just yesterday he was really acting skeptical about in on Gamefaqs.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

What the HELL did I miss seriously

 

[Zinith]

Phew, just got back from the Bob-omb thread. You guys still on the box theory?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Do you have links that this actual information is true? You claim we are speculating and that you have fact, when it seems to me that your facts are your own speculation. Is this info from Nintendo themselves? Is there a leak with irrefutable evidence? I'm not trying to be rude, I am legitimately curious.

Until Nintendo themselves come out and confirm the characters, everything any leaker says, no matter how trustworth, should be taken with a grain of salt IMO. To assume "X = A because B = C" without any actual, straight from the horse's mouth proof is speculation, and IMO, not fact.



True, I definitely could have used a better example, lol. I kinda hope it is, it sounded cool.

What information are you asking about? I can't confirm Ken and Incineroar are in the game myself, but the information lines up. Assuming other characters are in causes other things to not make as much sense. Everything else is linked in one of my previous comments. I can always link it again, but it will take me a few minutes to do.

Basically I've been saying everybody needs to temper their expectations, and no one is listening. That's mainly why I'm posting what I'm posting.

 

[Untouch]

What the HELL did I miss seriously

Smash Ultimate's equivalent of the ESRB leak.

 

[Blargg888]

Also food for thought...

Assuming Ken and Incineroar is the end of the roster, that means Smash Ultimate will have added 18 more characters than the last game had.

I don't think you guys realize how big of a number that is.

Melee added 14 (12 to 26). Brawl added 13 (26 to 39). Smash 4 added 12 (39 to 51) and then another 7 (51 to 58, totals to 19).

We have an additional 18 fighters without DLC.

And with DLC... we'll probably hit like 25 more characters than Smash 4 had.

That just blows my mind.

Honestly, this is a bit of a confusing read, and I'm pretty sure it's not all correct, maybe.
So let me see if I understand your comment correctly.

Smash Ultimate has 9 newcomers so far: 4 Echoes and 5 originals.
Even if you include returning veterans in that number, that only brings it up to 15. And if you include PT as 3 instead of 1, that instead makes it 17. One short of 18.

Brawl had 16 newcomers. If you count PT as 3, then Brawl had 18.

That means that Brawl added 18 characters. The reason that it's only 13 more total is because 5 characters were also removed at the same time.

The same can be said about how you Have Smash 4 listed as 12, despite the fact that Pre-DLC Smash 4 actually added 17 additional characters, and brought back 1 previous cut. So Smash 4's Pre-DLC character number additions is actually also 18. DLC is a bit weird, since Lucas was in Brawl, but basically, it added 7 characters. Which brings Smash 4 up to 25 total additions.

If Ken and Incineroar get added, (or any two characters really), then Ultimate will have 19 additional characters, one more than 18. Which will put it over Brawl and Initial-Smash 4 by one.
In order to surpass Smash 4's total however, we'd need to get at least 7 DLC characters. Just as Smash 4 did. Or more, of course.

Is this what you're saying?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Rex will definitely be DLC. Sakurai loves that boy.
Spring Man probably too, and I’d put some money on Edelgard but not too much.

Personally I’d just replace Isaac with Skull Kid and be thrilled.

No longer am I a firm believer of that box theory. It's as ridiculous as the chairs was and I bought into that too.

I can honestly expect Rex & Pyra honestly at this point.

 

[Starbound]

if discussion of the box theory gets continually enforced throughout waiting for reveals, I am probably gonna take a break from this site (And the Source Gaming Discord and go watch/read some anime/manga and study for classes. I am very open to the box theory, but I do not wanna hear the same thing all over again, continually being told to face reality for the next three months if that is all discussion is going to be. Reading people's theories about the roster being pure ballot was already annoying enough prior to Isabelle's reveal. Speculation is gonna go from interesting to the most uninteresting thing to talk about ever.

Don't you remember that's what life was like here after the ESRB leak?

We just got our equivalent leak earlier than a month before release.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Smash Ultimate's equivalent of the ESRB leak.

See I appreciate the answer, but I would also like an explanation beyond "**** ****ed"

 

[Arcadenik]

ffs, Vergeben never said "6 Unique characters"

He said "At least half a dozen more"


Nowhere there did he use the word "Unique"


People just choose to believe "When Vergeben says characters, he means uniques, not Echoes, because Echoes aren't 'real' characters".

When did he say this? It was right after E3 2018.

1. Inkling
2. Daisy
3. Ridley

Then at least a half a dozen more. That’s 6.

4. Simon
5. Richter
6. Chrom
7. Dark Samus
8. King K. Rool
9. Isabelle

We got our “at least half a dozen more” newcomers.

Then if the box theory proves true and I believe it’s true...

10. Ken
11. Incineroar

 

[NintenRob]

What the HELL did I miss seriously

https://smashboards.com/threads/bas...-ken-one-final-newcomer.458449/#post-22431356

This

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

See I appreciate the answer, but I would also like an explanation beyond "**** ****ed"

Here, this will help

 

[Pyra]

Phew, just got back from the Bob-omb thread. You guys still on the box theory?

Hey Zinith, how are you doing?

Yeah. I got tired of it after entertaining it for 5 posts.
I do hope we shift into final speculation phase at some point, the part where everyone either eats their hearts out or it kinda fizzles out anticlimactically.

It's just gonna be like this for 1.5-2ish months until the next Smash direct. Haha.

 

[Will]

I don't know if F-Zero can even have a boss. Black Shadow, maybe? He's Deathborn himself in the GP/Climax timeline but I got no clue.

 

[Chrono.]

What the HELL did I miss seriously

I'd just watch this.

 

[Zinith]

The ESRB leak was something outside of Nintendo's control. This however is WELL within their control...

 

[Luigi The President]

Still considering what I believe about this leak.
But I can tell you this.

This thread is in a civil war now that I do not expect to end until the next character reveals.

 

[Deleted member]

So long as the total number of characters (including echoes) reaches 80 once DLC's done, I'll be good. We're just so close to Crusade.

We'll never truly reach it because Goku is an impossibility, but what we have right now is the closest we'll ever get.

 

[Nethermoosen]

DaybreakHorizon
Do you have the Vergeben leak where he claimed 6 newcomers? I need to see if he said the newcomers would be unique or not.

 

[Untouch]

The only thing pushing me away from believing the box theory is that Nintendo doesn't seem like the company that would reveal the number of characters this early before launch. They've been shifting the mural around for a reason.

I'm remaining cautiously pessimistic at this point, I want to be proven wrong.