Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ramen Tengoku]

In that case, why did they leave a spot for Ken?

Why would they not add Isabelle if they added Ken?

 

[Nazyrus]

If they could do that, why wouldn't they design the WIP box to not have any blank space?

Why would they miss Isabelle since it's being revealed in the same direct this special thing is also? Hell maybe there was another two characters going to be revealed in this direct and it was edited because of the earthquake ? (felix and isaac for example). I don't know, ask Nintendo why they do the stuff they do. It's not the first time I've seen placeholder images for products in such way and they end being completely different than people expect. People trying to find a reason to be scared over such a pointless placeholder box, is just beyond me at this point.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

What did I miss?

 

[Starbound]

Also for what it's worth, even if we do entertain the possibility of a row on the back of the box, alongside the usual pictures and labels in a million different languages, we have a loooong list of echoes that are deconfirmed as they have to be next to their original fighter.

No Ninten, No Black Shadow, No Impa, No Dark Meta Knight/Galacta Knight, no Jeanne, no Octoling.

I'm curious what the other side looks like so more characters can be deconfirmed.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Can we get the poll changed to “Is the box art correct?” or “Will there only be two more characters?”

 

[papagenos]

Didn't verge also mention a Gen 7 Pokemon?

Where are you getting Geno from?

If Vergeben is true then it's Ken and Incineroar. Vergeben has no idea who the Square character is, and is much less confident in it than the other two.

true, edited it to add incineroar but yeah either way i dont believe the box theory anyway.

 

[ZephyrZ]

You know even if this box art theory doesn't come true, it's still possible we won't get Shadow, right? Never assume a character is a lock.

Anyway, about Verg...it's still possible he could get some things wrong. Even if he's proven to be a credible leaker he's still gotten some stuff wrong in the past, hasn't he?

That said, I'm still taking a neutral stance on the box theory as it could go either way. We can't be sure until the game releases (or until Sakurai flat out says "this is the final newcomer count"). I could easily see us getting one unique newcomer and one echo, but come one guys, it is still just a mock up.

 

[Untouch]

I'm getting flashbacks to when people thought nintendo was going to patch in more characters when the wiiU version of smash 4 launched.

 

[GAINAX]

In that case, why did they leave a spot for Ken?

Because that's probably one of the characters they know about. I mean, Vergeben's source clearly knows. I doubt his source is anyone from Japan. More likely someone from NOA.

 

[Starbound]

What did I miss?

A box.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

D...damn buddy
Be safe? This is...this is kinda sudden. Hang in there

I just don't want any distractions in trying to better myself and find work rn

I'll be fine tho

 

[Deleted member]

In that case, why did they leave a spot for Ken?

Why is Ken 100% confirmed now? If we're willing to entertain the 2nd Square rep is false, why are we not entertaining Ken being false? Why are we not willing to entertain Incineroar being false when Verge himself doubts it?

If it's because "Verge said he's confident", Gematsu said he was confident. Mother 3 leakers said they were confident. Star Fox racing people were confident. Loz said he was confident. Every leaker claims they are confident in their rumors, so why is this a special case? Why is this the one to be 100% ironclad? Why is there no room for doubt?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm sorry, but it's literal willful ignorance to consider that this is exactly how it's going to be.
Already consider the fact that Isabelle isn't included in the boxart, there's potentially three characters missing, and the fact that we actually don't have the full design of the box. Not to mention, promotional teams actually don't know the content of the game outside of materials they're handed.
Even Sakurai said no one knew about the veterans and newcomers.

What you're relying on is literally a mock up.
It's subject to change at any time, just like how all mural theories got shot down.

Your claims for two more potential characters, Ken and Incineroar, rely on Vergeben's rumors. Yet, you still ignore the fact that there's a potential Square Enix character.
And people have been dismissive of it, due to vagueness, but then that means Incineroar is out of the running.
Given only one source was completely confident on the starter's inclusion. Everyone of his sources couldn't actually pin down a Pokémon.

Like I get it if you want to keep expectations low, but it's outright bewildering me if you're going to take this as objective fact and the basis for the roster.
Like you said, this is a thread on speculation. Apart of speculation is putting evidence against it and seeing how it holds.

No offense, but what you're saying isn't based on anything.

You're basically saying that because "there COULD be more" that there's no reason to believe anything. Vergeben "could be wrong" despite not being wrong yet. If you would have read my other posts, you would know that I believe the SE character that Verg mentioned was fake, which is why he hasn't mentioned it as much recently.

The willful ignorance comes from ignoring anything I've said. I linked what I believe the other side of the box would look like based on actual information. I have linked the twitter thread that uses actual information. I am basing this all on, you guessed it, actual information.

To not even entertain the idea that this is the final roster is acting with willful ignorance. I could be wrong. Nothing is impossible. But I'm not simply basing this on nothing. I'm lining up information that sits in front of us.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Why is Ken 100% confirmed now? If we're willing to entertain the 2nd Square rep is false, why are we not entertaining Ken being false? Why are we not willing to entertain Incineroar being false when Verge himself doubts it?

If it's because "Verge said he's confident", Gematsu said he was confident. Mother 3 leakers said they were confident. Star Fox racing people were confident. Loz said he was confident. Every leaker claims they are confident in their rumors, so why is this a special case? Why is this the one to be 100% ironclad? Why is there no room for doubt?

StarFox Grand Prix still might happen though. They said it probably wouldn’t be shown at E3.

 

[Momotsuki]

I'm getting flashbacks to when people thought nintendo was going to patch in more characters when the wiiU version of smash 4 launched.

Technically they did. You just had to pay to actually use them yourself.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm getting flashbacks to when people thought nintendo was going to patch in more characters when the wiiU version of smash 4 launched.

But they did. I've been an Impa main and Chorus Kids secondary since 2014. Strange they haven't been confirmed even though everyone is here. I guess the "connect 3DS to Wii U to unlock" characters aren't real enough...

 

[Nimbostratus]

When I first saw the box art with the two spaces, I laughed to myself, "I can't wait to get on SmashBoards and see someone suggest we only have one character left after Isabelle."
Unfortunately, after seeing the math, the convenient placement to slip in Ken, (mostly) aligning with Vergeben, and fitting the 103 stage number... there is legitimate reason to believe it might be true. It's not a done deal, obviously, but there is a lot more evidence for this than other ideas discussed like the chair theory ever had.
Disappointing as it would be, Isaac and Banjo are really the only major names thrown about right now that I'm particularly invested in, so I'll survive. If we get more, great, if not... life goes on and we wait for DLC. 50/50 in my book, since the design could easily change. Guess we'll see how it plays out after cooler heads prevail. Not really anything can be done to temper the chaos for now, though, so I'm bouncing out.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I don't know who to believe anymore

for now I'll just assume my remaining wanted newcomers have been Thanos'd

it'll help me focus on other things too like potential jobs, still on the job hunt

see you guys in December. Or if somehow someone that isn't Incineroar, Ken or any Square character is announced next, I may return sooner

my profile has all alternate means of reaching me. till then, ciao

Sayonara Sonomura

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

A box.

You mean...

 

[Will]

StarFox Grand Prix still might happen though. They said it probably wouldn’t be shown at E3.

isn't it really weird that star fox has really been being pushed for the past few years?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Alright so this is it then. Give or take but here's my final prediction. I ain't gonna believe some box theory. To think I actually bought into it in the first place...

Newcomers:
Geno(70)
Incineroar(69)

Echo Fighters:
Black Knight(32e), Impa(16e) or Octoling(64e)
Dixie Kong(36e)
Ken(60e)
Shadow(38e)

What do you guys think?

 

[Nap_]

The thing is... Vergeven didn't say anything about Incineroar. He said that Decidueye, Mimikyu or Lycanrock aren't the Gen7 rep. Maybe there isn't a PKMN rep at all if you follow his words.The last newcomer could be the fire tiger or anyone else if you ask me. The shot of a echo in the other side is more solid, and Ken fits. The boxart theory seems solid this way: echo between Palutena and Cloud and a final unique. The echo can be Medusa and the final fighter Lara Croft of you want to go with a SE second fighter.
But Verge is not a really accurate source, remember this, got some mistakes in the past, by now is correct with Smash but maybe some info could be wrong.
Man, it sucks, but the boxart theory seems hard to debunk right now. It,s a WIP but... Sorry for Banjo and Dixie but i'm on the boxart boat by now.

 

[7982Brick]

I'm suspicious of this box art theory. One echo and one newcomer with three months left to go? I... don’t see that as especially realistic - why frontload your reveals so much?

 

[Thermithral]

This reminds me of the Gematsu leaks, and as such I am hoping for a similar result. A seemingly random character (Lucina and Robin before) shows up instead of one "locked" by leakers (Chrom), and we move on.

Or not, because as I have said, Ridley is in, I am good.

 

[ZephyrZ]

"Hope for the best, expect the worst."

I'm personally going to assume that the last newcomer is Bubsy the Bobcat and that his special character gimmick is that he takes fall damage after jumping too high. That way there's no way I'm going to be disappointed.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Would the promotional team even know anything related to characters?

They probably just made this mockup as a placeholder, without trying to hint anything, and couldn't find a way to fit this many characters without blanks.

Let's not pretend this isn't a possibility.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I'm suspicious of this box art theory. One echo and one newcomer with three months left to go? I... don’t see that as especially realistic - why frontload your reveals so much?

Can someone explain this to me cause I have no idea what we're talking about

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Can we get the poll changed to “Is the box art correct?” or “Will there only be two more characters?”

yes.

YES.

A box.

Life isn't fair, don't you think? A sole box will cause the deconfirmation of 6 billion characters.

StarFox Grand Prix still might happen though. They said it probably wouldn’t be shown at E3.

adding to this: showing Star Fox GP (if it's real) at E3 when Starlink was there would have probably been a financial disaster. there's a reason that they didn't announce the Metroid 2 remake immediately after Prime 4.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

But Shadow tho...

Why would they remove his assist trophy and not make him a echo?...

He's such a popular character and him being an echo makes too much sense...

Shadow has to be playable right...

Right...

pls

 

[Schnee117]

You can believe Verge and the Box Theory.
The guy has multiple sources and they can't all agree on the SE character. Good chance some are bogus or are adding false info too.
There's also DLC, after Smash 4 and considering Sakurai's stance on it I wouldn't be surprised if he planned DLC a bit earlier this time.

I'd love for the box stuff to be wrong but reality is a *****

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Alright so this is it then. Give or take but here's my final prediction. I ain't gonna believe some box theory. To think I actually bought into it in the first place...

Newcomers:
Geno(70)
Incineroar(69)

Echo Fighters:
Black Knight(32e), Impa(16e) or Octoling(64e)
Dixie Kong(36e)
Ken(60e)
Shadow(38e)

What do you guys think?

Remove Black Shadow, and Octoling, and you have about the same predictions as me

 

[Momotsuki]

The thing is... Vergeven didn't say anything about Incineroar.

Who is this Vergeven individual? Is he Vergeben's evil twin from planet Zebes who's information is incorrect?

 

[Malkior7]

Is there a link to the pre order page where this box image is? I can't find it anywhere including the official site

 

[Chandeelure]

I'm getting flashbacks to when people thought nintendo was going to patch in more characters when the wiiU version of smash 4 launched.

Who is ready for the Tower of Smash?!

 

[AlphaSSB]

Another thing is that if this theory holds true, than the Smashdown theory also comes true.

72 fighters total is divisible by the golden number for the Smashdown theory, twelve.

Two players going through Smashdown leads to 36 rounds. Three players leads to 24 rounds. Four players leads to 18 rounds.

Things keep stacking up...

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'm suspicious of this box art theory. One echo and one newcomer with three months left to go? I... don’t see that as especially realistic - why frontload your reveals so much?

Some guys just bust too early. I’ve been there. We’ve all been there I’m sure.

But also maybe because Spirit Mode is going to take over the hype for the last month or so.

Or maybe they really just wanted to reveal everything by mid-November so not much can be leaked, since leaks happen closer to release.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm personally going to assume that the last newcomer is Bubsy the Bobcat and that his special character gimmick is that he takes fall damage after jumping too high.

He also has 57 different death animations depending on what move kills him.

 

[Starbound]

I'm suspicious of this box art theory. One echo and one newcomer with three months left to go? I... don’t see that as especially realistic - why frontload your reveals so much?

Reveals are always frontloaded...

and were the final characters revealed for their games pre-launch...

Plus they could spend the time hyping Spirits mode instead.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Remove Black Shadow, and Octoling, and you have about the same predictions as me

You think Impa is more likely then them? That's why I said either of them. Also I said Black Knight not Black Shadow.

 

[ZephyrZ]

But Shadow tho...

Why would they remove his assist trophy and not make him a echo?...

He's such a popular character and him being an echo makes too much sense...

Shadow has to be playable right...

Right...

pls
View attachment 164350

It's fully possible his assist trophy is still in the game and they just haven't shown it yet.

Or maybe they opted to not put the trophy in so that it wouldn't conflict with later DLC (although I see this as unlikely).