Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[lightdrago]

The first point is one of my biggest issues I have with this whole theory.
We're throwing in Incineroar and Ken due to Vergeben. Don't act like most people expected Incineroar in a playable capacity before Vergeben.
So what about his Squenix rep?

I mentioned it earlier, I think the Square Enix Character could be DLC. Mewtwo was announced for DLC before the WiiU version was released, so perhaps the Smash team is planning them out.

 

[Starbound]

Well if this was true AND vergebens true.

it would likely be Ken and Geno for the final 2.

I dont believe this theory but there ya go.

Where are you getting Geno from?

If Vergeben is true then it's Ken and Incineroar. Vergeben has no idea who the Square character is, and is much less confident in it than the other two.

 

[Autobot N]

In that case...guess it's time to start listing your "didn't make it" character graveyard.

For me... R.I.P. Elma, Waddle Dee, Chorus Kids, Black Shadow, Lloyd, Neku, Fiora who's in Shulk's FS anyways...

most of my others could easily become DLC, but I feel like for my first 4, it was base or bust...

In memoriam, I guess

For me (if this is real, which I don't completely believe), that would be every one of my wanted newcomers except for Incineroar.

 

[Untouch]

I'd like to see what Vergeben says about this seeing how it contradicts what he's been saying all along.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is the thread's favorite movie.

For real guys, its certainly more likely than that chair tripe half of you believed.

 

[Sølid]

Alright, here’s how all this adds up.

Vergeben Theory: 6 UNIQUE fighters after Ridley. We have seen 3. K. Rool, Simon, Isabelle. We still have 3 more to go. If this is true, then Box Theory and Smashdown Theory are wrong and Ken is unique.

If Box Theory is right, so is Smashdown Theory, but Vergeben will have been wrong.

If Smashdown Theory is right AND Vergeben is right, then we must have exactly 14 more fighters and at least 3 must be unique.

Vergeben and Box Theory clash.

@papagenos

What is the Smashdown Theory?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sooo, what do we expect to happen? There's a new Smash Direct he goes over the new mode, detours to show randomly Ken as an echo, and then announce Inceneroar with a trailer? That doesn't make much sense. Smash has always had a clear cut way of segmenting stuff and making it make sense. Throwing out one last echo and then Inceneroar doesn't match that.

Call me crazy but Sakurai always had a clear way of announcing things in this game and when he said, we can talk about this mode later, I think he meant to look forward to the next Smash Direct. If we get one of those I think it'll have more than just Ken and Inceneroar, even if it's just one more echo I think 2 is not all that's left. I think there is at least one more. Besides Inceneroar and Ken.

In the next Smash Bros. Direct I can see them going more in depth over King K. Rool and Isabelle's movesets, and when he's done with that he'll go "since we're on the topic of new fighters there is one last Echo Fighter I wanted to share with you" and then he reveals Ken.

 

[Luigi The President]

I mentioned it earlier, I think the Square Enix Character could be DLC. Mewtwo was announced for DLC before the WiiU version was released, so perhaps the Smash team is planning them out.

Here's the thing. The game was out when Mewtwo was released. On 3DS, yet, but Smash 4 was out and being played by the time Mewtwo was revealed IIRC.
We don't have that this time.

I doubt it'd make much difference, but...it may.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Damn y'all just really took Geno and Shadow out to the back behind the shed and shot them huh
Don't tell me you guys think they would've spoiled "2 more characters left" like this

It's not so much that as it is that it all fits together too snugly.

If Ken and Incineroar are all that remains, then the box could look something like this.

This fits quite snugly on both sides of the box. Sure, there could be more. But either one side would be uneven, or it would be completely different. If there were more than two on the visible side, why not just make K.Rool the last one in the placeholder?

The following Twitter thread explains things nicely as well. Swamp Sensei originally posted this earlier. https://twitter.com/ConnorEatsPants/status/1040744991176486912?s=19

This being the final roster also confirms what Sakurai implied. The total amount of stages on base roster for Smash Ultimate is 103. Neither Isabelle, Incineroar or Ken would require a new stage, which would now make three connections that corroborate 2 more Newcomers.
---
Now, this isn't directed at you Luigi The President , but I want to say this, and I really don't want to be that guy but I'm gonna say it.

You guys call this Smash speculation? Speculation is based on taking the information and dissecting it, analyzing it, and coming to a conclusion. The people saying it's "just a boxart" are literally coming to that conclusion by ignoring ALL OF THE INFORMATION that seemingly stacks up.

That's not speculation. That's willful ignorance. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I personally want there to be more characters waiting for us. But the information we've been given seems to piece together so snugly that it just makes too much sense.

Again, everybody needs to take a deep breath and think about it.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys what did I miss-

*Sees box talk*

Nice to see we've hit the part of Smash speculation where every scenario is a doomsday scenario filled with the worst of the worst happening because...reasons.

Look, I know I've said to keep expectations low, and I'm all for the only two or so left theory, but to automatically assume that Vergeben is 100% right with no errors at all, when even he himself is doubtful about Incineroar? Some here are claiming this is ESRB all over again...but to me, this whole thing is Gematsu all over again. Let's just wait and see what happens before panicking. If most theories are correct, we only have about a month and a half of speculation left. For all we know, Incineroar is a Pokeball 'Mon, Ken's an assist, and Dante is the final newcomer. We just don't know, and trying to prove anything as "fact" right now does nothing but stir the pot.

If this does pan out, though, let's all try to be happy for the people who wanted these characters. They may not be special to you, but that doesn't mean they aren't special to someone else.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Still pulling out hope that either Banjo-Kazooie, Black Shadow and Medusa makes DLC. Banjo-Kazooie and Medusa has better chances then Black Shadow with the former being more likely then the other two.

 

[Will]

All for Incineroar when my better rep Buzzwole is in the back unnoticed.

 

[Luigi The President]

It's not so much that as it is that it all fits together too snugly.

If Ken and Incineroar are all that remains, then the box could look something like this.
View attachment 164346

This fits quite snugly on both sides of the box. Sure, there could be more. But either one side would be uneven, or it would be completely different. If there were more than two on the visible side, why not just make K.Rool the last one in the placeholder?

The following Twitter thread explains things nicely as well. Swamp Sensei originally posted this earlier. https://twitter.com/ConnorEatsPants/status/1040744991176486912?s=19

This being the final roster also confirms what Sakurai implied. The total amount of stages on base roster for Smash Ultimate is 103. Neither Isabelle, Incineroar or Ken would require a new stage, which would now make three connections that corroborate 2 more Newcomers.
---
Now, this isn't directed at you Luigi The President , but I want to say this, and I really don't want to be that guy but I'm gonna say it.

You guys call this Smash speculation? Speculation is based on taking the information and dissecting it, analyzing it, and coming to a conclusion. The people saying it's "just a boxart" are literally coming to that conclusion by ignoring ALL OF THE INFORMATION that seemingly stacks up.

That's not speculation. That's willful ignorance. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I personally want there to be more characters waiting for us. But the information we've been given seems to piece together so snugly that it just makes too much sense.

Again, everybody needs to take a deep breath and think about it.

Here's my issue. You're including Incineroar and Ken due to Vergeben, yes?
So where's the Squenix rep?

 

[ZephyrZ]

So... do most of us agree that the final Unique character is A Gen 7 Pokemon? and If so, Which One?
I'm still betting on Incineroar...

Some possible candidates are...

- Decidueye (Starter)
- Incineroar (Starter)
- Primarina (Starter)
- Tapu Koko (Promoted)
- Lycanroc (Promoted)
- Silvally (My Pipe Dream Promoted)
- Nihilego (UB, Promoted)
- Poipole (UB, Promoted)
Or maybe a curve ball like Buzzwole, Kommo-o, or Goscolipod.

There's a lot of possibility here.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ken probably got the Isabelle treatment; they may both have been planned as Echoes but got upgraded to semi-clones. Meaning Ken would get a full trailer and the fanfare of a unique newcomer.

Ken, Incineroar, and a crapload of gamemode news and stuff doesn't sound impossible-- it's not like Smash 4's final reveals were anything mindblowing (Shulk before 3DS and then Duck Hunt getting the last trailer uploaded).

Then that disproves the theory. The theory is that Ken is an echo of Ryu which means he would be right next to Ryu on the back a la Chrom, Lucina, Dark Pit, etc.

Brawl has 39 characters though so it's not unprecedented to have an odd number of fighters like that

Sure, but we also have leakers saying there's more echoes and more characters than just Inceneroar and Ken. This box art just disproves them all? No one expects there to be just two characters left. The only reason it is now a thing is because of the box art on the controller.

Besides, isn't the controller releasing WELL before Smash Ultimate? They're not going to be putting every character on the box if they're not all revealed.

Edit: never mind this is for the CE of the game isn't it? Still I don't think that we're just getting those two because of a box art.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Where are you getting Geno from?

If Vergeben is true then it's Ken and Incineroar. Vergeben has no idea who the Square character is, and is much less confident in it than the other two.

If Vergeben is true, he said 6 UNIQUE newcomers minimum after Ridley.

We would still need 3 unique and Ken would be one of them. Clashes with boxart no matter how you slice it. You can’t believe both.

 

[The DanMan051]

Didn't Vergeben already "leak" more than 2 characters? lol

Pokemon rep, Ken and SE rep?

He himself has said he isn't confident about the identity of the SE character; very possible that it's the first DLC character and they're in the early stages already.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Didn't Vergeben already "leak" more than 2 characters? lol

Pokemon rep, Ken and SE rep?

That might mean one of them are very likely fake.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Yep. Seems people have collectively chosen to forget this.

Well Vergs sources seem very split on that SE character. To the point that I don’t even know if that part is even true.

Could entirely also be part of the first wave of DLC this game will likely get.

Provided everything lines up with how people are going about this box theory.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm expecting the Zelda character representation to become a meme.

As it should, in the quest for Skull Kid's and Impa's addition (and possibly Tingle's).

 

[Will]

This is the thread's favorite movie.

For real guys, its certainly more likely than that chair tripe half of you believed.

People having reasonable skepticism are in denial?

Leave the insults for the playground, man.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

RIP Skull Kid, Geno, Shantae, Banjo & Kazooie, Rayman

 

[lightdrago]

Here's the thing. The game was out when Mewtwo was released. On 3DS, yet, but Smash 4 was out and being played by the time Mewtwo was revealed IIRC.
We don't have that this time.

I doubt it'd make much difference, but...it may.

I think it’s similar to the ESRB leak, where Mewtwo didn’t have a render but a question mark for him. Then later, he was announced as DLC. If this is true, then I think that’s what’s happening with the SE rep.

 

[Luigi The President]

Well Vergs sources seem very split on that SE character. To the point that I don’t even know if that part is even true.

Could entirely also be part of the first wave of DLC this game will likely get.

Provided everything lines up with how people are going about this box theory.

And they ALSO seem split on Incineroar.
Show me where his sources seem split? He seems confident there will be an SE rep of some kind.

 

[7982Brick]

There can't be 72 characters because in smash down the final number of fighters must be divisible by 4 and since mii fighters are not included in smash down that means there are 71 characters for smash down. 71 isn't dividable by 4 so this box theory is broken.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sooo, what do we expect to happen? There's a new Smash Direct he goes over the new mode, detours to show randomly Ken as an echo, and then announce Inceneroar with a trailer? That doesn't make much sense. Smash has always had a clear cut way of segmenting stuff and making it make sense. Throwing out one last echo and then Inceneroar doesn't match that.

Call me crazy but Sakurai always had a clear way of announcing things in this game and when he said, we can talk about this mode later, I think he meant to look forward to the next Smash Direct. If we get one of those I think it'll have more than just Ken and Inceneroar, even if it's just one more echo I think 2 is not all that's left. I think there is at least one more. Besides Inceneroar and Ken.

Ken and Incineroar might share a trailer together. I could easily see Ryu and Ken tagteaming against Icineroar and Pikachu Libre.

 

[Nethermoosen]

What is the Smashdown Theory?

It means that no matter how many players are playing the Smashdown mode, once everyone is unlocked, everyone will be able to pick
An even number of characters.

Must be divisible by 12(or 2, 3 and 4 because of multiplayer)

 

[NintenRob]

If there's only one character left, I'm going all in on Skull Kid, leaks aside, I really believe he has the most reason to believe he's playable

 

[Pyra]

All for Incineroar when my better rep Buzzwole is in the back unnoticed.

You're damn right, Buzzwole for Smash 5

 

[Starbound]

If Vergeben is true, he said 6 UNIQUE newcomers minimum after Ridley.

We would still need 3 unique and Ken would be one of them. Clashes with boxart no mater how you slice it. You can’t believe both.

Source for that?

My notes are saying he didn't use unique.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here's my issue. You're including Incineroar and Ken due to Vergeben, yes?
So where's the Squenix rep?

He never named it, and has been quite silent on that front. Personally, I believe that either the Square character is the first DLC character and will be announced at the end of the Direct, or that it was a false lead and he's trying to not mention it.

 

[Luigi The President]

Don't get me started on how this box theory implies we've got 2 characters left and...
...3 months.

I'm not sure that's how marketing works. I mean that genuinely, not snarkily. Why would we have 2 characters unrevealed when this game has almost 3 months to go of marketing, knowing very well the characters are the draw?

If there's only one character left, I'm going all in on Skull Kid, leaks aside, I really believe he has the most reason to believe he's playable

That's just silly. More reason then any Echo, or even Isaac? Can you explain as to why?

 

[Nazyrus]

This is all assuming both sides of the box will have that. The proportions of the arts could easily be resized and all of the roster fit one side of the box with however many real characters we are gonna end having. I will let you guys have fun with the two sides idea, but there is no proof that both sides are showing that, to me it just seems pointless to think of at the moment. Peace

 

[Starbound]

Here's my issue. You're including Incineroar and Ken due to Vergeben, yes?
So where's the Squenix rep?

Vergeben only has one source saying a Squeenix character is in the cards, which is why he hasn't said who the character is yet. His other sources are giving him nothing about the character.

So it's possible it's not actually coming to fruition,

 

[LetterO]

Are you guys actually expecting two more characters, acting like it's doomsday, and already being sad about the people you want not making it, because of a box art?
Vergeben's claim of a Square Enix rep already prove this wrong, which is funny considering the last 2 are apparently Incineroar and Ken, which is relying on Vergeben.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

And they ALSO seem split on Incineroar.
Show me where his sources seem split? He seems confident there will be an SE rep of some kind.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204/908712528
"I heard a name from someone recently as to who it might be, but it came from someone claiming to know it along with "confirming" other information that I had heard.

They might just be trying to fool me into believing what they are saying so that I say it to mess with me and try to harm my credibility so I'm not going to say who they claim it is until I get responses back from my sources that point in a direction proving whether or not there is anything to what they are saying."

 

[Nazyrus]

Are you guys actually expecting two more characters, acting like it's doomsday, and already being sad about the people you want not making it, because of a box art?
Vergeben's claim of a Square Enix rep already prove this wrong, which is funny considering the last 2 are apparently Incineroar and Ken, which is relying on Vergeben.

Not only that, but assuming Incineroar and ken would be the last reveals is super low hype material for the final pushing of the marketing of this game. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So this must be the Post Pac-Man reveal time here. Where it seemed that Chrom, Shulk, and Chorus Kids are the last newcomers and the whole roster has pretty much been revealed until the Stream.

 

[AzureFlame4]

I just can't buy that the most basic, easy to add echo Shadow wouldn't be added when he already has a model in Smash 4 and Sonic is the 3rd party that has been in the most games. Why give Ryu and Simon echoes but not Sonic when everything you need is already there? Not to mention the Knuckles AT and missing Shadow. Shadow being in has way more of a chance then the chance of this box theory being correct.

 

[zeldasmash]

What did I miss?