Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CosmicQuark]

The Moon being an assist has always been quite a shaky inference (pun intended?). If Skull Kid is in, and his moves/FS does not involve the Moon, the Moon could be an assist that compliments Skull Kid. On the other hand, Zelda has two MIA assist trophies at the moment, and maybe the Moon replaced Tingle (or in the worst timeline for fans, replaced Skull Kid). I would think if Skull Kid is a boss, though, as Rathalos is both, there's no reason Skull Kid can't be both, unless Rathalos is supposed to be special in that regard. I would assume, though, that if Skull Kid was an assist, that he'd be revealed as one early, like Ashley, given how much speculation there was.

At least the Moon is better (i.e. actual) evidence for Skull Kid's inclusion as a playable character than chairs.

 

[P.Kat]

Unpopular opinion: I'd rather F-Zero stay alive only through Mario Kart and Smash without a new game.

If Nintendo is gonna make a new racing game, I'd just rather Diddy Kong Racing or Wave Race.

But hopefully not Star Fox racing like the leak. I trust Nintendo usually, but this idea is more than enough to make me skeptical.

I would like to get a new Star Fox game. First was Adventures, then Assault, I didn't touch Command or Zero, the Battlefield-esque way they did Assault spoiled me.I would mind the racing game, if it meant getting Krystal, and Star fox as a whole back into relevancy especially in Smash, but I would be lying if I didn't say I want a new Fox game.

I'd want it to be like Star Fox Adventures, Assault, and Xenoblade chronicles X, and 2. I want multiple planets and the planetary exploration that Adventures, and X brings. The feeling of entering through the planet's atmosphere like the new Starlink game coming out. The ability to explore on foot, fight hand to hand, long range, or use the Landmaster, or Arwing along with other vehicles including a mech.

And a development system like Xenoblade chronicles 2, so I can help out the village, the villagers, and overall the planet in order to earn the trust and respect from the natives, as well as characters reaction towards what you do or say, and your decision. Play your cards right and Team Star Fox would be bigger than ever, or screw up and you'll be flying solo even Peppy will leave you. After beating the story with Fox, you can play as any of your crewmates.

The should make Krystal playable just so I can hear "Fox", "Krystal" every time they switch. And finally the game should get around Krystal's origin we got absolutely nothing except her coming from a destroyed planet courtesy of Andross probably, but what if Fox and his crew can make it in time to save it, what would it look like? I have a few ideas about what Krystal's planets and what the people would be like but I'm rambling enough as it is

Last note, if Xenoblade Chronicles X ever crossed over with Star Fox, I called it.

 

[DMTN]

Of course with Dracula changing forms it's possible we'll get boss battles with multiple phases, unlike in Brawl, but man there'd still be a lot of characters who'd struggle with the first phase, especially if Skull Kid is in any way mobile. Like, imagine chasing such a small character around as Dedede or Ganondorf, it'd just be a pitiful experience.

I still think it'd be very problematic and that it's unlikely he'll end up as a boss. Not impossible, but just unlikely.

Gotta agree. The last time we got a small boss (the Flying Man) it ruined an entire stage. I don't want more of that.
Then again, most of the stage bosses were awful, but the Flying Man was especially infuriating to me.

 

[SebasSancy]

Sakurai said that Rathalos was the FIRST boss and AT. Is safe to assume that there will be others, right? Maybe Skull Kid is in the same category if this tweet is right

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Found this this morning. Anyone know if this guy is credible? Will be super disappointed if it's true

https://twitter.com/LeakyPandy/status/1036231806129979392

Until given credibility I don't think this is worth anymore than a 4chan text leak.

However I want to make fun of a specific comment underneath that tweet "This is fake, why should tease a boss, And why whe have to many skull kid reference if he is a boss?"

Looks like someone wasn't a Ridley fan during Smash 4 speculation...

You don't fight Skull Kid in any real capacity, you fight MAJORA

I can't really see Skull Kid as a boss. All bosses in Smash are boss fights in their respective games, and they use attacks from those games. I could see Majora herself becoming a boss, but LeakyPanda is specifically mentioning Skull Kid.

See this is an issue I have with Skull Kid being a boss, the other confirmed bosses are actual bosses with abilities from their games. I could see Majora being the boss I guess, and sometimes Skull Kid and Major are interchangeable.

Honestly in my opinion either Skull Kid is a newcomer, or just as likely he has remained an AT. I don't think he'll be a boss.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The Moon being an assist has always been quite a shaky inference (pun intended?). If Skull Kid is in, and his moves/FS does not involve the Moon, the Moon could be an assist that compliments Skull Kid. On the other hand, Zelda has two MIA assist trophies at the moment, and maybe the Moon replaced Tingle (or in the worst timeline for fans, replaced Skull Kid). I would think if Skull Kid is a boss, though, as Rathalos is both, there's no reason Skull Kid can't be both, unless Rathalos is supposed to be special in that regard. I would assume, though, that if Skull Kid was an assist, that he'd be revealed as one early, like Ashley, given how much speculation there was.

At least the Moon is better (i.e. actual) evidence for Skull Kid's inclusion as a playable character than chairs.

I don't see the Moon's inclusion as a logical choice of evidence toward Skull Kid making it in... from a perspective of Logic, taking a character of note's signature attack away is a pretty telling stab against the character.

By your logic, than an ATs move can be used in dual capacities, we might as well say that an Assist Trophy can be playable as well. (And this is not me making a leap- we as a group still list AT's as disconfirmed, but theres no reason to think that is the case. It has been in the past, but this is a new game, and also the first new game where we have an item as a boss. Just because it has not been done gives no true reason as to why it could not).

So I just wander along my way, not thinking of Waluigi (a character I do not personally have any stakes in) as "out-of-the-game." I think it's the more sane conclusion.

 

[Darkraid]

Its possible that Skull kid is both playable and boss, along with Ridley, Rool and other villains.

There's a heroes vs villains theme going on this time around

 

[RileyXY1]

Its possible that Skull kid is both playable and boss, along with Ridley, Rool and other villains.

There's a heroes vs villains theme going on this time around

No there isn't. They're adding a lot of requested characters this time around.

 

[pupNapoleon]

There's a heroes vs villains theme going on this time around

As of right now, that's just speculation.
That's based solely on the rumor, and the fact that we have a couple new antagonists in the game.

Even the introduction for K Rool showed as many antagonists as villains. There's nothing to substantiate the hero/villain theory at this time.

 

[UserKev]

Skull Kid as a boss is an extremely illogical move and basically wouldn't make sense.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Skull Kid as a boss is an extremely illogical move and basically wouldn't make sense.

Defend this statement and it might stand up.

 

[Untouch]

This reminds me of the stupid arguments that K Rool was going to be a boss. Almost word for word even.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's a topic, supose they did a ballot on what games you want to see stages from, what ONE game would you put down for it?

A tough choice but I'd do the predictable and ask for poor ROB to be given a Gyromite/Real Life ROB stage already.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This reminds me of the stupid arguments that K Rool was going to be a boss. Almost word for word even.

What about the Moon being an Assist Trophy is comparable to K Rool's lack of inclusion in Smash 1-4?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Probably I'm in the minority of this but I kind of wish not every company crossover needs to happen through Smash Bros.

I kind of get how people rather have it all in best one place, but I feel like the other companies were as capable of their own big and beloved crossover fests back in last decades, and trying to make Nintendo take all the credit for those companies' history and legacy in gaming feels like belittling these companies and how much they influence brought on gaming on their own.

Besides, the demand for even more insane character requests would just increase, which'd be excessive strain and bear for Sakurai and his team.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

THIS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE REMINDS ME.

There is this dude on the Smash wiki who insists, like his life ****in' depends on it, that Richter has no gameplay differences from Simon, even though the blog post for Richter says that his moves have "subtle variations".

He's edited the wiki page for Richter AND for clones several times to say "they have no gameplay differences", and has even gone as far as undoing the edits of other people WHO UNDO HIS EDITS.

It drives me crazy, and I just needed to vent to SOMEONE, because this dude's an idiot.

I looked it up, he is not blocked and surprisingly he hasn't even been given a warning about it, usually the admins are stringent about **** like that. Well I'm an admin there (just not very active anymore), so if he ever pops up again I can be notified and I will take care of it if the other admins don't do anything about it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Here's a topic, supose they did a ballot on what games you want to see stages from, what ONE game would you put down for it?

There can only be one answer to this: Tetris

But others: Frogger, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, The Sims, Roller Coaster Tycoon, Candy Crush, Minecraft.

 

[ZenythSmash]

God, I hope not

Yeesh

Either go with his cute chibi design

Or his anime'd design

i'd take Sakurai's take on the middle design or on Pixel's illustrations on Cave Story characters
either way, as long its not from weird remakes or out-of-the-line spinoffs!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Here's a topic, supose they did a ballot on what games you want to see stages from, what ONE game would you put down for it?

A tough choice but I'd do the predictable and ask for poor ROB to be given a Gyromite/Real Life ROB stage already.

Aside from that, I would ask for Bowser to get his own damn stage already. Seriously even Ganondorf got one before him. In terms of specific games, I think it would be neat to have Rad Racer (since Squeenix is on board).

Also, Pac-Maze.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I don't see the Moon's inclusion as a logical choice of evidence toward Skull Kid making it in... from a perspective of Logic, taking a character of note's signature attack away is a pretty telling stab against the character.

By your logic of An Assist move and be used in both, we might as well say an Assist Trophy can be playable as well. (And this is not me making a leap- we as a group still list AT's as disconfirmed, but theres no reason to think that is the case. It has been in the past, but this is a new game, and also the first new game where we have an item as a boss. Just because it hasnt been done gives no true reason as to why it could not).

So I just wander along my way, not thinking of Waluigi (a character I do not personally have any stakes in) as "out-of-the-game." I think it's the more sane conclusion.

I agree, which is why I say it's shaky--it could be argued for both inclusion and exclusive (and my personal opinion, I think it leans more of exclusion, as I've said before). But an argument could be made for both--Majora's Wrath (sorry if I make a mistake, I'm not as familiar with Skull Kid) may be a more iconic FS for Skull Kid, and so to include the Moon in some way, the Moon was made into an assist, to compliment Skull Kid as a playable character. It's possible. And certainly better evidence than chairs.

I should also emphasize and clarify, it's not *my* logic. It's an argument that has been made, that I feel like has some merit, and that I include in order to be comprehensive.

 

[UserKev]

Defend this statement and it might stand up.

Why should Skull Kid be a boss, really?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Skull Kid as a boss is an extremely illogical move and basically wouldn't make sense.

I'm gonna need you to expand on that one mate

 

[IGuessItsOver]

On an unrelated note, what would you guys recommend buying, the Smash GC controller + a 3rd party adapter or a Pro Controller for SSBU? Because both the Limited edition (the one that comes with the GC controller and the official adapter) and the Special edition (steelbook case + Smash pro controller) are overpriced AF in my homeland Mexico (probably because there are no pre-orders available from official retailers yet) and for me it's way way way cheaper to get the game and either controller for separated.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

On an unrelated note, what would you guys recommend buying, the Smash GC controller + a 3rd party adapter or a Pro Controller for SSBU?

The former, playing with a GC controller just feels the most natural to me.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Of course with Dracula changing forms it's possible we'll get boss battles with multiple phases, unlike in Brawl, but man there'd still be a lot of characters who'd struggle with the first phase, especially if Skull Kid is in any way mobile. Like, imagine chasing such a small character around as Dedede or Ganondorf, it'd just be a pitiful experience.

I still think it'd be very problematic and that it's unlikely he'll end up as a boss. Not impossible, but just unlikely.

Well we already have bosses that hard counter characters; Dracula is 12 feet tall and can only be hurt by hitting his head, Little Mac is going to have a hell of a time damaging him.

Also Duon in Brawl was especially difficult for some characters with traits that were just designed to hard counter them; if anyone wants some fun they should try beating him with no damage while using Ike and no stickers.

 

[osby]

Here's a topic, supose they did a ballot on what games you want to see stages from, what ONE game would you put down for it?

A tough choice but I'd do the predictable and ask for poor ROB to be given a Gyromite/Real Life ROB stage already.

Sonic already got two but any stage inspired by Unleashed would make my day, especially Apathos.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Here's a topic, supose they did a ballot on what games you want to see stages from, what ONE game would you put down for it?

A tough choice but I'd do the predictable and ask for poor ROB to be given a Gyromite/Real Life ROB stage already.

Minecraft stage

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Well we already have bosses that hard counter characters; Dracula is 12 feet tall and can only be hurt by hitting his head, Little Mac is going to have a hell of a time damaging him.

Also Duon in Brawl was especially difficult for some characters with traits that were just designed to hard counter them; if anyone wants some fun they should try beating him with no damage while using Ike and no stickers.

I didn't realize that you can only damage Dracula by attacking his head. Just making sure, was that confirmed through Sakurai or was that a mechanic only present in Castlevania?

 

[PeridotGX]

Here's a topic, supose they did a ballot on what games you want to see stages from, what ONE game would you put down for it?

A tough choice but I'd do the predictable and ask for poor ROB to be given a Gyromite/Real Life ROB stage already.

one of the Pokemon side-games, either Mystery Dungeon or Conquest.

 

[DJ3DS]

As of right now, that's just speculation.
That's based solely on the rumor, and the fact that we have a couple new antagonists in the game.

Even the introduction for K Rool showed as many antagonists as villains. There's nothing to substantiate the hero/villain theory at this time.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, but the inherent suggestion I take it is that a "Heroes VS Villains" mode wouldn't work because some of the characters don't work appropriately as full villains in the game.

That's an argument I see a lot, but I don't believe it. They made Wario a villain in SSE, after all.

Certainly it's just speculation at this point, but I firmly believe that if Sakurai wanted a heroes vs villains theme, he'd have more than enough people he could count as villains without even considering who we have left to add, and which KOable Assist Trophies/bosses you could also count towards the total.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why should Skull Kid be a boss, really?

...this isn't a defending argument. It isnt a thesis. It's not even an opinion.
Shall this be taken to mean you cannot back up your claim?

 

[DMTN]

Going to make a ballsy guess and say that Twinrova is the Zelda boss.

- They wouldn't have to make a new stage, because Gerudo Valley already suffices.
- Koume and Kotake are already in the game. As we have seen, bosses can have multiple purposes and they would take less development time.
- Would go nicely with Ganondorf's new OoT design.
- As we have seen with Dracula, bosses have multiple phases. The first phase could be Koume and Kotake, while the second phase is Twinrova.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, but the inherent suggestion I take it is that a "Heroes VS Villains" mode wouldn't work because some of the characters don't work appropriately as full villains in the game.

That's an argument I see a lot, but I don't believe it. They made Wario a villain in SSE, after all.

Certainly it's just speculation at this point, but I firmly believe that if Sakurai wanted a heroes vs villains theme, he'd have more than enough people he could count as villains without even considering who we have left to add, and which KOable Assist Trophies/bosses you could also count towards the total.

No, my point was that we have no reason to believe in this being a theme, other than the leak, which is not proof.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Here's a topic, supose they did a ballot on what games you want to see stages from, what ONE game would you put down for it?

A tough choice but I'd do the predictable and ask for poor ROB to be given a Gyromite/Real Life ROB stage already.

gimme the battle stage from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Did I miss any leaks in the past 50 pages or so?

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, but the inherent suggestion I take it is that a "Heroes VS Villains" mode wouldn't work because some of the characters don't work appropriately as full villains in the game.

I personally think that some of the most highly-requested characters just happened to be villains. Nothing more to it.

Ultimate is meant to be a crowdpleasing title. Any other theme is pure coincidence, imo.

 

[Iridium]

This is guaranteed to trigger Roy mains.

Did I miss any leaks in the past 50 pages or so?


I personally think that some of the most highly-requested characters just happened to be villains. Nothing more to it.

Ultimate is meant to be a crowdpleasing title. Any other theme is pure coincidence, imo.

Lots of deconfirmations happened.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Going to make a ballsy guess and say that Twinrova is the Zelda boss.

- They wouldn't have to make a new stage, because Gerudo Valley already suffices.
- Koume and Kotake are already in the game. As we have seen, bosses can have multiple purposes and they would take less development time.
- Would go nicely with Ganondorf's new OoT design.
- As we have seen with Dracula, bosses have multiple phases. The first phase could be Koume and Kotake, while the second phase is Twinrova.

The only boss that I now find worthy is a Silver Lynel, because they are the hardest characters to defeat in BotW (memetically more difficult than the final Ganon of the Calamity)

 

[Untouch]

I could see pig ganon from LTTP/LoZ as a zelda boss, or one of the blight ganons.
The only problem would be ganondorf fighting a reincarnation of himself but they're different ganondorfs.

 

[KMDP]

That's a lot of boob and gun physics.

*inspired to draw something, but held back by a program crash*

...Watch this space. (not literally this post)

Imagine if only three characters had the ability to beat King Dodongo. The frustration.

Edit: But not for me!

Characters that would be able to beat King Dodongo.

Splat Bomb
Grenades


Bombs are a really rare Smash tool.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

That could be exactly what makes him interesting- so frequently bosses are enormous, why not have one or two that change up the size dynamic?

We also don't know if each boss can be accessed by every character.

It's just not fun to fight against small mobile bosses in any kind of platformer, it's pretty much a universal game design law for the genre. Metroid's bosses aren't all big just for the intimidation factor for example, they're first and foremost big because they need to be easy targets, you need to be able to consistently hit them as that's what feels satisfying. What happens with bosses that are both mobile and small is that it becomes a game of cat and mouse, you end up focusing entirely on just trying to land a hit, it completely undermines the actual encounter and the bosses' abilities, that all becomes secondary to actually trying to do the very basics of a boss encounter, not least to mention it's just plain frustrating chasing shadows half of the time. If the very core of your boss battle is frustrating, then it's a bad boss battle, simple as that.

If it's the case that he's a boss then Sakurai and co. are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but I wouldn't be optimistic about it. I'm pretty sure Sakurai understands the difficulties of small bosses though, seeing as he's the creator of Kirby where like 90% of the bosses are significantly bigger than Kirby, and the smallest they ever get is being level with him (pretty much limited to Meta Knight between all of Sakurai's games, where it thematically fits the duelist/rival theme of the boss).

Also, I'm almost willing to bet money on there being a boss rush mode again, Sakurai loves them, and when you have a wide variety of bosses in a game like this it's really just a huge waste not to have it.

Also, as a Ridley fan I find it very ironic that I have to argue for a character being too small to be a boss