Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Heatswave]

Personally I thought Super Metroid's controls were fantastic, and I first played the game in 2012. But I also grew up in the SNES era, like the boomer I am.

I can't think of any characters that are as fun to control as Samus in that game. You're practically a superhero by the endgame.

Perhaps you can give me some tips? Do you always press the sprint button? If I do that, I have problems to reach the fire button correctly, but perhaps it is just the anatomy of my big hands that's the problem.

Edit: Oh, didn't see your answer there, changing the buttons is a major game changer, thanks for the tip.

 

[osby]

Super's controls are certainly different from future installments', and I fully understand if you prefer the less floaty gameplay, but if you learn to master the controls they're actually the most free in the entire series. Like, just the fact that you can freely control your momentum allows you to do so much more, and the walljump isn't as limited as in Fusion and Returns where it doesn't allow you to jump up the same wall. Super's shinespark is also crazy awesome for allowing you to go in diagonal directions.

Playing Super in the same way as more modern titles is like playing Melee without L-Cancelling and Wavedashing, it feels pretty bad. Of course that's not to say that you'd like Super's gameplay over Fusion and forward's anyways, preferences are a thing as always, just wanted to point it out.

A lot of people like if they can enjoy a game without advenced tech.

 

[StormC]

Perhaps you can give me some tips? Do you always press the sprint button? If I do that, I have problems to reach the fire button correctly, but perhaps it is just the anatomy of my big hands that's the problem.

If I recall correctly, I had run assigned to A, jump on B, and shoot on Y. I would only dash if I knew I had an opening for it though.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Question to the room:

If we were to see Mortal Kombat represented in the game, do you think it is possible for an Echo fighter to get in as well?
My specific thought is that echoes actually solve a lot of problems for MK. It allows both Sub Zero and Scorpion to make it in, with the bulk of their movesets focusing on the fighting style of their home franchise. Of course, it would be more about grotesque than gore, but we could have moves like teleport and uppercut as smash and standard moves, with the four specials switching for each character.
My thoughts are that Sub Zero would have a move like Ice Climbers (wherein Scorpion has a move like Charizard), the ice shot would be replaced by the spear...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

A lot of people like if they can enjoy a game without advenced tech.

Of course, that's why I kept stressing that preferences are a thing. I just wanted to give the point of view as to why Super has my favorite controls in the series, it wasn't to say anyone was wrong.

 

[Zinith]

Question to the room:

If we were to see Mortal Kombat represented in the game, do you think it is possible for an Echo fighter to get in as well?
My specific thought is that echoes actually solve a lot of problems for MK. It allows both Sub Zero and Scorpion to make it in, with the bulk of their movesets focusing on the fighting style of their home franchise. Of course, it would be more about grotesque than gore, but we could have moves like teleport and uppercut as smash and standard moves, with the four specials switching for each character.
My thoughts are that Sub Zero would have a move like Ice Climbers (wherein Scorpion has a move like Charizard), the ice shot would be replaced by the spear...

Would they have extra inputs not available to the majority of the Smash cast, like Ryu?

 

[Heatswave]

You know you can adjust the controls to any button you want, right?

If I recall correctly, I had run assigned to A, jump on B, and shoot on Y. I would only dash if I knew I had an opening for it though.

Thanks, will definetly try it out later today.

 

[osby]

I've been playing a ton of XB2 and man I hope someone from there or XBCX gets into the base roster.

The blade designs are great.


I know people have been saying that XB2 missed the target for the project plan. But pretending to know what went on behind closed doors comes off as arrogant and presumptuous to me.

Elma would be great. Rex also would be cool, I like his outfit.

 

[Pakky]

Question to the room:

If we were to see Mortal Kombat represented in the game, do you think it is possible for an Echo fighter to get in as well?
My specific thought is that echoes actually solve a lot of problems for MK. It allows both Sub Zero and Scorpion to make it in, with the bulk of their movesets focusing on the fighting style of their home franchise. Of course, it would be more about grotesque than gore, but we could have moves like teleport and uppercut as smash and standard moves, with the four specials switching for each character.
My thoughts are that Sub Zero would have a move like Ice Climbers (wherein Scorpion has a move like Charizard), the ice shot would be replaced by the spear...

MK is possible but my question is, is it bigger than any other Fighting game franchise out of Japan?

I would say they're on equal footing, as Scorpion (Smoke is in 'Wreck it Ralph' but I mean they all were the same visually back in the day) is more media than say Mai or Terry.

However, then you have instances where Earthquake from Samurai Showdown is in the startup window for Z brush...

 

[StormC]

I wish I could love Prime as much as I loved Super. Prime is an immaculately designed game, but I just have trouble with the FPS genre. I don't find it "immersive" to play as a floating pair of hands with a gun, I find it jarring and disorienting. I would much rather be able to see myself in the environment I'm exploring and be immersed that way.

The FPS angle also takes away what I love most about Super Metroid, is the freedom and power you have in controlling Samus. You can run, jump, and shoot like you're the biggest badass in the galaxy. In a way, Super Metroid almost feels like the predecessor to crazy stylish action games like DMC where your main character is insanely powerful with tons of skills at their disposal. I really want a 3D Metroid with that element while keeping the exploration angle.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It was announced alongside prime 4 so I didn’t think it being on the 3ds would be a problem, especially when good 3ds games are still being released. I guess everyone was just too focused on the switch.



Yeah I like the counter mechanic a lot, I love when remakes add new things to make it more interesting

I only have it in my collection because my roommate required the purchase- I never even bought Detective Pikachu, despite strong desire to play it.

The 3DS versus Switch greatly affects what I've purchased since 2017.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I feel like returns doesn’t get nearly enough love. I get some of the reasons why people say it’s not the best, but it’s a straight upgrade from Metroid 2 in terms of both gameplay and graphics

The only thing I was left pretty disappointed with about Returns was the atmosphere, that was always Metroid II's strong point, and there was only a single moment where Returns really captured it (before the first Omega). Metroid II was very inspired by horror movies, and I'd have loved to have seen that vision come to fruition better than it did.

It was a huge leap as far as the 2D games' boss battles are concerned though, it felt much more tactical instead of just rapid firing Missiles on every boss' weak point like in previous 2D games. Aeion was also alright, and I liked that beam switching was actually a relevant thing, hopefully they expand on both going forward.

 

[pupNapoleon]

MK is possible but my question is, is it bigger than any other Fighting game franchise out of Japan?

I would say they're on equal footing, as Scorpion is more media than say Mai or Terry.

However, then you have instances where Earthquake from Samurai Showdown is in the startup window for Z brush...

The three biggest fighting games (by critical acclaim and sales, across the franchises) are Street Fighter, Tekken, and Mortal Kombat.
They each have different qualities in gameplay, and different merits to pop culture. Mortal Kombat, for example, has earned more money as a franchise when you take it as a media force (Wikipedia references all of this). Also, if you have not seen the recent Mortal Kombat Youtube series, I recommend it!

I'd love to get Ryu/Ken, Heihachi/Kazuya, and Scorpion/ Sub Zero.
And then Soul Calibre, Clayfighter, and Dead or Alive characters as ATs
(the ATs are just ones I would want, not necessarily ones earned).

 

[MSmariosonic]

Yeah

MK, TK and SF are the biggest fighting games out there.

It would only make sense they'd be the first fighting games represented in Smash.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yeah

MK, TK and SF are the biggest fighting games out there.

It would only make sense they'd be the first fighting games represented in Smash.

Don't forget the King of Fighters series

 

[pupNapoleon]

MK, TK and SF are the biggest fighting games out there.

It would only make sense they'd be the first fighting games represented in Smash.

I dont think MK is necessarily likely, but it is a series that tends to get ignored by speculation communities. A few points seem to be in its factor for this game compared to before (in that way any factor ever matters, just in speculation):
1- Bayonetta is adult, sexually. In most countries, sexuality is worse than violence.
2- Echo characters do make it more likely in my eyes, with the option to include the two iconic characters
3- Ed Boon (Netherealm Studios [Mortal Kombat]) loves the Switch

I think we could see these two... as DLC (where games are rated separately).

Would they have extra inputs not available to the majority of the Smash cast, like Ryu?

I don't think it would be wise to impose on the uniqueness of Ryu. Instead I would like to see them Smashify what makes Mortal Kombat what it was- Fatalities (friendships would work so well here!), a reference to the gore, and a lot of flair. C'mon, its worth it just to get a guy in the corner who will scream "Toastee!" That seems a given. Or a series of K's in the name (I really have always wanted the Kremling King and Kombaters to battle for the ownership of K-lead words, sounds perfect for an event!)

 

[MSmariosonic]

Don't forget the King of Fighters series

Don't get me wrong!

KoF is big but not on the scale of the ones I previously mentioned

 

[osby]

I dont think MK is necessarily likely, but it is a series that tends to get ignored by speculation communities. A few points seem to be in its factor for this game compared to before (in that way any factor ever matters, just in speculation):
1- Bayonetta is adult, sexually. In most countries, sexuality is worse than violence.
2- Echo characters do make it more likely in my eyes, with the option to include the two iconic characters
3- Ed Boon (Netherealm Studios [Mortal Kombat]) loves the Switch

I think we could see these two... as DLC (where games are rated separately).



I don't think it would be wise to impose on the uniqueness of Ryu. Instead I would like to see them Smashify what makes Mortal Kombat what it was- Fatalities (friendships would work so well here!), and a lot of flair. C'mon, its worth it just to get a guy in the corner who will scream "Toastee!" That seems a given.

You're saying it like Bayonetta doesn't have a huge amount of gratious violence.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Unless you go all the way back to Mortal Kombat 1,2,3 you couldn't have Scorpion and SubZero be clones.

Even then, are we going to have echoes that have completely different specials?

 

[pupNapoleon]

You're saying it like Bayonetta doesn't have a huge amount of gratious violence.

Haha, very true! Bayonetta really just didnt belong...

On the plus side, I now am pumped for Bayonetta 3 (as I consider it a Nintendo property now), and am also more relaxed about Third Party characters.

Unless you go all the way back to Mortal Kombat 1,2,3 you couldn't have Scorpion and SubZero be clones.

Even then, are we going to have echoes that have completely different specials?

I dont really see any rhyme or reason to what makes Echo characters unique (from a customer standpoint- I understand it from a development standpoint only). I think a lot of the specials could be recycled from other Nintendo characters, yes. So in short... I dont see an issue with different specials for the fighters. They would have the same block, same jump...

 

[Will]

Unless you go all the way back to Mortal Kombat 1,2,3 you couldn't have Scorpion and SubZero be clones.

Even then, are we going to have echoes that have completely different specials?

Aether and Dolphin Slash are definitely different.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Aether and Dolphin Slash are definitely different.

It'd be all the specials though. And they'd all be unique specials

No one has scorpion's spear or subzero's ice ball thing

 

[osby]

Haha, very true! Bayonetta really just didnt belong...

On the plus side, I now am pumped for Bayonetta 3 (as I consider it a Nintendo property now), and am also more relaxed about Third Party characters.

Weirdly enough, I'd say Bayonetta 'fits' better than Cloud or Ryu to Smash.

Her personality and attack are so over the top and pronounced that, seeing her with goofy Nintendo characters doesn't feel weird as it should be.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Earlier I stated that combo/button inputs make more sense, to me, to stay as a Ryu trait.
But I will say that I think it has one use for Mortal Kombat characters: the fatality.

Of course, Finishing moves are a staple of Mortal Kombat, and this would almost certainly be the Final Smash.
For a potential Scorpion/Subzero, I think each should get three final smashes- and that the ability to choose between the three is one of their special traits.
You have a Fatality, a Friendship, and a Brutality.
The button combo in some way dictates which is done.

If this is needed to be balanced, the moves could just be cosmetic differences (different cinematic sequences for each, with the same result).

Weirdly enough, I'd say Bayonetta 'fits' better than Cloud or Ryu to Smash.

Her personality and attack are so over the top and pronounced that, seeing her with goofy Nintendo characters doesn't feel weird as it should be.

I just look at her and think, "It should have been Lara Croft! Especially the nonstop bullets."
(sidenote: I own the bayonetta dual pack... but why can I not seem to stick with playing? I think I need to put it on the TV and not handheld mode).

It'd be all the specials though. And they'd all be unique specials

I edited my post above-

I dont think the specials would be that unique. For example, Scorpion's spear, while the animation is different, would function the same as Link's boomerang.
And it would be really funny to see Ice Climbers and Sub Zero share a move.

Mortal Kombat, even if full of gore, is full of camp.

 

[Will]

No one has scorpion's spear or subzero's ice ball thing

Who said it had to be an iceball?

 

[osby]

Earlier I stated that combo/button inputs make more sense, to me, to stay as a Ryu trait.
But I will say that I think it has one use for Mortal Kombat characters: the fatality.

Of course, Finishing moves are a staple of Mortal Kombat, and this would almost certainly be the Final Smash.
For a potential Scorpion/Subzero, I think each should get three final smashes- and that the ability to choose between the three is one of their special traits.
You have a Fatality, a Friendship, and a Brutality.
The button combo in some way dictates which is done.

If this is needed to be balanced, the moves could just be cosmetic differences (different cinematic sequences for each, with the same result).



I just look at her and think, "It should have been Lara Croft! Especially the nonstop bullets."
(sidenote: I own the bayonetta dual pack... but why can I not seem to stick with playing? I think I need to put it on the TV and not handheld mode).


I edited my post above-

I dont think the specials would be that unique. For example, Scorpion's spear, while the animation is different, would function the same as Link's boomerang.
And it would be really funny to see Ice Climbers and Sub Zero share a move.

Mortal Kombat, even if full of gore, is full of camp.

I really want Bayonetta to team up with Lara Croft. Now, that's what I call Ultimate.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Who said it had to be an iceball?

But he doesn't do that. He shoots an iceball

 

[pupNapoleon]

Another point in the favor of Mortal Kombat:
Nintendo is actively killing off their characters in the trailers. This was easily the biggest mark against a Kombatant in the past. While I expect no decapitations, Scorpion killing Mario is evidently not a big deal.

Mortal Kombat is also quite big on crossovers. They have already gone up against Superman, the Ninja Turtles, and even Predator! If they can face Predator, they can surely face Ridley!

I really want Bayonetta to team up with Lara Croft. Now, that's what I call Ultimate.

That's a lot of boob and gun physics.

 

[DJ3DS]

Question to the room:

If we were to see Mortal Kombat represented in the game, do you think it is possible for an Echo fighter to get in as well?
My specific thought is that echoes actually solve a lot of problems for MK. It allows both Sub Zero and Scorpion to make it in, with the bulk of their movesets focusing on the fighting style of their home franchise. Of course, it would be more about grotesque than gore, but we could have moves like teleport and uppercut as smash and standard moves, with the four specials switching for each character.
My thoughts are that Sub Zero would have a move like Ice Climbers (wherein Scorpion has a move like Charizard), the ice shot would be replaced by the spear...

These two as echoes doesn't really make that much sense. To represent each character appropriately you've effectively got a different character in each hands.

It's not just the specials, either - they've both got pretty distinct normals that I think blending them together dilutes either character.

 

[Pakky]

I really want Bayonetta to team up with Lara Croft. Now, that's what I call Ultimate.

I do too...
Man.. Sony friggin sucks lol.

She wasn't in their Smash clone either.

I've really grown to lothe them this gen.


PS3 was also a mess, and it screws with your head when you realize they don't really have 'icons' anymore.

Just Kratos who need a huge, fat PROOF of concept in order to come back.

...and Sly I guess.

 

[Arcadenik]

Mortal Kombat is probably my current second most-wanted third-party franchise (Castlevania was #1 and Banjo-Kazooie was #2 but now #1).

Scorpion and Sub-Zero (Echo Fighter) and Raiden (Assist Trophy) would be perfect!

Mortal Kombat characters should be based on their original trilogy designs. They had same normal moves but different special moves.

Sub-Zero could even have an alternate costume based on Mortal Kombat 3 Sub-Zero.

Goro could be an Adventure Mode boss. The Mortal Kombat stage could be The Pit.

 

[Pakky]

Lowkey MK music would be amazing.

Man, I care more about music than stages, lol.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

I've been playing a ton of XB2 and man I hope someone from there or XBCX gets into the base roster.

The blade designs are great.


I know people have been saying that XB2 missed the target for the project plan. But pretending to know what went on behind closed doors comes off as arrogant and presumptuous to me.

There is still a very small chance Rex & Pyra are at base, because Xenoblade 2 was in development since 2014. However this will come with some sacrifices and they will be the last character finished in the game then. If they are at base this is how it would have happend:

1. Sakurai knew about the game in 2015 and reserved a slot for the Xenoblade rep, like he did with Greninja for Smash 4(however is Xenoblade on the same level as Pokemon is also a question you should take into consideration)

2. The bulk of their moveset had to be finished last year with the insight of Monolith. It is true that Sakurai did play and praise XB2 last year, but if this is used for research purpose it should only affect minor details of Rex & Pyra and not Sakurai creating them from scratch this year, because the game most likely will go gold very soon.

3. Xenoblade 2 won't get any other content in this situation, because if Dracula's castle took a year to develop, then a XB2 stage I feel is very unlikely, because getting Rex & Pyra in at base is already a miracle of its own.

TL.DR it is still possible, but Rex & Pyra have to go through alot of loopholes with sacrifices then, and honestly I feel Sakurai rather wants them for DLC, so that he can do more justice to XB2 overall

 

[pupNapoleon]

These two as echoes doesn't really make that much sense. To represent each character appropriately you've effectively got a different character in each hands.

It's not just the specials, either - they've both got pretty distinct normals that I think blending them together dilutes either character.

Id love to hear of your thoughts on this.
I'm of course of the mind that the moveset should primarily focus on the game play mechanics of Mortal Kombat (high and low punches and kicks, sweeping trips, uppercuts), and that the specials are all that would differentiate the characters, just like in the original games.

The biggest difficulty for me would be... what color do you make the alts?
Maybe with Sub Zero you could have half of them be the unmasked brother, or even the robotic Sub Zero.
But palette swaps would be difficult without accessories.

In the spirit of Mortal Combat, which is as much about comedy as gore, perhaps we could see Scorpion take on Sonya's hair, or some other types of fun accessories.

Mortal Kombat is probably my current second most-wanted third-party franchise (Castlevania was #1 and Banjo-Kazooie was #2 but now #1).

Scorpion and Sub-Zero (Echo Fighter) and Raiden (Assist Trophy) would be perfect!

Mortal Kombat characters should be based on their original trilogy designs. They had same normal moves but different special moves.

Sub-Zero could even have an alternate costume based on Mortal Kombat 3 Sub-Zero.

Goro could be an Adventure Mode boss. The Mortal Kombat stage could be The Pit.

Can i just see your dream roster? Constantly, my fellow 90s child, we seem to be on the same page... but I would not think to be.

 

[Irarius]

i noticed in almost every roster so far that everybody forgets zack fair fom final fantasy as a cloud echo, <.< i mean is it just me or doesnt anybody like him...
and no he is not a weard choice he is quite literally clouds echo in the games

 

[PLATINUM7]

I do too...
Man.. Sony friggin sucks lol.

She wasn't in their Smash clone either.

I've really grown to lothe them this gen.


PS3 was also a mess, and it screws with your head when you realize they don't really have 'icons' anymore.

Just Kratos who need a huge, fat PROOF of concept in order to come back.

...and Sly I guess.

Ratchet and Clank.

The PS4 game was the best selling title or something like that. Ratchet and Clank is also way more prolific than Sly.

Sony's dev teams are much more likely to retire series/characters and move on. Jak and Daxter, Naughty Dog's never making another one. Uncharted, likely to continue but without Nathan Drake. InFamous moved on to a new character and now Sucker Punch has moved on from InFamous. Even the Japanese studios don't seem to be going back to IPs like Ape Escape or PaRappa. Best you can get are remasters.

Then stuff like God of War, the PS4 game was almost not greenlit because the previous game didn't do so well. For as good as Sony's games may do, they don't really foster an environment where gaming icons can thrive anymore.

 

[Zinith]

i noticed in almost every roster so far that everybody forgets zack fair fom final fantasy as a cloud echo, <.< i mean is it just me or doesnt anybody like him...
and no he is not a weard choice he is quite literally clouds echo in the games

Spoiler

Technically it's the other way around

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Question to the room:

If we were to see Mortal Kombat represented in the game, do you think it is possible for an Echo fighter to get in as well?
My specific thought is that echoes actually solve a lot of problems for MK. It allows both Sub Zero and Scorpion to make it in, with the bulk of their movesets focusing on the fighting style of their home franchise. Of course, it would be more about grotesque than gore, but we could have moves like teleport and uppercut as smash and standard moves, with the four specials switching for each character.
My thoughts are that Sub Zero would have a move like Ice Climbers (wherein Scorpion has a move like Charizard), the ice shot would be replaced by the spear...

If MK were to get a rep in Smash, it would probably get the Cloud treatment, with Scorpion of course being the rep and instead of having an echo fighter, he would get one of the many alt costumes he's had across all of his games.

 

[osby]

I do too...
Man.. Sony friggin sucks lol.

She wasn't in their Smash clone either.

I've really grown to lothe them this gen.


PS3 was also a mess, and it screws with your head when you realize they don't really have 'icons' anymore.

Just Kratos who need a huge, fat PROOF of concept in order to come back.

...and Sly I guess.

I played a few of my favourite games in PS3, weirdly enough.

PSASBR was a huge missed opportunity. Rival system was cool and something Smash can't realistically do.

 

[BlueMagician]

I do too...
Man.. Sony friggin sucks lol.

She wasn't in their Smash clone either.

That's not exactly the fault of Sony. The Tomb Raider team were busy rebooting Lara at the time and they refused Sony's request to put her in PSASBR because of it. There were stupid things Sony did with that game, to be sure, but that one's not their fault.