Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

A serious question Zenith what is the difference between Boshi amd Yoshi besides the sunglasses

I'm sorry for the late response (I had to leave work) and I'm also kinda liquored up, but I'll try my best.

Picture Yoshi's personality in your head. Boshi's is the 180 DEGREE OPPOSITE of that. In Super Mario RPG, Boshi was an arrogant Blue Yoshi with a superiority complex who thought he was the best at everything. He was rude and inconsiderate and pretty much the Wario equivalent of Yoshi. I can only imagine what his personality would be like after 22 years of absence when Yoshi himself changed over that time...

 

[Will]

I'm sorry for the late response (I had to leave work) and I'm also kinda liquored up, but I'll try my best.

Jesus man how many days a week do you chug that ****? Do you want your liver to implode?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is what bugged me about the Dark Pit hate back in the Smash 4 days. Dark Pit, though LITERALLY a clone, was canonically a separate person from Pit, and Dr. Mario is just Mario wearing different clothes, not even clothes that legit give him brand new abilities like the Tanuki Suit would. Yet Dr. Mario is the one who becomes a half-clone while Dark Pit has little to no differences to Pit since Dr. Mario was in Melee, so THEY'RE the ones that fans wanted to rip apart.

Disclaimer: though Dr. Mario is my least favorite inclusion in Smash, I no longer have a problem with him anymore since EVERYONE IS HERE and now Dark Pit style clones have a neat branding to them that allows us all to get giddy about the possibilities of fan favorites making it in. But yowzers did people hate on Dark Pit and were mostly fine with Dr. Mario, while seeing ZERO irony in that back in the Smash 4 days.

Honestly, all 3 got ripped apart bad. Lucina got the least of it mostly cause she had a tangible difference from Marth. Dr. Mario got too much for being unique, while Dark Pit got too much for not being unique enough. How ironic.

Though yeah, it's not surprising all the clones from previous games are somewhat unique. The term Echo Fighter does arguably help a little.

 

[Zinith]

Jesus man how many days a week do you chug that ****? Do you want your liver to implode?

Don't worry about me. If anything happens, it'll be my responsibility...

 

[Nethermoosen]

Don't worry about me. If anything happens, it'll be my responsibility...

No. After you lose consciousness, you can’t really be held responsible. It’ll be up to....whoever happens to be around.

 

[staindgrey]

FTFY because that applies to any Echo. Except maybe Richter I guess since it's really his moveset.

Not necessarily incorrect (though Dark Samus wasn't in the first Metroid Prime). But some echoes are echoes because there's not a ton more you can do with them. I think Fire Emblem sword styles were exhausted by the time Chrom rolled in, and Dark Samus is literally a canonical echo of Samus that inherits her suit's skills. And Dark Pit is an even more extreme version of that.

Daisy is more of an extreme in the other direction, in that she's taking on an echo character status despite Peach's two major unique moves-- floating and turnips-- being things Daisy has never been shown to do. Ever. Meanwhile Daisy has a plentiful catalog of relevant games from which to draw a moveset, including Mario Party/Kart/Sluggers/Strikers/& Sonic at the Olympics/Sports Mix/Hoops 3 on 3/Tennis/Golf/etc., none of which have really been represented thus far outside of Peach's Fsmash. Yes, she's a Mario princess, but that's not what fans of hers know her from. A moveset that isn't derived from the games she prominently stars in isn't really indicative of her at all.

Out of all the echoes (if we don't count Ganondorf's original Falcon clone), I'd argue Daisy is the worst represented by the moveset she's inherited.

 

[Will]

Don't worry about me. If anything happens, it'll be my responsibility...

I guess.

Spoiler

I hate alcohol by the way. I never really had a good experience growing up around it. People drinking it is fine because people do what they do, but drinking it a little too often gives me Vietnam flashbacks.

 

[Idon]

Dark Samus is literally a canonical echo of Samus that inherits her suit's skills.

Before I go on a long Metroid Prime rant, I'm just gonna stop myself and say...
Come on, that's punching Ganondorf level flimsy.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I guess.

Spoiler

I hate alcohol by the way. I never really had a good experience growing up around it. People drinking it is fine because people do what they do, but drinking it a little too often gives me Vietnam flashbacks.

That’s unfortunate. I have an oddly blissful memory of alcohol. My dad is a fun and hilarious drunk. Sorry to hear it’s brought up bad memories.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

The irony of this all is the actual name assigned to the edits is none other than Memoryman (granted not with a formal SSBWiki account but still)

Memoryman... sounds like a very lame Megaman boss... his only power is having a good memory.

 

[Hinata]

Hoo boy, glad I got that out of my system. Needed to vent to someone, or I was gonna go crazy.

Dark Samus is literally a canonical echo of Samus that inherits her suit's skills.

Even as someone who didn't play Prime 2 or 3, I'm pretty sure that's not 100% accurate.

 

[Enchess]

I'm also kinda liquored up, but I'll try my best.

Glad I'm not the only one getting liquored up on a Saturday night. Still feel weird when I think about how many people on here can't drink legally.. I shouldnt feel old at this age haha

 

[Nethermoosen]

Memoryman... sounds like a very lame Megaman boss... his only power is having a good memory.

He just asked questions like: “What was the 3rd enemy you encountered in the stage before the last?”

 

[Zinith]

I guess.

Spoiler

I hate alcohol by the way. I never really had a good experience growing up around it. People drinking it is fine because people do what they do, but drinking it a little too often gives me Vietnam flashbacks.

I don't drink as much as you think I do...

 

[Will]

I don't drink as much as you think I do...

Maybe. Maybe not. If you don't have a limit, things get nasty.

He just asked questions like: “What was the 3rd enemy you encountered in the stage before the last?”

Memoryman just sounds like he'd be a boss rush of all the previous robots you fought cause they're in your memory or something.

 

[Blargg888]

Now that they've branded the term "echo fighters", suddenly everyone's on board with the idea.

Okay, for real though, how many times are people going to say this up until release?

I know we repeat topics a lot here, but this one just feels artificial at this point.

Memoryman... sounds like a very lame Megaman boss... his only power is having a good memory.

He must be from a Telltale game.

 

[staindgrey]

Even as someone who didn't play Prime 2 or 3, I'm pretty sure that's not 100% accurate.

I didn't say she was a 1:1 clone of Samus. But her moves are derived from Samus's suit, yes. She uses missiles, super missiles, charge beams, boost ball, bombs, and the plasma beam, along with a few specific moves tailored to her because she's a boss, like flying off the ground and charging at you in a corrupted form of a screw attack or splitting into multiple 'echoes' of herself, stuff like that. While those could be incorporated into her moveset to make her more unique, she still does use Samus's moves, along with looking like Samus in structure. Even if you made her an entirely 100% unique character, she'd still share a lot of similarities by design.

Okay, for real though, how many times are people going to say this up until release?

I know we repeat topics a lot here, but this one just feels artificial at this point.

Is it any less true now?

The post I was replying to was commenting on negative backlash to Dark Pit in Smash 4. Seems relevant.

 

[Fell God]

Memoryman is a cool guy

 

[NintenRob]

Since everyone does it, series I've played, I'll probably go a bit more in depth though

-I've played a heck of a lot of Mario games, including spin-offs and sister series. Completed too, well I'm not sure you complete the Dr. Mario game on GBA but whatever

- I've at least played a good chunk of every Zelda game, completed most of them too. SKULL KID FOR SMASH

- Completed the prime trilogy and 2D quadrilogy (remakes for first two)

- Love Kirby games, played and completed many of them. BANDANA DEE FOR SMASH

- I completely Star Fox 64 3D and dabbled in Adventure and Zero

- Played a lot Pokemon, love a lot of Pokemon. I've even used a good amount of them on my adventure. On day Jigglypuff, one day

- played and completed Earthbound

- the sequel though, never had the chance

- I have the original on Virtual Console, played it. Not much else to say

- played it a little bit on friends hacked NES classic

- nope. Not even the gallery sadly

ultchrom:-played and love Awakening

- completed story mode in Fire Emblem Warriors if you count it

-sadly no, And I'm not counting when I very briefly had a weird Roy copy in Awakening

- love uprising, a lot

- Mario Kart DS if you count it, otherwise I did dabble with Gyromite and StackUp on the friends hacked NES classic, no R.O.B. attached obviously

- played Pikmin 2, 3 and HEY. Never beat them though, would like to

- I've never played a Metal Gear game, ever.

- I've played the occasional Sonic game here and there, completed all star racing

- New Leaf a played a decent amount of

completed Mega Man 1 + 2

Yeah I played a fair bit Wii Fit at one point, especially the jogging mini game.

-Dabbled with Punch-out NES on virtual console

- Wii Sports I've played a bit of

- who hasn't played some form of the original Pac-Man?

-Played, completed and loved the original Xenoblade.

- Can't say I have, might have booted it up on the hacked NES classic, but obviously wouldn't be able to actually play it

- Don't think so, maybe when I was really young but I don't have any memories

- Hahaha no, I've only owned Nintendo systems

- GREAT GAMES, even got them again on Switch

-just Splatoon 2, I didn't have internet for the first one

- Never played Castlevania in my life, would like to though

Hope I didn't miss anyone

 

[Nethermoosen]

I don't drink as much as you think I do...

It’s because of the tax fraud, isn’t it?

 

[Hinata]

I didn't say she was a 1:1 clone of Samus. But her moves are derived from Samus's suit, yes. She uses missiles, super missiles, charge beams, boost ball, bombs, and the plasma beam, along with a few specific moves tailored to her because she's a boss, like flying off the ground and charging at you in a corrupted form of a screw attack or splitting into multiple 'echoes' of herself, stuff like that. While those could be incorporated into her moveset to make her more unique, she still does use Samus's moves, along with looking like Samus in structure. Even if you made her an entirely 100% unique character, she'd still share a lot of similarities by design.

Yeah, that makes more sense. I thought you were sayin' she's just Samus 2.0 even in Prime and I was confused.

 

[Enchess]

Maybe. Maybe not. If you don't have a limit, things get nasty.


Memoryman just sounds like he'd be a boss rush of all the previous robots you fought cause they're in your memory or something.

Spoiler: Response on drinking

I'm still super unsure of your age. I'm assuming you're underage, so no offense if I'm guessing age wrong.

I used to feel similarly to you on alcohol, but then when I turned 21 and tried drinking out I realized you can pretty much avoid any nastinest if you're aware of where your headspace is and only drink when things are alright up there. You can drink till you black out without ever getting nasty (although drinking till you black out is dangerous, so not encouraging that)

So I know it's too late for a playable character, but should we expect an Assist Trophy of Dragalia Lost? I feel like that's realistic timeframe-wise

 

[Will]

Spoiler: Response on drinking

I'm still super unsure of your age. I'm assuming you're underage, so no offense if I'm guessing age wrong.

I used to feel similarly to you on alcohol, but then when I turned 21 and tried drinking out I realized you can pretty much avoid any nastinest if you're aware of where your headspace is and only drink when things are alright up there. You can drink till you black out without ever getting nasty (although drinking till you black out is dangerous, so not encouraging that

So I know it's too late for a playable character, but should we expect an Assist Trophy of Dragalia Lost? I feel like that's realistic timeframe-wise

Spoiler

Not when I meant by nasty. Alcoholics and parenting don't make a good team.

Yeah, that makes more sense. I thought you were sayin' she's just Samus 2.0 even in Prime and I was confused.

The hell does that make SA-X?

 

[Fell God]

ultchrom:-played and love Awakening

Warms my heart

 

[Hinata]

The hell does that make SA-X?

Samus 1.5, duh.

 

[staindgrey]

The hell does that make SA-X?

The superior Dark Samus.

That **** scared me as a kid.

 

[Will]

The superior Dark Samus.

That **** scared me as a kid.

Did the enemies scare you or did the high-pitched screeches of demons scare you?

Because Ridley just doesn't like anyone's ability to hear apparently.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Spoiler

I used to feel similarly to you on alcohol, but then when I turned 21 and tried drinking out I realized you can pretty much avoid any nastinest if you're aware of where your headspace is and only drink when things are alright up there. You can drink till you black out without ever getting nasty (although drinking till you black out is dangerous, so not encouraging that)

I actually have a friend who can’t drink past a certain point without becoming belligerent, rude and aggressive. I did a little research and asked doctors from time to time and found that the way alcohol interacts with testosterone can either accelerate the body’s use of testosterone, often increasing aggression and depleting it at the same time, or it can cause a person to become more carefree, and simply deplete testosterone. Depends on the person.

 

[Enchess]

Spoiler

Not when I meant by nasty. Alcoholics and parenting don't make a good team.

Spoiler

My sister drinks a lot and she's a fantastic parent. She just limits her drinking to while her kid is with a babysitter or her husband or after he's gone to bed. He's probably never even seen her drunk. Alcohol is fine if you are responsible with it.

The hell does that make SA-X?

Well, going by Alien analogy, would SA-X be the Newborn?

Gross

 

[Will]

Spoiler

My sister drinks a lot and she's a fantastic parent. She just limits her drinking to while her kid is with a babysitter or her husband or after he's gone to bed. He's probably never even seen her drunk. Alcohol is fine if you are responsible with it.

Well, going by Alien analogy, would SA-X be the Newborn?
View attachment 161313
Gross

Spoiler

Good for your sister. Surely, being a drunkard is the best thing to do to your family. Yep. Uh-huh. Now everything that it's been associated with in my life is now an outlier.

Didn't SA-X exist for a little bit before you play as blue-suit Samus and not necessarily make her (it?) a newborn?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Spoiler

Good for your sister. Surely, being a drunkard is the best thing to do to your family. Yep. Uh-huh. Now everything that it's been associated with in my life is now an outlier.

Didn't SA-X exist for a little bit before you play as blue-suit Samus and not necessarily make her (it?) a newborn?

I'm pretty sure SA-X was formed from Samus' power suit after it was surgically removed from Samus

The organic components from it were infected by the X Virus

 

[NintenRob]

Warms my heart

It's one of the reasons I give Chrom a bit of a free pass in this game.

That and the mockery he received last game and the fact he's just an echo fighter

 

[Will]

I'm pretty sure SA-X was formed from Samus' power suit after it was surgically removed from Samus

The organic components from it were infected by the X Virus

Really?
But how did it get to Samus' location, did they just throw it there because they could?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Really?
But how did it get to Samus' location, did they just throw it there because they could?

Wasn't it at that base that Samus recovered from the X Virus attack? Samus recovered there then left but returned after she got a distress call. The X Virus overran the base and killed all the organic life on it

Her suit was left on the base

She was collecting specimen samples for them before she was infected

 

[Enchess]

Spoiler

Good for your sister. Surely, being a drunkard is the best thing to do to your family. Yep. Uh-huh. Now everything that it's been associated with in my life is now an outlier.

Didn't SA-X exist for a little bit before you play as blue-suit Samus and not necessarily make her (it?) a newborn?

Ok, this is way way longer than I set-out to write, so I'll spoiler it, but Newborn/SA-X elaboration:

Spoiler: Way too long post about Resurrection=Fusion

It's where the comparison breaks down. Idk if you know Alien, but people say Metroid 1-4 were made to mirror Alien 1-4 (to my knowledge Nintendo hasn't said this, it's just one of those things passed around in gaming community).

Alien: Resurrection (Alien 4) has Ripley be brought back after death in Alien 3, only now she's infused with Xenomorph DNA, giving her some alien perks while also working in the motherhood theme of the series in how that interacts with the Newborn.

Metroid: Fusion (Metroid 4) has Samus brought back after near death at the beginning of Fusion, only now she's infused with Metroid DNA, giving her some alien perks. Doesn't really work in the motherhood theme, although Metroid certainly does have one.

The Newborn and SA-X are the threats of their respective stories, so if we were to push this comparison as far as possible that's who SA-X would be "based on", but it doesn't work as cleanly as the rest as you pointed out.

EDIT: I forgot some key details of how SA-X came to be that others pointed out. The comparison actually does work incredibly well. I'm gonna leave it here though, because I don't think I should make this any longer.

 

[Will]

Wasn't it at that base that Samus recovered from the X Virus attack? Samus recovered there then left but returned after she got a distress call. The X Virus overran the base and killed all the organic life on it

Her suit was left on the base

She was collecting specimen samples for them before she was infected

Dang, I need to play Fusion again.
Or not, I don't know if I wanna go through those ear-piercing screeches enemies do again.

 

[Zinith]

The GBA Metroid games I like more than the Prime games...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I actually never played the prime series but I've played all the original "Metroidvania" games.

There was a period of time when Super Metroid was my favorite game.

It's one of the Super Nintendo games I own physically

 

[Enchess]

The GBA Metroid games I like more than the Prime games...

Yeah, I love the Prime games, but for me it's:
Perfect : Super>Prime
Amazing : Zero Mission
Great : Samus Returns>Fusion>Return of Samus>Echoes
Good : Corruption>Other M
Meh : Metroid>Hunters
N/A : Pinball, Federation Force,Prime 4

 

[Zinith]

Yeah, I love the Prime games, but for me it's:
Perfect : Super>Prime
Amazing : Zero Mission
Great : Samus Returns>Fusion>Return of Samus>Echoes
Good : Corruption
Meh : Hunter
N/A : Pinball, Federation Force

For me, it's...

Zero Mission > Fusion > Prime 1 > Super > Prime 3 > Other M > Metroid 1 > Samus Returns > Prime 2 > Metroid II

Didn't play Pinball, Hunters and Federation Force