Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hinata]

Meta-Ridley is an echo who only has animation changes?

THIS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE REMINDS ME.

There is this dude on the Smash wiki who insists, like his life ****in' depends on it, that Richter has no gameplay differences from Simon, even though the blog post for Richter says that his moves have "subtle variations".

He's edited the wiki page for Richter AND for clones several times to say "they have no gameplay differences", and has even gone as far as undoing the edits of other people WHO UNDO HIS EDITS.

It drives me crazy, and I just needed to vent to SOMEONE, because this dude's an idiot.

 

[TheKnight]

THIS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE REMINDS ME.

There is this dude on the Smash wiki who insists, like his life ****in' depends on it, that Richter has no gameplay differences from Simon, even though the blog post for Richter says that his moves have "subtle variations".

He's edited the wiki page for Richter AND for clones several times to say "they have no gameplay differences", and has even gone as far as undoing the edits of other people WHO UNDO HIS EDITS.

It drives me crazy, and I just needed to vent to SOMEONE, because this dude's an idiot.

I'm convinced it's just an unlockable alt or something. That or an alt to be included in the full game.

 

[Nethermoosen]

THIS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE REMINDS ME.

There is this dude on the Smash wiki who insists, like his life ****in' depends on it, that Richter has no gameplay differences from Simon, even though the blog post for Richter says that his moves have "subtle variations".

He's edited the wiki page for Richter AND for clones several times to say "they have no gameplay differences", and has even gone as far as undoing the edits of other people WHO UNDO HIS EDITS.

It drives me crazy, and I just needed to vent to SOMEONE, because this dude's an idiot.

They did show Simon tilting his forward air. Richter has been shown only using it in a straight horizontal line. We can assume that this is one such change, but that’s about the only difference I know of and it isn’t even confirmed. Sakurai and his conservative ways.

 

[BrytonJ]

Oh I guess my most wanted pick in a utopian world is...

Fire away!

Not gonna happen for one simple reason: Kapp'n would have priority to fill the bus driver slot

 

[Idon]

THIS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE REMINDS ME.

There is this dude on the Smash wiki who insists, like his life ****in' depends on it, that Richter has no gameplay differences from Simon, even though the blog post for Richter says that his moves have "subtle variations".

He's edited the wiki page for Richter AND for clones several times to say "they have no gameplay differences", and has even gone as far as undoing the edits of other people WHO UNDO HIS EDITS.

It drives me crazy, and I just needed to vent to SOMEONE, because this dude's an idiot.

I think a compromise that might fix this guy is saying
"He has no CURRENTLY KNOWN gameplay differences."

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I'm kinda hoping has enough differences so people don't start hating on her -style

 

[Hinata]

I think a compromise that might fix this guy is saying
"He has no CURRENTLY KNOWN gameplay differences."

Nah, you'd think so, but that's what the wiki currently says. And he still keeps changing it.

 

[Idon]

They did show Simon tilting his forward air. Richter has been shown only using it in a straight horizontal line. We can assume that this is one such change, but that’s about the only difference I know of and it isn’t even confirmed. Sakurai and his conservative ways.

They did show Simon tilting his forward air. Richter has been shown only using it in a straight
Nah, we've seen him tilt his Fair.
During his showcase in the direct, he jumps and tilts his fair upwards.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I'm kinda hoping has enough differences so people don't start hating on her -style

I’m hoping they all get a little more to help with that.

 

[staindgrey]

I'm kinda hoping has enough differences so people don't start hating on her -style

I'm kinda hoping she has enough differences that I enjoy playing her. Because I really don't like playing Peach, but I've been hoping for Daisy's inclusion since before Brawl.

This is gonna be a really hard launch month for me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm kinda hoping has enough differences so people don't start hating on her -style

More like stopping hating her like that. Every clone gets pointless hate. I mean, I get wanting a clone to feel a bit more different, and that makes sense. Dark Pit could use a few more percentage/knockback angle differences at least, imo.

 

[Idon]

One day I hope to see Peach in her sports gear punching soccer balls into people's faces.

Until that day, Daisy as a Peach with different animations is better than nothing.

 

[Will]

One day I hope to see Peach in her sports gear punching soccer balls into people's faces.

Until that day, Daisy as a Peach with different animations is better than nothing.

I don't know, man. Long gone are the days of Peach having underwear on her model to make that type of stuff easily possible.

 

[staindgrey]

More like stopping hating her like that. Every clone gets pointless hate. I mean, I get wanting a clone to feel a bit more different, and that makes sense. Dark Pit could use a few more percentage/knockback angle differences at least, imo.

The difference between / and any other clones in Smash 4/Brawl/Melee is that there really weren't any significant differences to warrant them being new characters as opposed to skins, a la Alph or any of the Koopalings. They had the same animations, visuals and almost the exact same stats as their counterparts. Unlike, say, Young Link, Ganondorf, Wolf, etc., they didn't seem to have any visual justification, or actual application, for taking up character slots.

Now that they've branded the term "echo fighters", suddenly everyone's on board with the idea.

 

[Idon]

I don't know, man. Long gone are the days of Peach having underwear on her model to make that type of stuff easily possible.

You have no idea how much this disappoints me.

Spoiler: big Daisy

 

[pupNapoleon]

THIS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE REMINDS ME.

There is this dude on the Smash wiki who insists, like his life ****in' depends on it, that Richter has no gameplay differences from Simon, even though the blog post for Richter says that his moves have "subtle variations".

He's edited the wiki page for Richter AND for clones several times to say "they have no gameplay differences", and has even gone as far as undoing the edits of other people WHO UNDO HIS EDITS.

It drives me crazy, and I just needed to vent to SOMEONE, because this dude's an idiot.

I mean, he seems passionate, but as of right now, do we actually have any gameplay differences?

 

[Will]

You have no idea how much this disappoints me.

Spoiler: big Daisy

[insert thicc meme]

Yeah it kinda blows but with wacky zany alternate costumes we could get a little something something.

 

[staindgrey]

You have no idea how much this disappoints me.

Spoiler: big Daisy

Back before she was announced as an echo (before Smash 4, even), I'd made up a whole moveset inspired by her appearances in Mario Kart/Party/Strikers/other sports titles, with that as her character model.

I think most Daisy fans would prefer something like that over being a Peach clone.

 

[Idon]

I mean, he seems passionate, but as of right now, do we actually have any gameplay differences?

None currently known.
So we have no idea if it's as big as, say, Lucina not sharing Marth's tipper mechanic, or as small as Dark Pit's arrows doing more damage but being less bendable.

 

[pupNapoleon]

None currently known.
So we have no idea if it's as big as, say, Lucina not sharing Marth's tipper mechanic, or as small as Dark Pit's arrows doing more damage but being less bendable.

Then maybe calling the guy an idiot is out of place... but I digress... I'm not getting the impression that all of the clones will have many, if any, differences.

 

[Will]

Back before she was announced as an echo (before Smash 4, even), I'd made up a whole moveset inspired by her appearances in Metroid Prime, with that as her character model.

I think most Dark Samus fans would prefer something like that over being a Samus clone.

FTFY because that applies to any Echo. Except maybe Richter I guess since it's really his moveset.

Then maybe calling the guy an idiot is out of place... but I digress... I'm not getting the impression that all of the clones will have many, if any, differences.

has a tipper. is balanced.
has a base...er. what could possibly happen?

 

[Idon]

Back before she was announced as an echo (before Smash 4, even), I'd made up a whole moveset inspired by her appearances in Mario Kart/Party/Strikers/other sports titles, with that as her character model.

I think most Daisy fans would prefer something like that over being a Peach clone.

Yeah, I especially love Daisy's depictions in the sports games, because there she can actually stretch her legs and show off her tomboyish attitude. Otherwise in most other games, it's lip service in a small little blurb in her character bio.

 

[Hinata]

Then maybe calling the guy an idiot is out of place... but I digress... I'm not getting the impression that all of the clones will have many, if any, differences.

My problem is that he's trying to pass off the "no gameplay differences whatsoever" thing like it's fact. Like it's just something that's so obvious, and we're the idiots for not realizing it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The difference between / and any other clones in Smash 4/Brawl/Melee is that there really weren't any significant differences to warrant them being new characters as opposed to skins, a la Alph or any of the Koopalings. They had the same animations, visuals and almost the exact same stats as their counterparts. Unlike, say, Young Link, Ganondorf, Wolf, etc., they didn't seem to have any visual justification, or actual application, for taking up character slots.

Now that they've branded the term "echo fighters", suddenly everyone's on board with the idea.

It's not the label itself, it's explaining they weren't meant to be as unique as regulars. Still doesn't stop some complaints. It's probably due to how tangible the differences are. Even having a mechanical difference gets more interest. But yeah, some still would prefer Dark Pit and Lucina as alts(and Dr. Mario too). Speaking of, Dr. Mario is the only one of the new clones since Smash 4(as again, Echo Fighters are a type of clone) that is the same person but has a majorly different moveset. The rest are Echoes but unique. On the other hand, he's also a veteran, the same as the other clones, but it's an amusing coincidence.

 

[Demonfunds]

Then maybe calling the guy an idiot is out of place... but I digress... I'm not getting the impression that all of the clones will have many, if any, differences.

But, they have to have at least one difference, I mean if that was the case,that echos could have no differences then what makes Alph any different?

 

[TheKnight]

But, they have to have at least one difference, I mean if that was the case that echos could have no differences then what makes Alph any different?

Well I suppose his animations aren't unique at all, right? I can't wait until we can get all this echo character nonsense figured out when the game releases.

 

[Idon]

Then maybe calling the guy an idiot is out of place... but I digress... I'm not getting the impression that all of the clones will have many, if any, differences.

No, he's still quite an idiot.

First of all, he's editing a wiki, a source of info, with incomplete information based on assumptions.

Second of all, he's editing it with inaccurate information. Every echo, even the laziest of them, have a non-zero amount of gameplay differences. Even the character blog about him states that he has subtle differences. There's no reason or evidence to assume he has zero gameplay differences.

 

[staindgrey]

Then maybe calling the guy an idiot is out of place... but I digress... I'm not getting the impression that all of the clones will have many, if any, differences.

No, it's not really out of place when the creators have specifically stated that there are differences between the characters in gameplay. Even one small difference means that writing "there are no gameplay differences" is a false claim.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Then maybe calling the guy an idiot is out of place... but I digress... I'm not getting the impression that all of the clones will have many, if any, differences.

In Smash 4, Sakurai said he only gives characters a slot if they have mechanical differences. I’m hoping he didn’t go back on that rule.

 

[osby]

But, they have to have at least one difference, I mean if that was the case,that echos could have no differences then what makes Alph any different?

Pikmin being a chore to program makes the difference, probably.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Quick reminder that even something as small as an echo’s taunts or idle animation being different results in a miniscule but real gameplay difference due to the fact that a character’s hurtboxes are attached to their skeleton.

 

[Hinata]

Lemme show you guys just how far this dude is willin' to go to "prove his point".

Right now, Richter's page (along with a lot of other pages but that's not important) has a warning on it not to speculate. To only add info that's factual and can be proven.

And this dude, at one point...

flat-out removed the goddamn warning. He removed it, and replaced it with some nonsense about how Richter's "zero gameplay differences" is official.

 

[Luigi The President]

Just ban him from the wiki lol

 

[Idon]

Just ban the dude, lmao.

DAMMIT NINJA'D

 

[Will]

Bruh does SmashWiki not know how to ban people?

 

[Nethermoosen]

Lemme show you guys just how far this dude is willin' to go to "prove his point".

View attachment 161311Right now, Richter's page (along with a lot of other pages but that's not important) has a warning on it not to speculate. To only add info that's factual and can be proven.

And this dude, at one point...

View attachment 161312

flat-out removed the goddamn warning. He removed it, and replaced it with some nonsense about how Richter's "zero gameplay differences" is official.

This is referred to as “**** **** ***** ass” syndrome

 

[TipperTheScales]

The irony of this all is the actual name assigned to the edits is none other than Memoryman (granted not with a formal SSBWiki account but still)

 

[Blargg888]

THIS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE REMINDS ME.

There is this dude on the Smash wiki who insists, like his life ****in' depends on it, that Richter has no gameplay differences from Simon, even though the blog post for Richter says that his moves have "subtle variations".

He's edited the wiki page for Richter AND for clones several times to say "they have no gameplay differences", and has even gone as far as undoing the edits of other people WHO UNDO HIS EDITS.

It drives me crazy, and I just needed to vent to SOMEONE, because this dude's an idiot.

Wait, is it the same Memoryman3 as the previous Memoryman3, or is this guy just somebody impersonating MM3?

 

[Hinata]

I think he might be banned. I dunno. I looked at his contributions page, and he went from making edits to various pages basically every day to not making any since the 28th. My point is just at some point in the recent past, this was happening, and it annoyed the **** outta me.

The irony of this all is the actual name assigned to the edits is none other than Memoryman (granted not with a formal SSBWiki account but still)

I thought about mentioning who was behind the edits, but I didn't think it was relevant.

 

[TheYungLink]

Speaking of, Dr. Mario is the only one of the new clones since Smash 4(as again, Echo Fighters are a type of clone) that is the same person but has a majorly different moveset. The rest are Echoes but unique. On the other hand, he's also a veteran, the same as the other clones, but it's an amusing coincidence.

This is what bugged me about the Dark Pit hate back in the Smash 4 days. Dark Pit, though LITERALLY a clone, was canonically a separate person from Pit, and Dr. Mario is just Mario wearing different clothes, not even clothes that legit give him brand new abilities like the Tanuki Suit would. Yet Dr. Mario is the one who becomes a half-clone while Dark Pit has little to no differences to Pit since Dr. Mario was in Melee, so THEY'RE the ones that fans wanted to rip apart.

Disclaimer: though Dr. Mario is my least favorite inclusion in Smash, I no longer have a problem with him anymore since EVERYONE IS HERE and now Dark Pit style clones have a neat branding to them that allows us all to get giddy about the possibilities of fan favorites making it in. But yowzers did people hate on Dark Pit and were mostly fine with Dr. Mario, while seeing ZERO irony in that back in the Smash 4 days.