Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Enchess]

For me, it's...

Zero Mission > Fusion > Prime 1 > Super > Prime 3 > Other M > Metroid 1 > Samus Returns > Prime 2 > Metroid II

Didn't play Pinball, Hunters and Federation Force

I completely forgot Other M. I actually did enjoy it (just not the story). Added haha.

I'll always stick up for Metroid II. It was my 7th Metroid game and I didn't grow up with it, so it's not nostalgia. I was completely hooked from start to end. It clicked with me so much.

Fusion/ZM's physics felt bad to me(I like floaty Super), which is why I placed them lower. Fusion's linear nature also hurts it for me.

 

[Zinith]

I completely forgot Other M. I actually did enjoy it (just not the story). Added haha.

I'll always stick up for Metroid II. It was my 7th Metroid game and I didn't grow up with it, so it's not nostalgia. I was completely hooked from start to end. It clicked with me so much.

Fusion/ZM's physics felt bad to me(I like floaty Super), which is why I placed them lower. Fusion's linear nature also hurts it for me.

Being last on a list of METROID games isn't a bad thing imo

 

[Over9000BPM]

Like who gave y’all permission to discuss Metroid without me?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I think Metroid 2 was the first Metroid game I got.

I had a lot of the gameboy games of major franchises that were not played much by general fans

Such as Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters, Kirby's Dreamland 2, Metroid 2, etc/ I might still have them but I'm less sure than of my super Nintendo games since all my super nintendo games are right in my room.

A lot of sequels (2's) were released on Gameboy

 

[Nethermoosen]

I always remember Super Metroid and Prime I very fondly. Super Metroid being my first Metroid and Prime’s visors and immersion for the time was excellent. I loved being able to scan and log data to read and become familiar with my surroundings. My vocabulary also improved drastically from those scans.

 

[Enchess]

Being last on a list of METROID games isn't a bad thing imo

True. I love that series. Ignoring series with less than 5 games, I think it's the Nintendo series I would rate second highest on average

(highest for me is DK. Yes even with Jungle Beat. I actually really liked it. Yes with Konga. Of course with Konga. That's the most fun rhythm game other than Ouendan and anyone who disagrees is in denial)

 

[Over9000BPM]

I always remember Super Metroid and Prime I very fondly. Super Metroid being my first Metroid and Prime’s visors and immersion for the time was excellent. I loved being able to scan and log data to read and become familiar with my surroundings. My vocabulary also improved drastically from those scans.

I love scanning things in games in general, like fill me up with delicious and nutritious information :D

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler

Spoiler: Terry Bogard

Spoiler: Are you okay, Buster Wolf?

Big man from SNK land

 

[Zinith]

True. I love that series. Ignoring series with less than 5 games, I think it's the Nintendo series I would rate second highest on average

(highest for me is DK. Yes even with Jungle Beat. I actually really liked it. Yes with Konga. Of course with Konga. That's the most fun rhythm game other than Ouendan and anyone who disagrees is in denial)

Metroid is up there, but I'm more of a Zelda guy (and Mario and Yoshi but that's kinda obvious)

 

[Over9000BPM]

Metroid is up there, but I'm more of a Zelda guy (and Mario and Yoshi but that's kinda obvious)

You like Yoshi?

WHY DOES NOBODY TELL ME THESE THINGS

 

[Will]

I actually played both Federation Force and Triforce Heroes before I realized after a month literally nobody would play it online when they're designed to be co-op games. I still thought it was a neat game though. Not that complex or compelling, just fun. Had more fun out of it than TFH.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I actually played both Federation Force and Triforce Heroes before I realized after a month literally nobody would play it online when they're designed to be co-op games. I still thought it was a neat game though. Not that complex or compelling, just fun. Had more fun out of it than TFH.

The only issue with Federation Force was the timing in my opinion. You don’t release a spin-off like that when a franchise is recovering from a terrible game that nearly buried it entirely.

 

[Enchess]

Metroid is up there, but I'm more of a Zelda guy (and Mario and Yoshi but that's kinda obvious)

Zelda avg rating for me is dragged down by Phantom Hourglass, Triforce Heroes, Four Swords, and FS:Adventures. I like everything I've played in Metroid and DK more than any of those. Plus "meh" ones for me like Twilight Princess and Zelda 1/2

Mario has the same deal with Mario Land 1/2, New series, and, I know this is blasphemy nobody kill me, Mario 3.

Yoshi I love Story and Wooly, like Island, didn't care for the others.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Super = All of the Prime games > Zero Mission > Fusion > Metroid 1 & 2 for me.

Other M doesn't exist/is dead to me, no interest in Hunters or Federation Force, and I have yet to play Samus Returns.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Will]

The only issue with Federation Force was the timing in my opinion. You don’t release a spin-off like that when a franchise is recovering from a terrible game that nearly buried it entirely.

Trust me.

I know that feel just as strongly as you do.

 

[Enchess]

Trust me.

I know that feel just as strongly as you do.

Unpopular opinion: I'd rather F-Zero stay alive only through Mario Kart and Smash without a new game.

If Nintendo is gonna make a new racing game, I'd just rather Diddy Kong Racing or Wave Race.

But hopefully not Star Fox racing like the leak. I trust Nintendo usually, but this idea is more than enough to make me skeptical.

 

[Will]

Unpopular opinion: I'd rather F-Zero stay alive only through Mario Kart and Smash without a new game.

If Nintendo is gonna make a new racing game, I'd just rather Diddy Kong Racing or Wave Race.

But hopefully not Star Fox racing like the leak. I trust Nintendo usually, but this idea is more than enough to make me skeptical.

That's understandable. My problem with F-Zero is the way it ended on.

F-Zero had "holy **** this is amazing" gameplay with GX, but it came riddled with a terrible story and terrible voice acting. GP Legend (the game) had character arcs that developed over time and an overarching story (the anime has a similar concept of a plot, but the game goes with a different presentation that's way better in execution. Climax copies the anime more then GP Legend because GP Legend was made before the anime itself), but pretty generic gameplay that copied its SNES counterpart, which isn't exactly as thrilling.

The fact that we will probably never get the best of both worlds kinda just puts me in that limbo feel.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I’m still holding out hope for DLC skins...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Talking other Ninty games, I suppose I'll rank outta the ones I've played:

Mario (2D): SMW2: Yoshi's Island > Super Mario 3 > Super Mario World > Super Mario Bros. > Super Mario Land series > Super Mario Bros. 2 > Lost Levels

Mario (3D): Odyssey > 64 > Sunshine > Galaxy series

Zelda: ALttP = Majora's Mask > BotW > Link's Awakening > Oracle series > Four Swords > Ocarina of Time > Wind Waker > The Legend of Zelda 1 & 2

DK: DKCR series > DKC2 > DKC1 > DKC3

Mother: Mother 3 >>>>>>>>>>>> Earthbound/Mother 2 >>>>>>>> Mother 1 (lol)

And I suppose I'll cut it off here for now, work calls. With the exception of the Mother games, I just wanna say I'm not too terribly down on games that I rank lower personally. Don't take it like I feel those games are abysmal or anything (even if they really are).

Smooth Criminal

 

[Will]

Mother: Mother 3 >>>>>>>>>>>> Earthbound/Mother 2 >>>>>>>> Mother 1 (lol)

I still feel like if Mother 3 ever did come to the West, it'd be called some stupid **** like Earthbound Endings.

 

[praline]

I still feel like if Mother 3 ever did come to the West, it'd be called some stupid **** like Earthbound Endings.

Honestly yeah it's probably will be.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Second of all, he's editing it with inaccurate information. Every echo, even the laziest of them, have a non-zero amount of gameplay differences. Even the character blog about him states that he has subtle differences. There's no reason or evidence to assume he has zero gameplay differences.

What your argument boils down to is "Believe what you are told, not what you see." We don't see a single difference between some of the echoes (Daisy and Richter both come to mind). Even that is an exaggeration, as unless I'm mistaken, we were not told that all echoes have *gameplay* differences. I believe an appropriate paraphrase of the sentence used was "different animations, taunts, or even damage properties." Personally, how that came across to me, was that 1- just like Sakurai made Dark Pit different because of his personality, he wants to ensure the non-battle essence of a character feels true to them. 2- not all echoes have damage differences. (I have even heard competitors argue that just the difference between animation is a gameplay difference, because it can cause players to react differently. Example: Richter's blue flames may be harder to see on some backgrounds, especially to someone with color blindness).

A step further, Sakurai's words have not always been exactly true, even for a current game thoughts. He markets the game to give the audience the intended effect, and he is quite good at doing this in fact. If he wants us to feel the characters are different, he will market them to be very different.

Well, regardless, I stand by its probably not best to call someone an idiot, even if you consider his or her actions to be idiotic within a given context.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Super
Prime
Zero Mission
Prime 2
Returns
Fusion
Metroid II
Prime 3
Metroid
Hunters
Other M

Super Metroid was my favorite game for the longest time, until i played Earthbound, but I think just based on game design alone it's still one of the best games ever made, and visually it also holds up extremely well. Prime is almost just as good, it blew my mind when I first played it, so it only loses out by a hair.

Every game from Zero Mission and down to Metroid II are also great games that I regularly replay, and some I even speedrun. It's very difficult for me to choose between Fusion and Returns, will probably have to play Returns a couple more times to really make up my mind.

Prime 3 is the first game on the list that I think is just decent at best and that I don't really think I'll replay in a long time, it had so many issues. Metroid I highly respect for its impact, but it hasn't aged well at all. Hunters plays absolutely awfully and its story mode is a joke. Other M might actually be a better game than Hunters gameplay-wise (not saying much though), but then there's the story and 'sending the series on a 7-year hiatus' part which I don't appreciate.

Not ranking Prime Pinball because there's no point in comparing such different genres, and unlike the other games I didn't actually complete it. I never bought Federation Force. AM2R would fit in just below Returns.

 

[pupNapoleon]

In Smash 4, Sakurai said he only gives characters a slot if they have mechanical differences. I’m hoping he didn’t go back on that rule.

And in Smash 5, he went into detail about how "slots" arent even taken by echoes, but that they can be stacked...
In Smash 4 he made a point to say the point about mechanical differences. True. He did not make that statement in this game. In fact, he made a different statement... the one I referenced above in my last post about echo characters having different animations OR different damage properties.

Regardless. We have a number of characters without any seen differences, and no statement that all echoes get different damage properties.
If we are going to "assume" anything, it should be that we are getting what we see. Anything else seems to be throwing in what you think is going to happen, not information we currently have.

No, it's not really out of place when the creators have specifically stated that there are differences between the characters in gameplay. Even one small difference means that writing "there are no gameplay differences" is a false claim.

If we were told that all echoes have gameplay differences, then my mistake. That said, I think you are misquoting what was told to us. If it is the quotation I've referenced above.

 

[KMDP]

I still feel like if Mother 3 ever did come to the West, it'd be called some stupid **** like Earthbound Endings.

Earthbound 2: The Porkening
---
Okay, there are like 40 new pages since I left yesterday. What happened?

Crazy new leak? Or just tons of people talking?

 

[Zinith]

Earthbound 2: The Porkening
---
Okay, there are like 40 new pages since I left yesterday. What happened?

Crazy new leak? Or just tons of people talking?

Mostly just talking, playing a game and laughing at horribly photoshopped leaks...

Also Boshi...

 

[Heatswave]

Fusion
Prime
Zero Mission
Prime 3
Prime 2
Samus Returns
Super
Other M

That said, as I'm playing Super right now it suffers greatly from the limited controls at the time, but aged surprisingly well. If they make a remake, it would potentially get up to the Top 3...
Actually all of the games are great, only Other M has some major flaws, but I still like it.

 

[StormC]

Super Metroid is the only Metroid I've played to completion but it's an amazing, fantastic game, one of the few games I would truly call perfect. Replaying it on the SNES Classic and getting 100% was a truly satisfying experience.

I find FPS games disorienting, I got about a third of the way through Prime 1... maybe I should try it again someday.

I got about 2 hours into both Fusion and Zero Mission, been meaning to pick them back up. I bought Samus Returns and still haven't started it.

So yeah, really enjoy 2D Metroid, but I want a 3D Metroid that's primarily a TPS/third person action game. Prime 4 doesn't really excite me.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Earthbound 2: The Porkening
---
Okay, there are like 40 new pages since I left yesterday. What happened?

Crazy new leak? Or just tons of people talking?

I was told a lot of leaks happened. "Bad" leaks.
What they were is only for the thread history to know,

...and the guardians of veracity in the vernacular.

 

[Heatswave]

Super Metroid is the only Metroid I've played to completion but it's an amazing, fantastic game, one of the few games I would truly call perfect. Replaying it on the SNES Classic and getting 100% was a truly satisfying experience.

I have major problems with the controls on the SNES Classic with Super, especially the sprint button... Just finished the water boss yesterday, which was kind of a nightmare...

 

[Zathura]

I feel like returns doesn’t get nearly enough love. I get some of the reasons why people say it’s not the best, but it’s a straight upgrade from Metroid 2 in terms of both gameplay and graphics

 

[StormC]

I have major problems with the controls on the SNES Classic with Super, especially the sprint button... Just finished the water boss yesterday, which was kind of a nightmare...

You know you can adjust the controls to any button you want, right?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I feel like returns doesn’t get nearly enough love. I get some of the reasons why people say it’s not the best, but it’s a straight upgrade from Metroid 2 in terms of both gameplay and graphics

I think a lot of it actually boils down to
1- being on the 3DS after the Switch was released
2- being a remake in general. (Personally, even if different, I consider most remakes to be the same game, unless as different as Let's Go Eevee!).

 

[KMDP]

I haven't played a single Metroid game, with the exception of possibly what little of Metroid/Super Metroid you can play (which ever is available) in Brawl.

Which is basically, like, less than 1% of the game anyway.

The most experience I've had with Metroid outside of Smash (beginning with Melee) is GDQ Speedruns and Chuggaaconroy's Playthrough in The Runaway Guys, all of which are Super Metroid.

 

[Heatswave]

I feel like returns doesn’t get nearly enough love. I get some of the reasons why people say it’s not the best, but it’s a straight upgrade from Metroid 2 in terms of both gameplay and graphics

Samus Returns is imo the hardest of the 'modern' Metroids, that could be why. Also, the counter mechanic was pretty hard to get used to (for me at least).
Still, I agree, that it is a great game.

 

[StormC]

Personally I thought Super Metroid's controls were fantastic, and I first played the game in 2012. But I also grew up in the SNES era, like the boomer I am.

I can't think of any characters that are as fun to control as Samus in that game. You're practically a superhero by the endgame.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Fusion
Prime
Zero Mission
Prime 3
Prime 2
Samus Returns
Super
Other M

That said, as I'm playing Super right now it suffers greatly from the limited controls at the time, but aged surprisingly well. If they make a remake, it would potentially get up to the Top 3...
Actually all of the games are great, only Other M has some major flaws, but I still like it.

Super's controls are certainly different from future installments', and I fully understand if you prefer the less floaty gameplay, but if you learn to master the controls they're actually the most free in the entire series. Like, just the fact that you can freely control your momentum allows you to do so much more, and the walljump isn't as limited as in Fusion and Returns where it doesn't allow you to jump up the same wall. Super's shinespark is also crazy awesome for allowing you to go in diagonal directions.

Playing Super in the same way as more modern titles is like playing Melee without L-Cancelling and Wavedashing, it feels pretty bad. Of course that's not to say that you'd like Super's gameplay over Fusion and forward's anyways, preferences are a thing as always, just wanted to point it out.

 

[Zathura]

I think a lot of it actually boils down to
1- being on the 3DS after the Switch was released
2- being a remake in general. (Personally, even if different, I consider most remakes to be the same game, unless as different as Let's Go Eevee!).

It was announced alongside prime 4 so I didn’t think it being on the 3ds would be a problem, especially when good 3ds games are still being released. I guess everyone was just too focused on the switch.

Samus Returns is imo the hardest of the 'modern' Metroids, that could be why. Also, the counter mechanic was pretty hard to get used to (for me at least).
Still, I agree, that it is a great game.

Yeah I like the counter mechanic a lot, I love when remakes add new things to make it more interesting

 

[KMDP]

You're practically a superhero by the endgame.

Well, you are able to shoot rainbow lasers that instantly kill everything and anything in your path,

Oh, wait. That's the postgame. XD

 

[Pakky]

I've been playing a ton of XB2 and man I hope someone from there or XBCX gets into the base roster.

The blade designs are great.


I know people have been saying that XB2 missed the target for the project plan. But pretending to know what went on behind closed doors comes off as arrogant and presumptuous to me.