Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DraginHikari]

That would definitely be interesting. Leaks are good at generating discussion and gives, perhaps, new hope for characters who were deeemed unlikely by the community.

I have a question for everyone. Why do people make leaks?

Is it for recognition, fleeting fame, and to be featured in a YouTube video or in a gaming news article?
Is it to have some perceived control over the roster and to fulfil some desire “to create”?
Is to to find challenge in making a believable roster?
Is to to dupe the masses and laugh as they talk themselves into circles. Trolololo
Or is it out of sheer boredom?

I image any of those could be true depending on the leaker. I doubt very little there a broad overall reason.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

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[Wyoming]

G-G-GUYS??!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8eEBCmh33U

Is that you at the end

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Must've been a long way back, but I would not mind seeing him. He might take Luigi's spot because of his cowardice, well, he does have bravery for his kind, so....yeh.

I swear I’ve seen that guy before, but I don’t know what he’s from. Can ya tell me?

 

[hazza5557]

What’s this?

 

[Luigi The President]

Finally decided to make a mishmash of my crazy stupid "prediction".

View attachment 161043

i forgot a pokemon i'll talk about that later

Spoiler: obligatory explanation of everyone

Newcomers
Geno, Isaac, and Paper Mario really need no introduction. They've been some of the biggest Smash requests for almost a decade's worth now. I'm confident enough to say that all three of them have a plausible shot to finally make their way.

Skull Kid isn't because of muh chairs, it's solely for the MIA Assist and the fact that the Moon is now an Assist trophy. Skull Kid is associated heavily with the moon, his lack of appearance or even not making him use the moon is mega suspicious. Also I have a gut feeling that the whole strew of villain slideshows will continue past K. Rool, starting with the same reel including K. Rool.

Porky is the most unique main antagonist you could grab out of Mother. His spider mech (or configured bed mech if you so choose) allows him to use way more diverse attacks that aren't on the same level of Giy "how the **** do we use this still NES sprite" gas and Claus. Also villainy or something.

I'm still confident on Mach Rider because of the rifle used by Sakurai. Geno's hand gun only has the barrel to take note of or can just base off of his Wii U costume and refine upon it. To create an entirely new rifle for something (which we haven't seen for an item yet), Mach Rider is still up there IMO since the rifles have similar builds to them.

Chorus Kids were alluded to by Gematsu and files in the game itself show a Rhythm Heaven character was playable. Chrom was also in the same boat before getting cut in 4 and he finally showed up. Perhaps it'll be a convenient time to revive him, not for the sake of polls, but just because now he can.

Rayman is the go-to choice for Ubisoft rep, first choice, not even a ****ing question. He does have history with Nintendo and Ubisoft had always gotten Nintendo's back, even in the Great Depression Wii U era they still had them. Since they're collaborating more, I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up.

Finally, Steve. You probably already know my stance on him. In the distant year of 2015, I always had the belief that Geno wasn't going to be in the game as long as Cloud existed. And then Cloud got in the game, and now I think Geno's ready. I have the same stance on Steve. Banjo is equal to him I believe in pretty much every aspect and is really just a Boomer VS Zoomer ordeal, but I think Steve edges out on this one. Sorry.

I FORGOT INCINEROAR ****
Yeah he's the most likely I believe, easy to base off of from concept art and as much as I love Buzzwole starters get the most attention.

Echoes
They're Newcomers too but they deserve their own time.

Dixie Kong is an easy model copy/paste with a bit more adjustments to the hair and whatnot. And since we don't see Diddy using his tail as often, it makes a new boundary for Dixie to shine. Donkey Kong's recovery can be used instead of Diddy's, but make the hitbox smaller. Young Link and Toon Link have a different effect from regular Link where the sword swings of their recovery swing in and hit constantly every time, while Link's isn't. The same can apply to Dixie to make her slightly different.

Shadow is MIA, an easy as heck model swap because his model is already in the previous games and it can be applied almost immediately after a few cosmetic touch-ups to make him more Shadow-y. I'd say this takes the least amount of effort out of any Echo in the game possible. Make his recovery Mewtwo's teleport and call it a night

Ken is the OG Echo, the OG Clone charater. I feel like Ken can be a simplified Ryu; one where he doesn't require any inputs and all of his attacks are balanced out rather than the weak basic and strong input command Ryu. Also fire, that's a thing. I think the only real differences come in Final Smashes and the animation for the Focus Strike.

I wasn't considering Felix at first, but after the Simon/Richter incident, I completely expect Isaac to get another buddy to flesh out Golden Sun a tiny bit more. I originally intended to put in Matthew and then I realized "wait they look the exact same". No real reason why he needs a placement, he just can.

Bottom Row
The bottom row is what I expect to come out of DLC characters in the future.

I'll be honest, I don't expect Elma to appear anymore in the base game. Maybe because I'm not very confident in her ballot results, or maybe it's because of Xenoblade 2 possibly overshadowing her and Sakurai wanted to wait. But I believe both her and Rex/Pyra will appear simultaneously to give Xenoblade some more representation. Rex and Pyra are a given considering how Sakurai loves the game and the characters themselves.

Spring Man from ARMS, if it was made noticed and developed early, was probably going to be in the base game, not gonna lie. Even if ARMS didn't sell amazingly well, the potential of the character and his gimmick being fluid range (as opposed to Simon and Richter's fixed range) could open up for opportunities.

Fire Emblem will probably get a new character. It's inevitable. Is it Zelgius? Is it Hector? Is it Edelgard for the ad slot #3? Who ****ing knows, anything could happen when this series tries to show its face and not get crucified.

Banjo, as much as I make my arguments against him, is probably going to be in one way or the other. I don't believe he'll get in through base, but I do believe DLC is an easy ticket. I'm not gonna call it a shoo-in, I'm gonna call it a complementary afterthought after the game was said and done.

Ayumi could be a substitute for a Phoenix Wright-based character if Sakurai cannot get the licensing or just wants to show off his weird fetish for older titles. I know with Mach Rider it'd make two retro characters which may be deemed unnecessary or just weird, but there hasn't been a real detective character yet and you this schoolgirl is certainly the biggest crowd caller for its own company.

Travis Touchdown. No More Heroes 3. Ubisoft. You get the point.

I also have a select pair of Echoes underneath them. I have this idea that they might release Echoes in series packs, like they select a certain series and they get certain stuff out of it (Mii Costumes, maybe a stage, new tracks, and Echo Fighters).

Ninten (Ness) and Giygas (Mewtwo) bump Mother up to a whopping 5 characters in my roster, but since it's DLC and such worthless effort it probably doesn't matter since it's optional, it's a doable love letter to the series.

I don't believe Black Shadow would be in base, hell I'd be surprised if he even showed up at all. But through DLC, Black Shadow's resurgence of somewhat popularity may have come a tad late for the base game, but I can easily see him show up as Falcon's Echo fighter.

Impa is most people's next best bet for a Zelda character, which is understandable if they doubt Skull Kid. I doubt that she'll be in the game, but through DLC she will probably get notified for her sizeable supporters and become a Sheik Echo. And then Hilda is just piss easy.

Yeah I think that's enough to talk about. Maybe I'm smart maybe I'm stupid, who knows. I got about 3 months before I get nuked.

THIS IS WHAT I LIKE TO SEE AND YOUR IQ IS ABOVE RICK AND MORTY ITSELF

 

[IGuessItsOver]

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[CosmicQuark]

The thing I find really fishy about Verg is how unspecific some of this information is. How would he know it's not Lycanroc or Decidueye? They aren't pokeballs, so did his sources see them in the background of a stage or something? And how is he so confident that there's Minecraft content if he doesn't even know what it is? Same thing with that whole "a second Square Enix rep" thing. He doesn't even know what game they're going to be from? What kind of source is giving him this information?

Simon convinced me he has at least one source who knows some stuff, but I'm really having a hard time buying everything he says.

But why?

If they know it's Incineroar, and they're leaking information to him anyway, why didn't they just tell him "Incineroar"? Why do they have to complicate it by only saying who it's not?

I think the reason he's vague is because of how secretive the environment is--the people there may only vaguely know certain stuff, on a need to know basis. Specifically with Incineroar, I believe he has said that only one of his sources said it was Incineroar, the rest only knew of a Gen 7 Pokemon. However, because it's also been said that different people working on the game are fed false information, to easily track down who leaked something, Verge wants to confirm with multiple sources before saying anything definitive. The only reason he said he mentioned Incineroar was because Loz posted his e-mail, despite his wishes. And the reason he probably knew what Pokemon it wasn't, for sure, was because perhaps they showed up in a non-playable fashion (as Mimikyu turned out to be a pokeball summons).

That's the story from his perspective. People can believe him or not. While I don't "trust" any rumor with high certainty (and they're rumors, not leaks, for that reason), he's had a perfect track record with Smash, whereas Loz got the last Direct wrong. It's fine to trust neither, though I can't see Loz being more trustworthy than Verge. But people seem to have a deep hatred of him for some reason, but so far for Smash, he's been 100% correct so far.

 

[Captain Fun]

I like this idea that leakers cant take decent photos of a screen.

 

[Shroob]

Isabelle after learning her vacation hours got cut in half.

 

[StormC]

God Isabelle beating the crap out of people with boxing gloves is going to be hilarious.

You can have a four way boxing match with Little Mac/Villager/K. Rool/Isabelle.

 

[Misery Brick]

I'm intrigued to see how they're gonna top this. Maybe not - Sm4sh did its big reveals early and didn't have much excitement at the end, but I feel like Sakurai's still got something big up his sleeve.

Only problem is that I have a weird feeling that 'complete bombshell' may be 'breaking the 4th party rule' with Goku...

I think we're all at the point that we need more news before we all go insane. That's the main reason I preferred the DOJO and the PotD - we got a bit of new information each day, so if nothing else we had a series of discussion topics.

I don't think he'd go that far. I mean even the ballot said "characters from video games" or something along that line.
I think if we get a complete bombshell of a character it'll probably be someone from a third-party developer, like...Master Chief.
Or Banjo, it could be Banjo.
Both would definitely cause a lot of fanfare given they're Microsoft characters, but I think the Spartan would be insanely mind-blowing for a lot of people. But Banjo would definitely feel like one of the biggest reunions for a vast amount of people.

But if we are talking about 4th-Party characters, it'd have to go to one of the most iconic and important characters in all of fiction:

Mickey Mouse. It's probably Mickey Mouse.

 

[onga999]

Any information on if these images are from the same source as the recent render leaks?

 

[Captain Fun]

Isabelle after learning her vacation hours got cut in half.

who is she gonna hurt with those tiny hands

 

[Starbound]

Hasn't the Geno one been brought up before as using the Smashified render?

Isabelle one looks new though.

 

[Shroob]

who is she gonna hurt with those tiny hands

My very-small self-esteem.

 

[Will]

>blurry
>out of focus
>those smash 4 boxing gloves

 

[Zinith]

who is she gonna hurt with those tiny hands

Yeah, only characters with BIG hands can do damage...

 

[MainJPW]

Eh, I guess they just don't always follow logic or physics. Like how Link can beat Ganondorf with a bottle, those levels of dumb.

One's a gameplay mechanic and another's a cutscene of Toad just jumping. I don't see how the two are comparable.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Any information on if these images are from the same source as the recent render leaks?

The geno one is old from what I understand and the render leaks promptly dug their own grave already, they are super fake don't give then any thought

 

[SonicMario]

I think what kind of adds on to the sadness about Captain Toad is that if Ultimate had gone by Smash 4 rules of including relevant and/or newer characters that also have some degree of legacy. Captain Toad would of been a near certainty. But Ultimate's focus shifted to longtime fan-requested characters. (Not saying that's a bad thing BTW, it'a awesome that Ridley and K. Rool finally got their chance)

And while Toad could count as a longtime requested character, who knows if Sakurai felt that the requests for Toad correlated with Captain Toad's. So it's like supporters from Captain Toad actually felt some confidence heading into this game when they thought character inclusions were going to be similar to last game's but then it's all pulled under the rug under them once it becomes clear this game's choices were chosen differently.

And whether or not you're a fan of Toad. That's yet another unfortunate coincidence of this little guy who's been part of Nintendo's flagship franchise just as long as Peach and Bowser have been. And should be considered a Nintendo All-Star but still haven't managed to get into the Smash line-up. Toad may not be a high request on the level Ridley and K. Rool has been. But you gotta have sympathy for his fans.

 

[LetterO]

Why are "leaks" always blurry photos? The ESRB leaker was actually able to take photos of a good quality, and it ended up being true. "Leaks" with blurry photos are almost never true.

 

[MBRedboy31]

who is she gonna hurt with those tiny hands

Remember, smaller hands means less surface area, which means more pressure at the point of impact (hence why spike pits are dangerous and floors aren’t, despite the same force being applied to both if you’re standing on them)

 

[Shroob]

If/when Isabelle gets shown, I wonder if there'll be a brief resurgence of Killager.

 

[StormC]

I think the most accurate description I've read about this speculation cycle is we went into Smash 4 thinking it would be like Ultimate and went into Ultimate thinking it would be like Smash 4.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Here is an idea for Captain Toad - what if he's a Super Heavy with a ridiculously fast falls speed, but also lacks an air jump? Every character so far has one, but they could make an exception for Toad to make him unique. Perhaps his up-special could be him tossing his backpack as a powerful projectile. Losing it will temporarily make him a feather weight and increase his jump height, floatiness, and give him access to another jump until it respawns.

Not that I actually expect him to ever be playable, but I think there's creative ways you could make it work..

There could be a million reasons, frankly.

Maybe the sources saw an Alola stage with Decidueye in the BG and Lycanroc is yet to be unveiled as a new Pokeball.

Maybe said person was a playtester and didn't want to blow their cover by saying "Incineroar".

Maybe it's not Incineroar and his one source that said it was was wrong.


Who knows at this point.

My personal rule of thumb is that leaks don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. If there's something suspicious about them, it's not up to the speculators to find explanations for that, as people will always find answers explaining what they want to believe, like with the Gothitelle leak. And cryptic "we're getting a second Square rep" sounds an awful lot like something a fake leaker would say to stir up Geno supporters and get them talking.

Not that I actually think Verg is just another fake after all hes' predicted so far but I'm not going to believe every single thing he says until it's proven.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If/when Isabelle gets shown, I wonder if there'll be a brief resurgence of Killager.

No, at that point it'll be Killsabelle

 

[Iridium]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Never mind the giveaway, the controller looks so good! The steelbook too, but I wish we could get the actual case too. I need this. I haven't touched a single Pro Controller in my life.

 

[Will]

Let's talk about the Villager's boxing gloves here.

I think Bowser Jr. even uses the same model here.



It looks a lot different in Smash 4, more clown-nose red (idk what to call it) like that Isabelle.

Or just call me Tinfoil Tom just because I'm like one of the two guys who said "Isabelle? this ain't it chief" and I'm obviously seething.

 

[StormC]

What's interesting as a K. Rool fan is reading that a lot of people here outright expected him in Smash 4. I didn't join SmashBoards until after Smash 4 was out, but as someone who had K. Rool as my most wanted character, I had thrown in the towel around the time Rosalina was revealed. Characters having "check out [their recent game]" on their website profiles indicated to me that K. Rool wasn't coming... but surely we'd get Dixie and Ridley at least.

Welp.

Kritters in Smash Run gave me some hope, but I just never really "felt" like he would be in the same way I did with this game.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

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This looks weirdly satisfying

 

[Noipoi]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Never mind the giveaway, the controller looks so good! The steelbook too, but I wish we could get the actual case too. I need this. I haven't touched a single Pro Controller in my life.

I kinda prefer the normal box art to the steel book, just because I love the banner so much. But this controller is amazing and I need it.

 

[WertQuadNine]

I actually think the purple and yellow seats and the green sofa in the background of the last direct are strong enough evidence for Skull Kid. As well as the fact that we haven’t seen his AT and Verge predicts him, I’d say Skull Kid is an 100% lock now.

My guy, you gonna be lead to PURE disappointment if that's your bases for predicting a character.

 

[SonicMario]

No, at that point it'll be Killsabelle

Why not both?

Villager as the Joker, Isabelle as his Harley Quinn :V

Tom Nook is Batman

 

[Union of Darkness]

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Looks pretty low quality, especially the hair.

 

[SebasSancy]

Don't get why these leaks are all blurry. When the smash 4 leak happen I remember the image were almost clear, and they showed the full render not just a random body part like the face, that's why I struggle to believe this new "leaks".If someone got a version of the game early and wanna leak everything, they're going to leak everything

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, I know there's not a 'lot' they can do with Isabelle due to her pretty basic design, but that model looks right out of the WiiU game tbh.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Closest thread I think this is on-topic but what exactly are everyone's thoughts on this leak?

The first one in the video might be the most believable leak yet (Second one as well if it wasn't confirmed to be fake.) I can definitely believe it. The third one though not so much since I can't see Dry Bowser getting in and if so he'd be an echo rather then an newcomer.

Newcomers:
Bandana Dee
Banjo-Kazooie
Chorus Kids
Geno
Incineroar
Isaac
Rex
Skull Kid

Echo Fighters:
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)
Felix (Isaac)
Gardevoir (Mewtwo)
Isabelle (Villager)
Ken (Ryu)
Shadow (Sonic)

Personally I would had if anything thought the only drawbacks being that Banjo-Kazooie and Rex would be DLC and Karate Joe being used instead of the Chorus Kids as well as Heihachi filling the second Namco rep. But otherwise I find this pretty believable and legit.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

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Isabelle after hearing of Amiibo Festival's reviews.

Here is an idea for Captain Toad - what if he's a Super Heavy with a ridiculously fast falls speed, but also lacks an air jump? Every character so far has one, but they could make an exception for Toad to make him unique. Perhaps his up-special could be him tossing his backpack as a powerful projectile. Losing it will temporarily make him a feather weight and increase his jump height, floatiness, and give him access to another jump until it respawns.

This would neatly go in-line with Toad canonically being a terrible jumper.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Here is an idea for Captain Toad - what if he's a Super Heavy with a ridiculously fast falls speed, but also lacks an air jump? Every character so far has one, but they could make an exception for Toad to make him unique. Perhaps his up-special could be him tossing his backpack as a powerful projectile. Losing it will temporarily make him a feather weight and increase his jump height, floatiness, and give him access to another jump until it respawns.

Giving a char melee fast fall, no double jump, and an up b that doesn't sound like it'd immediately launch him up/isn't recovery. I think that's how you go about making a lowtier char