Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chandeelure]

Man, I really hope this is in Smash Ultimate:

 

[TheYungLink]

We have a stage based on Super Mario 3D Land but not the superior 3D World. Captain Toad being playable would help represent that game along with his own.

 

[StormC]

I would prefer Captain Toad to vanilla Toad but I feel like Toad and Waluigi are two of the few characters Sakurai genuinely treats with disdain.

Not even a Captain Toad supporter per se, but being a stage cameo in New Donk? Not even an AT? Damn.

 

[GunBlaze]

The worst things about SFV are Juri's design, her theme and the fact that she is bottom tier.

They ruined everything about her lol.

THANK. YOU.

She was such a beautiful character in SFIV, mechanically and aesthetically...

Eh, they've done more with less.
Remember, Duck Hunt literally wasn't even playable.

There were certain versions where you could play as the ducks if you were Player 2.

 

[Shroob]

But why?

If they know it's Incineroar, and they're leaking information to him anyway, why didn't they just tell him "Incineroar"? Why do they have to complicate it by only saying who it's not?

There could be a million reasons, frankly.

Maybe the sources saw an Alola stage with Decidueye in the BG and Lycanroc is yet to be unveiled as a new Pokeball.

Maybe said person was a playtester and didn't want to blow their cover by saying "Incineroar".

Maybe it's not Incineroar and his one source that said it was was wrong.


Who knows at this point.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Those guys can jump though...
I'm not anti-Captain Toad, but a lot of people downplay that hurdle.

I mean if I recall correctly Olimar couldn't jump, nor villager, and for little MAC they even made his lack of air experience a gameplay factor

 

[Giveaway412]

I would prefer Captain Toad to vanilla Toad but I feel like Toad and Waluigi are two of the few characters Sakurai genuinely treats with disdain.

Not even a Captain Toad supporter per se, but being a stage cameo in New Donk? Not even an AT? Damn.

I don't think Sakurai treats them with disdain so much that he isn't aware of the fan appeal for them, or at least wasn't until Ultimate's roster was already decided.

Before his reveal in Ultimate, I thought Sakurai had some kind of personal grudge against K. Rool, but apparently neither he nor anybody at Nintendo were aware of his popularity until the ballot.

 

[Luigi The President]

I would prefer Captain Toad to vanilla Toad but I feel like Toad and Waluigi are two of the few characters Sakurai genuinely treats with disdain.

Not even a Captain Toad supporter per se, but being a stage cameo in New Donk? Not even an AT? Damn.

I don't quite get this philosophy behind characters lately. I see the same for Tails. What gives?
It's not a dishonor to waddle around and make a neat, fitting cameo on stage. It's an honor in the first place that Sakurai even placed them in there.
They don't all gotta be AT's, imo.

 

[blazefan519]

I would prefer Captain Toad to vanilla Toad but I feel like Toad and Waluigi are two of the few characters Sakurai genuinely treats with disdain.

Not even a Captain Toad supporter per se, but being a stage cameo in New Donk? Not even an AT? Damn.

You don't know how much it hurt me when I found out. You could have at least made him AT so I could join the AT Mourners but, I get nothing. Background asset.

All around me are familiar faces~

 

[Iridium]

Man, I really hope this is in Smash Ultimate:

I still stand for some more Kid Icarus NES love, especially these two tracks:

 

[KingBroly]

The longer we go without a definitive Pokemon leak or reveal, the more likely I'm convinced that there isn't a new Pokemon.

 

[RandomAce]

I mean, his other sources could know it's Incineroar, but they just didn't tell him by name.

I mean, one flat out already said "It's Incineroar", with the other two giving radio silence.


If you knew "It's Incineroar", you'd obviously know it's "Also not Lycanroc, Mimikyu or Decidueye."

Well the thing is, if Vergeben says it’s not Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu, then that would defeat the purpose of him not wanting to release info on Incineroar since that means he’s riding off of that one source, since he said that he’s unsure since the other two haven’t gave insight on it yet. (Although I’m unsure if they also said that Decidueye and Lycanroc weren’t in either).

There has to be a reason for why they’re both disconfirmed, otherwise he’s actually putting all of his eggs on that one source and may have jumped the gun. Apparently other insiders still weren’t sure who the character actually was and didn’t know who to disconfim yet, and thus didn’t say anything due to the fact how Nintendo also is giving falsified information to trap leakers, they need to be careful.

 

[Luigi The President]

The longer we go without a definitive Pokemon leak or reveal, the more likely I'm convinced that there isn't a new Pokemon.

What do you see as definitive, may I ask?

 

[Shroob]

I mean if I recall correctly Olimar couldn't jump, nor villager, and for little MAC they even made his lack of air experience a gameplay factor

Olimar and Villager can theoretically jump.

Captain Toad's logic for not jumping is his backpack is too heavy.

 

[Noipoi]

I mean if I recall correctly Olimar couldn't jump, nor villager, and for little MAC they even made his lack of air experience a gameplay factor

Those guys can't jump because their games don't require jumping. Captain Toad physically cannot jump.
There's a difference
If Sakurai really wanted he could work around it, but I guess he didn't want too.

 

[blazefan519]

Olimar and Villager can theoretically jump.

Captain Toad's logic for not jumping is his backpack is too heavy.

And also his gameplay wouldn't work if he could. Just like Olimar and Little Mac. Just give him weak jumps.

 

[Nazyrus]

The thing I find really fishy about Verg is how unspecific some of this information is. How would he know it's not Lycanroc or Decidueye? They aren't pokeballs, so did his sources see them in the background of a stage or something? And how is he so confident that there's Minecraft content if he doesn't even know what it is? Same thing with that whole "a second Square Enix rep" thing. He doesn't even know what game they're going to be from? What kind of source is giving him this information?

Simon convinced me he has at least one source who knows some stuff, but I'm really having a hard time buying everything he says.

My money is on the possible chance that the sources are different people working on different departments / teams that handle specific type of information, hence why Verg waits for each one of them to give him info that he can conclude something from, or if they actually are straightforward. He explained he didn't mention Ritcher because he didn't know the context on what the lines were actually recorded, otherwise he would've mentioned it if he felt confident about it. It's shady because he is depending on multiple sources to actually tell us something, instead of just telling us whatever each one tells him… I mean if one was wrong he could always blame such source instead of worrying his ass about his own credibility, it's all about his sources credibility more than his own, lol

 

[StormC]

I don't think Sakurai treats them with disdain so much that he isn't aware of the fan appeal for them, or at least wasn't until Ultimate's roster was already decided.

Before his reveal in Ultimate, I thought Sakurai had some kind of personal grudge against K. Rool, but apparently neither he nor anybody at Nintendo were aware of his popularity until the ballot.

Personally I believe that Toad having a more active role in Peach's moveset was a response to the ballot support for Captain Toad. I'm sure Captain Toad at least got noticed in the results by Sakurai, if characters like Chrom and Dark Samus did.

I don't quite get this philosophy behind characters lately. I see the same for Tails. What gives?
It's not a dishonor to waddle around and make a neat, fitting cameo on stage. It's an honor in the first place that Sakurai even placed them in there.
They don't all gotta be AT's, imo.

I wouldn't say the same thing about Tails because he's a secondary Sonic character, and third parties are treated as guests. But we've seen a lot of characters popular among the ballot - Krystal, Bomberman, Shovel Knight - get some sort of nod as an AT. Captain Toad gets nothing, which to me is an extension of the fact that he has thought of Toad as little more than a prop for Peach since 2001.

Again, not really a Toad supporter, but that's how it comes off to me.

 

[KingBroly]

What do you see as definitive, may I ask?

Like...a crystalization of opinion. Not 'oh, I've heard it's this Pokemon but I'm still unsure' that some leakers keep putting out there.

 

[Luigi The President]

Personally I believe that Toad having a more active role in Peach's moveset was a response to the ballot support for Captain Toad. I'm sure Captain Toad at least got noticed in the results by Sakurai, if characters like Chrom and Dark Samus did.



I wouldn't say the same thing about Tails because he's a secondary Sonic character, and third parties are treated as guests. But we've seen a lot of characters popular among the ballot - Krystal, Bomberman, Lyn, Shovel Knight - get some sort of nod as an AT. Captain Toad gets nothing, which to me is an extension of the fact that he has thought of Toad as little more than a prop for Peach since 2001.

Again, not really a Toad supporter, but that's how it comes off to me.

Okay, I can grasp this philosophy, thank you.

 

[TriforceBun]

Um, wow. I think that vid just made me a Captain Toad supporter...!

 

[Noipoi]

You don't know how much it hurt me when I found out. You could have at least made him AT so I could join the AT Mourners but, I get nothing. Background asset.

All around me are familiar faces~

Don't worry, you're still invited to the mass deconfirmation funeral December 6th.
It's where we let out our sadness and mourn those who couldn't make it so we're at full hype for December 7th.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Olimar and Villager can theoretically jump.

Captain Toad's logic for not jumping is his backpack is too heavy.

Now call me crazy. But what if, IF, he took off the backpack before the round starts?

 

[StormC]

Captain Toad falls into the "would be an obvious choice in a normal Smash game with 10+ newcomers" category alongside Takamaru and Ashley, I think.

Competition is just soooooooo freaking tight now. You really have to bring your A game to make it in, I think.

 

[Iridium]

The longer we go without a definitive Pokemon leak or reveal, the more likely I'm convinced that there isn't a new Pokemon.

Honestly, I have a feeling every Pokémon rumor will be destroyed when the game comes out, as none of the Pokémon these "leakers" suggest will come will actually arrive. Seriously, if we get perhaps Kommo-o or Pheromosa, people would freak.

Incineroar & Decidueye? My secondary list needs a few more!

 

[SebasSancy]

Proof that Captain Toad can jump:

 

[ganondorf_22]

Personally I believe that Toad having a more active role in Peach's moveset was a response to the ballot support for Captain Toad. I'm sure Captain Toad at least got noticed in the results by Sakurai, if characters like Chrom and Dark Samus did.



I wouldn't say the same thing about Tails because he's a secondary Sonic character, and third parties are treated as guests. But we've seen a lot of characters popular among the ballot - Krystal, Bomberman, Shovel Knight - get some sort of nod as an AT. Captain Toad gets nothing, which to me is an extension of the fact that he has thought of Toad as little more than a prop for Peach since 2001.

Again, not really a Toad supporter, but that's how it comes off to me.

Sakurai’s parents were killed by a Toad.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Why do people have different tastes and opinions?

 

[Shroob]

I think what people should be focusing on when it comes to Verg isn't the Pokemon.

It's the 2nd Square Enix rep.


He doesn't know who it is, and this info literally came out of the blue just a week or so ago, which is pretty ****ing huge if it's you-know-who.

 

[Zinith]

Captain Toad not being able to jump is NOT, I repeat NOT, the defining feature of his moveset. It's the mechanics of his levels and the style that define him. He can have a really bad recovery in Smash, but he'd still jump.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

G-G-GUYS??!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8eEBCmh33U

 

[DevaAshera]

OKAY, ALL CAPS TIME, HOW DID C. VIPER NOT GET IN SFV WHEN SHE WAS EVEN IN MARVEL VS. CAPCOM 3???

That's like, BIG. They pushed the hell out of her during Mahvel even, and now I don't even see her anymore.

Probably because, despite their pushing, she wasn't very popular with the fanbase.

I would prefer Captain Toad to vanilla Toad but I feel like Toad and Waluigi are two of the few characters Sakurai genuinely treats with disdain.

Not even a Captain Toad supporter per se, but being a stage cameo in New Donk? Not even an AT? Damn.

How? If Sakurai didn't like them, they would either be only normal trophies or not in the game at all.

 

[GunBlaze]

Why doesn't SmashBoards load any images for Lubuntu users tho?

 

[Noipoi]

Honestly, I have a feeling every Pokémon rumor will be destroyed when the game comes out, as none of the Pokémon these "leakers" suggest will come will actually arrive. Seriously, if we get perhaps Kommo-o or Pheromosa, people would freak.

Incineroar & Decidueye? My secondary list needs a few more!

Kommo-o would be radical, and it'd give us an actual dragon type fighter (screw you Charizard! Just kidding I love you.).

 

[MBRedboy31]

I mean if I recall correctly Olimar couldn't jump, nor villager, and for little MAC they even made his lack of air experience a gameplay factor

One thing people always forget is that Olimar can jump in Pikmin 3 to get on and off moving lily pad platforms (and it isnt’t a tiny little hop either, it’s a pretty substantial leap.)

Anyway though, for Captain Toad, they theoretically could just hand wave away him being able to jump by saying he doesn’t have as much stuff in his backpack, if they really want to (there’s a quote in one of the Galaxy games that claims that Captain Toad can jump, anyway.) His jumping ability would still be bad either way, like how the Blue Toad in 3D World is bad at jumping. But, I can definitely also see how that can be considered out of character (being a character saddled with no jumping gameplay in Mario, a series with jumping as a heavy focus, makes that trait have a pretty substantial focus.)

Really though, it all depends on what Sakurai thinks about Captain Toad’s moveset potential (and his decision may very well not have to do with the whole jumping thing, there’s a multitude of factors to consider with every decision.)

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Why do people have different tastes and opinions?

Cause we started building a really tall as tower or something.

No... no wait that was language

 

[Iridium]

Eh, I guess they just don't always follow logic or physics. Like how Link can beat Ganondorf with a bottle, those levels of dumb.

Chances are this won't get too much attention from Sakurai, though.

 

[Giveaway412]

Alright, fighter talk: Does anybody here, really, really want Excitebiker?

Spoiler: Title Card

I honestly can't really explain why, as I've never ever even played Excitebike. However, the game is somewhat iconic, and the idea of someone's moveset revolving around them riding a motorcycle just seems absolutely thrilling to me. Like Duck Hunt, to me it seems like a simple, retro concept that's absolutely perfect for Smash. I'm kinda sad because it seems like there's a genuine chance there won't be a new retro rep in Smash Ultimate.

Someone made a cool fan concept for him here.

 

[SebasSancy]

Why do people have different tastes and opinions?

free will bro. I don't get it either

 

[Will]

Finally decided to make a mishmash of my crazy stupid "prediction".

i forgot a pokemon i'll talk about that later

Spoiler: obligatory explanation of everyone

Newcomers
Geno, Isaac, and Paper Mario really need no introduction. They've been some of the biggest Smash requests for almost a decade's worth now. I'm confident enough to say that all three of them have a plausible shot to finally make their way.

Skull Kid isn't because of muh chairs, it's solely for the MIA Assist and the fact that the Moon is now an Assist trophy. Skull Kid is associated heavily with the moon, his lack of appearance or even not making him use the moon is mega suspicious. Also I have a gut feeling that the whole strew of villain slideshows will continue past K. Rool, starting with the same reel including K. Rool.

Porky is the most unique main antagonist you could grab out of Mother. His spider mech (or configured bed mech if you so choose) allows him to use way more diverse attacks that aren't on the same level of Giy "how the **** do we use this still NES sprite" gas and Claus. Also villainy or something.

I'm still confident on Mach Rider because of the rifle used by Sakurai. Geno's hand gun only has the barrel to take note of or can just base off of his Wii U costume and refine upon it. To create an entirely new rifle for something (which we haven't seen for an item yet), Mach Rider is still up there IMO since the rifles have similar builds to them.

Chorus Kids were alluded to by Gematsu and files in the game itself show a Rhythm Heaven character was playable. Chrom was also in the same boat before getting cut in 4 and he finally showed up. Perhaps it'll be a convenient time to revive him, not for the sake of polls, but just because now he can.

Rayman is the go-to choice for Ubisoft rep, first choice, not even a ****ing question. He does have history with Nintendo and Ubisoft had always gotten Nintendo's back, even in the Great Depression Wii U era they still had them. Since they're collaborating more, I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up.

Finally, Steve. You probably already know my stance on him. In the distant year of 2015, I always had the belief that Geno wasn't going to be in the game as long as Cloud existed. And then Cloud got in the game, and now I think Geno's ready. I have the same stance on Steve. Banjo is equal to him I believe in pretty much every aspect and is really just a Boomer VS Zoomer ordeal, but I think Steve edges out on this one. Sorry.

I FORGOT INCINEROAR ****
Yeah he's the most likely I believe, easy to base off of from concept art and as much as I love Buzzwole starters get the most attention.

Echoes
They're Newcomers too but they deserve their own time.

Dixie Kong is an easy model copy/paste with a bit more adjustments to the hair and whatnot. And since we don't see Diddy using his tail as often, it makes a new boundary for Dixie to shine. Donkey Kong's recovery can be used instead of Diddy's, but make the hitbox smaller. Young Link and Toon Link have a different effect from regular Link where the sword swings of their recovery swing in and hit constantly every time, while Link's isn't. The same can apply to Dixie to make her slightly different.

Shadow is MIA, an easy as heck model swap because his model is already in the previous games and it can be applied almost immediately after a few cosmetic touch-ups to make him more Shadow-y. I'd say this takes the least amount of effort out of any Echo in the game possible. Make his recovery Mewtwo's teleport and call it a night

Ken is the OG Echo, the OG Clone charater. I feel like Ken can be a simplified Ryu; one where he doesn't require any inputs and all of his attacks are balanced out rather than the weak basic and strong input command Ryu. Also fire, that's a thing. I think the only real differences come in Final Smashes and the animation for the Focus Strike.

I wasn't considering Felix at first, but after the Simon/Richter incident, I completely expect Isaac to get another buddy to flesh out Golden Sun a tiny bit more. I originally intended to put in Matthew and then I realized "wait they look the exact same". No real reason why he needs a placement, he just can.

Bottom Row
The bottom row is what I expect to come out of DLC characters in the future.

I'll be honest, I don't expect Elma to appear anymore in the base game. Maybe because I'm not very confident in her ballot results, or maybe it's because of Xenoblade 2 possibly overshadowing her and Sakurai wanted to wait. But I believe both her and Rex/Pyra will appear simultaneously to give Xenoblade some more representation. Rex and Pyra are a given considering how Sakurai loves the game and the characters themselves.

Spring Man from ARMS, if it was made noticed and developed early, was probably going to be in the base game, not gonna lie. Even if ARMS didn't sell amazingly well, the potential of the character and his gimmick being fluid range (as opposed to Simon and Richter's fixed range) could open up for opportunities.

Fire Emblem will probably get a new character. It's inevitable. Is it Zelgius? Is it Hector? Is it Edelgard for the ad slot #3? Who ****ing knows, anything could happen when this series tries to show its face and not get crucified.

Banjo, as much as I make my arguments against him, is probably going to be in one way or the other. I don't believe he'll get in through base, but I do believe DLC is an easy ticket. I'm not gonna call it a shoo-in, I'm gonna call it a complementary afterthought after the game was said and done.

Ayumi could be a substitute for a Phoenix Wright-based character if Sakurai cannot get the licensing or just wants to show off his weird fetish for older titles. I know with Mach Rider it'd make two retro characters which may be deemed unnecessary or just weird, but there hasn't been a real detective character yet and you this schoolgirl is certainly the biggest crowd caller for its own company.

Travis Touchdown. No More Heroes 3. Ubisoft. You get the point.

I also have a select pair of Echoes underneath them. I have this idea that they might release Echoes in series packs, like they select a certain series and they get certain stuff out of it (Mii Costumes, maybe a stage, new tracks, and Echo Fighters).

Ninten (Ness) and Giygas (Mewtwo) bump Mother up to a whopping 5 characters in my roster, but since it's DLC and such worthless effort it probably doesn't matter since it's optional, it's a doable love letter to the series.

I don't believe Black Shadow would be in base, hell I'd be surprised if he even showed up at all. But through DLC, Black Shadow's resurgence of somewhat popularity may have come a tad late for the base game, but I can easily see him show up as Falcon's Echo fighter.

Impa is most people's next best bet for a Zelda character, which is understandable if they doubt Skull Kid. I doubt that she'll be in the game, but through DLC she will probably get notified for her sizeable supporters and become a Sheik Echo. And then Hilda is just piss easy.

Yeah I think that's enough to talk about. Maybe I'm smart maybe I'm stupid, who knows. I got about 3 months before I get nuked.