Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

Since the cinematics can take a considerable amount of time, do you guys think the remaining (2? 4? 6? 8?) unique newcomers will have cinematics like Simon/Ridley/K.Rool?

Every unique newcomer from Smash 4 and Ultimate (except for the first ones, Villager and Inkling) has gotten a CGI trailer to date, even Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt. Only the DLC characters were left out...

 

[Luigi The President]

Have never been more scared of a Nintendo broadcast on indies in my life.

 

[ZephyrZ]

he made it. rodin is something that is too strong to show up. dont think people really want a raid boss from Bayonetta who is many times her strength in the game.

still hoping for baldr tho.

I don't think that would be an issue, Smash never cared about keeping power scales accurate. I think its mostly that they didn't think that having him as a fighter was at all neccesary.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Aw yeah! Mystic Melody!

Magic Gloves as a command grab with an invisible and surprisingly large hitbox that turns the enemy into a throwable item, definitively what Sonic needs in his moveset to be balanced

 

[SonicMario]

I was always okay with those "samey" ball attacks because to me it harkened back to Genesis era Sonic. I feel like Samurai would have done that even if Sonic was there from day one.

Yeah now that we know that Sonic was at one time in Brawl's project plan until Sega said no at first. While they certainly probably had to cut corners to rush Sonic in, I'm certain for the most part Sakurai's plan for Sonic probably still made it in some fashion. I don't think it's very likely Sakurai went like "Oh man, I had this totally unique and super cool moveset that I had to trash forever because Sega said no. And I barely have enough memory of what I originally had now that they changed their mind! Oh well, time to make most of his attacks spinning into a ball!".

At this point, if there was stuff Sakurai really couldn't put for Sonic with what limited time he had during Brawl. He's now had 2 chances now that he's had Sonic licensed from the get go for two (Or even 3 if the 3DS game also had to be somewhat licensed) games in a row. He's certainly made some changes that differ from Brawl since then, but the core of how he plays generally remained the same. The main thing is he got pretty heavily buffed. Brawl Sonic barely had any kill moves, while Smash 4 certainly had more options. (Though I don't care how good or bad he is competitively, I'm playing Sonic more then anybody no matter who joins... well there is one exception. But that would be Tails simply because he's my favorite Sonic character. I'd still play Sonic the 2nd most times if Tails made it of course though.)

 

[Deleted member]

He's going to attempt a dramatic Waft finish....on Incineroar.
Who lights him up in a megaton explosion.

*Pokémafia and Mario Mafia flashbacks*

I mean, that's what they did with Brawl. But it would just be super inconsistent to have all these cinematic trailers and then suddenly "oh yeah btw, Geno is in the game"

The sheer unexpectedness of a character being revealed casually like that sounded like fun back in Brawl speculation.

 

[Noipoi]

Have never been more scared of a Nintendo broadcast on indies in my life.

SANS HAS A BONE TO PICK!
HAT KID TIMES IN!
SHOVEL KNIGHT IS AN ASSIST TROPHY!

 

[Starbound]

If we're thinking Dixie can have DK's Up B to be a Diddy echo, then I'm wondering if Tails could be a Sonic echo by stealing the same move? Heck, you wouldn't even need to do that to appear canonical as Tails does use spring pads but the DK Up Special would at least attempt to incorporate Tails' flight. We also know they are willing to reanimate attacks, which means Tails' tails can be shown off in the Smash attacks like they are in Sonic. And other than the tails, Sonic and Tails are pretty similar in build. Not 1:1 like Sonic and Shadow, but the differences aren't substantial. Tails is shorter (only by 6 inches in Sonic canon, which doesn't mean much of anything in Smash), and echoes can be a bit shorter in terms of a model (see Lucina and Daisy).

idk, I think it'd be funner to see Tails instead of Shad-ow the edge-hog. No offense to Shadow fans.

I feel like Tails was also a higher ballot pick than Shadow given that Tails got a Mii Costume (for a gunner no less, which could've fit Shadow perfectly), while Shadow got nothing.

 

[SmashingXan2]

Since the cinematics can take a considerable amount of time, do you guys think the remaining (2? 4? 6? 8?) unique newcomers will have cinematics like Simon/Ridley/K.Rool?

Wii U did, no reason Ultimate wont

 

[Luigi The President]

SANS HAS A BONE TO PICK!
HAT KID TIMES IN!
SHOVEL KNIGHT IS AN ASSIST TROPHY!

Everything hurts

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Every unique newcomer from Smash 4 and Ultimate (except for the first ones, Villager and Inkling) has gotten a CGI trailer to date, even Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt. Only the DLC characters were left out...

They got a trailer too. Roy, Mewtwo, Ryu, Lucas, Bayonetta, Cloud, and Corrin all had them. Though they were a bit lesser, somewhat like the small trailers the various characters have in Ultimate. Not like Ridley's major trailer or anything. It's like right between them. You could also compare it to Sonic's trailer in Brawl, which wasn't nearly as big like the ones in Ultimate or even ones like Robin/Lucina's.

 

[Delzethin]

While the Pokemon anime is incredibly well scheduled, I highly, highly doubt this episode even written by the time the project plan started for Ultimate.

Well, of course this episode in particular wouldn't have factored into Ultimate. What it is doing is pointing further toward who has the lead role in the anime for this region, and that is something they'd have had planned out very early. And since plans for Greninja being Ash's ace for Kalos probably factored into Greninja getting the nod for Smash 4, it's something we should keep an eye on.

Especially now that some people are going around, saying that Ash's Torracat must be about to evolve and usurp the lead role because they've decided it has to be happening. Except that isn't what's going on at all, there's no evidence pointing toward it, but the idea's been spreading anyway because...I don't know.

This is just one of several ways I'm trying to stem the spread of misinformation and mistaken assumptions. Speaking of which, did you know the Black Knight hasn't ever been in the background of Castle Siege? It's always been a generic enemy General the whole time!

 

[SonicMario]

If we're thinking Dixie can have DK's Up B to be a Diddy echo, then I'm wondering if Tails could be a Sonic echo by stealing the same move? Heck, you wouldn't even need to do that to appear canonical as Tails does use spring pads but the DK Up Special would at least attempt to incorporate Tails' flight. We also know they are willing to reanimate attacks, which means Tails' tails can be shown off in the Smash attacks like they are in Sonic. And other than the tails, Sonic and Tails are pretty similar in build. Not 1:1 like Sonic and Shadow, but the differences aren't substantial. Tails is shorter (only by 6 inches in Sonic canon, which doesn't mean much of anything in Smash), and echoes can be a bit shorter in terms of a model (see Lucina and Daisy).

idk, I think it'd be funner to see Tails instead of Shad-ow the edge-hog. No offense to Shadow fans.

I feel like Tails was also a higher ballot pick than Shadow given that Tails got a Mii Costume (for a gunner no less, which could've fit Shadow perfectly), while Shadow got nothing.

As long as Tails is in I wouldn't mind this. But I'm keeping expectations low and expecting Shadow. I'll admittedly be crossing my fingers the moment they possibly show Green Hill Zone or Windy Hill as the background in the next direct's echo showcase. But I am fully expecting Shadow to teleport in and I sigh and say "Welp, should've figured..."

But if it's Tails I will be screaming (in a good way) and jumping out of sheer happiness even if he is an echo.

 

[Zinith]

Man, still can't believe that whole Boshi fiasco...

 

[Luigi The President]

If we're thinking Dixie can have DK's Up B to be a Diddy echo, then I'm wondering if Tails could be a Sonic echo by stealing the same move? Heck, you wouldn't even need to do that to appear canonical as Tails does use spring pads but the DK Up Special would at least attempt to incorporate Tails' flight. We also know they are willing to reanimate attacks, which means Tails' tails can be shown off in the Smash attacks like they are in Sonic. And other than the tails, Sonic and Tails are pretty similar in build. Not 1:1 like Sonic and Shadow, but the differences aren't substantial. Tails is shorter (only by 6 inches in Sonic canon, which doesn't mean much of anything in Smash), and echoes can be a bit shorter in terms of a model (see Lucina and Daisy).

idk, I think it'd be funner to see Tails instead of Shad-ow the edge-hog. No offense to Shadow fans.

I feel like Tails was also a higher ballot pick than Shadow given that Tails got a Mii Costume (for a gunner no less, which could've fit Shadow perfectly), while Shadow got nothing.

Was the Flying Man a Ballot frontrunner? No? Then why'd he get a costume?
Don't mean to be rude at all, and I think Tails is great, but can we stop with this argument?
K. Rool got a costume. A few other characters we see as frontrunners got a costume.
That doesn't mean a random monkey is a frontrunner. Doesn't mean Dunban is.
So, why does it mean Tails was higher than the Ballot?

Man, still can't believe that whole Boshi fiasco...

What happened with the Boshter?

 

[Noipoi]

Well, of course this episode in particular wouldn't have factored into Ultimate. What it is doing is pointing further toward who has the lead role in the anime for this region, and that is something they'd have had planned out very early. And since plans for Greninja being Ash's ace for Kalos probably factored into Greninja getting the nod for Smash 4, it's something we should keep an eye on.

Especially now that some people are going around, saying that Ash's Torracat must be about to evolve and usurp the lead role because they've decided it has to be happening. Except that isn't what's going on at all, but the idea's been spreading anyway because...I don't know.

This is just one of several ways I'm trying to stem the spread of misinformation and mistaken assumptions. Speaking of which, did you know the Black Knight hasn't ever been in the background of Castle Siege? It's always been a generic enemy General the whole time!

Didn't Sakurai pick Greninja himself from concept art presented to him?
If so, I don't think Gamefreak said "Hey I know we said you could pick, but they're planning an anime arc around the frog so pick Greninja please."

 

[Darkraid]

We get gen 7 starter and it's not decidueye nor incineroar.

Spoiler

Even worse: A male Primarina

 

[Noipoi]

Even worse: A male Primarina

So 70 percent of them?

 

[Zinith]

What happened with the Boshter?

A Youtuber (who actually has an account here btw) was debunking the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak and he was reading a Reddit post that threw Boshi into the lot of Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach. Everyone assumed that was an attack on me personally as there really wasn't any leaks mentioning Boshi...

 

[KMDP]

Magic Gloves as a command grab with an invisible and surprisingly large hitbox that turns the enemy into a throwable item, definitively what Sonic needs in his moveset to be balanced

Magic Gloves, you say?

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

 

[Idon]

So 70 percent of them?

Not if you soft reset

 

[Luigi The President]

A Youtuber (who actually has an account here btw) was debunking the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak and he was reading a Reddit post that threw Boshi into the lot of Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach. Everyone assumed that was an attack on me personally as there really wasn't any leaks mentioning Boshi...

I will personally fight them. With my bear hands. I got them from a bear in the woods. This ones for you Zin.

 

[Darkraid]

I wonder, does Zoroark work as Lucario echo?

Also i think currently now Isaac has better chances than BWD as Daddy Sakurai outright teased him with a pic.

 

[Deleted member]

Even better: A male Primarina

I fixed it for you

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Every unique newcomer from Smash 4 and Ultimate (except for the first ones, Villager and Inkling) has gotten a CGI trailer to date, even Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt. Only the DLC characters were left out...

Ryu has gameplay cgi...so that kinda counts

 

[Luigi The President]

I wonder, does Zoroark work as Lucario echo?

Also i think currently now Isaac has better chances than BWD as Daddy Sakurai outright teased him with a pic.

Not in the slightest @ Zoroark.
I'm not sure why it matters when both are probably the two most likely first parties, on Isaac and BD. (...Paper Mario is third fight me)

(maybe not third but like top five)
(i mean cmon now)
( :") )

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder, does Zoroark work as Lucario echo?

Also i think currently now Isaac has better chances than BWD as Daddy Sakurai outright teased him with a pic.

Zoroark was already deconfirmed though I do think she would work if Side B was altered.

 

[SonicMario]

Was the Flying Man a Ballot frontrunner? No? Then why'd he get a costume?
Don't mean to be rude at all, and I think Tails is great, but can we stop with this argument?
K. Rool got a costume. A few other characters we see as frontrunners got a costume.
That doesn't mean a random monkey is a frontrunner. Doesn't mean Dunban is.
So, why does it mean Tails was higher than the Ballot?

Yeah doesn't necessarily mean Tails was higher. It could just be for some reason they didn't want to make a Shadow costume for whatever reason (Even though he may technically made more sense to be a gunner given his own game. But maybe they want to bury that game as much as possible. Wouldn't really blame them if that were the case). I still think it's at least WEIRD Shadow didn't get a costume, especially if he was indeed the highest voted Sonic character (And it's not like other Assist Trophies didn't get mii costumes. Takamaru and Ashley for example), but I know by itself it isn't proof that Tails is more likely.

Still, Knuckles got a pretty good upgrade to a neat and rather complex Assist Trophy. I just hope Tails gets something at least on Knuckles calibre, or even if he gets nothing base-game wise then something to happen in DLC. I'll be kinda pissed if Knuckles and Shadow got some significant upgrade but Tails does not. I'd even take Tails being a 2nd Sonic Assist trophy as much as it'd hurt at first. It'd still be something.

 

[WingedSupernova]

SANS HAS A BONE TO PICK!
HAT KID TIMES IN!
SHOVEL KNIGHT IS AN ASSIST TROPHY!

Lowkey tho Hat Kid would be awesome to play as in a platform fighter like Smash.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Well, of course this episode in particular wouldn't have factored into Ultimate. What it is doing is pointing further toward who has the lead role in the anime for this region, and that is something they'd have had planned out very early. And since plans for Greninja being Ash's ace for Kalos probably factored into Greninja getting the nod for Smash 4, it's something we should keep an eye on.

Especially now that some people are going around, saying that Ash's Torracat must be about to evolve and usurp the lead role because they've decided it has to be happening. Except that isn't what's going on at all, but the idea's been spreading anyway because...I don't know.

This is just one of several ways I'm trying to stem the spread of misinformation and mistaken assumptions. Speaking of which, did you know the Black Knight hasn't ever been in the background of Castle Siege? It's always been a generic enemy General the whole time!

I'm not trying to get the entire Lycanroc fanbase to jump on me. Even if they planned for Lycanroc to be heavily featured in late 2015, that doesn't mean it's the only Pokemon being given attention, and there's far more aspects that I personally believe go against his inclusion than for, with Sakurai stating very recently the ballot is his main way of selecting characters this game, which Lycanroc for obvious reasons was not part of. The only inclusion I see being made with or without the Ballot was Inkling, which at the time of the project plan was the star of a brand new major Nintendo IP.

I think the only real chance Lycanroc has is being put into that promotional spot ala Greninja, and even then he has more than one competitor, and also even moreso his concept and design doesn't immediately strike a chord like some other potential characters like Incineroar or Decidueye who have very obvious quirks, just like Greninja did. (Yes, I'm sure you and others have created interesting movesets for him, that's not my argument)

Again, I'm not saying Lycanroc is impossible, but I personally believe there are many upon many more stacks of reasons against his inclusion than for. All I can see for his inclusion is promotional reasons.

 

[Delzethin]

Didn't Sakurai pick Greninja himself from concept art presented to him?
If so, I don't think Gamefreak said "Hey I know we said you could pick, but they're planning an anime arc around the frog so pick Greninja please."

TPC sent art assets and other details to the Smash team's inner circle for Greninja, and probably a few other 'mons because from a designer's standpoint, you'd want to have more than one option. Then they spent a while deciding who would be the most compelling new addition. This is where Sakurai famously made a rough draft character concept for Greninja in one night--the common narrative is that it must've happened after Greninja was already chosen, but it actually happened before.

The anime probably wasn't the sole deciding factor, but odds are it was among the factors, along with Greninja having high moveset potential since most Pokémon candidates do, and unique abilities since the roster no longer had a waterbender.

 

[Ignoritus]

Especially now that some people are going around, saying that Ash's Torracat must be about to evolve and usurp the lead role because they've decided it has to be happening. Except that isn't what's going on at all, there's no evidence pointing toward it, but the idea's been spreading anyway because...I don't know.

Spoiler: S/M Anime Leak Spoilers

This is actually something we've had a very good reason to believe since before the anime began. When Decidueye/Incineroar/Primarina were leaked prior to the release of Sun and Moon what ultimately confirmed the legitimacy of the leaks was Mallow appearing in the leaked concept art prior to her reveal. The leaked concept art showed Mallow and Ash playing with Incineroar, which suggests that it was intended from the getgo for Ash to have an Incineroar in the anime. This isn't definitive 100% proof, but it's a very good reason to believe his Torracat will be evolving.

 

[Deleted member]

-looks at the whole "the anime is clearly showing Lycanroc as this big deal because of a mural" thing-

-notices a certain other Pokémon that isn't Ash's-
Welp, this is our fighter from Alola, everyone.

Say something nice to him.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah doesn't necessarily mean Tails was higher. It could just be for some reason they didn't want to make a Shadow costume for whatever reason (Even though he may technically made more sense to be a gunner given his own game. But maybe they want to bury that game as much as possible. Wouldn't really blame them if that were the case). I still think it's at least WEIRD Shadow didn't get a costume, especially if he was indeed the highest voted Sonic character (And it's not like other Assist Trophies didn't get mii costumes. Takamaru and Ashley for example), but I know by itself it isn't proof that Tails is more likely.

Still, Knuckles got a pretty good upgrade to a neat and rather complex Assist Trophy. I just hope Tails gets something at least on Knuckles calibre, or even if he gets nothing base-game wise then something to happen in DLC. I'll be kinda pissed if Knuckles and Shadow got some significant upgrade but Tails does not. I'd even take Tails being a 2nd Sonic Assist trophy as much as it'd hurt at first. It'd still be something.

Thank you for understanding my POV, friend!

Knuckles is one of my favorite characters so I'm happy about the AT, but I do have a soft spot for Tails, so I'd like to see him perhaps upgraded to an AT as well.

 

[Nethermoosen]

A Youtuber (who actually has an account here btw) was debunking the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak and he was reading a Reddit post that threw Boshi into the lot of Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach. Everyone assumed that was an attack on me personally as there really wasn't any leaks mentioning Boshi...

An attack on my boi? Point me in a direction. I will devastate their bank account and impair their social lives LONG before they die from contact with a poison dart frog that “accidentally escaped captivity.”

 

[Idon]

-looks at the whole "the anime is clearly showing Lycanroc as this big deal because of a mural" thing-

-notices a certain other Pokémon that isn't Ash's-
Welp, this is our fighter from Alola, everyone.

Say something nice to him.

I only got one thing to say

 

[Deleted member]

Greninja only got heavily promoted because they knew it'd be featured in Smash, not the other way around.

Also, I may not be a Lycanroc fan but saying its moveset wouldn't be interesting is bull**** when you only have so many bmfighters on all fours and none of them are as fast as Midday Lycanroc would be. And that's not even to mention whatever rock moves they could implement but go off I guess.

 

[Noipoi]

-looks at the whole "the anime is clearly showing Lycanroc as this big deal because of a mural" thing-

-notices a certain other Pokémon that isn't Ash's-
Welp, this is our fighter from Alola, everyone.

Say something nice to him.

He'd be a cool addition, no bones about it.
Anyone fighting against him would be boned.
Tibia honest he might even be top tier.
The thought of Alolan Marowak taking down Bayonetta is quite humerus.
In fact, it tickles my funny bone.

Spoiler

Seriously though, Alolan Marowak would be cool, bone chilling even.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Greninja only got heavily promoted because they knew it'd be featured in Smash, not the other way around.

Also, I may not be a Lycanroc fan but saying its moveset wouldn't be interesting is bull**** when you only have so many bmfighters on all fours and none of them are as fast as Midday Lycanroc would be. And that's not even to mention whatever rock moves they could implement but go off I guess.

I don't know if this was directed at me but I never said Lycanroc couldn't have an interesting moveset. I actually mentioned I'm sure people have made interesting movesets for him.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

A Youtuber (who actually has an account here btw) was debunking the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak and he was reading a Reddit post that threw Boshi into the lot of Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach. Everyone assumed that was an attack on me personally as there really wasn't any leaks mentioning Boshi...

Damn... that's awkward... do you have a link to this vid btw? Just curious.

An attack on my boi? Point me in a direction. I will devastate their bank account and impair their social lives LONG before they die from contact with a poison dart frog that “accidentally escaped captivity.”

I will personally fight them. With my bear hands. I got them from a bear in the woods. This ones for you Zin.

I very much like your approach on this sirs. May we form a party and hunt down those pesky Boshi detractors?