Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nethermoosen]

Greninja only got heavily promoted because they knew it'd be featured in Smash, not the other way around.

Also, I may not be a Lycanroc fan but saying its moveset wouldn't be interesting is bull**** when you only have so many bmfighters on all fours and none of them are as fast as Midday Lycanroc would be. And that's not even to mention whatever rock moves they could implement but go off I guess.

Maybe bring back Rock smash?

 

[Luigi The President]

Sure, I ended up writing this gigantic essay to my friend detailing my reasoning this past weekend. However, it is quite long, so I'll include it anyway but I'll also provide a tl;dr for the sake of brevity:

• Vergeben's leak against Lycanroc is a pretty large blow to him, but its not an end-all be-all death sentence against Lycanroc
• Loz's screenshot where he publically disagreed with some of Vergeben's claims could have very well been against his ideas on Pokemon
• Ash's Lycanroc has been his ace for Alola thus far, being his strongest battler and a large focus of Ash's journey
• The theory that Torracat will take over Lycanroc's spot as team ace once it evolves into Incineroar is becoming unlikely as the Sun and Moon anime enters its final few arcs
• Lycanroc's dog-like fighting style and geokinesis may appeal to Sakurai's desire to have unique characters on the roster.
• Much of Incineroar's gimmick as Smash's first wrestler is already occupied by Bowser and King K. Rool.

Spoiler

The first, and most obvious, thing I need to address is Vergeben’s leak. Yes, Vergeben said that Lycanroc is not in the game and Incineroar is. This is easily the most compelling evidence against Lycanroc and for Incineroar. Vergeben has had a solid record thus far, predicting outlandish characters like Simon and Ridley. However, Vergeben is not a perfect source for information, even on games where he has a solid track record (Raditz and Zarbon say hi). I also think it’s odd Vergeben would deliver a leak this way when he’s been so up front about what characters are in the game before. Why would Vergeben do a complete 180 and start making claims like “x, y, z are not in the game” when claims like “w is in the game” have been his way of delivering information up until now? Thusly, I think there’s a discussion to be had even with Vergeben throwing his hat into the ring. Especially considering there’s a leaker with equal credibly who may disagree with him...

Loz posted a screenshot before the direct of Vergeben messaging him to verify some claims, with Loz stating some of the claims were wrong. The 4 claims Vergeben made in this leak were: Simon is in the game, Isabelle is in the game, Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc are not the Gen 7 Pokemon, and there’s no new DK characters on the base roster (a claim Vergeben himself was not sure of, as he notes). Obviously, the Simon claim was true, so that couldn’t be the section of the leak that Loz disagreed with. Likewise, we know the claim of no new Donkey Kong characters is false, but Vergeben was always very iffy on that idea to begin with, so it’s unlikely Loz would have to publicly call it out as false. That leaves two claims left that could be false, Isabelle being a fighter and Decidueye/Mimikyu/Lycanroc not being fighters. Isabelle strikes me as a near certainty at this point, she’s popular, she’s practically the new face of Animal Crossing when it comes to things like spinoffs (Mario Kart, Amiibo Festival, and Pocket Camp all had Isabelle at the forefront.), her assist trophy is mysteriously absent, and she would be an easy Villager echo. All this points towards Loz possibly disagreeing with Vergeben’s statement of Decidueye or Lycanroc not being in the game (given how Mimikyu is deconfirmed). Disregarding all this discussion over leaks, I still think there’s a lot of practical evidence that hints to Lycanroc over Incineroar.

The most prominent piece of evidence in favour of Lycanroc is his role as Ash’s ace in the anime, similar to Charizard and Greninja. Lycanroc is often Ash’s Pokemon of choice whenever an important battle is about to begin and he has a fairly solid win record. Additionally, Lycanroc’s achievements (such as learning new moves) are often held up as a large deal. I think the arc that best emphasizes this is Ash’s recent battles against Nanu. He was only allowed to bring one Pokemon, and he chose his Lycanroc, showing the dependability and leadership he has over Rowlet, Torracat, and Poipole. He also learned Stone Edge, mastered his feral, red-eyed state, and learned Counter in the middle of his final battle against Nanu, all of which were treated as major feats and achievements for the duo.

A common counterpoint against this is the theory that Ash’s Torracat will evolve and become the new ace of his Alola team. The common piece of evidence to support this idea is Incineroar’s concept art, which shows a sketch of an Incineroar laying near Ash in the bottom right corner. While this realistically could be Professor Kukui’s Incineroar, or a random Incineroar, let’s say this is undeniable proof that Torracat will evolve into Incineroar for the sake of argument. The question then becomes, when is he going to evolve? The anime is currently setting groundwork for an arc about Solgaleo, Lunala, and Ultra Necrozma and an arc about Minna. The anime will also probably have an additional arc with Hapu (or whoever her stand-in is), a few adventures around school and hunting Ultra Beasts, and the inevitable Alolan League arc. Even if Torracat evolves right at the start of this new arc in episode 88, the time for Incineroar to shine as Ash’s main Pokemon is extremely limited. Contrast this with Ash’s Lycanroc, which evolved from Rockruff in episode 38 and took lead of the party shortly after. It would be strange for Game Freak to spend 50 episodes building a Pokemon up, only to discard them.

Lycanroc’s uniqueness is also a large point in its corner. Sakurai has said before that a character being unique and breaking new group is important for a non-echo newcomer. Lycanroc has 2 major factors in its favour: its feral, quadruped fighting style and its earth-based power set. Thus far, we only have 2 quadruped characters in Smash: Ivysaur and Duck Hunt. The former of which uses their vines as arms and the later of which has the duck assist him in his attacks and is rather cartoony. Lycanroc would be quite feral and animalistic, being bound to all fours. Lycanroc would be quite feral and animalistic, being bound to all fours and fighting with bites, slashes, and tackles. One of the biggest concerns over Lycanroc’s possible inclusion is how a quadruped character would wield items without any assistance. I personally don’t think this is a huge deal. Lycanroc could easily hold, swing, and use single hand items such as the Beam Sword or Killing Edge with its mouth. Likewise, heavy items such as crates and party balls could be held and thrown using its back. The biggest issue is the Super Scope, as many figure it needs two hands to hold and shoot. However, Smash has taken a lot of creative liberty with the Super Scope before (Wario holds the front of the super scope and shakes it back and forward to shoot it, for example) so having Lycanroc use the Super Scope isn’t too out there. There’s also geokinesis of Lycanroc that would be unique. Thus far, we have yet to see a character utilize rocks or the ground in their moveset, so Lycanroc would be breaking new thematic ground. Lycanroc’s rock type also gives it access to unique moves which haven’t been seen in Smash yet, such as Stone Edge, Rock Throw, Rock Climb, Drill Run, Stealth Rock, and Accelerock.

Incineroar is slightly more rough for wear in this category. The most common idea for Incineroar is to have him emulate the wrestler archetype found in many fighting games, similar to how Little Mac emulates the fighting style of real world boxers. However, there’s one big problem in the way of Incineroar, Bowser. Bowser is a heavy character with super armour, powerful attacks, a drop kick, and a pile driver command grab, he’s really one lariat away from being a full blown wrestler. Likewise, King K. Rool also has a few wrestler moves, such as his drop kick f-air and back breaking up-throw (although K. Rool takes more from Sumo Wrestlers than Western wrestlers). Sakurai has stated he does not like to have characters that reuse ideas that pre-existing characters already have, which puts Incineroar at a huge disadvantage, especially when we’ve already gotten a heavy weight character with wrestling moves in his moveset. The best case scenario to make Incineroar unique is to go all in with the “heel” idea, giving him moves such as hitting opponents with chairs or spitting in their eyes. However, then the character begins to stray too far from what Incineroar is in Pokemon. Incineroar is a dirty fighter, but he still has an aspect of a legitimate warrior, he isn’t a cheater who can’t confront others in a one-on-one fight. Contrasting this with Lycanroc, the closest character to Lycanroc’s play style is Wolf, but those two would immediately separate themselves due to one being a biped and the other being a quadruped. Incineroar also has a tough card in his fire element, the most common elemental ascetic in Smash. Lycanroc would be fully unique relative to the rest of the Smash roster in his geokinesis attacks.

I disagree with the "Loz is as credible as Vergeben" claim but.

GG. This is one of the best write-ups I have ever seen arguing for a Smash Ultimate character and even though I want Incineroar I wouldn't mind if Lycanroc got in over him just for your dedication. Amazing work.

Damn... that's awkward... do you have a link to this vid btw? Just curious.




I very much like your approach on this sirs. May we form a party and hunt down those pesky Boshi detractors?

We on patrol boys? Let's go.

 

[Starbound]

A Youtuber (who actually has an account here btw) was debunking the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak and he was reading a Reddit post that threw Boshi into the lot of Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach. Everyone assumed that was an attack on me personally as there really wasn't any leaks mentioning Boshi...

Well I feel like Boshi is about as likely as Pink Gold Peach

But I think they are both on a different level of likelihood than Goku/Shrek.

 

[Zinith]

Damn... that's awkward... do you have a link to this vid btw? Just curious.

For the record, I do not fault the YouTuber Billy, he was just reading off a post...

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know if this was directed at me but I never said Lycanroc couldn't have an interesting moveset. I actually mentioned I'm sure people have made interesting movesets for him.

Not anyone in specific, I just see a lot of "Lycanroc would be so BORING" type of comments around

Maybe bring back Rock smash?

Nah man, I wanna see Stealth Rocks and other rock-kinesis ****, that's the real hype.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Damn... that's awkward... do you have a link to this vid btw? Just curious.




I very much like your approach on this sirs. May we form a party and hunt down those pesky Boshi detractors?

Spoiler

[SPOILER/]

 

[Delzethin]

I'm not trying to get the entire Lycanroc fanbase to jump on me. Even if they planned for Lycanroc to be heavily featured in late 2015, that doesn't mean it's the only Pokemon being given attention, and there's far more aspects that I personally believe go against his inclusion than for, with Sakurai stating very recently the ballot is his main way of selecting characters this game, which Lycanroc for obvious reasons was not part of. The only inclusion I see being made with or without the Ballot was Inkling, which at the time of the project plan was the star of a brand new major Nintendo IP.

I think the only real chance Lycanroc has is being put into that promotional spot ala Greninja, and even then he has more than one competitor, and also even moreso his concept and design doesn't immediately strike a chord like some other potential characters like Incineroar or Decidueye who have very obvious quirks, just like Greninja did. (Yes, I'm sure you and others have created interesting movesets for him, that's not my argument)

Again, I'm not saying Lycanroc is impossible, but I personally believe there are many upon many more stacks of reasons against his inclusion than for. All I can see for his inclusion is promotional reasons.

I've heard about the Ballot statement. If that does end up holding true for every newcomer, then anyone from Gen 7 will be left waiting until DLC...and will only have a window of a year until Gen 8 takes the helm.

Though if you want obvious quirks, being a fusion of two contrasting personalities with a special berserk state that triggers under certain conditions certainly seems like it qualifies...

Spoiler: S/M Anime Leak Spoilers

This is actually something we've had a very good reason to believe since before the anime began. When Decidueye/Incineroar/Primarina were leaked prior to the release of Sun and Moon what ultimately confirmed the legitimacy of the leaks was Mallow appearing in the leaked concept art prior to her reveal. The leaked concept art showed Mallow and Ash playing with Incineroar, which suggests that it was intended from the getgo for Ash to have an Incineroar in the anime. This isn't definitive 100% proof, but it's a very good reason to believe his Torracat will be evolving.

Thing is...we don't know for sure that Incineroar in the drawing must be proof that Ash will get one. For all we know, it could just be a little drawing to show off the design. Or it could be Kukui's Incineroar, from when he's in his Masked Royal persona!

And even if Ash does end up with one, things aren't adding up for it to suddenly take the ace role. Seriously, back in Kalos, his Greninja slowly got built up as being important even when it was still a Froakie. His Lycanroc has had that same buildup this time around, while his now-Torracat has hardly done anything since evolving! And yet, much of the Smash community has assumed that his Torracat must be about to evolve and must be set to become his ace, ignoring the evidence that the ace is already someone else, because...I don't know.

Another case where speculators keep digging their heels in on the first thing they see above all else...

 

[NintenRob]

I'm still surprised Tapu Koko doesn't get talked more about

 

[DarthEnderX]

Fighting Alloys are the best Fighting Team

No way. Fighting Mii Team ftw. Dumb Smash OC teams can go in the trash with their dumb OC boss, Tabuu.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Not anyone in specific, I just see a lot of "Lycanroc would be so BORING" type of comments around

Nah man, I wanna see Stealth Rocks and other rock-kinesis ****, that's the real hype.

Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Stealth Rock and Rock Tomb?

 

[Momotsuki]

While I think Boshi would be a great addition, he's really as unlikely as you can get without being Goku.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm still surprised Tapu Koko doesn't get talked more about

No one cares about chicken god.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I've heard about the Ballot statement. If that does end up holding true for every newcomer, than Gen 7 as a whole will be left waiting until DLC...and will only have a year before Gen 8 shows up.

Though if you want obvious quirks, being a fusion of two contrasting personalities with a special berserk state that triggers under certain conditions seems like it qualifies...

If Lycanroc swapped between all of its forms that'd make it more interesting to me, though I still don't find it all that interesting personally. I don't think we're getting any Gen 7 Pokemon in the base game tbh.

 

[Luigi The President]

All I'm saying is when Nintendo buys the rights to the SMRPG characters y'all are gonna be bowing at Zin's feet.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't think we're getting any Gen 7 Pokemon in the base game tbh.

How dare you say that to me...

 

[Zinith]

All I'm saying is when Nintendo buys the rights to the SMRPG characters y'all are gonna be bowing at Zin's feet.

Not gonna lie, I'd be VERY uncomfortable with that...

 

[Momotsuki]

Square is never, EVER gonna use Geno, Mallow, Boshi, ect.. IDK why they don't just turn a quick buck and sell the rights to Ninty.

 

[SonicMario]

Thank you for understanding my POV, friend!

Knuckles is one of my favorite characters so I'm happy about the AT, but I do have a soft spot for Tails, so I'd like to see him perhaps upgraded to an AT as well.

I'll still hold out hope that even if Shadow is an echo. That Tails has a somewhat decent shot at DLC heh.

But I admit I'll be scared for a little while because until DLC happens it means Tails indeed gets nothing more until then. But regardless I do feel Tails will still be an option that would be profitable to get from the Sonic fans (And those neutral enough to get Tails anyway) who want more then just two variations of Sonic's moves that are barely different. And those who aren't fond of the idea of having 3 Sonic characters in their game can choose not to buy Tails if they can hardly stomach even having Shadow in the base game as an echo.

I know Sega might have other IPs they may want to choose instead, but I don't think it'd necessarily be a bad decision if they went with Tails. He harkens back to that old Melee april fools joke rumor that may have very well helped launch Sonic into Brawl in the first place. He'd still count as a somewhat long wanted and iconic character I feel amongst the Ultimate cast. Even if not as heavy as some of the others that have made it in at this point. I don't mean to stomp on others that want say... Arle from Puyo Puyo, a Yakuza character, or anything from ATLUS but if this game is going to continue to collect old favorites that weren't given much of a chance previously for understandable reasons, and with how expansive the 3rd party content is going to be compared to previous games (Who knew they'd be including certain 3rd parties just to be Assist Trophies like Bomberman and Shovel Knight were done? And we thought the Rayman Smash 4 trophy was strange).

But hey, Tails is just who I'd personally like most. I won't be mad if he doesn't make it, as I still have Sonic himself of course ^^

 

[DarthEnderX]

So there was a discussion of Black Shadow? I'd think he'd be a great addition for those who want to play as Melee's version of Ganondorf. Ganondorf is very different now from Falcon. Eslecially with sword Smash atracks. So Black Shadow being a stronger heavier Falcon would be fine.

Completely agree. I wish they would just finish decloning Ganondorf already and just let Black Shadow use the old Ganondorf moveset.

 

[Luigi The President]

Not gonna lie, I'd be VERY uncomfortable with that...

This shocks me considering the results I get when I see Yoshi in Google Images.

Square is never, EVER gonna use Geno, Mallow, Boshi, ect.. IDK why they don't just turn a quick buck and sell the rights to Ninty.

They're very...possessive. It's saddening.

 

[Nethermoosen]

No one cares about chicken god.

Spoiler

[SPOILER/]

 

[DarkFalcon]

How dare you say that to me...

I mean...Project plan in December 2015 and Sakurai saying he's using the ballot to choose newcomers has me 95% sure we aren't getting a promotional gen 7 rep in the base game.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Sure, I ended up writing this gigantic essay to my friend detailing my reasoning this past weekend. However, it is quite long, so I'll include it anyway but I'll also provide a tl;dr for the sake of brevity:

• Vergeben's leak against Lycanroc is a pretty large blow to him, but its not an end-all be-all death sentence against Lycanroc
• Loz's screenshot where he publically disagreed with some of Vergeben's claims could have very well been against his ideas on Pokemon
• Ash's Lycanroc has been his ace for Alola thus far, being his strongest battler and a large focus of Ash's journey
• The theory that Torracat will take over Lycanroc's spot as team ace once it evolves into Incineroar is becoming unlikely as the Sun and Moon anime enters its final few arcs
• Lycanroc's dog-like fighting style and geokinesis may appeal to Sakurai's desire to have unique characters on the roster.
• Much of Incineroar's gimmick as Smash's first wrestler is already occupied by Bowser and King K. Rool.

Spoiler

The first, and most obvious, thing I need to address is Vergeben’s leak. Yes, Vergeben said that Lycanroc is not in the game and Incineroar is. This is easily the most compelling evidence against Lycanroc and for Incineroar. Vergeben has had a solid record thus far, predicting outlandish characters like Simon and Ridley. However, Vergeben is not a perfect source for information, even on games where he has a solid track record (Raditz and Zarbon say hi). I also think it’s odd Vergeben would deliver a leak this way when he’s been so up front about what characters are in the game before. Why would Vergeben do a complete 180 and start making claims like “x, y, z are not in the game” when claims like “w is in the game” have been his way of delivering information up until now? Thusly, I think there’s a discussion to be had even with Vergeben throwing his hat into the ring. Especially considering there’s a leaker with equal credibly who may disagree with him...

Loz posted a screenshot before the direct of Vergeben messaging him to verify some claims, with Loz stating some of the claims were wrong. The 4 claims Vergeben made in this leak were: Simon is in the game, Isabelle is in the game, Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc are not the Gen 7 Pokemon, and there’s no new DK characters on the base roster (a claim Vergeben himself was not sure of, as he notes). Obviously, the Simon claim was true, so that couldn’t be the section of the leak that Loz disagreed with. Likewise, we know the claim of no new Donkey Kong characters is false, but Vergeben was always very iffy on that idea to begin with, so it’s unlikely Loz would have to publicly call it out as false. That leaves two claims left that could be false, Isabelle being a fighter and Decidueye/Mimikyu/Lycanroc not being fighters. Isabelle strikes me as a near certainty at this point, she’s popular, she’s practically the new face of Animal Crossing when it comes to things like spinoffs (Mario Kart, Amiibo Festival, and Pocket Camp all had Isabelle at the forefront.), her assist trophy is mysteriously absent, and she would be an easy Villager echo. All this points towards Loz possibly disagreeing with Vergeben’s statement of Decidueye or Lycanroc not being in the game (given how Mimikyu is deconfirmed). Disregarding all this discussion over leaks, I still think there’s a lot of practical evidence that hints to Lycanroc over Incineroar.

The most prominent piece of evidence in favour of Lycanroc is his role as Ash’s ace in the anime, similar to Charizard and Greninja. Lycanroc is often Ash’s Pokemon of choice whenever an important battle is about to begin and he has a fairly solid win record. Additionally, Lycanroc’s achievements (such as learning new moves) are often held up as a large deal. I think the arc that best emphasizes this is Ash’s recent battles against Nanu. He was only allowed to bring one Pokemon, and he chose his Lycanroc, showing the dependability and leadership he has over Rowlet, Torracat, and Poipole. He also learned Stone Edge, mastered his feral, red-eyed state, and learned Counter in the middle of his final battle against Nanu, all of which were treated as major feats and achievements for the duo.

A common counterpoint against this is the theory that Ash’s Torracat will evolve and become the new ace of his Alola team. The common piece of evidence to support this idea is Incineroar’s concept art, which shows a sketch of an Incineroar laying near Ash in the bottom right corner. While this realistically could be Professor Kukui’s Incineroar, or a random Incineroar, let’s say this is undeniable proof that Torracat will evolve into Incineroar for the sake of argument. The question then becomes, when is he going to evolve? The anime is currently setting groundwork for an arc about Solgaleo, Lunala, and Ultra Necrozma and an arc about Minna. The anime will also probably have an additional arc with Hapu (or whoever her stand-in is), a few adventures around school and hunting Ultra Beasts, and the inevitable Alolan League arc. Even if Torracat evolves right at the start of this new arc in episode 88, the time for Incineroar to shine as Ash’s main Pokemon is extremely limited. Contrast this with Ash’s Lycanroc, which evolved from Rockruff in episode 38 and took lead of the party shortly after. It would be strange for Game Freak to spend 50 episodes building a Pokemon up, only to discard them.

Lycanroc’s uniqueness is also a large point in its corner. Sakurai has said before that a character being unique and breaking new group is important for a non-echo newcomer. Lycanroc has 2 major factors in its favour: its feral, quadruped fighting style and its earth-based power set. Thus far, we only have 2 quadruped characters in Smash: Ivysaur and Duck Hunt. The former of which uses their vines as arms and the later of which has the duck assist him in his attacks and is rather cartoony. Lycanroc would be quite feral and animalistic, being bound to all fours. Lycanroc would be quite feral and animalistic, being bound to all fours and fighting with bites, slashes, and tackles. One of the biggest concerns over Lycanroc’s possible inclusion is how a quadruped character would wield items without any assistance. I personally don’t think this is a huge deal. Lycanroc could easily hold, swing, and use single hand items such as the Beam Sword or Killing Edge with its mouth. Likewise, heavy items such as crates and party balls could be held and thrown using its back. The biggest issue is the Super Scope, as many figure it needs two hands to hold and shoot. However, Smash has taken a lot of creative liberty with the Super Scope before (Wario holds the front of the super scope and shakes it back and forward to shoot it, for example) so having Lycanroc use the Super Scope isn’t too out there. There’s also geokinesis of Lycanroc that would be unique. Thus far, we have yet to see a character utilize rocks or the ground in their moveset, so Lycanroc would be breaking new thematic ground. Lycanroc’s rock type also gives it access to unique moves which haven’t been seen in Smash yet, such as Stone Edge, Rock Throw, Rock Climb, Drill Run, Stealth Rock, and Accelerock.

Incineroar is slightly more rough for wear in this category. The most common idea for Incineroar is to have him emulate the wrestler archetype found in many fighting games, similar to how Little Mac emulates the fighting style of real world boxers. However, there’s one big problem in the way of Incineroar, Bowser. Bowser is a heavy character with super armour, powerful attacks, a drop kick, and a pile driver command grab, he’s really one lariat away from being a full blown wrestler. Likewise, King K. Rool also has a few wrestler moves, such as his drop kick f-air and back breaking up-throw (although K. Rool takes more from Sumo Wrestlers than Western wrestlers). Sakurai has stated he does not like to have characters that reuse ideas that pre-existing characters already have, which puts Incineroar at a huge disadvantage, especially when we’ve already gotten a heavy weight character with wrestling moves in his moveset. The best case scenario to make Incineroar unique is to go all in with the “heel” idea, giving him moves such as hitting opponents with chairs or spitting in their eyes. However, then the character begins to stray too far from what Incineroar is in Pokemon. Incineroar is a dirty fighter, but he still has an aspect of a legitimate warrior, he isn’t a cheater who can’t confront others in a one-on-one fight. Contrasting this with Lycanroc, the closest character to Lycanroc’s play style is Wolf, but those two would immediately separate themselves due to one being a biped and the other being a quadruped. Incineroar also has a tough card in his fire element, the most common elemental ascetic in Smash. Lycanroc would be fully unique relative to the rest of the Smash roster in his geokinesis attacks.

The only reason I'm scared of Lycanroc being in is because he somewhat steps in Isaacs toes a bitXD (Being geokinetic, and all)

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean...Project plan in December 2015 and Sakurai saying he's using the ballot to choose newcomers has me 95% sure we aren't getting a promotional gen 7 rep in the base game.

Can I ask if you believe in Vergeben?
I forget if not, apologies.

The only reason I'm scared of Lycanroc being in is because he somewhat steps in Isaacs toes a bitXD (Being geokinetic, and all)

He's...he's a dog. You don't have anything to worry about.

 

[Noipoi]

I mean...Project plan in December 2015 and Sakurai saying he's using the ballot to choose newcomers has me 95% sure we aren't getting a promotional gen 7 rep in the base game.

Sakurai's made exceptions for Pokemon before, he could do it again.
Gen 7 is one of my favorites! Let me hope!

 

[Zinith]

The only reason I'm scared of Lycanroc being in is because he somewhat steps in Isaacs toes a bitXD (Being geokinetic, and all)

I think you have nothing to worry about there.

 

[MainJPW]

(Even though he may technically made more sense to be a gunner given his own game. But maybe they want to bury that game as much as possible. Wouldn't really blame them if that were the case).

Considering Shadow only used guns once in a critically panned game that SEGA never wants to reference I don't see how it would make more sense. Tails used gadgets and gun, bazooka and Laser Blaster attachments on his Cyclone and even has an arm cannon that shoots energy balls and had a blaster in Fire & Ice (Eh, Boom Tails is still a Tails).

Still, Knuckles got a pretty good upgrade to a neat and rather complex Assist Trophy. I just hope Tails gets something at least on Knuckles calibre, or even if he gets nothing base-game wise then something to happen in DLC. I'll be kinda pissed if Knuckles and Shadow got some significant upgrade but Tails does not. I'd even take Tails being a 2nd Sonic Assist trophy as much as it'd hurt at first. It'd still be something.

I agree with this, Tails is more iconic to the franchise than Knuckles or Shadow so he should get something more than a cameo. It's just kinda disrespectful to the character.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Can I ask if you believe in Vergeben?
I forget if not, apologies..

He's been accurate on what he's doubled down on for Smash. So I do think he has sources. I know he said Pokemon is getting a gen 7 newcomer but I'm on the wait and see track with that. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. No shame in that.

 

[BlueMagician]

Sakurai understands that people want a Pokemon newcomer in general, so I think one's more likely than not

 

[hazza5557]

I’d easily prefer Tails over Shadow but I don’t see it happening honestly. Both would be amazing.

 

[Momotsuki]

I don't even care for Geno, but I really want him to get in because I want to see the rejoice and happiness among his supporters who have held out for so long. Geno as a character may not be relevant, but his supporters, they deserve it. They really do.

 

[Luigi The President]

He's been accurate on what he's doubled down on for Smash. So I do think he has sources. I know he said Pokemon is getting a gen 7 newcomer but I'm on the wait and see track with that. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. No shame in that.

Amen, that's the way to go.

I don't even care for Geno, but I really want him to get in because I want to see the rejoice and happiness among his supporters who have held out for so long. Geno as a character may not be relevant, but his supporters, they deserve it. They really do.

Again, it's always refreshing to see kindness like this in the Smash fandom. Keep being you!

 

[Noipoi]

I don't even care for Geno, but I really want him to get in because I want to see the rejoice and happiness among his supporters who have held out for so long. Geno as a character may not be relevant, but his supporters, they deserve it. They really do.

Me too! That's why he's on my most wanted list even though I don't really want him.

 

[ArkhaosZero]

The only reason I'm scared of Lycanroc being in is because he somewhat steps in Isaacs toes a bitXD (Being geokinetic, and all)

I think that they both have more than enough potential in their movesets to be different. Lycanroc would likely use earth/rock-based specials, but I'm sure he'd have a lot of normals involving vicious bites and claw swipes and what not. Isaac has geokinesis to work with, but also the other Djinn as potential specials, and general Psynergy like Move in addition to sword based normals.

He'd also likely feel very different stat-wise. Lycanroc would almost surely have incredible run speed and maybe average air speed, potentially being a bit floaty. Isaac on the other hand would probably feel very well-rounded.

 

[Momotsuki]

It's so surreal as Smash fans, or simply Nintendo fans to feel listened to. With how SSBU's newcomers seem to come mostly from a ballot that WE filled in with our desires, it's just really magical when Nintendo had always seemed so deaf to our wishes in the past.

 

[Luigi The President]

Unrelated, but can someone get me those fanmade Ultimate icons a lot of folks use in their signatures? As in the thread. That'd be awesome. Thank you!

It's so surreal as Smash fans, or simply Nintendo fans to feel listened to. With how SSBU's newcomers seem to come mostly from a ballot that WE filled in with our desires, it's just really magical when Nintendo had always seemed so deaf to our wishes in the past.

It really is shocking, isn't it?

 

[Wambo]

Smash Fans: "Ridley and K.Rool may have gotten in, but that means nothing! Geno is an irrelevant character from one game! There's no way Sakurai will add him!"
Sakurai: "For this Smash game, I've been choosing highly requested characters from the Smash Ballot."
Smash Fans: "Yeah, Geno is a sure thing."

Jeez, talk about a huge ****ing 180 degree turn here the past few days. Not that I'm complaining, but I just find it kinda funny.

 

[Zinith]

Unrelated, but can someone get me those fanmade Ultimate icons a lot of folks use in their signatures? As in the thread. That'd be awesome. Thank you!


It really is shocking, isn't it?

https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-stock-icons.455706/

Here ya go...

 

[hazza5557]

I had Smash for the Wii U and 3DS but I’m sooo hyped for the Switch game. I’ve only just got my switch and I only have mario kart 8. I’m buying the Limited Edition smash ultimate with the GameCube controller and I’m buying 3 more GameCube controllers and 3 more pairs of joy cons.

 

[Noipoi]

It's so surreal as Smash fans, or simply Nintendo fans to feel listened to. With how SSBU's newcomers seem to come mostly from a ballot that WE filled in with our desires, it's just really magical when Nintendo had always seemed so deaf to our wishes in the past.

Yeah it's really great!
Now if only Gamefreak shared the same sentiment...