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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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ArkhaosZero

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It's so surreal as Smash fans, or simply Nintendo fans to feel listened to. With how SSBU's newcomers seem to come mostly from a ballot that WE filled in with our desires, it's just really magical when Nintendo had always seemed so deaf to our wishes in the past.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Honestly, just in general with the Switch era, NIntendo seems like they've turned their attention back on the fan desires. With Smash in particular, every single newcomer so far has been highly requested (sans Richter, but he's popular in the Castlevania fandom and is clearly a welcome newcomer), even going so far as to emphasize Echo fighters to push in characters that'd be hard to include otherwise.

There's other character's I'd like to see, but I feel so fulfilled that I can't complain if none of them show up.
 

Luigi The President

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Thank you so much Zin!

Smash Fans: "Ridley and K.Rool may have gotten in, but that means nothing! Geno is an irrelevant character from one game! There's no way Sakurai will add him!"
Sakurai: "For this Smash game, I've been choosing highly requested characters from the Smash Ballot."
Smash Fans: "Yeah, Geno is a sure thing."

Jeez, talk about a huge ****ing 180 degree turn here the past few days. Not that I'm complaining, but I just find it kinda funny.
In this thread I've seen most speak of Geno as a guarantee. Myself included. Most likely way different in other places, though!
 

Paperchampion23

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Me too! That's why he's on my most wanted list even though I don't really want him.
This is honestly why him, Isaac, Banjo, Waddle Dee and various other characters are on my lists. They are the most likely's in a way now and I just want to see the happiness across the fanbase for finally getting them.


I'm 200% satisfied with the roster already (The Everyone is Here trailer and the faster, more robust gameplay was honestly all I needed), but the fact that Ridley, K. Rool and Simon made that perfect roster even more satisfying just speaks volumes to me. On top of this, we are getting MORE characters, which frankly in a game that has 73 already, is absolutely nuts.

I'd love it to be these guys though, if not me, for all of the people who have been dying for them for years.
 

Momotsuki

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There's other character's I'd like to see, but I feel so fulfilled that I can't complain if none of them show up.
Same. They could reveal Isabelle as an Assist Trophy tomorrow and I'd be fine with it after a brief "Aww..." Seriously, there's already so much amazing content here that I almost feel overwhelmed already, yet despite feeling overwhelmed everything that's overwhelming me is hecking quality stuff!
 

Capybara Gaming

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A Youtuber (who actually has an account here btw) was debunking the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak and he was reading a Reddit post that threw Boshi into the lot of Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach. Everyone assumed that was an attack on me personally as there really wasn't any leaks mentioning Boshi...
I mean to be fair Boshi's got about as much chance as them
That is to say, 0%
 
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DarkFalcon

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Inklings truly felt like the only character that would make it in regardless of the ballot. Though I'm sure they had votes.

Ridley feels like a mix of ballot and Sakurai finally cracking. Ridley probably got a decent amount of votes, but I think more so the fan demand for so long finally made Sakurai reconsider him.

K. Rool was 100% the ballot lol.
 

Nethermoosen

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I’ve been to quite a few forums for games I enjoy in the past year and I have to say you guys are the best gaming community I’ve taken part in, even if it hasn’t been long.

I realize things can get toxic here like anywhere else, but it’s rampant in other places I’ve been.
You’ve all mostly been welcoming to me and I really appreciate that.

So, thank you for the kindness.
 

NintenRob

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Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Honestly, just in general with the Switch era, NIntendo seems like they've turned their attention back on the fan desires. With Smash in particular, every single newcomer so far has been highly requested (sans Richter, but he's popular in the Castlevania fandom and is clearly a welcome newcomer), even going so far as to emphasize Echo fighters to push in characters that'd be hard to include otherwise.

There's other character's I'd like to see, but I feel so fulfilled that I can't complain if none of them show up.
I'd argue Simon himself wasn't as requested as a lot of other characters, don't get me wrong he had his fan base but I think I saw more for Bomberman than Simon, and everyone mostly just wanted Snake back first
 

Noipoi

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I've been seeing a lot of Gamefreak hate lately...

... Good. Let's keep this going. <3
I don't hate Gamefreak, I just wish they'd realize that Pokemon Go mechanics, more tutorials and more Kanto aren't what most fans want.
Especially in the era of Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, and Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

But that's an off-topic discussion for another time :laugh:.
 

ArkhaosZero

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I've been seeing a lot of Gamefreak hate lately...

... Good. Let's keep this going. <3
Yeah, god.. not to get too off topic but, jesus. I'll spare the wall of text, but I just hope that Smash Bros, BotW, and Odyssey really show Gamefreak what "paying attention to your core audience" can do for your games. Success begets success. Hopefully.


Normally Smash gets criticized with its' every move, but the fan reception to Ultimate has been glowing.

I'd argue Simon himself wasn't as requested as a lot of other characters, don't get me wrong he had his fan base but I think I saw more for Bomberman than Simon, and everyone mostly just wanted Snake back first
Yeah, Simon likely wasn't at the top or anything, but you'd see him around every once in awhile. Bomberman was seemingly more popular, at least from my small scope of perspective. Point is, he's not some random off-the-wall addition. His addition makes a lot of sense.

Nothing against silly choices, but I think people generally felt like 4 had way too many of those, and way too little of the truly requested characters.
 
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Wambo

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I don't hate Gamefreak, I just wish they'd realize that Pokemon Go mechanics, more tutorials and more Kanto aren't what most fans want.
They also pretty much keep making the same game. When PokeMon was announced for the Switch, I was hoping for something more 3D and non-linear, like Poke-Breath of the Wild.

I mean holy ****, how much is PokeMon worth?! They seriously don't have enough money to make a game like that?!
 

Noipoi

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I remember when people called this game a port.
In the old country, we'd call them morons.
To be fair, at the time all we were seeing were ports of 3DS and Wii U games. Some people jumped to conclusions.
But if someone out there still thinks it's a port after all this, I dunno what to tell them.
 

Momotsuki

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...Would Nintendo really need the license to make Yoshi blue and slap a pair of sunglasses on him? Stupid question, but I'm not totally certain. As long as they didn't call him Boshi and simply made him a Yoshi skin, that is.
 

Ze Diglett

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Smash Fans: "Ridley and K.Rool may have gotten in, but that means nothing! Geno is an irrelevant character from one game! There's no way Sakurai will add him!"
Sakurai: "For this Smash game, I've been choosing highly requested characters from the Smash Ballot."
Smash Fans: "Yeah, Geno is a sure thing."

Jeez, talk about a huge ****ing 180 degree turn here the past few days. Not that I'm complaining, but I just find it kinda funny.
Right? To me, it was pretty obvious since the E3 Direct that most of this game's newcomers were gonna come from the ballot, or at least be long-time fan requests like Ridley, but before Sakurai came out and said it, people were so keen to move the goalposts and say Ridley or K. Rool getting in means nothing for Geno because they are/were "major villains." Now, people see him as a lock. It's crazy.
 

ArkhaosZero

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They also pretty much keep making the same game. When PokeMon was announced for the Switch, I was hoping for something more 3D and non-linear, like Poke-Breath of the Wild.

I mean holy ****, how much is PokeMon worth?! They seriously don't have enough money to make a game like that?!
I wish I could like this post more than once.


...Would Nintendo really need the license to make Yoshi blue and slap a pair of sunglasses on him? Stupid question, but I'm not totally certain. As long as they didn't call him Boshi and simply made him a Yoshi skin, that is.
For a reference, no, but I don't think that it'd be worth the trouble. Not sure how satisfying that'd be to those who wanted the character.
 

Nethermoosen

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I don't hate Gamefreak, I just wish they'd realize that Pokemon Go mechanics, more tutorials and more Kanto aren't what most fans want.
Especially in the era of Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, and Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

But that's an off-topic discussion for another time :laugh:.
You’re right, though. I just want Pokémon to...evolve? You’d think that would be their motto rather then the steps back they seem to be making. Sun and Moon were great because they moved passed the HM crap, but that took sooooo long. I wish they streamlined what made the game tedious(within reason) and made the core of the game a greater focus. I don’t wanna rub bellies, click sandbags, grind EV or IV, feed them puffins or go to fashion shows. I wanna be the best that no one ever was, catching them is my test and training them(TO FIGHT) is my cause.

I want challenges from trainers, gyms, leagues and champions to extend up to level 100. I don’t want to trade Pokémon that unreasonably causes them to evolve. I don’t want to spend time making them happy at a certain time of day. I want them to fight, evolve in ways that are fun or mysterious(see shedinja) instead of tedious and I want more Pokémon to feel viable when I decide to get online.

It just seems they could have progressed a little bit more since gen 3.
 

DarkFalcon

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In the old country, we'd call them morons.
To be fair, at the time all we were seeing were ports of 3DS and Wii U games. Some people jumped to conclusions.
But if someone out there still thinks it's a port after all this, I dunno what to tell them.
Before the game was even announced a lot of people stuck to the idea of it being a port so I think it was hard for people to get out of that mindset. Unfortunately I've seen a few still believe that.

People think you need to scrap everything and remake it from the ground up or it's a port. The next Zelda game will certainly reuse assets and the engine from BoTW but that won't be a port lol. I guess Majora's Mask is a port too :^)
 

WingedSupernova

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It's so surreal as Smash fans, or simply Nintendo fans to feel listened to. With how SSBU's newcomers seem to come mostly from a ballot that WE filled in with our desires, it's just really magical when Nintendo had always seemed so deaf to our wishes in the past.
We've gotten so many amazing things this version of Smash we never thought possible. Ridley, who was considered a meme in Smash 4, is now playable. King K. Rool, who people were klamoring for nonstop, is now playable. Simon mothaf****** Belmont, who was considered to be a nice thought, but was never considered to be possible because Konami, is now playable. And that's not even taking into consideration that every Smash character ever is now back, and that more characters are possible with the new vision and re-branding of clones, and the all star line up of assist trophies we have this time including our first ever indie rep in the Smash portion of the game with Shovel Knight. This is by far the blessed timeline.
 
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Wambo

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Gamefreak: "What do you think would attract people to PokeMon more?"
Also Gamefreak: "150 MOAR POKEMAN"
Gamefreak: "BRILLIANT"
 

ArkhaosZero

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People think you need to scrap everything and remake it from the ground up or it's a port. The next Zelda game will certainly reuse assets and the engine from BoTW but that won't be a port lol. I guess Majora's Mask is a port too :^)
Hell, I'd rather developers not build everything from scratch each time. Sakurai works his ass off, so credit where credit's due, but I think him having to pour his blood, sweat and tears into re-inventing literally everything over again really hurt the potential of the past games. Once you know your engine, you can engage it on a deeper level and make something greater the second time around (hence Ultimate). Not to mention the sheer amount of time saved by not rebuilding things you already have.
 

Sephazon

月に代わって、お仕置きよ !
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I've been seeing a lot of Gamefreak hate lately...

... Good. Let's keep this going. <3
I've worked with The Pokémon Company and the Pokémon brand for a number of years. One thing I can definitely say about the production of the series is that they try to keep it close to the original core idea while trying out a few new things each generation. Furthermore, the amount of communication that has to go on during really any production involving the brand is intense. The Pokémon Company, which oversees all brand use, is owned three ways between Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo. It can get pretty complicated. The control of the brand is tight, which is why things such as Pikachu only allowed to be yellow in join games, such as Super Smash Bros. is a thing.

I don't hate Gamefreak, I just wish they'd realize that Pokemon Go mechanics, more tutorials and more Kanto aren't what most fans want.
Especially in the era of Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, and Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

But that's an off-topic discussion for another time :laugh:.
To be fair, Pokémon GO mechanics are being implemented in the upcoming Let's Go games as a method to bring in those mobile gamers in to the core series and move Switch consoles. A great deal of marketing is going into these games. The tutorials can be a grievance, and while I understand they may help younger fans, I know what it's like as a fan to have their hand held after so many years.
 
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RandomAce

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Oh god more Pokémon debates. Since everyone has been talking about Lycanroc recently, I might as well go deeper into this (obviously).

So starting off with the obvious question. Why would Sakurai pick Lycanroc of all things?

One of the things Sakurai looks when selecting new characters, and essentially a new Pokémon, is it’s uniqueness. Can this character stand out and bring in something new from the cast? Lycanroc easily fills this out, we’ve yet to see any character in Smash use earth like abilities, and the only move that was Rock based “Rock Smash” was removed. Having an earth based fighter can lead to interesting moves like spawning pillars and rock edges for Smash attacks and specials, etc. in ways that the cast hasn’t done. And that isn’t taking into account the other things like different forms, whatever boost mechanic Dusk has, and each forms unique attack and ability, and having two forms being a quadruped, this already kills a lot of birds with a single damn stone.

You can argue another character, Isaac can fill this motif, but even then, Isaac would include so many other things that he is well known that he can possibly pull from his gargantuan move list that Isaac and Lycanroc would be distinct enough to not be in each other’s way, with varying different playstyles. (Not to mention the whole being a wolf and a Human sorcerer).

Now onto the next question, There’s tons of other possible unique Gen 7 Pokémon that can be unique, why does Lycanroc have an edge over them?

This is where it’s presence comes into play. Another aspect that Sakurai looks when selecting a new Pokémon is if the Pokémon is going to play a big part of the current generation, since A) usually the character who is main focus is the one that gets into Smash, and B) it would usually determine which is the most likely to be popular.

Lycanroc also wins here. Ever since the beginning of Sun and Moon’s run, Lycanroc has been played up to be a big part of Sun and Moon. The Midday and Midnight forms were big when they were first revealed and were being shown in the things like merchandise, advertising, and even held important roles during the Rockruff arc and were shown off the earliest in the anime. Not to mention the Midnight and Midday forms were shown to be popular among the Pokémon crowd. Not to mention, that Ash’s main Pokémon is a Lycanroc, and a new form, Dusk, which leads into another whole can of worms. Dusk has been one of the biggest Pokémon to have a presence this generation, ever since 2017 when it was first revealed to be advertised for USUM and became Ash’s main Pokémon for an entire year.

Incoming small rant:
Forget your damn murals, forget how Incineroar is out of the blue suddenly going to become this big thing for Ash when it’s been two years of development for Ash’s team, when his Litten JUST evolved into a torrocat a month ago when his Lycanroc/Rockruff had a major plot points for the past entire anime run, and the upcoming arc seems nothing related to Torrocat in any ways. It’s clear, Lycanroc was pushed from the start and has surpassed that of the starters. Even if Dusk wasn’t available, the Midday and Midnight forms still had a big presence even for the beginning of Gen 7.
End small rant.
Lycanroc has the benefit of BOTH presence AND uniqueness. That’s why they are people pushing the damn thing in the first place, if it didn’t have it’s unique abilities it would’ve been another Chrom situation, and clearly a lot of us learned that unless your an easy echo, this isn’t likely.

Finally, here’s one last question. What about their concept art? It doesn’t really stand out as much compared to the starters.

That is in fact a good question. However, one reference sheet alone isn’t enough to make a character.

In fact, Sakurai even said he received SEVERAL illustrations and references from Game Freak to decide on Greninja. The concept art is solely meant to show how they look like and maybe some in character actions, however, he most likely had more reference sheet at his disposal to simulate moves. And even then, Sakurai made sure he waited until X and Y were near the end of development to get more information about the Pokémon in general. The same could possibly apply here,with by waiting until early mid 2016, Sun and Moon, were practically done at that point and had more finalized design for all the Pokemon, allowing Sakurai more information about each of them to allow him to pick which is possibly the best option to choose from.

So what does this have to with Lycanroc? Well, Sakurai would have known about them being the planned big Pokémon stars of the seventh generation, and with how Sakurai always first looks into the characters’ potential moveset, he would’ve ended up learning more about them and with them being earth benders with multiple forms and unique abilites, and even it’s Dusk form, and exposed to what makes Lycanroc stand apart from everyone else.
———————————————————
So this is why I think Lycanroc is likely in my eyes. I used to believe that it would’ve been Decidueye and even Incineroar as a possibility when I first speculated about Smash Ultimate, but as the recent events unfolded and the more I learned about Lycanroc and what they can bring, they suddenly seemed like one of the most likely characters. Even with the recent speculation about Incineroar, I looked more into it and so far, Ash’s Litten JUST evolved in a previous episode with Kukui’s (Masked Royal’s) Incineroar, and with another arc that seems to be even more focused on Necromza and hints at Lycanroc playing a part yet again near the end of this year, it doesn’t seem plausible with how much their building Ash’s and his Lycanroc’s relationship so far.
 
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Nethermoosen

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Hell, I'd rather developers not build everything from scratch each time. Sakurai works his *** off, so credit where credit's due, but I think him having to pour his blood, sweat and tears into re-inventing literally everything over again really hurt the potential of the past games. Once you know your engine, you can engage it on a deeper level and make something greater the second time around (hence Ultimate). Not to mention the sheer amount of time saved by not rebuilding things you already have.
That’s exactly why I think this game will have more than we allow ourselves to expect. It’s all the content of Smash 4 with a whole new development cycle to throw on top of it and time to change it. It could be Smash 4 with a whole other smash 4 worth of changes and content on top.
 

DarkFalcon

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Hell, I'd rather developers not build everything from scratch each time. Sakurai works his *** off, so credit where credit's due, but I think him having to pour his blood, sweat and tears into re-inventing literally everything over again really hurt the potential of the past games. Once you know your engine, you can engage it on a deeper level and make something greater the second time around (hence Ultimate). Not to mention the sheer amount of time saved by not rebuilding things you already have.
I think another thing that makes people claim "enhanced port" is unlike prior games, the visual style is not as drastically changed as before. 64 to Melee? Huge upgrade. Melee to Brawl? Shift to more realistic/gritty. Brawl to Smash 4? More colorful and cartoony. 4 to Ultimate? Not really a huge stylistic change. It's only really noticeable once you look at stages and comparison pics. Then you realize "holy **** this is an upgrade".
 

DevaAshera

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Dixie doesn't really require much of anything. That assumes she has to somehow have all these hair attacks. She doesn't. At all. She could have zero unique moves and it'd work fine. Her hair can be connected to a... gah, I forget how it was explained. Basically, the hair itself has no animations and just moves around as Dixie does. You need to change the dresses here. So it's not necessarily true.

Also, Gardevoir walks around in the Smash games and always uses its legs. It can run normally. Not saying it should be super hard to make them both run, but the character uses their legs already in Smash, so there's no point in removing the model when it works. We already know that different animations are fine. Gothitelle shouldn't use the same running animations if it's pointlessly harder to make work. It just has to be the same speed.

The issue is the dress Gothitelle uses does not match up with animations that Gardevoir will use when jumping. The dress moves about everywhere due to basically not being a key part of its animations. Gothitelle's is far more connected to the design(along with the hard fact that it has tiny legs compared to Gardevoir's huge ones), so they need different jumping animations to begin with. Echoes aren't supposed to take a lot of work. Not to any severe degree. They're supposed to have 1:1 proportions to begin with, which is already iffy alone due to Gothitelle having a different skeleton as is(also, Gardevoir has full legs in the games in the character model. Gothitelle's is tiny, just like the anime. Or you might as well say it has no legs).

Regardless, it is possible, but the leg thing is the biggest hindrance(the dress is heavily too, since Gardevoir's, again, does not work like Peach's, which is more like what Gothitelle's is, where Gardevoir's doesn't even have a hitbox or is a key part of the animations. It simply can mostly fly all around without it affecting the moves. Gothitelle's is way different and already part of its natural body shape and hitbox. Another way to put it is Gardevoir could simply put on a pair of shorts instead of the dress and it wouldn't affect its moveset at all due to the way it's designed. Gothitelle's is a full part of its main model to the point that you can't remove it). Basically, it feels like way too much work for an Echo and falls best under a clone to begin with. Which is not a bad thing at all. With vastly different character models and skeletons, as well as different abilities and designs, Gothitelle just doesn't make good Echo material. She makes way more sense as a clone.

Dixie doesn't have this issue because her hair, while something that should be there, can be ignored and basically just "fly in the wind" without affecting the moveset at all. It isn't required to use in any way in order for the Echo to work. Mind you, whether or not they could reuse DK to recreate the Spinning Hair is another story(it's possible, but considering our only example is Chrom, who used two very similar body shapes to copy moves from, I wouldn't heavily expect it). It's not impossible, obviously, but it might require too much work to change the skeleton(DK's upper torso) to fit an unrelated model(the hair). Dixie might just have all of Diddy's moves with new aesthetics. And it'd work fine.
They wouldn't use the Pokéball Pokémon model of Gardevoir so why would they use it's animations? Beyond that, Pokéball Gardevoir doesn't run, she walks..very weirdly honestly..tiny little swaying steps, something even stubby legged Gothitelle could do..just sayin'.

If Gardevoir was made into a playable character, how the Pokéball version functioned would not matter and she would likely float to run as she does in the games, anime, and Pokkén Tournament.

Yes, I know, you hammered skirt & dress animations home already, but there is no way those can't be tweaked if needed, especially by professional programmers.

Like I've said, I don't believe the leak, but to say it is outright impossible is just wrong. It is not hard to alter animations (as should by Dark Samus having quite different animations for most of her moves) and we don't know what kind of moves Gardevoir would theoretically have but I can't imagine she'd have many, if any, kicking moves.

All that I am saying is it's not some impossible, insurmountable feat to make Gothitelle from Gardevoir were Sakurai inclined to. I believe in him and his team's ability to make it happen.
 
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Noipoi

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I've worked with The Pokémon Company and the Pokémon brand for a number of years. One thing I can definitely say about the production of the series is that they try to keep it close to the original core idea while trying out a few new things each generation. Furthermore, the amount of communication that has to go on during really any production involving the brand is intense. The Pokémon Company, which oversees all brand use, is owned three ways between Game Freak, Creatures Inc, and Nintendo. It can get pretty complicated. The control of the brand is tight, which is why things such as Pikachu only allowed to be yellow in join games, such as Super Smash Bros., is a thing.



To be fair, Pokémon GO mechanics are being implemented in the upcoming Let's Go games as a method to bring in those mobile gamers in to the core series and move Switch consoles. A great deal of marketing is going into these games. The tutorials can be a grievance, and while I understand they may help younger fans, I know what it's like as a fan to have their hand held after so many years.
Oh wow! I didn't expect to see you here! It's cool to be able to directly talk to someone who works closely with my favorite game series!
I don't expect you to know the answer to this question, but do you know if Gamefreak really consider fan feedback?
Sometimes it feels like they're ignoring us and just doing whatever they want. Like Festival Plaza.
 
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Wambo

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I think another thing that makes people claim "enhanced port" is unlike prior games, the visual style is not as drastically changed as before. 64 to Melee? Huge upgrade. Melee to Brawl? Shift to more realistic/gritty. Brawl to Smash 4? More colorful and cartoony. 4 to Ultimate? Not really a huge stylistic change. It's only really noticeable once you look at stages and comparison pics. Then you realize "holy **** this is an upgrade".
Honestly, it's really hard for me to look at Smash 4 after watching a ****load of Ultimate footage. The game just looks so... for lack of a better word, "cheap"? I hate saying that since it feels like a huge insult to Sakurai and his team and the work they put into it. But if Smash 4 wasn't a thing, Ultimate wouldn't exist, so I still kinda appreciate it.

Part of me thinks that the reason Smash 4 was also so lackluster (imo) is because it was an attempt to save Wii U sales. Why bother to go all-out on a game that probably won't even sell that well?
 
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ArkhaosZero

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That’s exactly why I think this game will have more than we allow ourselves to expect. It’s all the content of Smash 4 with a whole new development cycle to throw on top of it and time to change it. It could be Smash 4 with a whole other smash 4 worth of changes and content on top.
Agreed. It was a popular thought that Sakurai's "I hope you aren't expecting as many" newcomers line meant 2 or 3 max, but I never bought that. It was vague at best, and didn't take into consideration that the team had much, much more time to focus on on-the-brow content. Now here we are, some some theories even see as much as 9 more newcomers in addition to what we have already.

Wouldn't be shocked if Spirit's mode ends up being halfway between Adventure and Subspace, honestly.
 

Noipoi

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Oh god more Pokémon debates. Since everyone has been talking about Lycanroc recently, I might as well go deeper into this (obviously).

So starting off with the obvious question. Why would Sakurai pick Lycanroc of all things?

One of the things Sakurai looks when selecting new characters, and essentially a new Pokémon, is it’s uniqueness. Can this character stand out and bring in something new from the cast? Lycanroc easily fills this out, we’ve yet to see any character in Smash use earth like abilities, and the only move that was Rock based “Rock Smash” was removed. Having an earth based fighter can lead to interesting moves like spawning pillars and rock edges for Smash attacks and specials, etc. in ways that the cast hasn’t done. And that isn’t taking into account the other things like different forms, whatever boost mechanic Dusk has, and each forms unique attack and ability, and having two forms being a quadruped, this already kills a lot of birds with a single damn stone.

You can argue characters like Isaac can fill this motif, but even then, Isaac would include so many other things that he is well known that he can possibly pull from his gargantuan move list that Isaac and Lycanroc would be distinct enough to not be in each other’s way. (Not to mention the whole being a wolf and a Human sorcerer).

Now onto the next question, There’s tons of other possible unique Gen 7 Pokémon that can be unique, why does Lycanroc have an edge over them?

This is where it’s presence comes into play. Another aspect that Sakurai looks when selecting a new Pokémon is if the Pokémon is going to play a big part of the current generation, since A) usually the character who is main focus is the one that gets into Smash, and B) it would usually determine which is the most likely to be popular.

Lycanroc also wins here. Ever since the beginning of Sun and Moon’s run, Lycanroc has been played up to be a big part of Sun and Moon. The Midday and Midnight forms were big when they were first revealed and were being shown in the things like merchandise, advertising, and even held important roles during the Rockruff arc and were shown off the earliest in the anime. Not to mention the Midnight and Midday forms were shown to be popular among the Pokémon crowd. Not to mention, that Ash’s main Pokémon is a Lycanroc, and a new form, Dusk, which leads into another whole can of worms. Dusk has been one of the biggest Pokémon to have a presence this generation, ever since 2017 when it was first revealed to be advertised for USUM and became Ash’s main Pokémon for an entire year.

Incoming small rant:
Forget your damn murals, forget how Incineroar is out of the blue suddenly going to become this big thing for Ash when it’s been two years of development for Ash’s team, when his Litten JUST evolved into a torrocat a month ago when his Lycanroc/Rockruff had a major plot points for the past entire anime run, and the upcoming arc seems nothing related to Torrocat in any ways. It’s clear, Lycanroc was pushed from the start and has surpassed that of the starters. Even if Dusk wasn’t available, the Midday and Midnight forms still had a big presence even for the beginning of Gen 7.

Lycanroc has the benefit of BOTH presence AND uniqueness. That’s why they are people pushing the damn thing in the first place, if it didn’t have it’s unique abilities it would’ve been another Chrom situation, and clearly a lot of us learned that unless your an easy echo, this isn’t likely.

Finally, here’s one last question. What about their concept art? It doesn’t really stand out as much compared to the starters.

That is in fact a good question. However, one reference sheet alone isn’t enough to make a character.

In fact, Sakurai even said he received SEVERAL illustrations and references from Game Freak to decide on Greninja. The concept art is solely meant to show how they look like and maybe some in character actions, however, he most likely had more reference sheet at his disposal to simulate moves. And even then, Sakurai made sure he waited until X and Y were near the end of development to get more information about the Pokémon in general. The same could possibly apply here,with by waiting until early mid 2016, Sun and Moon, were practically done at that point and had more finalized design for all the Pokemon, allowing Sakurai more information about each of them to allow him to pick which is possibly the best option to choose from.

So what does this have to with Lycanroc? Well, Sakurai would have known about them being the planned big Pokémon stars of the seventh generation, and with how Sakurai always first looks into the characters’ potential moveset, he would’ve ended up learning more about them and with them being earth benders with multiple forms and unique abilites, and even it’s Dusk form, and exposed to what makes Lycanroc stand apart from everyone else.
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So this is why I think Lycanroc is likely in my eyes. I used to believe that it would’ve been Decidueye and even Incineroar as a possibility when I first speculated about Smash Ultimate, but as the recent events unfolded and the more I learned about Lycanroc and what they can bring, they suddenly seemed like one of the most likely characters. Even with the recent speculation about Incineroar, I looked more into it and so far, Ash’s Litten JUST evolved in a previous episode with Kukui’s (Masked Royal’s) Incineroar, and with another arc that seems to be even more focused on Necromza and hints at Lycanroc playing a part yet again near the end of this year, it doesn’t seem plausible with how much their building Ash’s and his Lycanroc’s relationship so far.
Woah, chill out buddy. It's just a video game.
 

RandomAce

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Woah, chill out buddy. It's just a video game.
I write essays when I need to explain something in-depth, this isn’t the first time I did this.

This isn’t me being be mad or anything, just my full analysis on my perspective and trying to support it.

Noipoi Noipoi , you didn’t read all of it didn’t you?
 
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DevaAshera

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Even though I do believe it's fake..I would absolutely love to see the reaction on these Boards if the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak was somehow true~
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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They wouldn't use the Pokéball Pokémon model of Gardevoir so why would they use it's animations? Beyond that, Pokéball Gardevoir doesn't run, she walks..very weirdly honestly..tiny little swaying steps, something even stubby legged Gothitelle could do..just sayin'.

If Gardevoir was made into a playable character, how the Pokéball version functioned would not matter and she would likely float to run as she does in the games, anime, and Pokkén Tournament.

Yes, I know, you hammered skirt & dress animations home already, but there is no way those can't be tweaked if needed, especially by professional programmers.

Like I've said, I don't believe the leak, but to say it is outright impossible is just wrong. It is not hard to alter animations (as should by Dark Samus having quite different animations for most of her moves) and we don't know what kind of moves Gardevoir would theoretically have but I can't imagine she'd have many, if any, kicking moves.

All that I am saying is it's not some impossible, insurmountable feat to make Gothitelle from Gardevoir were Sakurai inclined to. I believe in him and his team's ability to make it happen.
Nowhere did I say it was impossible. I said it requires more work than normal. And yes, I just said they can be tweaked too. That's the point I'm making.

My point is Gardevoir already clearly walks so it's pointless to make outright extremely different animations for her when she has better ones. Running is a different story. I"m only saying it requires a lot of work to make Gothitelle an Echo. Whether or not that would stop her from being one and turned into a clone is too hard to say.

We're on the same page, basically.

At the very least, you get why Dixie wasn't nearly as good of an example? That's all I was trying to say when replying about her.

But yeah, I'd rather if Gothitelle got in she was vastly more tweaked too, heh. But I'd like Dixie unique too. I guess it depends the character, really.
 

lizard1929

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Short Prediction list (1 rep from each franchise) doesn't include echoes
- Legend of Zelda (Skullkid/Impa)
- Pokémon(long list)
- Kirby (Bandana Dee)
- Xenoblade (Elma/Rex)
I don't want to say any 3rd parties as it gets messy
Edit: / means or
 
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Retroend

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the only thing i need left is isaac. please sakurai make it happen. i'll ask no more of him if he makes it happen.
 
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