Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

All this unnecessary Incineroar and Lycanroc debating when Palossand is clearly gonna be the new rep

Like come on why would Sakurai say no to a playable sand castle

Because he could say "yes" to the never woke koala instead. :V

 

[Pakky]

Blame it on the Verge.

This is crappy to say but... the fight was lost before it began.

Incineroar was the starter of choice from day one as far as we know.

The owl got into Pokken and that's probably the end of the line for this gen.\

Which sucks because I really do like him/it.

 

[RandomAce]

While I appreciate your enthusiasm for the character, I feel there's a lot of assumptions of what Sakurai would do just because he did it for Greninja. Plus saying Sakurai would wait until later in 2016 for more information opens the book for other characters like Rex and Pyra. Their concepts weren't finalized until later in 2016 but with the logic you use for Lycanroc he could do the same with them if his project plan listed "new Xenoblade character", and I don't agree that that would happen, and the argument here is to delay the development of the game until the very latest just to improve Lycanroc's chances.

And let's not forget. Sakurai has already directly said he's using the ballot for newcomers.

I’m going to be honest, when I made the statement, I think the Pokémon would’ve been decided by Feb/March 2016, fairly early in development. Even then your arguement was flawed about opening others, Lycanroc or any Pokémon would’ve been nearly finished than Rex or Spring Man would since they wouldn’t even be out by 1 or 2 years later and Rex is definitely more complicated as a character than any Pokémon will ever be. It’s a flawed arguement, you simply can’t compare them. I’m basing this off the fact, that Sakurai seems to be selecting a Pokémon from Smash 4 will most likely go over for this game.

But I’ll stop it here, it seems that you think I directed it at you specifically, this was never meant to be directed at you in the first nor did I wanted to in the first place. Though I do have to admit I get a little too enthusiastic over Lycanroc recently, I’m just supporting something I want. :]

Watch Sakurai just picked Incineroar because he likes cats

Doesn’t Sakurai have a cat? Well ****, I’m a pack up then.

Nah I read it. Pretty interesting, I just thought it was funny that you wrote so much about Pokemon.
No offense.

This is what happens when you spend on Smasboards for a prolonged period of time.

In just one year, I learned to be more thorough and to be give a lot of more depth when I make my arguments.

I would say the same about Decidueye but everyone gave up on it.

@Lampy knows it all too well. Poor guy, he hasn’t been seen here for a while now.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I get the point you're trying to make, but Final Fantasy is not what you want to use in this example as the series' battle system changes quite a bit from game to game (sometimes dramatically). Try using Dragon Quest for this example instead.

7 Materia system(was epic)
8 Guardian Force, Draw/Cast System, Aura
9 Weapon Learning and Vivi/Steiner techniques/Dyne
10 Sphere Grid, Summoning overhaul, 3rd person perspective shift, Voice acting
11 uhhhhh so different I didn’t like it
12 Dynamic movement(relatively), gambit system, changes summoning again

 

[MBRedboy31]

This isn't EXACTLY related to Smash chat, but as an aspiring game developer, I think I'm beginning to realize how Pokemon's core gameplay is flawed in a way that hinders gameplay variety WAY more than it should, and my be why it has become accused for being so stale over the past few installments.

The vast majority of traditional RPGs that I've seen and played have the player controlling a party of multiple characters at once, battling multiple enemies at once (unless its a boss). Having a full party to control and tweak in this manner, in a good RPG, enables for vast methods with which to experiment and strategize with what everyone in the party can do. Everyone has a niche.

Pokemon gives you a party, but almost every fight is strictly 1-on-1 instead of letting you use the full party to its maximum potential. As such, gameplay becomes homogenized - it loses the question of "how do I best go about this" and more or less devolves into rock-paper-scissors and spamming your strongest moves. This, in turn, makes combat feel extremely samey and bland and perhaps is one of the reasons the franchise has been accused of not changing it up for so long.

Even Yo-Kai Watch gets this right - half the party's fighting at once and you can rotate members out on the fly.

Anyways rant's over, carry on.

One thing that’s kinda interesting about that is that, despite the main game being pretty much 1v1s for most of the journey, 2v2 is the standard for their official tournaments. Like, does that mean that they secretly think doubles is more interesting? Hmm.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I’m still not giving up on Buzzwole

 

[Pakky]

I’m going to be honest, when I made the statement, I think the Pokémon would’ve been decided by Feb/March 2016, fairly early in development. Even then your arguement was flawed about opening others, Lycanroc or any Pokémon would’ve been nearly finished than Rex or Spring Man would since they wouldn’t even be out by 1 or 2 years later and Rex is definitely more complicated as a character than any Pokémon will ever be. It’s a flawed arguement, you simply can’t compare them. I’m basing this off the fact, that Sakurai seems to be selecting a Pokémon for this will most likely go over for this game.

But I’ll stop it here, it seems that you think I directed it at you specifically, this was never meant to be directed at you in the first nor did I wanted to in the first place.


Doesn’t Sakurai have a cat? Well ****, I’m a pack up then.


This is what happens when you spend on Smasboards for a prolonged period of time.

In just one year, I learned to be more thorough and to be give a lot of more depth when I make my arguments.


@Lampy knows it all too well. Poor guy, he hasn’t been seen here for a while now.

I feel bad for @Lampy

 

[Zinith]

7 Materia system(was epic)
8 Guardian Force, Draw/Cast System, Aura
9 Weapon Learning and Vivi/Steiner techniques/Dyne
10 Sphere Grid, Summoning overhaul, 3rd person perspective shift, Voice acting
11 uhhhhh so different I didn’t like it
12 Dynamic movement(relatively), gambit system, changes summoning again

Didn't even mention one of the most drastic changes: the Active Time Battle system in IV

 

[Hinata]

For a reference, no, but I don't think that it'd be worth the trouble. Not sure how satisfying that'd be to those who wanted the character.

Well, the scant few people who want Boshi agree he'd be an echo of Yoshi, so relegating him to an alt costume would have about the same impact. Just means you'd miss out on hearin' the announcer say his name. Heheh.

 

[KingBroly]

One thing that’s kinda interesting about that is that, despite the main game being pretty much 1v1s for most of the journey, 2v2 is the standard for their official tournaments. Like, does that mean that they secretly think doubles is more interesting? Hmm.

2v2 is better for balance.

 

[AzureFlame4]

tbh when it comes to echos, if I had to rate their chances

1. Isabelle - the most popular of the bunch
2. Ken - Theyve added a ton of SF songs and *loud sigh* Verge said hes in
3. Medusa - Fits palu to a tee, is a girl villain, the last nes villain left to add. Has almost nothing going against her
4. Shadow - missing AT and relatively popular. I dont see how ppl say hes locked tho
5. Dixie - Popular for sure but she might need a lil too much reworking (tho i still think she works perfectly fine)
6. Black Knight - would be higher, but his theme already being shown and the fact that we already got chrom makes me think sakurai might not push his luck here

I kind of want to give my own echo list now:
1.Ken-Before Richter I would say nah, but after it just feels so right. I would honestly consider maining Ken for his theme+I like how Ryu plays.
2.Shadow- Same as above, adding the missing assist trophy and not as much interest in maining.
3.Dixie- I feel a Dark Samus situation where they announce it after the direct where they announce the big villain.
4.Isabelle-Missing AT. most popular AC character as far as I know, plus Vergeben.
5. Impa- It's Impa and Zelda could use a new rep.
6.Black Shadow- If they are actually pushing villains vs. Heroes this game.
7. Ninten- I'm not sure at all. This would be if they wanted more Earthbound for some reason.
8. Birdo- Same as 7 but for Yoshi.
9. Louie- Same as 7 except for Pikmin
10. Black Knight-Because of a deep seeded hope I have for him.

 

[DevaAshera]

Genesect maybe? It has an excellent body shape for fighting, more than enough moves, and could use its Drive ability for a new mechanic.

I think it's more that Dixie only would require changes if Diddy has tail attacks. If he doesn't, there's no need. The tail attacks also are in a very different place from the hair, so that'd require way more animation changes to work(at least enough for a clone status). It's not like with Chrom's Up B which has Ike's animation tweaked. They're still very similar. I was however more meaning I don't know if Dixie could seriously get a retool of DK's Up B at all. I guess it might be doable if they just take the skeleton from his upper body, and apply it solely to the hair. Though I guess you could do that with R.O.B.'s spinning moves too, but I'm guessing it's not honestly as simple. From what I understand, DK and Dixie have about the same proportions too, so it might still be workable, just with tweaks. I'd love it if it happened, though.

Genesect would be cool..but it's lack of hands would keep it from being able to use items.

Diddy does have that one rapid tail whip move that would need changing at least.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I’m going to be honest, when I made the statement, I think the Pokémon would’ve been decided by Feb/March 2016, fairly early in development. Even then your arguement was flawed about opening others, Lycanroc or any Pokémon would’ve been nearly finished than Rex or Spring Man would since they wouldn’t even be out by 1 or 2 years later and Rex is definitely more complicated as a character than any Pokémon will ever be. It’s a flawed arguement, you simply can’t compare them. I’m basing this off the fact, that Sakurai seems to be selecting a Pokémon for this will most likely go over for this game.

But I’ll stop it here, it seems that you think I directed it at you specifically, this was never meant to be directed at you in the first nor did I wanted to in the first place.

I have many disagreements but I'll stop here.

I've got nothing against Lycanroc. I just don't see him as likely. Same with any other Gen 7 Pokemon as I don't think the development was the same as Smash 4's. If he's in the game I'll be wrong and that's fine. I'm a big boy. I can take being wrong.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Didn't even mention one of the most drastic changes: the Active Time Battle system in IV

I am not as familiar with VI and sooner. I am also ashamed to have failed to mention Tactics(my favorite).

Truth be told, my first step into Final Fantasy was Kingdom Hearts. Second was FFX. Then 7-9, Tactics and then 12.

 

[Wambo]

I've been working a lot lately, so I don't know if y'all have talked about Vergeben's recent leak two days ago. Apparently, SquareEnix is getting a new character.
PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398?page=9

EDIT: Bottom of the page.

 

[lizard1929]

Personal pokemon history
I got into gaming because of platinum (I was a kid) and followed it for years until sun and moon which was my last game.
Yes pokemon games don't change an awful lot as they attract new crowds and remove the old ones (old crowds want something new).
Its a constant safe cycle for a company. Changing the game may bring in both old and new crowds or it could alienate the entire fanbase.
Risk/Reward vs Safe

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Can someone explain to me why the Gothitelle leak is still in the running when it explicitly namedropped Simon as not being in?
It's more deconfirmed then leaks we deconfirm. Why are we keeping it around?

Because some people are incapable of separating what they desire from what's feasibly plausible.

 

[Luigi The President]

I've been working a lot lately, so I don't know if y'all have talked about Vergeben's recent leak two days ago. Apparently, SquareEnix is getting a new character.
PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398?page=9

Oh buddy...you missed a lot!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ok, I solved my Mewtwo problem

I still can't beat Mewtwo with Sheik, but I can as Duck Hunt

Which I guess is ironic considering Duck Hunt is worse against Mewtwo than Sheik

But Duck Hunt is my "main" I guess.

 

[Pakky]

Man... I really do want Porky, but I gotta say he's not in my top 5 or rather three now I guess.

 

[Wambo]

Oh buddy...you missed a lot!

Care to give me a page number of when this took place? :3

 

[RandomAce]

I have many disagreements but I'll stop here.

I've got nothing against Lycanroc. I just don't see him as likely. Same with any other Gen 7 Pokemon as I don't think the development was the same as Smash 4's. If he's in the game I'll be wrong and that's fine. I'm a big boy. I can take being wrong.

I just wanted a simple civil discussion.

I just want to learn more about this game, even though we know that Sakurai says he referred to ballot characters, I wonder which characters he specifically chosen, and if he might also pick some characters that weren’t fan favorites just for their moveset potential.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Man... I really do want Porky, but I gotta say he's not in my top 5 or rather three now I guess.

I hope Porky at least returns as a boss. Though a playable Porky would be pretty dope

 

[AzureFlame4]

I've been working a lot lately, so I don't know if y'all have talked about Vergeben's recent leak two days ago. Apparently, SquareEnix is getting a new character.
PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398?page=9

EDIT: Bottom of the page.

I want it to be Geno for the Geno fans even if I'm not one of them.

 

[Idon]

The one thing I dislike about the Pokemon sequels is that it's always one step forward and another step back.

Some improvements made this generation are lost the next and some great quality of life things are replaced with gimmicks. I wish Pokemon would just add upon each iteration to further improve their games.

 

[MainJPW]

I've been working a lot lately, so I don't know if y'all have talked about Vergeben's recent leak two days ago. Apparently, SquareEnix is getting a new character.
PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno,PleasebeGeno...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398?page=9

EDIT: Bottom of the page.

We have. Every time Verge so much as makes a peep we talk about it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Genesect would be cool..but it's lack of hands would keep it from being able to use items.

Diddy does have that one rapid tail whip move that would need changing at least.

That move has yet to be seen. His neutral A combo is unknown. This is the main reason people think she could be an echo, as the only animation issue is supposedly gone. It could be why the combo may be gone too.

Genesect can still use it, even if it looks unorthodox. One thing I've learned is that Smash sometimes just ignores logic to make it work. He can just stick them to his talon-like hand(kind of like how the n64 models looked in Smash 64) and call it a day. I mean, it might look tacky, but not everything has to be perfect, heh.

Also, doesn't R.O.B. also lack proper hands and still holds items without the proper thumbs, etc.?

 

[Nethermoosen]

I kind of want to give my own echo list now:
1.Ken-Before Richter I would say nah, but after it just feels so right. I would honestly consider maining Ken for his theme+I like how Ryu plays.
2.Shadow- Same as above, adding the missing assist trophy and not as much interest in maining.
3.Dixie- I feel a Dark Samus situation where they announce it after the direct where they announce the big villain.
4.Isabelle-Missing AT. most popular AC character as far as I know, plus Vergeben.
5. Impa- It's Impa and Zelda could use a new rep.
6.Black Shadow- If they are actually pushing villains vs. Heroes this game.
7. Ninten- I'm not sure at all. This would be if they wanted more Earthbound for some reason.
8. Birdo- Same as 7 but for Yoshi.
9. Louie- Same as 7 except for Pikmin
10. Black Knight-Because of a deep seeded hope I have for him.

I’ve preferred Ken since they started making him a little more unique in Alpha and onwards. My favorite version is MvC2 where he has his own versions of each move. His Hadoken barely goes anywhere, showing Ryu has greater mastery of the Hadoken, while Ken’s Shoryuken can be wreathed in varying amounts of fiery Hado(energy). Then his tatsumaki flies diagonally upwards and ends with an axe kick spike to show their difference in approach.

 

[Luigi The President]

Care to give me a page number of when this took place? :3

Problem is it took place over like 20 pages.
Best estimate I could give is...3390-3400, maybe?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You know what legendary would be cool? Deoxys. I've always liked Deoxys despite barely playing Gen 3.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Even if Diddy still had his rapid tail jab, all they'd have to do is not allow Dixie to do it and increase damage on the normal jab to balance it out.

 

[Idon]

Also, doesn't R.O.B. also lack proper hands and still holds items without the proper thumbs, etc.?

Magnets, how do they work?

 

[Pakky]

I hope Porky at least returns as a boss. Though a playable Porky would be pretty dope

I keep thinking of this

Spoiler: Cool Porky model

Love this model, looks like Doc Oct (Man Marvel's roster is bad...)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Magnets, how do they work?

So basically they can bull**** a reason like that. Sounds good enough to me~

 

[Pizzanigs]

I definitely think Verge is the reason why no one talks about Decidueye anymore (and also why we always talk about Incineroar now)

 

[Wambo]

Problem is it took place over like 20 pages.
Best estimate I could give is...3390-3400, maybe?

Found it, thanks.

 

[Demonslyer401]

Diddy does have that one rapid tail whip move that would need changing at least.

it is interesting how we haven't seen diddy's rapid jab yet

even more interesting is how they changed his third hit to where he no longer turns around before kicking witch would normally be followed by his tail

Spoiler: diddy kong

 

[Nethermoosen]

I just wanted a simple civil discussion.

I just want to learn more about this game, even though we know that Sakurai says he referred to ballot characters, I wonder which characters he specifically chosen, and if he might also pick some characters that weren’t fan favorites just for their moveset potential.

He may be referring to the ballot as much as he can, but I imagine exceptions like Inkling exist, where the ballot won’t take a couple of spots reserved for special cases. I feel like Pokémon is one of those that gets a rep regardless. Not that I have any way to back that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

How does ROB spin around with that wire on him?

 

[Pakky]

I definitely think Verge is the reason why no one talks about Decidueye anymore (and also why we always talk about Incineroar now)

I mean, its more than just him. Look around and compare and contrast the two and how the Pokemon Company operates when it comes to Smash.