Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Thirdkoopa]

Also I've said this before but: Greninja was like, a big frontrunner during Pokken speculation b/c of Smash. Not that Pokken speculation lasted that long, but it was killed pretty quickly.

Honestly, my guess was on Chesnaught for that game

>_>

 

[AzureFlame4]

Incineroar is the 2nd best fire starter visually only behind Blaziken.

Blaziken > Incineroar > Charizard > Typhlosion > Infernape > Delphox > Emboar

Nice opinion mate. I'd go with Infernape over all of them though and that's from a genwunner.

 

[Pakky]

Also b/c most people leave movesets out of these discussions. There's really only one other character, bar Incineroar, that could have been given a wrestling moveset. That's Travis Touchdown - and that isn't even a Nintendo character, among other things.

I agree. However, there IS Starman from Urban Champion... No one cares about him though...

 

[Nethermoosen]

Nice opinion mate. I'd go with Infernape over all of them though and that's from a genwunner.

I like Emboar. Not even being a troll. He reminds me of OG Ganon and thatMs the closest I have to being able to play him.
Poor ol’ piggy.

 

[Wambo]

I agree. However, there IS Starman from Urban Champion... No one cares about him though...

*Starman from Pro Wrestling

But really though, Starman and Mach Rider would still be fun classic character ideas.

After Geno.

 

[Pakky]

I like Emboar. Not even being a troll. He reminds me of OG Ganon and thatMs the closest I have to being able to play him.
Poor ol’ piggy.

The pig and the monkey are a set

Sun Wukong and Piggsy

*Starman from Pro Wrestling

But really though, Starman and Mach Rider would still be fun classic character ideas.

After Geno.

Dang... you right.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I agree. However, there IS Starman from Urban Champion... No one cares about him though...

Actually, Starman is from Pro Wrestling, but even then that'd really be putting in a character for the sake of it. I don't think it's proper to assume we're going to have a "Nintendo History" character because...

Melee:
Ice Climbers - Retro
G&W - History

Brawl:
Pit - Retro
R.O.B. - History

4:
Duck Hunt - History

So... yeah. Don't get me wrong; Nintendo's Pro Wrestling was a neat game, but I'd just rather see more variants on the boxing ring as references and call it a day.

 

[Pakky]

Actually, Starman is from Pro Wrestling, but even then that'd really be putting in a character for the sake of it. I don't think it's proper to assume we're going to have a "Nintendo History" character because...

Melee:
Ice Climbers - Retro
G&W - History

Brawl:
Pit - Retro
R.O.B. - History

4:
Duck Hunt - History

So... yeah. Don't get me wrong; Nintendo's Pro Wrestling was a neat game, but I'd just rather see more variants on the boxing ring as references and call it a day.

You're absolutely right.

The popular an or obvious wrestler character right now IS Incenaroar.

I like the idea of the Battle Royale stage from Sun/Moon.

Also a trailer of him fighting Pikachu Libre would be sick.

 

[Onua]

how many newcomers do you think we will get?
My guns are on 6 echoes and 3 new newcomers

 

[Pacman High Tier]

If we DID get a Nintendo History character I was thinking the little yellow square guy from the 3DS AR Games. There's actually quite a lot of games to pull a moveset from with him.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd really like to know realistically how many characters are left

Are they just going to unload characters in the final direct or are they going to include more characters in other promotions from here until December?

Or is there really only going to be like 2 newcomers and 2 echoes left

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pokken. That's literally why.

A lot of discussion in these threads sheep off of each other, but, the two serious contenders should have always been Incineroar and Decidueye (with Lycanroc following a slight third) - People instantly took him being in Pokken though as a "Well, if he's in Pokken, he must be in Smash, right?!" when, of the Pokemon in Smash, only half of them are on the Pokken Roster (Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario, Charizard, arguably Blastoise b/c Squirtle). One of my friends even tried to shut that down when I brought up the Verge discussions by claiming "Ultra beasts!" but TPC helps pick a character by who's going to be their marketing slave; not who's going to be well for the games.

Also b/c most people leave movesets out of these discussions. There's really only one other character, bar Incineroar, that could have been given a wrestling moveset. That's Travis Touchdown - and that isn't even a Nintendo character, among other things.

edit: Someone also brought up the removal of the Pokemon Trainer and yeah... him being back kinda messes with things too.

Let's not forget that there's the Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven, as well as some of the characters from Pro Wrestling. Though I don't know if Pro Wrestling is 1st party.

Not against Incineroar myself, just pointing these out.

 

[RandomAce]

Also I've said this before but: Greninja was like, a big frontrunner during Pokken speculation b/c of Smash. Not that Pokken speculation lasted that long, but it was killed pretty quickly.

Honestly, my guess was on Chesnaught for that game

>_>

Greninja not in Pokken confuses me to this day. At least I got Sceptile.
————————————————
I realized both GoldenYuitusin and Delzethin are both in this thread,

(Plz be civil)
but I need some sleep first.

Good night everyone! This was one heck of a night.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

So, Date got disconfirmed for Smash...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You're absolutely right.

The popular an or obvious wrestler character right now IS Incenaroar.

I like the idea of the Battle Royale stage from Sun/Moon.

Also a trailer of him fighting Pikachu Libre would be sick.

Pretty much - I just want to see a bunch of stage variants for boxing ring (For example, King D3's ring, that I'm shocked we didn't see) but we'll see. It's also nice to finally have a wrestler in Smash Bros since, out of the whole moveset, we really don't have one.

I don't want people to sheep on me, either - people are free to disagree. I just want people to think about this stuff far more as "characters" than "reps". I saw a Golden Sun discussion once go on for five pages littered with false information. I'm just a guy who's been around since Brawl speculation who just wants Incineroar, Isaac, and Geno lol.

Spoiler

Masked Man and Daroach would be cool too but I ain't expecting jack on those LOL

 

[Onua]

Honestly I just kinda want one super direct where they just unload absolutely everything left to show

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So, Date got disconfirmed for Smash...

I remember when my date got deconfirmed in the Brawl days. Asked a girl if she'd like to play Smash on my wii. For some reason it angered her.

 

[NintenRob]

little yellow square guy

Sorry but there's only one little yellow square guy allowed in Smash

 

[Zinith]

So, Date got disconfirmed for Smash...

Date? Who's that?

 

[Sephazon]

Actually, Starman is from Pro Wrestling, but even then that'd really be putting in a character for the sake of it. I don't think it's proper to assume we're going to have a "Nintendo History" character because...

Melee:
Ice Climbers - Retro
G&W - History

Brawl:
Pit - Retro
R.O.B. - History

4:
Duck Hunt - History

So... yeah. Don't get me wrong; Nintendo's Pro Wrestling was a neat game, but I'd just rather see more variants on the boxing ring as references and call it a day.

Despite not being a playable character in Duck Hunt, I would argue Duck Hunt Duo as more of a retro character than a historical character. For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, I'm still holding out for Ayumi Tachibana from Famicom Detective Club as the retro rep. I'm not terribly optimistic, however.


Image Source: NewVillainWorld

As I've already mentioned in her support thread, with the inclusion of other Melee cutting room floor content, such as Ditto and Sakupon, I'd be very excited in the inclusion of Ayumi Tachibana.

 

[Deleted member]

Greninja not in Pokken confuses me to this day. At least I got Sceptile.
————————————————
I realized both GoldenYuitusin and Delzethin are both in this thread,
View attachment 159680
(Plz be civil)
but I need some sleep first.

Good night everyone! This was one heck of a night.

Jokes on you, I'm going to bed too. :V

So, Date got disconfirmed for Smash...

Surprised Date was even in the running.
Would have thought the Warriors/Musou rep was ALWAYS going to be Lu Bu. :V

EDIT: I am well aware of the irony of making a typo when joking about another typo.

 

[Wambo]

Honestly I just kinda want one super direct where they just unload absolutely everything left to show

Same. I'd love it if Sakurai showed off a list of a buncha empty slots at the start of the direct, showing us the number of remaining characters, and then every now and then throughout the direct, randomly played a newcomer trailer/Echo gameplay and added that character to one of the empty slots.

Like a "final countdown" sort of thing.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Seems like more and more pepole think Sora will get into the game over Geno thanks to that Sakurai interveiw

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Greninja not in Pokken confuses me to this day. At least I got Sceptile.
————————————————
I realized both GoldenYuitusin and Delzethin are both in this thread,
View attachment 159680
(Plz be civil)
but I need some sleep first.

Good night everyone! This was one heck of a night.

Both Golden and Delzethin understand where I'm coming from and know I've speculated Smash for a longgg while and I've said unpopular things many times - I'm not always right, either, but they'll definitely get what I was going at.

Let's not forget that there's the Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven, as well as some of the characters from Pro Wrestling. Though I don't know if Pro Wrestling is 1st party.

Not against Incineroar myself, just pointing these out.

Okay, sure, let's talk about them. Since Pro Wrestling would be more "NES Fanservice" and the Wrestler would be Rhythm Heaven, let's talk about those. Now, if there were any big titular characters like Little Mac, we'd be having a bit of a different discussion

Pro Wrestling - There's multiple routes to go for from an NES character that... can't really be emulated by any other character. Say, Mach Rider - Do you think we can really have anyone who'd do what he does on the roster? Excitebiker? Heck, even Prince Sable? We could go down the list, but...

Rhythm Heaven - Not any offense to Wrestler or Karate Joe, but it's probable that even though they could be in their movesets, they'll go with something that showcases the comedic goofiness that is Rhythm Heaven better - We already know the Chorus Kids were an idea at some point during Smash for 3DS and Wii U.

Incineroar - A popular Pokemon with a design widely considered "cool" that will be shoved down our throats because TPC wills it that definitely holds his own (to a degree) against the popularly requested characters.

If we're bringing up all choices, sure. If we look at it further, Pro Wrestling and Rhythm Heaven are choices, but are pretty improbable as that. Not impossible - however. Anyone who knows me knows I try not to discount any option unless it's absurd; there's just good reasons we say "Well, Incineroar's like the only one people widely want"*

* = By widely want, I mean the want for a new Pokemon is there.

 

[Wambo]

Seems like more and more pepole think Sora will get into the game over Geno thanks to that Sakurai interveiw

Where are you pulling that from? I've been seeing it as the other way around.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'd really like to know realistically how many characters are left

Are they just going to unload characters in the final direct or are they going to include more characters in other promotions from here until December?

Or is there really only going to be like 2 newcomers and 2 echoes left

I think we'll be getting 8-9, including echoes. My reasoning, the same as others, is that on the blog they've been showcasing an average of 3 characters per week. The characters shown on the blog are at 69 characters right now (Mii Fighters and Pokemon trainer count as one each, echoes count), with 26 weeks from E3 to release. By week 23, roughly 69 characters characters would be shown off, leaving room for around 9 characters, including echoes, that have yet to be announced to be shown off. Of course, take this with a grain of salt as they could change their pattern by showing off 6 characters in the last week, or only 1 for all we know. But it is a pattern worth noting. My prediction is 4 more unique newcomers and 4 more echoes.

 

[AzureFlame4]

If I had to give an honest prediction at this point I'd say
1. Incenaroar
2. Skull Kid
3. Geno

Echos;
1. Ken
2. Shadow
3. Isabelle

DLC:
Banjo
Sora

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So I was looking up movesets for Skull Kid and they are surprisingly similar to what we have as an idea for Geno

Including having a beam as his neutral special and having somewhat ranged attacks. Geno attacking with his guns and Skull Kid attacking with Tatl and Tael.

Makes me wonder if Sakurai would consider two similar characters in Smash, moveset-wise

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Another thing on why being put in Pokken prolly doesn't mean too much: There's some popular choices there, but a lot of them are moveset based. The thing people forgot about Primaria and Incineroar was that the game already had Pokemon kinda like them. Primaria, we at least had Empoleon, and with Incineroar, we had Machamp.

y'know it's funny because i never realized that until sitting down and actually thinking "wait, how did they choose decidueye" but then I remembered "oh yeah; everyone in that game is a gimmick."

EDIT: Pokken's characters, unlike Smash, have literally no clones.

 

[Onua]

Same. I'd love it if Sakurai showed off a list of a buncha empty slots at the start of the direct, showing us the number of remaining characters, and then every now and then throughout the direct, randomly played a newcomer trailer/Echo gameplay and added that character to one of the empty slots.

Like a "final countdown" sort of thing.

God that would be just the best ever

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Another thing on why being put in Pokken prolly doesn't mean too much: There's some popular choices there, but a lot of them are moveset based. The thing people forgot about Primaria and Incineroar was that the game already had Pokemon kinda like them. Primaria, we at least had Empoleon, and with Incineroar, we had Machamp.

y'know it's funny because i never realized that until sitting down and actually thinking "wait, how did they choose decidueye" but then I remembered "oh yeah; everyone in that game is a gimmick."

EDIT: Pokken's characters, unlike Smash, have literally no clones.

But it DOES have literal clones

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Despite not being a playable character in Duck Hunt, I would argue Duck Hunt Duo as more of a retro character than a historical character. For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, I'm still holding out for Ayumi Tachibana from Famicom Detective Club as the retro rep. I'm not terribly optimistic, however.

View attachment 159681
Image Source: NewVillainWorld

As I've already mentioned in her support thread, with the inclusion of other Melee cutting room floor content, such as Ditto and Sakupon, I'd be very excited in the inclusion of Ayumi Tachibana.

...no duck hunt was most definitely a historic character instead of the Retro Character; I can assure you of that much. You can make the case that they were double dipping, though, which isn't wrong.

That said, I hope to see Ayumi Tachibana in the game in some form.

by the way, abolish the word rep. Kill it with fire.

But it DOES have literal clones

THAT'S THE BEST PART

i love pokken lol it's such a silly game. One of the few I own on the Wii U and the Switch.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

i love pokken lol it's such a silly game. One of the few I own on the Wii U and the Switch.

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

Only way my respect could rise higher is if you were a Garchomp main.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I still want to get Pokken because of Blastoise

But I don't want to download paid DLC on my friend's Switch.

Then I don't get it...I'd be paying for him to get it

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

Only way my respect could rise higher is if you were a Garchomp main.

Haha, you're a cool dude Swamp. Hope Game Dev is going well for you too.

Unfortunately, I'm wild so I main Suicune, but I do play Garchomp!

 

[Zinith]

Pokken makes me glad for how simple Smash is...

 

[Koopaul]

So I've been thinking about Skull Kid. And the more I think about him, the more it doesn't make any sense for him to be a newcomer.

Well for one, a lot of these newcomers are based on popularity. And yes, Skull Kid is popular, but he's not as popular as Midna. She has a much bigger and more vocal fanbase. You'd think the next unique Zelda fighter would be her.

Then there is moveset potential. Skull Kid doesn't have a lot going for him. In his game he mostly just floats there waiting for the moon to drop. We know that he curses people too... But that's it. It seemed like even Hyrule Warriors had a hard time thinking up a moveset for him as it's surprisingly lame compared to other characters. But do you know what Zelda character does have a lot of moveset potential? Midna. That magic hair hand has so much going for it. She can also teleport and summon large objects. Why the heck would they choose Skull Kid over the much more viable and popular choice?

Look I'm not even a Midna fan. I don't even care to see her as a fighter. But I can't deny that she was the best choice for a newcomer.

But because she is an Assist, I'm assuming we are either not going to get anyone new for Zelda, or we will just get an echo fighter. The idea that we are indeed getting Skull Kid is just baffling.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Pokken makes me glad for how simple Smash is...

pokemon is the case A exhibit argument I use whenever anyone says "I want all the characters to be Unique!"

Unique Character =/= Proven Idea

Not that I'm saying Pokken is bad, but Pokken definitely has a barrier of entry, especially if you desire to play as every character well.

 

[AzureFlame4]

So I've been thinking about Skull Kid. And the more I think about him, the more it doesn't make any sense for him to be a newcomer.

Well for one, a lot of these newcomers are based on popularity. And yes, Skull Kid is popular, but he's not as popular as Midna. She has a much bigger and more vocal fanbase. You'd think the next Zelda rep would be her.

Then there is moveset potential... Skull Kid doesn't have a lot going for him. In his game he mostly just floats there waiting for the moon to drop. We knkw that he curses people too... But that's it. It seemed like even Hyrule Warriors had a hard time thinking up a moveset for him as it's surprisingly lame compared to other characters. But do you know what Zelda character doeshave a lot of moveset potential. Midna. That magic hair hand has so much going for it. She can also teleport and summon large objects. Why the heck would they choose Skull Kid over the much more viable and popular choice.

Look I'm not even a Midna fan. I don't even care to see her as a fighter. But I can't deny that she was the best choice for a newcomer.

But because she is an Assist, I'm assuming we are either not going to get anyone new for Zelda, or we will just get an echo fighter. The idea that we are indeed getting Skull Kid is just baffling.

I think there's a little blindness here. Skull kid has a huge audience. Frankly he's just an interesting character a lot of people latch onto.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

So I've been thinking about Skull Kid. And the more I think about him, the more it doesn't make any sense for him to be a newcomer.

Well for one, a lot of these newcomers are based on popularity. And yes, Skull Kid is popular, but he's not as popular as Midna. She has a much bigger and more vocal fanbase. You'd think the next unique Zelda fighter would be her.

Then there is moveset potential. Skull Kid doesn't have a lot going for him. In his game he mostly just floats there waiting for the moon to drop. We know that he curses people too... But that's it. It seemed like even Hyrule Warriors had a hard time thinking up a moveset for him as it's surprisingly lame compared to other characters. But do you know what Zelda character does have a lot of moveset potential? Midna. That magic hair hand has so much going for it. She can also teleport and summon large objects. Why the heck would they choose Skull Kid over the much more viable and popular choice?

Look I'm not even a Midna fan. I don't even care to see her as a fighter. But I can't deny that she was the best choice for a newcomer.

But because she is an Assist, I'm assuming we are either not going to get anyone new for Zelda, or we will just get an echo fighter. The idea that we are indeed getting Skull Kid is just baffling.

i think that's kinda died down after Loz18 went ham on twitter.

All that's really known is he's in the game in some capacity... not a big shock to find out.