Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Both Golden and Delzethin understand where I'm coming from and know I've speculated Smash for a longgg while and I've said unpopular things many times - I'm not always right, either, but they'll definitely get what I was going at.

....pretty sure they're referring to how I recently called out Delz a couple pages back. :V

 

[Thirdkoopa]

....pretty sure they're referring to how I recently called out Delz a couple pages back. :V

lol, what happened.

i don't feel like reading too much tonight okay (i have deadlines)

 

[NintenRob]

So I've been thinking about Skull Kid. And the more I think about him, the more it doesn't make any sense for him to be a newcomer.

Well for one, a lot of these newcomers are based on popularity. And yes, Skull Kid is popular, but he's not as popular as Midna. She has a much bigger and more vocal fanbase. You'd think the next Zelda rep would be her.

Then there is moveset potential... Skull Kid doesn't have a lot going for him. In his game he mostly just floats there waiting for the moon to drop. We knkw that he curses people too... But that's it. It seemed like even Hyrule Warriors had a hard time thinking up a moveset for him as it's surprisingly lame compared to other characters. But do you know what Zelda character doeshave a lot of moveset potential. Midna. That magic hair hand has so much going for it. She can also teleport and summon large objects. Why the heck would they choose Skull Kid over the much more viable and popular choice.

Look I'm not even a Midna fan. I don't even care to see her as a fighter. But I can't deny that she was the best choice for a newcomer.

But because she is an Assist, I'm assuming we are either not going to get anyone new for Zelda, or we will just get an echo fighter. The idea that we are indeed getting Skull Kid is just baffling.

First of all, Skull Kid is WAY more iconic than Midna, Majora's Mask is one of the most iconic objects in Zelda.

Second of all, Midna being more popular is arguable at best, notably Skull Kid one a pretty big poll pre Smash 4 beating the likes of Mega Man and Shulk. Skull Kid also comes from the more popular game.

Third of all, why does Magic hand hair mean more than all powerful dark magical mask? Yeah we don't see Skull Kid do much with it, but we know he uses it a fair bit. Shattering Great Fairies, Causing endless Winter, poisoning swap ect. "Dark Magic Mask" alone gives Skull Kid a lot of moveset potential, take some creative liberty, not every move has to be a direct reference

And Majora's Mask 3D and his addition to Hyrule Warriors Legends is perfect timing.

And Majora's Mask is just a major buzz word on the internet. Just look at the endless fate fan video

Did Midna ever get a high quality video like this? And this isn't the first time Majora's Mask gets a high quality fan video, remember the fake Majora's Mask HD trailer?

 

[Koopaul]

I think there's a little blindness here. Skull kid has a huge audience. Frankly he's just an interesting character a lot of people latch onto.

Looking back at the support threads back in Smash 4 days I can see that he was barely a blip compared to Midna. And yes I know he is very popular, but compared to Midna? No, Midna has always been a much more popular Zelda character.

 

[SSB4 Roy Pharae]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I stumbled upon this image from GameFAQs on whether Black Knight or Black Shadow is more likely (I'd gladly have both).
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76918733?page=2

And Black Shadow appears to be missing from Big Blue. He may have a chance to be playable!
https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/archive/6/61/20180818210808!SSBU-Big_Blue.png

 

[Koopaul]

First of all, Skull Kid is WAY more iconic than Midna, Majora's Mask is one of the most iconic objects in Zelda.

Second of all, Midna being more popular is arguable at best, notably Skull Kid one a pretty big poll pre Smash 4 beating the likes of Mega Man and Shulk. Skull Kid also comes from the more popular game.

Third of all, why does Magic hand hair mean more than all powerful dark magical mask? Yeah we don't see Skull Kid do much with it, but we know he uses it a fair bit. Shattering Great Fairies, Causing endless Winter, poisoning swap ect. "Dark Magic Mask" alone gives Skull Kid a lot of moveset potential, take some creative liberty, not every move has to be a direct reference

And Majora's Mask 3D and his addition to Hyrule Warriors Legends is perfect timing.

And Majora's Mask is just a major buzz word on the internet. Just look at the endless fate fan video

Did Midna ever get a high quality video like this? And this isn't the first time Majora's Mask gets a high quality fan video, remember the fake Majora's Mask HD trailer?

It's Majora's Mask the GAME that is super popular. But character wise, I think Midna has always been more requested as a fighter. in fact I think the Happy Mask Salesman might be a more popular character from that game than Skull Kid. I have no proof, it's just based on all the tributes to that character I have seen.

And what I mean by Midna's magic hair being a bigger deal is because it is actually used as an attack in Twilight Princess. We've seen Midna in combat and her powers in combat. That automatically makes her easier to make a moveset for.

 

[NintenRob]

It's Majora's Mask the GAME that is super popular. But character wise, I think Midna has always been more requested as a fighter. in fact I think the Happy Mask Salesman might be a more popular character from that game than Skull Kid. I have no proof, it's just based on all the tributes to that character I have seen.

And what I mean by Midna's magic hair being a bigger deal is because it is actually used as an attack in Twilight Princess. We've seen Midna in combat and her powers in combat. That automatically makes her easier to make a moveset for.

And with the popularity of the game comes a lot of love for the character

As seen here
http://vgtribune.com/smash-poll-2012-finals/

 

[Koopaul]

And with the popularity of the game comes a lot of love for the character

As seen here
http://vgtribune.com/smash-poll-2012-finals/

I don't put much faith in an individual poll from a particular community. Reading that page shows me Dunsparce did well on there! Obviously because of some community inside joke. But yeah. I don't know how much I can trust that.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I can't speak too much to Zelda, because my first game was Breath of the Wild. So for me personally, it would be interesting to see Impa as a unique fighter. Skull Kid from my perspective is an odd choice, and I find it very bizarre Skull Kid beat out Mega Man in the Brawl days--that makes no sense to me if it wasn't the case of stuffing the ballot, as Mega Man is clearly more iconic with an obvious moveset potential.

I also feel like Loz mentioning him opened the floodgates for speculation on Skull Kid, and given their recent track record, as well as obvious bias in their Twitter, I think Skull Kid's chances are quite low, at least compared to everyone else. What's given as hints/clues I find really reaching, and the only thing going for Skull Kid that gives me pause is Reggie having Skull Kid on his desk during the Diablo 3 reveal. The Moon assist could really go either way.

However, I'm not going to complain if he gets in. Especially if Skull Kid being in means Impa as an echo, mirroring Ridley/Dark Samus and potentially King K Rool/Dixie, I'm cool.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Both Skull Kid and Midna are incredibly popular Zelda characters and remain some of the most iconic character from the series.

Comparing them is only going to turn into a pissing match.

 

[Onua]

figured why not but here is my bingo sheet so far for ultimate. For chars I want to see, hope to see, and chars I think might make it even tho i dont care about them

Spoiler: the bingo card thing

 

[Delzethin]

You've been super anti-Incineroar and pro-Lycanroc since Day 1. Hell, I remember you specifically REFUSED to do an Incineroar video just because you personally felt it offered nothing for Smash, even going as far as making a video for Delphox instead. DELPHOX.
So you're obviously biased here and CLEARLY trying to discredit any notion of Incineroar showing up on Ash's team and being in Smash.

Am I biased for Incineroar? Yes. But at least I admit my own biases. And even disregarding my own bias towards Incineroar, there's still the fact that:

a. There's an ongoing rivalry/mentorship relationship present between Masked Royal's Incineroar and Torracat. That's how he evolved in the first place, and it still wasn't enough to make a win unlike usual cases where "Oh, Ash's Pokémon evolved, now it's going to win the battle". That trend was outright denied. And left with a "to be continued" seeing as we still see interactions between Incineroar and Torracat even after the initial episode.
They are setting up this development arc to end with Tiger vs. Tiger in classic Tiger Mask style where the "heroic" Tiger (Ash's) wins against the opposing Tiger.

b. Litten is consistently the member of the team with the most character development. You want to point out that Torracat "hasn't done much since evolving", yet you ignore that Litten's the only one with a real backstory and character arc. And is currently going through another arc as I pointed out in the previous point, though this one takes a back seat to the main plot. Could they be doing more with Torracat in the meantime? Yeah. But to argue there's no character arc present is wrong.

c. Torracat really doesn't have to do THAT much before evolving a second time if Steene is anything to go by. So to act as though "why do people think it's definitely going to evolve, they're so ****ing stupid because it's not doing anything worthwhile" is outrageous.

d. Lycanroc has never been established to be the ace, and the fact you think it already had shows the bias at work here. Yeah, it evolved early? They were promoting for Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon... It's used in battles a lot? Well no ****, it's the only member of the team that's fully evolved because it peaked real early (which aces NEVER DO). Of COURSE it'd be used more in battle. The mural? Not even of Ash's Lycanroc. You of all people should recognize a Midday Lycanroc when you see one.

e. Even ignoring the anime, there's also the I Choose You! film, representing the 20th Anniversary. You know which Pokémon was used as the antagonist's main Pokémon? Incineroar. Yeah, he had a Lycanroc too, but it was a Midnight and was just "there" (though admittedly less "just there" than Sorrel's Lucario) while Incineroar directly drove the plot for a good bit as an obstacle to overcome and forcing Ash through some character development.


Look, I get it. You're passionate about Lycanroc almost as much as I am about Incineroar.
But when you start ****ting on the latter while trying to overpraise the former, or worse, ****ting on the latter TO praise the former, you're overstepping your boundaries.
Especially when you've made such a bias against Incineroar clear in the past and are currently using that bias to speak slander just because people aren't worshiping the wolf god you are.

Why are you acting like this is some kind of personal attack? I don't bear any ill will against you. I even defended Incineroar's existence two years ago when half the Pokémon fandom was raising pitchforks against it for not being the generic quadruped starter they'd demanded. I've been speaking up, first and foremost, because I see too many things being presumed true without questioning them, when a deeper look shows things are not as simple as they seem.

Is it out of bias? Well, it's probably what's compelling me to keep talking, but damn it, there must also be other characters in similar situations whose supporters keep getting sneered at and tossed aside as well. If I have to defy the common narrative to give those people even a shred of hope, to fight back in the face of an entire fanbase mocking them for going against the bandwagon, then so be it.

Is it too personal? Probably. But it's only because I've seen it before--I saw how, four years ago, everyone who didn't treat the Gematsu leaks as infallible were mocked and harassed at every turn. I can't just sit idly and wait for it to happen again. It's not in my nature.

So...this isn't meant as an attack on you or your character. I want people to remember that there are always more potential outcomes than what we currently see. If we always assume that the first explanation that pops into our heads must be the only one, then all we do is leave us open to be blindsided all over again.

Like that Delphox concept you mentioned? It was running off one potential outcome at the time that no one had been thinking about: the chance of a Smash game being announced that E3, having been worked on at a point where Gen 7 hadn't been on the table at all yet, and where Sakurai and his team had revisited concepts that fell short of the cut for Smash 4. Because I figure the other Kalos starters must have been given a look, and I wanted to give my viewers a chance to reconsider their stance on a 'mon that got a lot of undue backlash when it was introduced for not matching the fans' expectations. Sound familiar?

Why did you believe I was deliberately snubbing Incineroar when the video itself laid the truth out clearly? Can you see now why we need to consider more than just the first explanation that comes to mind?

I realize I have a bad habit of being too vocal. Chalk it up to being used to always being dismissed offhand personally for most of my life for not being someone else. Knowing when to speak up and how to word it in a way that doesn't imply things I don't mean it to is something I've been having to learn as I go along, and there've been a lot of bumps in the road. However things turn out from here, know that I'm only trying to out-debate you, not slander you as a person. I've been on the receiving end of that far too often to do it willfully.

And...I realize that's a Midday Lycanroc depicted in the mural. It's not supposed to be a prophecy, it's depicting heroes of the past that the characters we know are supposed to be the successors of. Dusk Lycanrocs didn't exist back then because Ash's is the first of its kind in the anime canon!

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I also feel like Loz mentioning him opened the floodgates for speculation on Skull Kid

Comparing them is only going to turn into a pissing match.

We have two winners.

The only reason people started heavily speculating another Zelda character is because Loz.

 

[NintenRob]

Both Skull Kid and Midna are incredibly popular Zelda characters and remain some of the most iconic character from the series.

Comparing them is only going to turn into a pissing match.

Let me know when Midna gets a super high quality fan video detailing the characters origins and getting over 6 million views
(sorry not sorry)

 

[UberMadman]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I stumbled upon this image from GameFAQs on whether Black Knight or Black Shadow is more likely (I'd gladly have both).
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76918733?page=2

And Black Shadow appears to be missing from Big Blue. He may have a chance to be playable!
https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/archive/6/61/20180818210808!SSBU-Big_Blue.png

You’re ignoring the fact that Captain Falcon’s own car, the Blue Falcon, apprears on both the Melee and Brawl versions of the stage even though Captain Falcon is playable. Even if Black Shadow’s car was removed from the stage for some odd reason, that wouldn’t necessarily be points towards his inclusion.

 

[Flynn__]

To be fair, I think that the thing that created so much speculation about Skull Kid was the Moon being shown as an AT in the last Direct. I specifically remember loz saying that about Skull Kid right after people started to speculate about what was shown the previous day.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

To be fair, I think that the thing that created so much speculation about Skull Kid was the Moon being shown as an AT in the last Direct. I specifically remember loz saying that about Skull Kid right after people started to speculate about what was shown the previous day.

actually, that's a good reminder too. I'd say LoZ helped it significantly more, but we'd still be discussing it due to moon.

 

[dezeray112]

Date? Who's that?

I'd thought he meant Date Masamune of Sengoku Basara!

Anyways jokes aside, I think what he meant was that Dante was possibly deconfirmed for Smash when a fan asked Matt Walker (one of DMC developers) about his inclusion.

 

[Kamikazek]

So I was looking up movesets for Skull Kid and they are surprisingly similar to what we have as an idea for Geno

Including having a beam as his neutral special and having somewhat ranged attacks. Geno attacking with his guns and Skull Kid attacking with Tatl and Tael.

Makes me wonder if Sakurai would consider two similar characters in Smash, moveset-wise

They both have a very strong puppet theme to them too, with Geno being a puppet brought to life and Skull Kid being a living thing made into a puppet (metaphorically but there's very deliberate puppetry imagery/sound design with him in MM). I'd imagine that would factor into animations or normals for either character.

They'd actually work really well as adversaries in something story based (though I don't think we're going to get anything like that). Thet've got the holy vassal vs. evil incarnate thing and Geno cares a lot about his borrowed inanimate body (for the sake of it's owner) vs. Majora who doesn't give a damn about his host. And of course both are mages and similar size/shape.

 

[Koopaul]

Let me know when Midna gets a super high quality fan video detailing the characters origins and getting over 6 million views
(sorry not sorry)

Let me know when Skull Kid gets his own article on wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midna

God, I didn't want this pissing match. I don't even like Midna that much. Also that video is not a Skull Kid video, it is a Majora's Mask video. There is a difference.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They both have a very strong puppet theme to them too, with Geno being a puppet brought to life and Skull Kid being a living thing made into a puppet (metaphorically but there's very deliberate puppetry imagery/sound design with him in MM). I'd imagine that would factor into animations or normals for either character.

They'd actually work really well as adversaries in something story based (though I don't think we're going to get anything like that). Thet've got the holy vassal vs. evil incarnate thing and Geno cares a lot about his borrowed inanimate body (for the sake of it's owner) vs. Majora who doesn't give a damn about his host. And of course both are mages and similar size/shape.

I'm hoping the roster has room for both because I've been rooting for both for a long time. Though, with me it's Geno all the way.

 

[NintenRob]

Moon was the fuel and the base of Skull Kid speculation, Loz just lit the flame.


Personally I think there's still enough reason to think he's playable without the leak or bad furniture theories, but I'll admit I was on the Skull Kid train way before the game was even announced

Let me know when Skull Kid gets his own article on wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midna

God, I didn't want this pissing match. I don't even like Midna that much. Also that video is not a Skull Kid video, it is a Majora's Mask video. There is a difference.

Lol, first of all, the video is straight up Skull Kids origin. Saying its a Majora's Mask video is exactly the same as saying a Midna video is just a Twilight Princess video.


Also Wikipedia? Really? I expect better than that. Midna is really cool but having a Wikipedia really says nothing

I expect better from you

 

[Deleted member]

Yikes, I missed a good bunch. Skimming through, I see Pokemon debates and Skull Kid v. Midna debates. Might as well stoke the fires while I'm here, ayy.
Honestly when it comes to Zelda stuff, Skull Kid is the next best thing. His Final Smash is what makes me a bit concerned, since the Moon is an assist. Hey, if he transforms into Majora with all that weird body ****, I'm DOWN.

And when it comes to Pokemon, I just want Empoleon, man. I don't know all this Tapu Koko Dora the Explora Pokemon nowadays.

 

[Momotsuki]

I'll go further. Majora's Mask isn't just one of the most iconic items in Zelda. It's one of the most iconic items in gaming as a whole.

Honestly, I would say that Zelda needs a new rep. It's really the only series you can really say DESERVES a new rep. But as for who it would be, well, Skull Kid seems likely, but it could be anybody, really.

 

[Dee Dude]

So how would y’all react if Majora’s Mask was an item?

 

[Zinith]

So how would y’all react if Majora’s Mask was an item?

I'd be more baffled by what it'd DO over the fact that it disconfirms Skull Kid

 

[NintenRob]

So how would y’all react if Majora’s Mask was an item?

Cry for a week and then get excited over more Majora's Mask content

 

[PSIGuy]

Either Midna or Skull Kid would be great, I just want a Smash game where FE isn't the only franchise allowed to have one-offs out the wazoo. I get that Link/Zelda/Ganondorf are priority, but nothing stopped them from including a relevant popular character like Midna for a game.

 

[IsmaR]

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere (only became aware of it a whIle ago myself), but Nintendo's UK YouTube channel will be livestreaming an event that includes a Smash Ultimate showcase later today and tomorrow.

Not worth expecting anything major, but gameplay is always nice. The welcome portion just started/Splatoon 2 coverage will be starting shortly.

https://youtu.be/LoHdQ2oFfRM

 

[Sephazon]

Really, my main Majora's Mask interest is in regards to what happens if the Moon is used as an assist trophy in Great Bay.

+ = ..?

That said, Skull Kid is in my top 25 for newcomers in Ultimate.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere (only became aware of it a whIle ago myself), but Nintendo's UK YouTube channel will be livestreaming an event that includes a Smash Ultimate showcase later today and tomorrow.

Not worth expecting anything major, but gameplay is always nice. The welcome portion just started/Splatoon 2 coverage will be starting shortly.

https://youtu.be/LoHdQ2oFfRM

For those bad at timezones, it's currently 11AM in the UK

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere (only became aware of it a whIle ago myself), but Nintendo's UK YouTube channel will be livestreaming an event that includes a Smash Ultimate showcase later today and tomorrow.

Not worth expecting anything major, but gameplay is always nice. The welcome portion just started/Splatoon 2 coverage will be starting shortly.

https://youtu.be/LoHdQ2oFfRM

Cool, I wonder that version.

If it's one with K. Rool or Simon, make sure to keep an eye on the Pokeballs and Assist trophies.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Cool, I wonder that version.

If it's one with K. Rool or Simon, make sure to keep an eye on the Pokeballs and Assist trophies.

dw gamexplain has our backs LOL

 

[Cutie Gwen]

dw gamexplain has our backs LOL

"In this video we got the old analysis machine running for this hour long showcase. Stay tuned for the 7 other parts as this **** is too much for one video"

 

[dezeray112]

For those bad at timezones, it's currently 11AM in the UK

I'll be sure to check it out by 3PM today.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Currently 4 past twelve so check back in about 3 hours.

Until then here's a topic, what Pokeball Pokemon do you want to return?

My picks would be Articuno and Zapdos. I never understood why they were cut while Moltres stuck around where it's only attack was floating there, something Groudon did more spectacularly. Oh and brring back Groudon too.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly have no idea what the poll for this thread is meaning or referencing lol.

 

[KMDP]

I honestly have no idea what the poll for this thread is meaning or referencing lol.

If it's a reference... I don't know what it's referencing.

But "How 'bout that direct?" is "So what did you think about the August Direct?"

"Bout it, Bout it" is a nod of approval. "What 'bout it?" is "I couldn't care less."

 

[MainJPW]

If it's a reference... I don't know what it's referencing.

But "How 'bout that direct?" is "So what did you think about the August Direct?"

"Bout it, Bout it" is a nod of approval. "What 'bout it?" is "I couldn't care less."

It's a reference to this:

 

[CosmicQuark]

Currently 4 past twelve so check back in about 3 hours.

Until then here's a topic, what Pokeball Pokemon do you want to return?

My picks would be Articuno and Zapdos. I never understood why they were cut while Moltres stuck around where it's only attack was floating there, something Groudon did more spectacularly. Oh and brring back Groudon too.

Can't speak to their moves, only their emotional attachment to me. Togepi, definitely, one of my favorites. Same with Ho-Oh, though since it pops up in Kalos Pokemon League I'm not sure it could be a Pokeball summons--wasn't in 4. Celebi, Marill, Unown, Onix. And I agree--I'd like all the legendaries that were summons, but particularly the Gen 1 legendaries. It's just hard not to be greedy, because I want to spawn them all.