Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[AzureFlame4]

Even though I do believe it's fake..I would absolutely love to see the reaction on these Boards if the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak was somehow true~

Honestly, I originally thought I would be pissed if it were true. When I think of what we already have in the roster though I can come to terms with it. As long as there are two other unique newcomers with the Pokemon I won't mind.

 

[ArkhaosZero]

Oh god more Pokémon debates. Since everyone has been talking about Lycanroc recently, I might as well go deeper into this (obviously).

So starting off with the obvious question. Why would Sakurai pick Lycanroc of all things?

One of the things Sakurai looks when selecting new characters, and essentially a new Pokémon, is it’s uniqueness. Can this character stand out and bring in something new from the cast? Lycanroc easily fills this out, we’ve yet to see any character in Smash use earth like abilities, and the only move that was Rock based “Rock Smash” was removed. Having an earth based fighter can lead to interesting moves like spawning pillars and rock edges for Smash attacks and specials, etc. in ways that the cast hasn’t done. And that isn’t taking into account the other things like different forms, whatever boost mechanic Dusk has, and each forms unique attack and ability, and having two forms being a quadruped, this already kills a lot of birds with a single damn stone.

You can argue another character, Isaac can fill this motif, but even then, Isaac would include so many other things that he is well known that he can possibly pull from his gargantuan move list that Isaac and Lycanroc would be distinct enough to not be in each other’s way, with varying different playstyles. (Not to mention the whole being a wolf and a Human sorcerer).

Now onto the next question, There’s tons of other possible unique Gen 7 Pokémon that can be unique, why does Lycanroc have an edge over them?

This is where it’s presence comes into play. Another aspect that Sakurai looks when selecting a new Pokémon is if the Pokémon is going to play a big part of the current generation, since A) usually the character who is main focus is the one that gets into Smash, and B) it would usually determine which is the most likely to be popular.

Lycanroc also wins here. Ever since the beginning of Sun and Moon’s run, Lycanroc has been played up to be a big part of Sun and Moon. The Midday and Midnight forms were big when they were first revealed and were being shown in the things like merchandise, advertising, and even held important roles during the Rockruff arc and were shown off the earliest in the anime. Not to mention the Midnight and Midday forms were shown to be popular among the Pokémon crowd. Not to mention, that Ash’s main Pokémon is a Lycanroc, and a new form, Dusk, which leads into another whole can of worms. Dusk has been one of the biggest Pokémon to have a presence this generation, ever since 2017 when it was first revealed to be advertised for USUM and became Ash’s main Pokémon for an entire year.

Incoming small rant:
Forget your damn murals, forget how Incineroar is out of the blue suddenly going to become this big thing for Ash when it’s been two years of development for Ash’s team, when his Litten JUST evolved into a torrocat a month ago when his Lycanroc/Rockruff had a major plot points for the past entire anime run, and the upcoming arc seems nothing related to Torrocat in any ways. It’s clear, Lycanroc was pushed from the start and has surpassed that of the starters. Even if Dusk wasn’t available, the Midday and Midnight forms still had a big presence even for the beginning of Gen 7.

Lycanroc has the benefit of BOTH presence AND uniqueness. That’s why they are people pushing the damn thing in the first place, if it didn’t have it’s unique abilities it would’ve been another Chrom situation, and clearly a lot of us learned that unless your an easy echo, this isn’t likely.

Finally, here’s one last question. What about their concept art? It doesn’t really stand out as much compared to the starters.

That is in fact a good question. However, one reference sheet alone isn’t enough to make a character.

In fact, Sakurai even said he received SEVERAL illustrations and references from Game Freak to decide on Greninja. The concept art is solely meant to show how they look like and maybe some in character actions, however, he most likely had more reference sheet at his disposal to simulate moves. And even then, Sakurai made sure he waited until X and Y were near the end of development to get more information about the Pokémon in general. The same could possibly apply here,with by waiting until early mid 2016, Sun and Moon, were practically done at that point and had more finalized design for all the Pokemon, allowing Sakurai more information about each of them to allow him to pick which is possibly the best option to choose from.

So what does this have to with Lycanroc? Well, Sakurai would have known about them being the planned big Pokémon stars of the seventh generation, and with how Sakurai always first looks into the characters’ potential moveset, he would’ve ended up learning more about them and with them being earth benders with multiple forms and unique abilites, and even it’s Dusk form, and exposed to what makes Lycanroc stand apart from everyone else.
———————————————————
So this is why I think Lycanroc is likely in my eyes. I used to believe that it would’ve been Decidueye and even Incineroar as a possibility when I first speculated about Smash Ultimate, but as the recent events unfolded and the more I learned about Lycanroc and what they can bring, they suddenly seemed like one of the most likely characters. Even with the recent speculation about Incineroar, I looked more into it and so far, Ash’s Litten JUST evolved in a previous episode with Kukui’s (Masked Royal’s) Incineroar, and with another arc that seems to be even more focused on Necromza and hints at Lycanroc playing a part yet again near the end of this year, it doesn’t seem plausible with how much their building Ash’s and his Lycanroc’s relationship so far.

Lycanroc is my most desired Pokemon newcomer. I've generally resigned to expecting Incineroar (both because I dislike Incineroar immensely so to "prepare for dissapointment", and due to Verg's accuracy thus far), but I'm not gonna lie, you make a convincing argument.

I'm curious though, what are your thoughts on this in relation to Verg?

 

[Sephazon]

They also pretty much keep making the same game. When PokeMon was announced for the Switch, I was hoping for something more 3D and non-linear, like Poke-Breath of the Wild.

I mean holy ****, how much is PokeMon worth?! They seriously don't have enough money to make a game like that?!

I understand this stance. Personally, I believe we will receive an entirely new experience when the core series finally hits store shelves next years. Of course, I could be wrong, but I am optimistic. While it is true Pokémon doesn't try to raise the bar too high, I know from experience that the people who work on the games genuinely do try to put their best work and ideas into each entry in the series. That being said, I also believe that while not pushing the bar enough may hinder the brand in the future, Pokémon will always continue to be a console seller. After all, Pokémon is the best selling brand in history of media. Is there anything specific you are looking forward to in the future of the series?

You’re right, though. I just want Pokémon to...evolve? You’d think that would be their motto rather then the steps back they seem to be making. Sun and Moon were great because they moved passed the HM crap, but that took sooooo long. I wish they streamlined what made the game tedious(within reason) and made the core of the game a greater focus. I don’t wanna rub bellies, click sandbags, grind EV or IV, feed them puffins or go to fashion shows. I wanna be the best that no one ever was, catching them is my test and training them(TO FIGHT) is my cause.

I want challenges from trainers, gyms, leagues and champions to extend up to level 100. I don’t want to trade Pokémon that unreasonably causes them to evolve. I don’t want to spend time making them happy at a certain time of day. I want them to fight, evolve in ways that are fun or mysterious(see shedinja) instead of tedious and I want more Pokémon to feel viable when I decide to get online.

It just seems they could have progressed a little bit more since gen 3.

As I said above, the developers don't try to push the envelope too much as to ensure that people know what they're getting when each new game hits store shelves. Personally, I also want to feel challenged most of all. Speaking as a Pokémon fan and not as a brand ambassador or former associate, Pokémon needs to be able to convince players that each entry has something spectacular to offer while keeping the formula familiar. This can be difficult when developers may see no need to do so. If we take a look at Mario, who, while sticking to the platformer genre, usually tries something spectacularly new each instalment. The same is usually not seen for RPGs such as Final Fantasy. I want to see something new, but, in terms of sales as well as production time, they may not see a need to do so. Pokémon will continue to sell no matter what.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Oh god more Pokémon debates. Since everyone has been talking about Lycanroc recently, I might as well go deeper into this (obviously).

So starting off with the obvious question. Why would Sakurai pick Lycanroc of all things?

One of the things Sakurai looks when selecting new characters, and essentially a new Pokémon, is it’s uniqueness. Can this character stand out and bring in something new from the cast? Lycanroc easily fills this out, we’ve yet to see any character in Smash use earth like abilities, and the only move that was Rock based “Rock Smash” was removed. Having an earth based fighter can lead to interesting moves like spawning pillars and rock edges for Smash attacks and specials, etc. in ways that the cast hasn’t done. And that isn’t taking into account the other things like different forms, whatever boost mechanic Dusk has, and each forms unique attack and ability, and having two forms being a quadruped, this already kills a lot of birds with a single damn stone.

You can argue characters like Isaac can fill this motif, but even then, Isaac would include so many other things that he is well known that he can possibly pull from his gargantuan move list that Isaac and Lycanroc would be distinct enough to not be in each other’s way. (Not to mention the whole being a wolf and a Human sorcerer).

Now onto the next question, There’s tons of other possible unique Gen 7 Pokémon that can be unique, why does Lycanroc have an edge over them?

This is where it’s presence comes into play. Another aspect that Sakurai looks when selecting a new Pokémon is if the Pokémon is going to play a big part of the current generation, since A) usually the character who is main focus is the one that gets into Smash, and B) it would usually determine which is the most likely to be popular.

Lycanroc also wins here. Ever since the beginning of Sun and Moon’s run, Lycanroc has been played up to be a big part of Sun and Moon. The Midday and Midnight forms were big when they were first revealed and were being shown in the things like merchandise, advertising, and even held important roles during the Rockruff arc and were shown off the earliest in the anime. Not to mention the Midnight and Midday forms were shown to be popular among the Pokémon crowd. Not to mention, that Ash’s main Pokémon is a Lycanroc, and a new form, Dusk, which leads into another whole can of worms. Dusk has been one of the biggest Pokémon to have a presence this generation, ever since 2017 when it was first revealed to be advertised for USUM and became Ash’s main Pokémon for an entire year.

Incoming small rant:
Forget your damn murals, forget how Incineroar is out of the blue suddenly going to become this big thing for Ash when it’s been two years of development for Ash’s team, when his Litten JUST evolved into a torrocat a month ago when his Lycanroc/Rockruff had a major plot points for the past entire anime run, and the upcoming arc seems nothing related to Torrocat in any ways. It’s clear, Lycanroc was pushed from the start and has surpassed that of the starters. Even if Dusk wasn’t available, the Midday and Midnight forms still had a big presence even for the beginning of Gen 7.

Lycanroc has the benefit of BOTH presence AND uniqueness. That’s why they are people pushing the damn thing in the first place, if it didn’t have it’s unique abilities it would’ve been another Chrom situation, and clearly a lot of us learned that unless your an easy echo, this isn’t likely.

Finally, here’s one last question. What about their concept art? It doesn’t really stand out as much compared to the starters.

That is in fact a good question. However, one reference sheet alone isn’t enough to make a character.

In fact, Sakurai even said he received SEVERAL illustrations and references from Game Freak to decide on Greninja. The concept art is solely meant to show how they look like and maybe some in character actions, however, he most likely had more reference sheet at his disposal to simulate moves. And even then, Sakurai made sure he waited until X and Y were near the end of development to get more information about the Pokémon in general. The same could possibly apply here,with by waiting until early mid 2016, Sun and Moon, were practically done at that point and had more finalized design for all the Pokemon, allowing Sakurai more information about each of them to allow him to pick which is possibly the best option to choose from.

So what does this have to with Lycanroc? Well, Sakurai would have known about them being the planned big Pokémon stars of the seventh generation, and with how Sakurai always first looks into the characters’ potential moveset, he would’ve ended up learning more about them and with them being earth benders with multiple forms and unique abilites, and even it’s Dusk form, and exposed to what makes Lycanroc stand apart from everyone else.
———————————————————
So this is why I think Lycanroc is likely in my eyes. I used to believe that it would’ve been Decidueye and even Incineroar as a possibility when I first speculated about Smash Ultimate, but as the recent events unfolded and the more I learned about Lycanroc and what they can bring, they suddenly seemed like one of the most likely characters. Even with the recent speculation about Incineroar, I looked more into it and so far, Ash’s Litten JUST evolved in a previous episode with Kukui’s (Masked Royal’s) Incineroar, and with another arc that seems to be even more focused on Necromza and hints at Lycanroc playing a part yet again near the end of this year, it doesn’t seem plausible with how much their building Ash’s and his Lycanroc’s relationship so far.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm for the character, I feel there's a lot of assumptions of what Sakurai would do just because he did it for Greninja. Plus saying Sakurai would wait until later in 2016 for more information opens the book for other characters like Rex and Pyra. Their concepts weren't finalized until later in 2016 but with the logic you use for Lycanroc he could do the same with them if his project plan listed "new Xenoblade character", and I don't agree that that would happen, and the argument here is to delay the development of the game until the very latest just to improve Lycanroc's chances.

And let's not forget. Sakurai has already directly said he's using the ballot for newcomers.

 

[Wambo]

I write essays when I need to explain something in-depth, this isn’t the first time I did this.

This isn’t me being be mad or anything, just my full analysis on my perspective and trying to support it.

That was a massive wall of words... I mean, I've gone on Geno rants shorter than that.

No disrespect, but sheesh.

 

[Chrono.]

Even though I do believe it's fake..I would absolutely love to see the reaction on these Boards if the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak was somehow true~

Gardevoir would be a relatively okay choice.

Gothitelle would feel weird af. At least Gard is popular for better or worse, but Gothitelle isn't even relevant or popular. It'd be like Zelda getting Thunderbird as a rep.

 

[DevaAshera]

Nowhere did I say it was impossible. I said it requires more work than normal. And yes, I just said they can be tweaked too. That's the point I'm making.

My point is Gardevoir already clearly walks so it's pointless to make outright extremely different animations for her when she has better ones. Running is a different story. I"m only saying it requires a lot of work to make Gothitelle an Echo. Whether or not that would stop her from being one and turned into a clone is too hard to say.

We're on the same page, basically.

At the very least, you get why Dixie wasn't nearly as good of an example? That's all I was trying to say when replying about her.

But yeah, I'd rather if Gothitelle got in she was vastly more tweaked too, heh. But I'd like Dixie unique too. I guess it depends the character, really.

I suppose, I just thought the change of Diddy's tail and Dixie's hair would complicate matters more, though I do expect she'd have a few hair moves, like her dash attack being straight taken from DKC2/3.

In relation to Gothitelle..it is hard for me to think of many good reps for Gen 5 besides Zoroark..many just kinda faded or wouldn't work in Smash. I also chuckle remembering people believing Gothitelle would be as popular as Gardevoir..and then thinking it again with Tsareena.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You’re right, though. I just want Pokémon to...evolve?

Thats ****ing clever

Honestly, it's really hard for me to look at Smash 4 after watching a ****load of Ultimate footage. The game just looks so... for lack of a better word, "cheap"? I hate saying that since it feels like a huge insult to Sakurai and his team and the work they put into it. But if Smash 4 wasn't a thing, Ultimate wouldn't exist, so I still kinda appreciate it.

Part of me thinks that the reason Smash 4 was also so lackluster (imo) is because it was an attempt to save Wii U sales. Why bother to go all-out on a game that probably won't even sell that well?

Sakurai knows how to kill his own creation with a simple snap of a finger and a switch to a superior game console

 

[Sephazon]

I don't expect you to know the answer to this question, but do you know if Gamefreak really consider fan feedback?
Sometimes it feels like they're ignoring us and just doing whatever they want. Like Festival Plaza.

It's a difficult question, to be sure. First I must say that I speak for neither Game Freak nor the Pokémon brand. The way I see it is that the developers want to make a game they want to make and that will sell. That may not necessarily take feedback into consideration. When we look at Super Smash Bros., as an example, history tells us that while Masahiro Sakurai did not intend the series to be a competitive esport, it has gone down that route. Even so, he is blatantly taking feedback, not only into consideration, but full implementing it in the production of Ultimate. The Pokémon brand is so tightly controlled, I'm not entirely sure how feedback could even be given in a useful manner to those at the top of the food chain, which I don't believe to be Game Freak.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Agreed. It was a popular thought that Sakurai's "I hope you aren't expecting as many" newcomers line meant 2 or 3 max, but I never bought that. It was vague at best, and didn't take into consideration that the team had much, much more time to focus on on-the-brow content. Now here we are, some some theories even see as much as 9 more newcomers in addition to what we have already.

Wouldn't be shocked if Spirit's mode ends up being halfway between Adventure and Subspace, honestly.

I never believed it either. Sakurai is the troll of Nintendo. He always does that sort of thing. I am always doubting his numbers and figures until after release when he usually becomes more transparent.

I am expecting less cutscenes, but I wouldn’t be surprised either. SPIRITS shares the majority of the top menu with SMASH. It has to be worth considering in comparison.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Smash Fans: "Ridley and K.Rool may have gotten in, but that means nothing! Geno is an irrelevant character from one game! There's no way Sakurai will add him!"
Sakurai: "For this Smash game, I've been choosing highly requested characters from the Smash Ballot."
Smash Fans: "Yeah, Geno is a sure thing."

Jeez, talk about a huge ****ing 180 degree turn here the past few days. Not that I'm complaining, but I just find it kinda funny.

Well Geno is not nearly as important to the Mario series as K Rool and Ridley are to DK and Metroid, but he does have a following, especially in the Smash community. So that’s probably why

I'll take even a costume...

Or even seeing some Yoshi gameplay would be nice lol

 

[Arcanir]

To be fair to Incineroar, Ash's Torracat has had a good amount of focus and development given to him even ignoring the possible evolution. He had the whole Stoutland storyline, had behind-the-scenes training with Lycanroc, and is currently going through his own arc with Kukui's Incineroar, all three of which have given him much more attention then most of the other Pokémon on the show. So it wouldn't be like he jumped out of nowhere into the powerhouse role, there has been some build-up towards him maybe becoming one of the mainstays of Ash's team depending on how everything pans out for him.

However, I do agree that even if that happens, it doesn't mean all of Ash's Lycanroc's accomplishments go away. He still has two trials under his belt, a lion share of focus on his development, and has essentially been Ash's ace for some time. That still puts him as a prime contender as far as the anime is concerned, Incineroar's potential rise just means he's another contender alongside him.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Watch Sakurai just picked Incineroar because he likes cats

 

[Zinith]

Watch Sakurai just picked Incineroar because he likes cats

If that was the case, WHERE'S MEOWTH?!!!

 

[Noipoi]

I write essays when I need to explain something in-depth, this isn’t the first time I did this.

This isn’t me being be mad or anything, just my full analysis on my perspective and trying to support it.

Noipoi , you didn’t read all of it didn’t you?

Nah I read it. Pretty interesting, I just thought it was funny that you wrote so much about Pokemon.
No offense.

 

[DevaAshera]

I always kinda thought 'in relation to what' with that comment. I mean, if we get ten wholely new newcomers, it's still less then any game in the series, iirc.

 

[Impa4Smash]

If that was the case, WHERE'S MEOWTH?!!!

Poor Meowth. My boy got left behind

Although I’d rather no Meowth than have the abomination that is Alolan Meowth as the Gen 7 Rep

 

[Chrono.]

Watch Sakurai just picked Incineroar because he likes cats

The best reason.

 

[AzureFlame4]

If that was the case, WHERE'S MEOWTH?!!!

Or Lethe from Fire Emblem?

 

[ArkhaosZero]

I understand this stance. Personally, I believe we will receive an entirely new experience when the core series finally hits store shelves next years. Of course, I could be wrong, but I am optimistic. While it is true Pokémon doesn't try to raise the bar too high, I know from experience that the people who work on the games genuinely do try to put their best work and ideas into each entry in the series. That being said, I also believe that while not pushing the bar enough may hinder the brand in the future, Pokémon will always continue to be a console seller. After all, Pokémon is the best selling brand in history of media. Is there anything specific you are looking forward to in the future of the series?



As I said above, the developers don't try to push the envelope too much as to ensure that people know what they're getting when each new game hits store shelves. Personally, I also want to feel challenged most of all. Speaking as a Pokémon fan and not as a brand ambassador or former associate, Pokémon needs to be able to convince players that each entry has something spectacular to offer while keeping the formula familiar. This can be difficult when developers may see no need to do so. If we take a look at Mario, who, while sticking to the platformer genre, usually tries something spectacularly new each instalment. The same is usually not seen for RPGs such as Final Fantasy. I want to see something new, but, in terms of sales as well as production time, they may not see a need to do so. Pokémon will continue to sell no matter what.

Absolutely love seeing this level of insight, man. I feel like I could talk to you for days, this sort of thing interests me immensely haha.


Although it wasn't directed at me, I do feel very strongly about what I'd like to see in future entries, so allow me to interject...

There are 2 main problems that I have with Pokemon: They often throw away great ideas without improving on them, and they feel stuck in a Gameboy-era world structure.

Video games as a medium benefit much more than any other by being iterative. You can do the same thing again and make it better the second time. Pokemon has a slew of would-be great additions (custom pokeballs, super training, berry farms, berry incubators, roller skates) that would thoroughly improve future installments were they to become staples and be improved upon. This seems like a misunderstanding of the medium on Gamefreak's part.

I know people talk about an open world Pokemon a lot, and while that would be awesome, there's a multitude of ways to go about recapturing the "feeling of adventure". Pokemon feels like a claustrophobic hallway simulator where NPC's labelled as "friends" guide you the entire way. I dont believe kids lack the where-with-all to figure out Pokemon. I don't believe that kids need linearity to understand getting through a game. And, more importantly, kid's arent Pokemon's only demographic. So long as they could open the world up and let us travel at our own pace and explore unnecessary areas, I'd be fine. Perhaps progression would function like Xenoblade 1, where it is technically a linear journey, but feels unrestricted as you have thorough breathing room.

Really, I just want to go climb a random tree, go off the beaten path, and maybe find a cool rare Pokemon on my own accord. I've played every entry in the series, but DPPt onward has basically seen the main game as a huge obstacle to me until I get to the end game where I can play competitively. And, sadly, recent balance decisions have unfortunately made that a no-go for me..

 

[Wambo]

Is there anything specific you are looking forward to in the future of the series?

Better player customization, honestly. Gamefreak keeps making new "main character" designs for each PokeMon game (with very limited or no customization for them), so I hope to see them change that.

I always found this weird, too. Part of a character's design is supposed to suggest their personality and whatnot, but when the character you play as in PokeMon doesn't even have a personality and has no attachment to the world outside of "childhood best friends/rivals who've know them for years", it just seems pointless to restrict the player to a totally crazy design and not give them many options over how they look.

I'm a little tired so I might've worded that poorly, but do you know what I mean?

 

[Deleted member]

Thing is...we don't know for sure that Incineroar in the drawing must be proof that Ash will get one. For all we know, it could just be a little drawing to show off the design. Or it could be Kukui's Incineroar, from when he's in his Masked Royal persona!

And even if Ash does end up with one, things aren't adding up for it to suddenly take the ace role. Seriously, back in Kalos, his Greninja slowly got built up as being important even when it was still a Froakie. His Lycanroc has had that same buildup this time around, while his now-Torracat has hardly done anything since evolving! And yet, much of the Smash community has assumed that his Torracat must be about to evolve and must be set to become his ace, ignoring the evidence that the ace is already someone else, because...I don't know.

Another case where speculators keep digging their heels in on the first thing they see above all else...

You've been super anti-Incineroar and pro-Lycanroc since Day 1. Hell, I remember you specifically REFUSED to do an Incineroar video just because you personally felt it offered nothing for Smash, even going as far as making a video for Delphox instead. DELPHOX.
So you're obviously biased here and CLEARLY trying to discredit any notion of Incineroar showing up on Ash's team and being in Smash.

Am I biased for Incineroar? Yes. But at least I admit my own biases. And even disregarding my own bias towards Incineroar, there's still the fact that:

a. There's an ongoing rivalry/mentorship relationship present between Masked Royal's Incineroar and Torracat. That's how he evolved in the first place, and it still wasn't enough to make a win unlike usual cases where "Oh, Ash's Pokémon evolved, now it's going to win the battle". That trend was outright denied. And left with a "to be continued" seeing as we still see interactions between Incineroar and Torracat even after the initial episode.
They are setting up this development arc to end with Tiger vs. Tiger in classic Tiger Mask style where the "heroic" Tiger (Ash's) wins against the opposing Tiger.

b. Litten is consistently the member of the team with the most character development. You want to point out that Torracat "hasn't done much since evolving", yet you ignore that Litten's the only one with a real backstory and character arc. And is currently going through another arc as I pointed out in the previous point, though this one takes a back seat to the main plot. Could they be doing more with Torracat in the meantime? Yeah. But to argue there's no character arc present is wrong.

c. Torracat really doesn't have to do THAT much before evolving a second time if Steene is anything to go by. So to act as though "why do people think it's definitely going to evolve, they're so ****ing stupid because it's not doing anything worthwhile" is outrageous.

d. Lycanroc has never been established to be the ace, and the fact you think it already had shows the bias at work here. Yeah, it evolved early? They were promoting for Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon... It's used in battles a lot? Well no ****, it's the only member of the team that's fully evolved because it peaked real early (which aces NEVER DO). Of COURSE it'd be used more in battle. The mural? Not even of Ash's Lycanroc. You of all people should recognize a Midday Lycanroc when you see one.

e. Even ignoring the anime, there's also the I Choose You! film, representing the 20th Anniversary. You know which Pokémon was used as the antagonist's main Pokémon? Incineroar. Yeah, he had a Lycanroc too, but it was a Midnight and was just "there" (though admittedly less "just there" than Sorrel's Lucario) while Incineroar directly drove the plot for a good bit as an obstacle to overcome and forcing Ash through some character development.


Look, I get it. You're passionate about Lycanroc almost as much as I am about Incineroar.
But when you start ****ting on the latter while trying to overpraise the former, or worse, ****ting on the latter TO praise the former, you're overstepping your boundaries.
Especially when you've made such a bias against Incineroar clear in the past and are currently using that bias to speak slander just because people aren't worshiping the wolf god you are.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Incineroar's design is still really freakin cool. If we do get a gen 7 Pokemon I could see Sakurai seeing artwork for it and being like..."yes"

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

This isn't EXACTLY related to Smash chat, but as an aspiring game developer, I think I'm beginning to realize how Pokemon's core gameplay is flawed in a way that hinders gameplay variety WAY more than it should, and my be why it has become accused for being so stale over the past few installments.

The vast majority of traditional RPGs that I've seen and played have the player controlling a party of multiple characters at once, battling multiple enemies at once (unless its a boss). Having a full party to control and tweak in this manner, in a good RPG, enables for vast methods with which to experiment and strategize with what everyone in the party can do. Everyone has a niche.

Pokemon gives you a party, but almost every fight is strictly 1-on-1 instead of letting you use the full party to its maximum potential. As such, gameplay becomes homogenized - it loses the question of "how do I best go about this" and more or less devolves into rock-paper-scissors and spamming your strongest moves. This, in turn, makes combat feel extremely samey and bland and perhaps is one of the reasons the franchise has been accused of not changing it up for so long.

Even Yo-Kai Watch gets this right - half the party's fighting at once and you can rotate members out on the fly.

Anyways rant's over, carry on.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I understand this stance. Personally, I believe we will receive an entirely new experience when the core series finally hits store shelves next years. Of course, I could be wrong, but I am optimistic. While it is true Pokémon doesn't try to raise the bar too high, I know from experience that the people who work on the games genuinely do try to put their best work and ideas into each entry in the series. That being said, I also believe that while not pushing the bar enough may hinder the brand in the future, Pokémon will always continue to be a console seller. After all, Pokémon is the best selling brand in history of media. Is there anything specific you are looking forward to in the future of the series?



As I said above, the developers don't try to push the envelope too much as to ensure that people know what they're getting when each new game hits store shelves. Personally, I also want to feel challenged most of all. Speaking as a Pokémon fan and not as a brand ambassador or former associate, Pokémon needs to be able to convince players that each entry has something spectacular to offer while keeping the formula familiar. This can be difficult when developers may see no need to do so. If we take a look at Mario, who, while sticking to the platformer genre, usually tries something spectacularly new each instalment. The same is usually not seen for RPGs such as Final Fantasy. I want to see something new, but, in terms of sales as well as production time, they may not see a need to do so. Pokémon will continue to sell no matter what.

Spectacularly new is not even what I want from a Pokémon game. I just wish the game was more focused on what the game even advertises. Battle, capturing Pokémon, story, lore and fun. The mini games and fashion shows are tedious. Some may enjoy it, but even those folks didn’t buy Pokémon for that. The removal of some things is actually what would make it better. Such as removing HMs. Those causes problems that should never have been around. The ways in which Pokémon evolve, if not by leveling, should at least be fun or like a side quest. Shedinja and Glaceon are examples of evolutions that weren’t normal, but also weren’t tedious or demanded specific times of day. Specific times are terrible for people with a shedule.

Pokémon’s core mechanics are the selling point. That’s why it keeps selling. Not the above things they added...and hopefully will continue removing in favor of more focused design.

I know it’s work and I know now that the franchise is tightly controlled, but that’s how I feel, good sir.

 

[Onua]

tbh when it comes to echos, if I had to rate their chances

1. Isabelle - the most popular of the bunch
2. Ken - Theyve added a ton of SF songs and *loud sigh* Verge said hes in
3. Medusa - Fits palu to a tee, is a girl villain, the last nes villain left to add. Has almost nothing going against her
4. Shadow - missing AT and relatively popular. I dont see how ppl say hes locked tho
5. Dixie - Popular for sure but she might need a lil too much reworking (tho i still think she works perfectly fine)
6. Black Knight - would be higher, but his theme already being shown and the fact that we already got chrom makes me think sakurai might not push his luck here

 

[Impa4Smash]

All this unnecessary Incineroar and Lycanroc debating when Palossand is clearly gonna be the new rep

Like come on why would Sakurai say no to a playable sand castle

 

[BlueMagician]

If we take a look at Mario, who, while sticking to the platformer genre, usually tries something spectacularly new each instalment. The same is usually not seen for RPGs such as Final Fantasy.

I get the point you're trying to make, but Final Fantasy is not what you want to use in this example as the series' battle system changes quite a bit from game to game (sometimes dramatically). Try using Dragon Quest for this example instead.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I suppose, I just thought the change of Diddy's tail and Dixie's hair would complicate matters more, though I do expect she'd have a few hair moves, like her dash attack being straight taken from DKC2/3.

In relation to Gothitelle..it is hard for me to think of many good reps for Gen 5 besides Zoroark..many just kinda faded or wouldn't work in Smash. I also chuckle remembering people believing Gothitelle would be as popular as Gardevoir..and then thinking it again with Tsareena.

Genesect maybe? It has an excellent body shape for fighting, more than enough moves, and could use its Drive ability for a new mechanic.

I think it's more that Dixie only would require changes if Diddy has tail attacks. If he doesn't, there's no need. The tail attacks also are in a very different place from the hair, so that'd require way more animation changes to work(at least enough for a clone status). It's not like with Chrom's Up B which has Ike's animation tweaked. They're still very similar. I was however more meaning I don't know if Dixie could seriously get a retool of DK's Up B at all. I guess it might be doable if they just take the skeleton from his upper body, and apply it solely to the hair. Though I guess you could do that with R.O.B.'s spinning moves too, but I'm guessing it's not honestly as simple. From what I understand, DK and Dixie have about the same proportions too, so it might still be workable, just with tweaks. I'd love it if it happened, though.

 

[DarkFalcon]

All this unnecessary Incineroar and Lycanroc debating when Palossand is clearly gonna be the new rep

Like come on why would Sakurai say no to a playable sand castle

Real life Pokemon battle in the forum. Then there's a double KO and neither are in Smash.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Valkyrie

The 2nd

Spoiler: Ling Xiaoyu

The 3rd

Spoiler: Fi

Some requests I fulfilled that might fit the fancy of others here so, here they are!

 

[AzureFlame4]

Incineroar's design is still really freakin cool. If we do get a gen 7 Pokemon I could see Sakurai seeing artwork for it and being like..."yes"

I would say the same about Decidueye but everyone gave up on it.

 

[Noipoi]

It's a difficult question, to be sure. First I must say that I speak for neither Game Freak nor the Pokémon brand. The way I see it is that the developers want to make a game they want to make and that will sell. That may not necessarily take feedback into consideration. When we look at Super Smash Bros., as an example, history tells us that while Masahiro Sakurai did not intend the series to be a competitive esport, it has gone down that route. Even so, he is blatantly taking feedback, not only into consideration, but full implementing it in the production of Ultimate. The Pokémon brand is so tightly controlled, I'm not entirely sure how feedback could even be given in a useful manner to those at the top of the food chain, which I don't believe to be Game Freak.

I just want you to know you're a pretty cool guy for answering these questions and giving these insightful answers!

 

[Idon]

"Continuing the theme of listening to your feedback from Brawl, we are bringing the most wanted pokemon... SCEPTILE!"

 

[Zinith]

"Continuing the theme of listening to your feedback from Brawl, we are bringing the most wanted pokemon... SCEPTILE!"

Hey, I dig it...

 

[Impa4Smash]

tbh when it comes to echos, if I had to rate their chances

1. Isabelle - the most popular of the bunch
2. Ken - Theyve added a ton of SF songs and *loud sigh* Verge said hes in
3. Medusa - Fits palu to a tee, is a girl villain, the last nes villain left to add. Has almost nothing going against her
4. Shadow - missing AT and relatively popular. I dont see how ppl say hes locked tho
5. Dixie - Popular for sure but she might need a lil too much reworking (tho i still think she works perfectly fine)
6. Black Knight - would be higher, but his theme already being shown and the fact that we already got chrom makes me think sakurai might not push his luck here

I think Impa is fairly likely as well. But maybe I’m a bit biased

 

[Noipoi]

I would say the same about Decidueye but everyone gave up on it.

Blame it on the Verge.

 

[Luigi The President]

Can someone explain to me why the Gothitelle leak is still in the running when it explicitly namedropped Simon as not being in?
It's more deconfirmed then leaks we deconfirm. Why are we keeping it around?

 

[DarkFalcon]

I would say the same about Decidueye but everyone gave up on it.

I like cats so I've always preferred Incineroar. It's a wrestling cat how is that not cool? Still funny how Decidueye was the darling early on in speculation, then people were like nah.

 

[lizard1929]

I kinda prefer random 4chan that are all fake when compared verge.
As they don't kill characters chances and there is more variety