Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Momotsuki]

Naw, Dimentio is a good lackey...

Oh wait... nevermind

You just gave me an idea. Dimentio would make a great Assist Trophy. A REALLY great one.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's say Master Hand breaks a window. Bam, pacifist argument is defeated.

I never understood the "Isabelle is a pacifist" argument considering we have characters like Villager on the roster.

One of Smash's main appeals is that it takes characters who usually don't fight or would never be in a fighting game and puts them in a fighting game. No one's really off limits here as long as Sakurai can come up with a moveset for them.

 

[StupendousMike]

Controversial opinion - all the RPG-exclusive characters are highly forgettable.

I have really fond opinions of Vivian and Bobbery.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Analyses have been made before, which I agree with, that with 69 slots total for blog character posts so far, with an average of 3 character posts per week, we should have about 8-9 characters including echoes left, more or less depending on how the last few weeks go. My predictions are generally 8 newcomers left, 4 unique and 4 echoes, which is less unique newcomers than usual (which goes along with not expecting too many newcomers), but with echoes makes a decently sized roster. My current predictions are

Unique: Bandana Waddle Dee (75%), Incineroar (60%), Geno (75%), Banjo & Kazooie (50%)
Echoes: Dixie Kong (80%), Isabelle (75%), Shadow (90%), Ken (80%).

Safe predictions, so I do expect some to be replaced by surprise characters (and different from my predictions in my signature thanks to the new Verge leak, but I'm keeping it that way for posterity).

EDIT:

Honestly, that echo list is far more exciting than that newcomer list with the exception of Banjo.

I agree. The rumors have been less than stellar (for me personally), which is why I hope some are wrong, and certainly Sakurai has some tricks left up his sleeves to surprise. But it's better to go in with low expectations and be pleasantly surprised, rather than high expectations (I'm already preparing myself for the very likely disappointment of no B&K).

 

[DarkFalcon]

Analyses have been made before, which I agree with, that with 69 slots total for blog character posts so far, with an average of 3 character posts per week, we should have about 8-9 characters including echoes left, more or less depending on how the last few weeks go. My predictions are generally 8 newcomers left, 4 unique and 4 echoes, which is less unique newcomers than usual (which goes along with not expecting too many newcomers), but with echoes makes a decently sized roster. My current predictions are

Unique: Bandana Waddle Dee (75%), Incineroar (60%), Geno (75%), Banjo & Kazooie (50%)
Echoes: Dixie Kong (80%), Isabelle (75%), Shadow (90%), Ken (80%).

Safe predictions, so I do expect some to be replaced by surprise characters (and different from my predictions in my signature thanks to the new Verge leak, but I'm keeping it that way for posterity).

Honestly, that echo list is far more exciting than that newcomer list with the exception of Banjo.

 

[KMDP]

I was listening to music from Game & Watch Gallery (seriously, Nintendo, get this music in Smash), and listened to the Manhole theme, and remembered something.

Yoshi was the player character of Manhole.
He was also the player character for Vermin (which shows you what'll happen to you if you try to steal a Yoshi's eggs).

 

[Deleted member]

I'm going to hope beyond hope, as I replay Chrono Trigger, that the Square Enix rep is actually two reps: Crono and Magus; both with a different Triple Tech as their Final Smash (so that all main characters have cameos).

 

[Deleted member]

I know I bring 'em up a lot, but for the sake of speculation discussion, how likely do people here feel the Octolings are for base roster Echo?

I absolutely hate to say this, but I feel like it's probably only a 20% chance thing. I do feel like they'd be pretty high up the food chain for DLC, though.

 

[Momotsuki]

While this is unlikely, what would your thoughts be if new original fighters were paid DLC and Echo Fighters were free updates?

 

[Chrono.]

Analyses have been made before, which I agree with, that with 69 slots total for blog character posts so far, with an average of 3 character posts per week, we should have about 8-9 characters including echoes left, more or less depending on how the last few weeks go. My predictions are generally 8 newcomers left, 4 unique and 4 echoes, which is less unique newcomers than usual (which goes along with not expecting too many newcomers), but with echoes makes a decently sized roster. My current predictions are

Unique: Bandana Waddle Dee (75%), Incineroar (60%), Geno (75%), Banjo & Kazooie (50%)
Echoes: Dixie Kong (80%), Isabelle (75%), Shadow (90%), Ken (80%).

Safe predictions, so I do expect some to be replaced by surprise characters (and different from my predictions in my signature thanks to the new Verge leak, but I'm keeping it that way for posterity).

Tfw the echoes in this list are more hype to me than the unique ones (sans Incineroar.)

Though I don't dislike the picks, just not attached to them in any way beyond "yeah they'd be aight."

 

[Paperchampion23]

Analyses have been made before, which I agree with, that with 69 slots total for blog character posts so far, with an average of 3 character posts per week, we should have about 8-9 characters including echoes left, more or less depending on how the last few weeks go. My predictions are generally 8 newcomers left, 4 unique and 4 echoes, which is less unique newcomers than usual (which goes along with not expecting too many newcomers), but with echoes makes a decently sized roster. My current predictions are

Unique: Bandana Waddle Dee (75%), Incineroar (60%), Geno (75%), Banjo & Kazooie (50%)
Echoes: Dixie Kong (80%), Isabelle (75%), Shadow (90%), Ken (80%).

Safe predictions, so I do expect some to be replaced by surprise characters (and different from my predictions in my signature thanks to the new Verge leak, but I'm keeping it that way for posterity).

I also think we need to think for minute and realize that the character features could easily increase weekly or just continue past the release date, but I do agree that being conservative (4 more uniques and echoes) is the best idea.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I always see a lot of final roster prediction unique wise as some combination of Geno, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid and Incineroar, with the occasional Elma or Banjo. Honestly I feel the final roster is probably going to be way off from what we have been predicting as usual. Just like with R.O.B & Wolf, Bowser. Jr & Duck Hunt Duo, and Cloud Corrin, and Bayonetta.

 

[StupendousMike]

While this is unlikely, what would your thoughts be if new original fighters were paid DLC and Echo Fighters were free updates?

I'd be down. That actually seems reasonable, and also like something Nintendo would do.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I wouldn't say they're forgettable, Fawful is a big standout for me. But I definitely think none of them should be in Smash

YOU BEST NOT BE TALKIN' TRASH ABOUT O'CHUNKS LADDIE

I have really fond opinions of Vivian and Bobbery.

...I was referring to the ones from Super Mario RPG specifically...

Though I haven't played any Paper Mario game all the way through. Same for the Mario & Luigi games except for Bowser's Inside Story.

 

[DevaAshera]

That's not a quick animation. Those are completely different movement patterns. You're forgetting how they jump. Gardevoir dances around and skips when running alone. There's little reason to make it waddle like a penguin(which Gothitelle can't even move at the same speed with tiny legs) just for the sake of it. They can't move the same speed, have vastly different animations, their skeletons are outright different to begin with(there's slight similarities in their models, but again, 100% different dress animations). It's not the kicks alone. It's how they jump. Gothitelle's entire dress barely changes. It can't just flow upwards at all during a jump. It barely bends. Gardevoir's dress is more like a bunch of ribbons.

Neither Gardevoir nor Gothitelle run normally, both float in a very similar fashion, albeit Gardevoir's being more energetic, but it could be tweaked for either or both in Smash, though it's not like Ganondorf ran like Capt. Falcon.

All that would really need to be done is altering the dress effects. For other movements, Dark Samus already shows us how different animations can be between the Original and the Echo.
You're also basing how they jump off of the anime, presumably, which Smash doesn't have to follow 1:1. Gothitelle's 'dress' is in sections, it could believably bend similarly to an accordion.

Now I don't believe the leak is true, regardless of how much I want Gardevoir in the game, but there are various ways to make Gothitelle work as an Echo Fighter of Gardevoir..Sakurai is a very creative guy to begin with and they do have similar animations in the games themselves.

Not to mention we're all saying Dixie could be an Echo for Diddy and you know a lot of animations will have to change there.

I beat Mario RPG just a few years ago and I don't remember encountering Boshi.

Boshi is a big part of Yo'ster Isle, but it isn't a mandatory location.

He is mandatory to complete the game

No it isn't, Yo'ster Isle is completely optional.

 

[PeridotGX]

I know I bring 'em up a lot, but for the sake of speculation discussion, how likely do people here feel the Octolings are for base roster Echo?

I absolutely hate to say this, but I feel like it's probably only a 20% chance thing. I do feel like they'd be pretty high up the food chain for DLC, though.

Hugely underpredicted. They did say this year is the "Year of the Octoling", and I imagine they would have a little more then the DLC to make that statement. And as seen by Melee Roy, clones (or now echoes) can happen late into development.

 

[Will]

While this is unlikely, what would your thoughts be if new original fighters were paid DLC and Echo Fighters were free updates?

I had the idea before. Nintendo loves money more than people think they do, they'll probably charge the 2.99 deal like they did Veterans.

 

[BlueMagician]

I know I bring 'em up a lot, but for the sake of speculation discussion, how likely do people here feel the Octolings are for base roster Echo?

I absolutely hate to say this, but I feel like it's probably only a 20% chance thing. I do feel like they'd be pretty high up the food chain for DLC, though.

I'm not expecting them in the base, but if they get in as DLC, I don't think they'd be echoes. I think they'd want the Octolings to show off Splatoon 2 in some way and change a lot of stuff.

 

[Hinata]

You just gave me an idea. Dimentio would make a great Assist Trophy. A REALLY great one.

Dimentio takes everyone to Dimension D, with the intent to power up only the one who summoned him. Of course, because of the way Dimension D works, everyone in the fight gets powered up.

 

[Idon]

Honestly, these "your reaction if" games really don't appeal to me because the only reaction at this point I have for these characters is:

 

[DooplissWizard]

You just gave me an idea. Dimentio would make a great Assist Trophy. A REALLY great one.

YESSSSS!!! There are so many things he could do! Increase knockback by turning the stage into Dimension D, clone himself and shoot magic blasts like in his boss battle, use Floro Sprouts as some kind of status condition... He's probably my most wanted Assist Trophy (though I wouldn't say no to him as a playable character...)

Anyway, just the mad ramblings of a Super Paper Mario fanboy. Carry on!

EDIT: Dang it, my Dimension D idea got ninja'd.

 

[KMDP]

No it isn't, Yo'ster Isle is completely optional.

It's mandatory in Zinith's heart.

 

[Chrono.]

Honestly, these "your reaction if" games really don't appeal to me because the only reaction at this point I have for these characters is:

View attachment 159657​

Even if it was Demi-Fiend?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Honestly, these "your reaction if" games really don't appeal to me because the only reaction at this point I have for these characters is:

View attachment 159657​

Ok, your reaction if...an SMT character gets in?



I get what you mean. We keep talking about the same group of 'most likely' characters, and none of them really do much for me. I'll just have to console myself with

 

[Zinith]

It's mandatory in Zinith's heart.

I could've sworn it was mandatory, but it seems you can just bypass the pipe.

Also I tend to 100% complete games

 

[Noipoi]

You just gave me an idea. Dimentio would make a great Assist Trophy. A REALLY great one.

Dimentio could be a good Assist trophy, but you know who'd be a good boss?


MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI-

 

[Jibblypuff_]

It's probably been mentioned but

 

[Deleted member]

Hugely underpredicted. They did say this year is the "Year of the Octoling", and I imagine they would have a little more then the DLC to make that statement. And as seen by Melee Roy, clones (or now echoes) can happen late into development.

Man, I hope so lol. Even if they don't happen, it's nothing I'll be too bummed out about. Inklings being playable is enough for me, as that was the #1 reason why the final DLC for Smash Wii U left such a bad taste in my mouth. I kinda convinced myself Inkling was happening back then when I really shouldn't have, ha ha.

That said...I would absolutely go nuts if Octolings made it in, even as an Echo. It would be the best possible "cherry on top" moment for me, lol. Even if the odds are low IMO, I'm still hoping!

...I'm also hoping for Isabelle, too, and TBH I'm getting a little antsy for her. How many unrevealed ATs were there, again?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Oh man, maybe it's just because I haven't played in a while but I just can't beat Mewtwo with Sheik.

 

[praline]

Well if Vergeben and his source are solid, then we are getting another Square Enix rep in the list. Most people assume it's Geno at this point due to everything the past 4 years with him.

I want Geno in Smash but I kinda hope this is Erdrick we are getting, with Eight as an echo fighter.

 

[RandomAce]

The roster is one of the first things decided upon. I don't think anything would have changed even if they completely finalized it in 2016. I'm not telling you to stop believing, but considering the timing, if a 7th gen Pokemon was decided upon, it'd be a Greninja situation, and I'm not sure Lycanroc really had all that fascinating concept art. That is to say if we even get a new Pokemon rep considering Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur are all back.

Although I don’t think concept art would be the only thing Sakurai would get, he’d probably get a summary or something more detailed about Lycanroc as whole and what they do, etc, I can see why your hesistant on them (or flat out not want).

We’ll see though. I’m still hoping.

 

[Nethermoosen]

It's mandatory in Zinith's heart.

Neither Gardevoir nor Gothitelle run normally, both float in a very similar fashion, albeit Gardevoir's being more energetic, but it could be tweaked for either or both in Smash, though it's not like Ganondorf ran like Capt. Falcon.
View attachment 159655

All that would really need to be done is altering the dress effects. For other movements, Dark Samus already shows us how different animations can be between the Original and the Echo.
You're also basing how they jump off of the anime, presumably, which Smash doesn't have to follow 1:1. Gothitelle's 'dress' is in sections, it could believably bend similarly to an accordion.

Now I don't believe the leak is true, regardless of how much I want Gardevoir in the game, but there are various ways to make Gothitelle work as an Echo Fighter of Gardevoir..Sakurai is a very creative guy to begin with and they do have similar animations in the games themselves.

Not to mention we're all saying Dixie could be an Echo for Diddy and you know a lot of animations will have to change there.

Boshi is a big part of Yo'ster Isle, but it isn't a mandatory location.

No it isn't, Yo'ster Isle is completely optional.

Yo’ster Isle is required to complete....COMPLETE....the game. But it most certainly is optional.

 

[Deleted member]

It's probably been mentioned but

Probably just a fourth break wall gag to show the fans, but if this hints Elma in Smash, that would be really cool.

 

[Deleted member]

I know I bring 'em up a lot, but for the sake of speculation discussion, how likely do people here feel the Octolings are for base roster Echo?

I absolutely hate to say this, but I feel like it's probably only a 20% chance thing. I do feel like they'd be pretty high up the food chain for DLC, though.

I used to think that it would be impossible. Why would they have an Echo for a character that was just introduced? It doesnt make sense!

Then Simon came along, said Hi, and was quickly followed in by Richter, so....it's not impossible. I kinda feel like they'd focus on some new characters for games that have no presentation yet (ARMs, Golden Sun, Mario RPG series) or old classics that haven't gotten a new rep in ages or have few reps (Zelda, Earthbound, PunchOut, Etc).

I get the feeling that the last remaining characters will all be 1st party characters and Echoes and if...IF...Verg's right and we get a SE rep; it'll be a character who was always associated with the Nintendo anyway like Geno, Crono, Erdrick, or Neku. And since Nintendo owns the rights to the DK characters, Dixie is still possible (unique or Echo) as she wouldn't be a 3rd party character. The safest bet for what's left is most likely nothing but Nintendo-owned characters and only one last 3rd party (which will probably be saved for the last reveal).

 

[Paperchampion23]

I always see a lot of final roster prediction unique wise as some combination of Geno, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid and Incineroar, with the occasional Elma or Banjo. Honestly I feel the final roster is probably going to be way off from what we have been predicting as usual. Just like with R.O.B & Wolf, Bowser. Jr & Duck Hunt Duo, and Cloud Corrin, and Bayonetta.

I'd usually 100% agree with this sentiment, but with recent confirmation that Sakurai is looking at the Ballot for the roster and the fact that we've been getting nearly universal top fighter picks so far, many people choose these characters for those reasons. Also, obscurity or relevancy almost has nothing to do with it. Many of the characters we've gotten so far this time are super irrelevant (with some not featured in games for almost 2 decades).

Bandana Dee: Ridiculously popular in Japan, it would be their next top pick after K. Rool

Geno: Sakurai personally wants him and his Mii costume got special treatment. Plus he's popular WW.

Isaac: Popular WW (moreso the west) similarly to Geno.

Banjo: Popular WW like Isaac and Geno

Skull Kid actually almost has nothing to do with popularity (he is popular, and has been for years), it's the fact he has clear signs in the game for being speculated to be in. Check my post history for those reasons. And no, they have nothing to do with chairs lol.

 

[Momotsuki]

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly Sonic was thrown into Brawl late into development and wasn't initially planned.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

I'm late on the Elma discussion but if she's in, her and Bayonetta can have sliding gun fights. Sliding. Gun fights.

Just saying.

Yeah, I hope she makes it in.

 

[Chrono.]

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly Sonic was thrown into Brawl late into development and wasn't initially planned.

Which then proceeded to delay the game.

Giving us the weirdest case of hype and blue balls of all time.

 

[KMDP]

It's probably been mentioned but

Nia, why are you walking around in your pajamas?

This isn't Shantae Jammies Mode!

 

[Noipoi]

Which then proceeded to delay the game.

Giving us the weirdest case of hype and blue balls of all time.

Well, considering the fact that it was Sonic blue balls were inevitable.