Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DarkFalcon]

It was the first project proposal.

Source Gaming made the mistake where the summarized tweet states it’s the finalized (I feel they did this to make it seem more like they had concrete info to gain more traction), but the direct article translation states it was the first proposal, the roster was most likely finalized around early 2016, the proposal most likely had everyone returning and the statement about how most characters would be from the ballot.

The roster is one of the first things decided upon. I don't think anything would have changed even if they completely finalized it in 2016. I'm not telling you to stop believing, but considering the timing, if a 7th gen Pokemon was decided upon, it'd be a Greninja situation, and I'm not sure Lycanroc really had all that fascinating concept art. That is to say if we even get a new Pokemon rep considering Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur are all back.

 

[Noipoi]

The roster is one of the first things decided upon. I don't think anything would have changed even if they completely finalized it in 2016. I'm not telling you to stop believing, but considering the timing, if a 7th gen Pokemon was decided upon, it'd be a Greninja situation, and I'm not sure Lycanroc really had all that fascinating concept art. That is to say if we even get a new Pokemon rep considering Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur are all back.

I dunno why having previous Pokemon characters makes a new one less likely. Could we not get one? yes. But I don't think it's because everyone is here.

 

[NintenRob]

Odds are, this won't help Lycanroc by any means. The Dusk form is already hindered by its pure quadrupedal status, and it doesn't have psychic powers to make up for it.

Couldn't it just carry guns and stuff in its thick fluff above it. Ivysaur is also a Quad and Pichu in Melee had to hold every thing it's mouth

 

[Momotsuki]

Let's say Master Hand breaks a window. Bam, pacifist argument is defeated.

 

[Onua]

Heres my list of the most likely possible newcomers barring a lot of random 3rd party picks
I think we might get at most 6-9 newcomers (echoes included)

Bandanna Dee
Skull Kid
Isaac
Banjo
A new Pokemon of some kind
Geno
Elma
Black Knight (Echo)
Dixie (Echo)
Medusa (Echo)
Shadow (Echo)
Ken (Echo)
Isabelle (Echo)

All of these would make sense but we will have to see. I personally dont think we will be getting another 3rd party character until DLC at this point. So I think it might be a safe bet to guess we get nintendo chars from here on out.
Again my guesses and opinions could be wrong but I feel that I have a lot of logic behind them to think that they are solid guesses and predictions

 

[Idon]

I think a thing people are forgetting tho is like its not like anyone is truly out of left field completely in smash outside of like maybe Cloud, but hes iconic enough to justify his inclusion due to his mark on gaming as a whole. Even the characters that people call "wtf picks" still have some p good reasons as to why they are in.

Ironically the only exception to this at all is actually back in smash 4 lmfao. He was honestly the most "wtf" character in that game. The rest of the newcomers in every smash game all make sense logically and in the greater scheme of nintendo and video games as a whole.

Also its not some rule that we need a wtf pick or a retro pick every game. Or a new poke rep, or whatever. Thats just fan rules weve created at this point. So dont be super shocked if we might not get all of these fan made choices that we seem to be convinced of getting.

From the project pitches for Smash 4, and how he considered Duck Hunt the intentional "surprise pick," I believe Sakurai actually does consider putting in lesser known characters for their surprise potential.

 

[Noipoi]

Couldn't it just carry guns and stuff in its thick fluff above it. Ivysaur is also a Quad and Pichu in Melee had to hold every thing it's mouth

What about the hammer? Duck Hunt is literally a Looney Toon so he gets a pass, but Lycanroc is supposed to move realistically.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Heres my list of the most likely possible newcomers barring a lot of random 3rd party picks
I think we might get at most 6-9 newcomers (echoes included)

Bandanna Dee
Skull Kid
Isaac
Banjo
A new Pokemon of some kind
Black Knight (Echo)
Dixie (Echo)
Medusa (Echo)
Shadow (Echo)
Ken (Echo)
Isabelle (Echo)

All of these would make sense but we will have to see. I personally dont think we will be getting another 3rd party character until DLC at this point. So I think it might be a safe bet to guess we get nintendo chars from here on out.
Again my guesses and opinions could be wrong but I feel that I have a lot of logic behind them to think that they are solid guesses and predictions

Well if Vergeben and his source are solid, then we are getting another Square Enix rep in the list. Most people assume it's Geno at this point due to everything the past 4 years with him.

 

[StupendousMike]

I think a majority of people don't even know Boshi exists. I sure didn't until recently.

I beat Mario RPG just a few years ago and I don't remember encountering Boshi.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I dunno why having previous Pokemon characters makes a new one less likely. Could we not get one? yes. But I don't think it's because everyone is here.

Entirely possible, but then that goes back to Sakurai saying he used the ballot when deciding upon characters. There's several points against Lycanroc in my opinion and the points for him relate to more recent things when we already know when the game's roster was decided upon which counteract those points. Could I be wrong? sure, but I don't think if Sakurai saw any concept art of new Pokemon that Lycanroc particularly stands out.

 

[Onua]

Well if Vergeben and his source are solid, then we are getting another Square Enix rep in the list. Most people assume it's Geno at this point due to everything the past 4 years with him.

I dont like believing leakers and I dont trust vergeban. I wouldnt be surprised if Geno makes it in honestly but I still dont trust verge

 

[Zinith]

I beat Mario RPG just a few years ago and I don't remember encountering Boshi.

He is mandatory to complete the game

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well if Vergeben and his source are solid, then we are getting another Square Enix rep in the list. Most people assume it's Geno at this point due to everything the past 4 years with him.

We've been supporting Geno for at least the last 12 years

Geno speculation goes back further then that too

 

[NintenRob]

What about the hammer? Duck Hunt is literally a Looney Toon so he gets a pass, but Lycanroc is supposed to move realistically.

Hmmm, just move side or use rocks? I doubt it'd ever be a reason for a character not to be in

 

[Noipoi]

Entirely possible, but then that goes back to Sakurai saying he used the ballot when deciding upon characters. There's several points against Lycanroc in my opinion and the points for him relate to more recent things when we already know when the game's roster was decided upon which counteract those points. Could I be wrong? sure, but I don't think if Sakurai saw any concept art of new Pokemon that Lycanroc particularly stands out.

Those are some good points but i'm not talking about Lycanroc in particular, just a new Pokemon in general.

 

[StupendousMike]

He is mandatory to complete the game

I genuinely don't remember him in the context of the game. I'm certain you're right, thats just my recollection.

 

[DarkFalcon]

He is mandatory to complete the game

I got far enough in SMRPG on the SNES Classic to encounter him and I still forgot he existed.

 

[Momotsuki]

I don't fully trust Vergeben but I want to, since my most wanted is among his claims, but then I also don't want to risk disappointment no matter the size of the risk.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Also its not some rule that we need a wtf pick or a retro pick every game. Or a new poke rep, or whatever. Thats just fan rules weve created at this point. So dont be super shocked if we might not get all of these fan made choices that we seem to be convinced of getting.

Definitely, especially since prospective future games may get more fan support influence, so that picks that make sense to the Smash scene and confuse everyone else will be more commonplace.

If anything, I'm more interested in what underdog winners, like Simon and Richter, might show up next.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I beat Mario RPG just a few years ago and I don't remember encountering Boshi.

Controversial opinion - all the RPG-exclusive characters are highly forgettable.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't fully trust Vergeben but I want to, since my most wanted is among his claims, but then I also don't want to risk disappointment no matter the size of the risk.

You and me both mate, you and me both.
Incineroar, isabelle, and Geno is the dream for me.

 

[KMDP]

Nah, it's blue in Fire Emblem, at least. Navarre shows that blue isn't a stand-in for black.

The blue hair is likely just for gameplay integration, since your characters are classically noted as blue and the enemy units as red.

But Opossum, if Blue Hair Colour in Fire Emblem is a stand-in for playability, that means the Celica, Titania and Hinoka are the enemy.

I don't know, how did you determine the amount of supporters in it?

Hmm... I can't actually remember. I've counted so many supporters they all kinda blur together.

It's not unlikely that Mallow has seen a slight boost in the last week or so, he's even been in a few "leaks" here and there.

 

[NintenRob]

Controversial opinion - all the RPG-exclusive characters are highly forgettable.

I wouldn't say they're forgettable, Fawful is a big standout for me. But I definitely think none of them should be in Smash

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I did NOT remember that Yoshi island place being mandatory. I always thought it was a secret area.

It might be and I always just blank it out.

I don't like that Yoshi race section

 

[Dee Dude]

Honestly, it seems kinda apparent that both Retro and WTF pick are both different categories.

Retro-

WTF-

Game & Watch and ROB are also technically but were seen with more shock value then anything.

 

[Paperchampion23]

We've been supporting Geno for at least the last 12 years

Geno speculation goes back further then that too

I'm talking about other things the past 4 years. I've been right there supporting Geno too, just not here and as a lurker.

The things I mean are his Mii costume getting special attention (which additionally means that Square gave Sakurai permission to even use Geno in this way) as well as the 2016 interview that confirms Sakurai's want for Geno dating back to Brawl.

 

[BlueMagician]

Let's say Master Hand breaks a window. Bam, pacifist argument is defeated.

I've been trying to find a screenshot of this for a while, thanks.

Now we add other things like the soap thing that always seems to work, and...

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

We get gen 7 starter and it's not decidueye nor incineroar.

Spoiler

 

[Noipoi]

Controversial opinion - all the RPG-exclusive characters are highly forgettable.

YOU BEST NOT BE TALKIN' TRASH ABOUT O'CHUNKS LADDIE

 

[Momotsuki]

With the sheer amount for support for Geno, as well as the fact that popular picks are an ongoing theme for non-Echo newcomers, I think the only way Geno isn't in is if Square does... well, what Square likes to do for some reason.

 

[Noipoi]

We get gen 7 starter and it's not decidueye nor incineroar.

Spoiler

Best possible timeline

 

[Momotsuki]

YOU BEST NOT BE TALKIN' TRASH ABOUT O'CHUNKS LADDIE

O'Chunks is Bleck's best lackey. Fact.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Couldn't it just carry guns and stuff in its thick fluff above it. Ivysaur is also a Quad and Pichu in Melee had to hold every thing it's mouth

Ivysaur has vines for carrying items, which overcomes its quadrupedal handicap. As for Pichu, it's not a pure quad, and as such, it could lift two-handed items with its arms.

Lycanroc does not have vines or psychic powers, and only the Midnight form has a bipedal stature.

 

[Deleted member]

We get gen 7 starter and it's not decidueye nor incineroar.

Spoiler

The worst timeline.

 

[Paperchampion23]

With the sheer amount for support for Geno, as well as the fact that popular picks are an ongoing theme for non-Echo newcomers, I think the only way Geno isn't in is if Square does... well, what Square likes to do for some reason.

Which would be EXTREMELY odd this time considering they already have Sakurai rights to make a Mii costume to sell for Nintendo.

 

[Zinith]

Here's something I'll point out about Boshi. He was ahead of his time in terms of being a part of a Mario species. If you notice in SMRPG that all original characters are either 1. not a part of a pre-existing Mario species (Geno, Mallow, Smithy, Frogfucious, Croco, etc.) or 2. has no distinct design from each other (the various Toads). Boshi is the exception, and he would've fit very well into the later Mario RPGs and maybe even the other Mario games.

 

[HyruleHero]

Hate to distract from the current debate, but I'm a bit bored and just thought I'd get people's opinions....or in more common board terms...Play a Game.
I just want to see what people would choose given the following restrictions: 4 first-party Newcomers, 1 third-party newcomer that HASN'T been highly requested yet (Geno, Shadow, Bajo-Kazooie), 2 Echoes for already confirmed characters.

For me, it would be:

(1st party Newcomers)
1. Skull Kid (Zelda)
2. Isaac (Golden Sun)
3. Medusa (Kid Icarus)
4. Elma or Rex&Pyra (Xenoblade)

(3rd Party Newcomer)
5. Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Probably my most wanted 3rd party character

(Echoes)
6. Gallade/Gardivour (echo for Lucario aura effects switched for psychic effects gets rid of rage mechanic)
7. Dixie Kong (not sure if it counts because I know she's highly requested but i couldn't think of anyone else)

 

[blazefan519]

We get gen 7 starter and it's not decidueye nor incineroar.

Spoiler

Even as a Incineroar gal, I would not be opposed to this.

 

[Zinith]

O'Chunks is Bleck's best lackey. Fact.

Naw, Dimentio is a good lackey...

Oh wait... nevermind

 

[Paperchampion23]

Yo, people really need to get on that Silvally bandwagon. Imagine if all 18 types were incorporated into its moveset? I just feel like failure Arceus is just such a great choice. And we already have Bulbasaur so quadrapedal characters can exist.