Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ThyCheshireCat]

When the heck does Waddle Dee have a voice?

Bandanna Dee doesn't have a voice actor, but he does speak via text in a few Kirby games like Super Star and also that one fighting game where it was about cake n stuff.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Just posted something i posted on GameFAQs and i'm gonna post it here too.

Spoiler: In here

Basically The big series, Mario, Doneky Kong, TLoZ, Pokemon, FE, Kirby, and Metroid had never gone two games in a row without receiving a rep since their debut in Smash.

Currently TLoZ, Kirby and Pokemon don't have a character... the former two didn't get a character last game. (let's be real... Kirby got hardly anything at all last game.)

Of course only four/five games exist yet so this isn't the most solid theory but don't be surprised if TLoZ, and Kirby get a rep in Ultimate. (of course Pokemon will.)

What is your opinion on this, do you think any of these series don't count as big ones? or that the idea is baseless? or do you agree that this is suspicious... please do tell me what you think!

I personally think that under Pokemon and Mario, 2 series that are bound to likely get 1 or 2 newcomers per game, there are 4 other major Nintendo series: Zelda, DK, Kirby and Metroid. All 4 did not receive any newcomers since Brawl. Now 2 of the 4 have received their most popular newcomers (K. Rool and Ridley).

I'm in the field that while we may be getting newcomers from other series, Sakurai is also playing it safe with the smaller newcomer amount. This means that Zelda and Kirby may also get newcomers, such as Skull Kid and Bandana Dee. On top of this, Pokemon and Mario will likely get at least 1 more newcomer each (as they have). For Mario, I'd guess Geno, even while being a 3rd party, will still likely count as a Mario character. For Pokemon, that's anyone's guess.

That right there could be our final 4: Dee, Geno, Skull Kid and a Pokemon rep. All 4 have their merits, ranging from actual popularity (Dee and Geno), to Sakurai directly wanting them (Geno), to having actual hints they may be in the game (Skull Kid), to just usually having a newcomer (Pokemon).

On top of this, I could see some other surprises, namely Banjo and Isaac due to popularity and being new franchises like Catlevania and Splatoon joining, but they, unlike the above, are not safe guesses in my eyes. There could be any number of other franchises Sakurai picks, but these are probably the most popular.


While im good with the roster we have, I'm honestly hoping for the 5 sans Pokemon to happen (since Pokemon is always guaranteed usually). Especially because it will end 10 years of a lot of wants and predictions on this very forum.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It might confirm there are no OTHER Kirby characters that are going to be in Smash

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

I personally think that under Pokemon and Mario, 2 series that are bound to likely get 1 or 2 newcomers per game, there are 4 other major Nintendo series: Zelda, DK, Kirby and Metroid. All 4 did not receive any newcomers since Brawl. Now 2 of the 4 have received their most popular newcomers (K. Rool and Ridley).

I'm in the field that while we may be getting newcomers from other series, Sakurai is also playing it safe with the smaller newcomer amount. This means that Zelda and Kirby may also get newcomers, such as Skull Kid and Bandana Dee. On top of this, Pokemon and Mario will likely get at least 1 more newcomer each (as they have). For Mario, I'd guess Geno, even while being a 3rd party, will still likely count as a Mario character. For Pokemon, that's anyone's guess.

That right there could be our final 4: Dee, Geno, Skull Kid and a Pokemon rep. All 4 have their merits, ranging from actual popularity (Dee and Geno), to Sakurai directly wanting them (Geno), to having actual hints they may be in the game (Skull Kid), to just usually having a newcomer (Pokemon).

On top of this, I could see some other surprises, namely Banjo and Isaac due to popularity and being new franchises like Catlevania and Splatoon joining, but they, unlike the above, are not safe guesses in my eyes. There could be any number of other franchises Sakurai picks, but these are probably the most popular.


While im good with the roster we have, I'm honestly hoping for the 5 sans Pokemon to happen (since Pokemon is always guaranteed usually). Especially because it will end 10 years of a lot of wants and predictions on this very forum.

That pretty much exactly what i was thinking... our opinions on the matter are similar it seems.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

People discussion Gardevoir/Gothitelle because it's interesting/fun to argue if it works, unrelated to if the "leak" being real or fake. Please don't complain about people discussing stuff.

That's fine. Though it was supposed to be sarcastic, my apologies if I sound irritated about these certain leaks. More of a not seeing the unexpected, even if its possible type of guy. everyone needs information overload.

While Tracer is the logical first pick for Overwatch, but I would much rather have Reaper as the second character.
Shotgun, Grenade Launcher (from cinematic trailer), some Wraithform, Shadowstep Recovery and Death Blossom as Final Smash.

That would be an amazing idea. I always thought Reaper was cool, but its either Tracer (maybe Widowmaker) or nothing.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Dude I've never heard BWD have a voice of any kind in the games

EDIT: I can't read, but cryptic text is cryptic text, throw it in the recycling bin instead of the trash.

Waddle Dee apparently makes weird gurgling noises in Battle Royale, but that game is of dubious canonicity anyway, so you can take it or leave it.

 

[blazefan519]

A little late to the discussion this time. What's happening, guys?

 

[Onua]

The biggest question for echoes rn is how many more we will get
Rn we have for a total of 6
We will most likely get more but how many more? Sakurai made a point to not only say hey we have echoes in this game but also make an option to have them "stack" on their respective character
So the honest question is how many more will we get? 2 more? 6 more?
We CAN sorta guess who is possible because surprisingly the number of chars that could get echoes that make sense and are redundant is really small, that being...
Ken
Medusa
Isabelle
Dixie
Shadow
Black Knight

We could also get a repeat of the situation and get an echo with a newcomer but who knows what will happen. We have no way of knowing but its worth thinking about. Its clear Sakurai still wants this game to FEEL like its getting a ton of newcomers, so echoes are a genius way of going about that.
If anything Im just incredibly curious as to who will end up making it.

 

[Noipoi]

A little late to the discussion this time. What's happening, guys?

Sakurai confirmed that Ridley and K Rool were jokes, Waluigi and Waluigi (Waluigi's echo fighter) will replace them.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Bandana Waddle Dee has a voice actor in Promotional material and one song.

Granted, I can't find the promotional material that had him talk but I could've sworn there was one with susie.

but here is the song.

All the vocal songs should have the voice actor they use for all the characters. Eternal Dream has Sectonia's voice actor. And Take Off has Meta knight's voice actor.

With that said. I really don't think Bandana Waddle Dee would have a voice in smash. And even if he did, it could be anyone as evident by Sakurai voicing Dedede only in smash, and whatever is going on with meta knight.

 

[Paperchampion23]

It might confirm there are no OTHER Kirby characters that are going to be in Smash

It shouldn't. She's the voice actress of Kirby. Why would she even know about Dee's inclusion if he was in?

 

[Idon]

Speaking of voices, the hell is up with DK and Bowser sounding like nintendogs?

 

[Delzethin]

Minor thing that's worth bringing up because I haven't seen it addressed much yet. This popped up in the Pokémon anime episode yesterday:

They're starting an arc based around Necrozma, and this mural apparently depicts ancient Alolan heroes' encounter with it centuries prior. You know how a lot of stories like to set things up in a way where there's a parallel between the old legends and the current protagonists? Well, they're doing it here, based on the three 'mons on the bottom right there: one each for Ash, Lillie, and Kiawe. These specific three make it highly unlikely that they were chosen at random.

So it's interesting that they're using a Lycanroc to allude to Ash, isn't it? Not a Rowlet, or a member of the Litten line? This seems to be another thing hammering in who his signature 'mon is for Alola.

Which puts us in a weird situation where a rumor is pointing against a character that the big picture keeps pointing toward. What does this mean in the long run? Hard to say just yet, but we should acknowledge it at least, shouldn't we?

 

[blazefan519]

Sakurai confirmed that Ridley and K Rool were jokes, Waluigi and Waluigi (Waluigi's echo fighter) will replace them.

Well ****.

 

[Zinith]

Villager

Ah yes, VILLAGER being Villager's Echo makes the most sense...

 

[blazefan519]

Ah yes, VILLAGER being Villager's Echo makes the most sense...

I think you mean "New Villager" I will never let that fake leak go

 

[Onua]

Ah yes, VILLAGER being Villager's Echo makes the most sense...

oops im dumb. Meant isabelle, fixed it haha

 

[Idon]

Minor thing that's worth bringing up because I haven't seen it addressed much yet. This popped up in the Pokémon anime episode yesterday:

They're starting an arc based around Necrozma, and this mural apparently depicts ancient Alolan heroes' encounter with it centuries prior. You know how a lot of stories like to set things up in a way where there's a parallel between the old legends and the current protagonists? Well, they're doing it here, based on the three 'mons on the bottom right there: one each for Ash, Lillie, and Kiawe. These specific three make it highly unlikely that they were chosen at random.

So it's interesting that they're using a Lycanroc to allude to Ash, isn't it? Not a Rowlet, or a member of the Litten line? This seems to be another thing hammering in who his signature 'mon is for Alola.

Which puts us in a weird situation where a rumor is pointing against a character that the big picture keeps pointing toward. What does this mean in the long run? Hard to say just yet, but we should acknowledge it at least, shouldn't we?

Clearly it means we're getting Alolan-Marowak as our Alolan representative, simultaneously appealing to both gen 1 and gen 7 fans.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Did anyone see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_dcFzIglUM

The debunk of the Gothitelle leak? I assume you did.

He called Zinith out. Not by name, but...

Dang, are you going to take that?

 

[Roberk]

S Tier: Mario, Pokemon, Zelda
Sales, legacy, impact, consistent releases, these are the prime Nintendo series.

A Tier: Kirby, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Fire Emblem
Kirby (Always decent with >1 million sales and consistent entries, but it doesn't have the legacy/impact of S Tier), DK has past sales but it's still getting back up on its feet (would be S Tier if its quality was consistent throughout its lifetime), Metroid's impact on platformers/Metroidvania, and FE (consistent amount of entries, skyrocketing sales when Nintendo actually gives a ****).

S Tier has everything while A Tier is a mix and match of qualities.

 

[Deleted member]

Clearly it means we're getting Alolan-Marowak as our Alolan representative, simultaneously appealing to both gen 1 and gen 7 fans.

Wouldn't even be mad. Alolan Marowak would be sweet.

 

[Will]

The biggest question for echoes rn is how many more we will get
Rn we have for a total of 6
We will most likely get more but how many more? Sakurai made a point to not only say hey we have echoes in this game but also make an option to have them "stack" on their respective character
So the honest question is how many more will we get? 2 more? 6 more?
We CAN sorta guess who is possible because surprisingly the number of chars that could get echoes that make sense and are redundant is really small, that being...
Ken
Medusa
Isabelle
Dixie
Shadow
Black Knight

We could also get a repeat of the situation and get an echo with a newcomer but who knows what will happen. We have no way of knowing but its worth thinking about. Its clear Sakurai still wants this game to FEEL like its getting a ton of newcomers, so echoes are a genius way of going about that.
If anything Im just incredibly curious as to who will end up making it.

Geez, first Black Knight and now Medusa.
Agree to disagree, but I don't see Black Knight happening my dude. Medusa is a maybe, but I'm unsure of KI and if it's gonna go past 3.

Spoiler

now its the true echo hours

 

[92MilesPrower]

SPONTANEOUS TOPIC CHANGE TIME!

King K. Rool apparently has his own unique victory theme as well, according to the video of the match with him and Snake. However, with some exceptions, not everyone else has a unique victory theme, surprisingly. With that in mind, what should be the victory themes of each character, if everyone were to get their own unique one?

Here's some ideas:
:

:

:

:

 

[DarkFalcon]

Minor thing that's worth bringing up because I haven't seen it addressed much yet. This popped up in the Pokémon anime episode yesterday:

They're starting an arc based around Necrozma, and this mural apparently depicts ancient Alolan heroes' encounter with it centuries prior. You know how a lot of stories like to set things up in a way where there's a parallel between the old legends and the current protagonists? Well, they're doing it here, based on the three 'mons on the bottom right there: one each for Ash, Lillie, and Kiawe. These specific three make it highly unlikely that they were chosen at random.

So it's interesting that they're using a Lycanroc to allude to Ash, isn't it? Not a Rowlet, or a member of the Litten line? This seems to be another thing hammering in who his signature 'mon is for Alola.

Which puts us in a weird situation where a rumor is pointing against a character that the big picture keeps pointing toward. What does this mean in the long run? Hard to say just yet, but we should acknowledge it at least, shouldn't we?

While the Pokemon anime is incredibly well scheduled, I highly, highly doubt this episode even written by the time the project plan started for Ultimate.

 

[Garteam]

Incineroar can't get in because Bowser and K Rool kinda do wrestling things even though they're not heel wrestlers and Incineroar would be totally different
Whatever you say bud.

I actually went into this:

"The best case scenario to make Incineroar unique is to go all in with the “heel” idea, giving him moves such as hitting opponents with their chairs or spitting in their eyes. However, then the character begins to stray too far from what Incineroar is in Pokemon. Incineroar is a dirty fighter, but he still has an aspect of a legitimate warrior, he isn’t a cheater who can’t confront others in a one-on-one fight."

It's also worth noting that heel wrestlers are still wrestlers. Sure, they're a little more showy and they tend to fight a little more... pragmatically, but they still pull off many off the same moves that are used in traditional professional wrestling.

 

[Idon]

SPONTANEOUS TOPIC CHANGE TIME!

King K. Rool apparently has his own unique victory theme as well, according to the video of the match with him and Snake. However, with some exceptions, not everyone else has a unique victory theme, surprisingly. With that in mind, what should be the victory themes of each character, if everyone were to get their own unique one?

Here's some ideas:
:

:

:

:

As much as I hate Roy, it's really stupid his victory theme isn't the "victory lap" theme from FE6/7 when you've wiped out most of the enemies on the map and have a guaranteed win.

 

[Zinith]

Did anyone see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_dcFzIglUM

The debunk of the Gothitelle leak? I assume you did.

He called Zinith out. Not by name, but...

Dang, are you going to take that?

Watching the video right now. I don't know what I have anything to do with it, but I'll see...

 

[MBRedboy31]

The dresses. Them being there or not there is a huge animation difference. You have to have the kicks etc. without the dress being there, which is part of the animation in itself. I did kind of specify that earlier, but I think I was still too vague. The models nor skeletons are heavily different beyond Zelda's dress being removed, requiring them to reanimate every single move that would normally be part of her dress(like I said, every single kick. But if you want a straight example, Lightning Kick). Those are also not very complicated visuals even then. They're just new models, but otherwise, share the same basic animations without the aesthetics. They require somewhat more work than the Polygons, but not that much.

None of Zelda's kicking attacks actually use her dress as part of the move; she just kicks with her legs and the dress is animated to not be in the way. Her legs would move the same way regardless of whether or not her model has a dress on it. Just pay close attention to things like their jumping poses, moves that you would think are restricted by the dress like down tilt but look fine on the wireframes and alloys, ect.

(I just spent a whole bunch of time trying to figure out how to use AR/Gecko codes to play as the blue Alloy in Brawl in Dolphin to post comparison pictures, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to work :/ )

 

[Will]

Did anyone see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_dcFzIglUM

The debunk of the Gothitelle leak? I assume you did.

He called Zinith out. Not by name, but...

Dang, are you going to take that?

>10 ****ing minutes
If you're gonna call out someone calling out someone else at least do the notion of linking a specific time because I ain't wadding through some dude's YT for this.

 

[Noipoi]

Minor thing that's worth bringing up because I haven't seen it addressed much yet. This popped up in the Pokémon anime episode yesterday:

They're starting an arc based around Necrozma, and this mural apparently depicts ancient Alolan heroes' encounter with it centuries prior. You know how a lot of stories like to set things up in a way where there's a parallel between the old legends and the current protagonists? Well, they're doing it here, based on the three 'mons on the bottom right there: one each for Ash, Lillie, and Kiawe. These specific three make it highly unlikely that they were chosen at random.

So it's interesting that they're using a Lycanroc to allude to Ash, isn't it? Not a Rowlet, or a member of the Litten line? This seems to be another thing hammering in who his signature 'mon is for Alola.

Which puts us in a weird situation where a rumor is pointing against a character that the big picture keeps pointing toward. What does this mean in the long run? Hard to say just yet, but we should acknowledge it at least, shouldn't we?

I wouldn't even mind, I love Lycanroc.
I know I look like the "Incineroar guy" but just because I like him doesn't mean I don't like other Pokemon.
If Vergeben was wrong on this one and Lycanroc gets in than that's just one more character I have to main.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

>10 ****ing minutes
If you're gonna call out someone calling out someone else at least do the notion of linking a specific time because I ain't wadding through some dude's YT for this.

This point

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

None of Zelda's kicking attacks actually use her dress as part of the move; she just kicks with her legs and the dress is animated to not be in the way. Her legs would move the same way regardless of whether or not her model has a dress on it. Just pay close attention to things like their jumping poses, moves that you would think are restricted by the dress like down tilt but look fine on the wireframes and alloys, ect.

(I just spent a whole bunch of time trying to figure out how to use AR/Gecko codes to play as the blue Alloy in Brawl in Dolphin to post comparison pictures, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to work :/ )

Huh. I honestly thought it affected it more. My bad.

 

[Idon]

This point

I feel like Zinith is being personally attacked here.

Well at the very least, it's better than those asking for a Metal Mario echo.

 

[Noipoi]

This point

OH DAMN.
ARE YOU JUST GONNA TAKE THAT ZINITH?

 

[RandomAce]

Did anyone see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_dcFzIglUM

The debunk of the Gothitelle leak? I assume you did.

He called Zinith out. Not by name, but...

Dang, are you going to take that?

I was about to say the same damn thing. He called out Boshi as one of the worst leaked characters EVER, like god damn I was thinking about Zinith when he said that.

While the Pokemon anime is incredibly well scheduled, I highly, highly doubt this episode even written by the time the project plan started for Ultimate.

Although it isn’t planned early, I think it demonstrates just how much attention their giving to Lycanroc. It’s beginning to be in a similar position to Greninja, and Greninja got picked for being semingly unique and also have a big presence (and potentially popular due to it’s design).

 

[Will]

This point

This dude got a Smashboards account? Those are bold words for someone in roasting range.

 

[Zinith]

This point

Oh, so he was reading a Reddit post that lumped Boshi in with Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach? I know my most wanted is a stretch, but not THAT much of a stretch...

Also, is that Billybae10K ?

 

[DarkFalcon]

Although it isn’t planned early, I think it demonstrates just how much attention their giving to Lycanroc. It’s beginning to be in a similar position to Greninja, and Greninja got picked for being semingly unique and also have a big presence (and potentially popular due to it’s design).

I'm not really arguing the attention Lycanroc is getting. I'm just saying that even if the idea for this Lycanroc stuff was conceived as far back as 2 years ago it'd still be too late.

 

[Will]

Oh, so he was reading a Reddit post that lumped Boshi in with Goku, Shrek and Pink Gold Peach? I know my most wanted is a stretch, but not THAT much of a stretch...

Also, is that Billybae10K ?

oh ****
have mercy zinith, he didn't know he'd get sniffed out

 

[Heracr055]

Meanwhile, in unrelated news...
I beat StylesX2 on FG either 5-4 or 6-4 (think it was the former). Kinda cool to run into a prominent player