Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Amazing Ampharos]

I maintain my basic point which is why Bandana Waddle Dee just doesn't work. He's just so generic and bland as an actual character design that he's impossible to make exciting for anyone who doesn't know who he is. Let's be honest that any new first party character at this point is going to have probably more than half of the playerbase not know who the character is before playing. That means these designs have to really stand out and sell themselves; they have to be appealing on their own merits.

I mean, really, just look at these character designs and tell me, if you had no idea who any of these dudes were, how would you think about them? I did not cherrypick; these were the very first google results for four characters. Put aside your various fandoms and just think about how these designs relate. I provided fairly neutral ability summaries to help you imagine potential movesets as well.

Spoiler: Character Images

Abilities: Expert swordsman, able to use various earth elemental magic, able to draw extra magical effects from weapon enchantments.

Abilities: Arms morph to various gun forms, able to use star themed magic

Abilities: Pokes with a toothpick

Abilities: Delivers strong headbutts, an expert tattletale

As per the pro-spear argument, well, let's stick with images. Pick which one someone who knows nothing about base games would prefer. I don't think any of these characters are terribly likely, but just reflect on the designs:

Spoiler: Spear Users

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I must be the weird one that thinks Arms might get AT-ed… the range of those characters for grabs and such as a playable character sounds to me way more broken than Simon's whip range for just attacking. But maybe that's just me…

What if they made it so his regular attacks didn't have that much range but his smash attacks had large range

 

[WertQuadNine]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but someone on Neogaf pointed out that Black Knight is missing from Castle Seige, and it could be a sign to an Ike echo. Are people over-analyzing?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76917519?

 

[Noipoi]

Is a Gen 7 Pokemon really inevitable though. Like, I don't think it's impossible that we skip Gen 7 with the base game. I dunno. Usually I have a good feeling about certain characters but this time, there just isn't one. I like Pokemon well enough but honestly if we didn't get a new one this game I really would not be phased. Anyone else?

I wouldn't say it's inevitable, but I don't think there's a really good reason not to get one. Pokemon prints money and Gamefreak likes free advertisement.
And if we didn't get a new Pokemon i'd be pretty disappointed, I play Pokemon all the time and it's always a highlight to see which Pokemon from the newest generation gets in Smash the newest Smash game.

 

[Johnknight1]

Is a Gen 7 Pokemon really inevitable though. Like, I don't think it's impossible that we skip Gen 7 with the base game. I dunno. Usually I have a good feeling about certain characters but this time, there just isn't one. I like Pokemon well enough but honestly if we didn't get a new one this game I really would not be phased. Anyone else?

Pokémon is huge. Pokémon is always huge. Like... this Generation of Pokémon is probably going to make more money than the entirety of Kirby or Donkey Kong Country have.

And having characters from x generations brings a new taste to the roster, almost like it's from a new IP.

Also this Generation has a lottttt of good candidates. Incineroar and Decidueye are tailor-made for Smash probably better than Lucario and Greninja (who are kind of wonky playable characters TBH). It was always inevitable and it remains inevitable IMO.

Really Gen 6 and Gen 7 have sold so well, it's insane. And add in Pokémon Go and oh man. Pokémon is freaking huge. I still can't believe Pikachu is the official mascot of the forthcoming Olympics either.

 

[Deleted member]

Is a Gen 7 Pokemon really inevitable though. Like, I don't think it's impossible that we skip Gen 7 with the base game. I dunno. Usually I have a good feeling about certain characters but this time, there just isn't one. I like Pokemon well enough but honestly if we didn't get a new one this game I really would not be phased. Anyone else?

I still expect a Gen 7 mon, but I would not care at all if it didn't happen. The only Pokemon out of the "likely" picks that I'd actually want to play as is Buzzwole, and he doesn't look particularly likely. I don't think I'm much of a fan of Gen 7, tbh.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Gen 7 is over now though, would there be a point in advertising a gen 7 mon in Smash?

The next game is a gen 1 remake and the return of pokemon trainer could take care of that

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I maintain my basic point which is why Bandana Waddle Dee just doesn't work. He's just so generic and bland as an actual character design that he's impossible to make exciting for anyone who doesn't know who he is. Let's be honest that any new first party character at this point is going to have probably more than half of the playerbase not know who the character is before playing. That means these designs have to really stand out and sell themselves; they have to be appealing on their own merits.

I mean, really, just look at these character designs and tell me, if you had no idea who any of these dudes were, how would you think about them? I did not cherrypick; these were the very first google results for four characters. Put aside your various fandoms and just think about how these designs relate. I provided fairly neutral ability summaries to help you imagine potential movesets as well.

Spoiler: Character Images

View attachment 158721

Abilities: Expert swordsman, able to use various earth elemental magic, able to draw extra magical effects from weapon enchantments.

Abilities: Arms morph to various gun forms, able to use star themed magic

View attachment 158722

Abilities: Pokes with a toothpick

Abilities: Delivers strong headbutts, an expert tattletale

As per the pro-spear argument, well, let's stick with images. Pick which one someone who knows nothing about base games would prefer. I don't think any of these characters are terribly likely, but just reflect on the designs:

Spoiler: Spear Users

View attachment 158723

View attachment 158724

View attachment 158722

I agree here, but I also want to ask you - What do you think about him compared to other Kirby characters that aren't in yet?

 

[DarkFalcon]

I've been pretty curious about the render art myself this time.

First off, we know they're heavily photoshopped. No realtime asset will ever match up, regardless of the strength of the tech.

Spoiler: Old Falco Render

Spoiler: New Falco Render

What I can't decide is whether they're photoshopped off of the actual realtime models or if they're photoshopped off the high-res sculpts that you make before making your real-time model.

Every character model begins as a high-fidelity, million polygon sculpt. This is the 75% thing that I was talking about. It's really easy to make something look good when you don't have to worry about it running in the engine. The next 25% is taking that sculpt and building the low-res model around it, which you then bake the detail map down on to, to basically cheat the eye and make the low-res model look hi-res. Some of the renders look like they might have faked, baked detail on them as opposed to real, sculpted detail, but it's very difficult to tell exactly.

This is kind of a roundabout answer to your question, lol. But the actual answer is, there's no way the in-game model will ever look as good. It really isn't meant to. If I had to guess, it's probably a different art team that does the renders, if only because all you need is photoshop skills, and you want the people with 3D skills to be spending their time working in 3D.

This was a really enjoyable learning experience. Thank you for all the replies. Learning behind the scenes stuff is really neat.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Zoroark was failure to launch, not on Ash's team and no promotion beyond 5th gen.

Incineroar, well, ya know Torracat, plus a movie where he fought Charizrad.

I do like Pheromosa, but is she the staple of gen 7? Not really, oddly Poipole is the frontrunner for the UBs as it too is a starter (in Ultra Space?) and is on Ash's team.

Slivally I could see, Primarina is popular but I have no idea.

I mostly mentioned Pheromosa because of all the traction Buzzwole was getting. It just seemed silly to be that everyone was talking about Buzzwole as a Ultra Beast rep while Pheromosa is of equal importance. And she does appear during the climax of Pokemon Moon, so she's still one of the more iconic UBs.

I honestly completely forgot about Poipole. I was actually going down a list of Pokemon introduced in the original Sun and Moon. But yeah, that thing would also be a great contender.

And I never meant to downplay Incineroar's popularity or importance, I just don't think we should be considering him as our only serious option. Ultimately, I believe Sakurai has the final say in which Pokemon makes it in, not The Pokemon Company. The reason Greninja was chosen, according to an interview, was because he really liked its' concept art. This is purely guesswork based one what he said about Greninja's selection, but I imagine Gamefreak would show him the concept art of a number of pokemon planned to use in promotion with him getting to pick the one he likes the best. It could be Incineroar, or it could be something else. Who really knows?

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but someone on Neogaf pointed out that Black Knight is missing from Castle Seige, and it could be a sign to an Ike echo. Are people over-analyzing?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76917519?

Will

It's happening again

 

[MBRedboy31]

I must be the weird one that thinks Arms might get AT-ed… the range of those characters for grabs and such as a playable character sounds to me way more broken than Simon's whip range for just attacking. But maybe that's just me…

If the grabs are anything like they are in ARMS, they’d clank with even the lightest of attacks and would be super punishable if they whiff.

 

[Noipoi]

Gen 7 is over now though, would there be a point in advertising a gen 7 mon in Smash?

The next game is a gen 1 remake and the return of pokemon trainer could take care of that

Pikachu and Eevee are Gen 7. Gen 7's not over until November next year.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but someone on Neogaf pointed out that Black Knight is missing from Castle Seige, and it could be a sign to an Ike echo. Are people over-analyzing?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76917519?

Imagine the reaction if this actually happens.

 

[PeridotGX]

I maintain my basic point which is why Bandana Waddle Dee just doesn't work. He's just so generic and bland as an actual character design that he's impossible to make exciting for anyone who doesn't know who he is. Let's be honest that any new first party character at this point is going to have probably more than half of the playerbase not know who the character is before playing. That means these designs have to really stand out and sell themselves; they have to be appealing on their own merits.

I mean, really, just look at these character designs and tell me, if you had no idea who any of these dudes were, how would you think about them? I did not cherrypick; these were the very first google results for four characters. Put aside your various fandoms and just think about how these designs relate. I provided fairly neutral ability summaries to help you imagine potential movesets as well.

Spoiler: Character Images

View attachment 158721

Abilities: Expert swordsman, able to use various earth elemental magic, able to draw extra magical effects from weapon enchantments.

Abilities: Arms morph to various gun forms, able to use star themed magic

View attachment 158722

Abilities: Pokes with a toothpick

Abilities: Delivers strong headbutts, an expert tattletale

As per the pro-spear argument, well, let's stick with images. Pick which one someone who knows nothing about base games would prefer. I don't think any of these characters are terribly likely, but just reflect on the designs:

Spoiler: Spear Users

View attachment 158723

View attachment 158724

View attachment 158722

I provided fairly neutral ability summaries to help you imagine potential movesets as well.

Abilities: Pokes with a toothpick

Pretend like you don't hate him. I would hate to see Dark Matter in Smash, but I could probably come up with a more neutral statement for him than you did with Bandana Dee.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I shouldn't, because I predict how this will go, but fine, maybe I could be wrong. I'll bite. This is coming from someone who enjoys all three characters, keep in mind.

First off, a lot of what Johnknight1 was saying (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) Geno and Isaac have been around for quite some time, especially in speculation, so it's not really a comparable ball. Isaac's been around for almost 20 years as the "Shoo-in" character after Olimar that everyone thought was a dead giveaway, and Geno's been acknowledged plenty by even Sakurai's words and a Mii Costume (to play devil's advocate, Waddle Dee's are now entirely out of King Dedede's moveset).

Next, Isaac gives love to a new series on the roster, which is different. If you want, we could go down a rabbit hole where we compare Little Mac's popularity and Shulk's to Waddle Dee, but I've said this before - New franchises aren't really worth your time.

And then... Geno's in a weird spot. While I agree that more people have probably seen a Waddle Dee and we don't have enough concrete statistics on our hands to prove anything, the point that was made w/ Geno was that Geno would be easier to market off of "coolness" factor.

Honestly, a lot of the arguments for the characters boil down to the same reasoning. I've said this before and I'll say it again: If another Kirby character, Geno, Isaac, etc, don't make the roster, it'll probably be because the cutting room floor had to be decided somewhere. I will, however, defend new series on the basis that it's kinda absurd to compare a Rhythm Heaven character or Isaac to adding another character from a series that's already in Smash. Especially when Smash is about fanservice and advertising. Think for a second about the amount of series that have had a huge bump thanks to Smash.

Other than Geno being mentioned by Sakurai himself, I don't think this effects what I said. "Isaac has been around for 20 years now and has been considered a shoo-in character." I mean ok. That doesn't change the fact that all of this coming from the same places that people have been cheering about for Bandana Waddle Dee. It doesn't matter that is has been going on for longer, it could still be an echo chamber of popularity like people are claming for Bandana Waddle Dee.

Also what exactly would geno and Isaac be advertising. At least with Geno you could get an nes classic. Isaac you will have to get a wii u and then go on the virtual console. But both situation involve games that are pretty old at this point. And just because they get into smash doesn't mean they will get a revival. Kid icarus was a special circumstance.

I do agree that there most likely will be a cut off point in terms of popularity though. And I'll accept that it is possible that Bandana Waddle has potential to be below.

This. We see Kirby characters poll very high in every Japanese poll. Not just Bandanna Dee, but loads of other ones, namely one offs, similar to what we saw in past Zelda games with say Zant, Ghirahim, etc that were never going to happen.

Bandanna Dee situation-wise is a lot similar to the 4th Zelda character Impa (and to a degree Skull Kid) in a lot of ways. Only problem is Bandanna Dee has is he isn't an easy clone/Echo Fighter. If Bandanna Dee could easily be an either/or situation like Isabelle, I wouldn't be saying "hey hold the hype train because disappointment probably awaits." I'd be helping load the coal instead!!!

Magolor is the only other kirby character to appear on polls and he is always quite behind from Bandana Waddle Dee. Not majorly, but a decent chunk. And Magolor isn't entirely a one-off. Magolor keeps getting roles unlike most kirby villans. Unlike Zelda one offs who are lucky to even appear in a spin off. So it makes sense why Magolor would be seen as an alternative.

As for Impa. Not a very fair comparison since Bandana Waddle Dee has been playable in mainline kirby games while Impa has been always a support role and has no consistancy for people to support.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Gen 7 is over now though, would there be a point in advertising a gen 7 mon in Smash?

The next game is a gen 1 remake and the return of pokemon trainer could take care of that

Gen 6 was basically over when Smash Wii U & 3DS came out.

also blah blah blah vergeben blah blah blah.

 

[Johnknight1]

I maintain my basic point which is why Bandana Waddle Dee just doesn't work. He's just so generic and bland as an actual character design that he's impossible to make exciting for anyone who doesn't know who he is. Let's be honest that any new first party character at this point is going to have probably more than half of the playerbase not know who the character is before playing. That means these designs have to really stand out and sell themselves; they have to be appealing on their own merits.

I mean, really, just look at these character designs and tell me, if you had no idea who any of these dudes were, how would you think about them? I did not cherrypick; these were the very first google results for four characters. Put aside your various fandoms and just think about how these designs relate. I provided fairly neutral ability summaries to help you imagine potential movesets as well.

Spoiler: Character Images

View attachment 158721

Abilities: Expert swordsman, able to use various earth elemental magic, able to draw extra magical effects from weapon enchantments.

Abilities: Arms morph to various gun forms, able to use star themed magic

View attachment 158722

Abilities: Pokes with a toothpick

Abilities: Delivers strong headbutts, an expert tattletale

As per the pro-spear argument, well, let's stick with images. Pick which one someone who knows nothing about base games would prefer. I don't think any of these characters are terribly likely, but just reflect on the designs:

Spoiler: Spear Users

View attachment 158723

View attachment 158724

View attachment 158722

All this post does is further illustrate to me how awesome Pig/Beast Ganon is and how badly we need him playable in Smash.

But sadly, that seems like it will ever happen.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I would not fall for Sakurai's statement on "not expecting too many new challengers".

Just thinking about speculation altogether, instinctually, I already felt that Sakurai is going to surprise with far more unique newcomers than people expect, despite the large roster count being a concern for development.

I could easily be wrong about it and find out that the roster count is of Sakurai's limit, but right now, I expect Sakurai to be more ambitious with the number of unique newcomers with the experience/skills he has gained over the past 20 years. At max, I can 15 unique new challengers just like the last Smash games, plus a plethora of echos, maybe even more challengers than that.

I absolutely do not want lowball Sakurai anymore after he paid ample attention to the fans with several gameplay changes/modes, making Ridley a fighter, and being willing to negotiate with Konami for their properties and several other third parties (despite licensing matters potentially being hell).

Just based on these decisions he made for Ultimate, I expect the dreamy outcome to happen.

 

[Idon]

I would not fall for Sakurai's statement on "not expecting too many new challengers".

Just thinking about speculation altogether, instinctually, I already felt that Sakurai is going to surprise with far more unique newcomers than people expect, despite the large roster count being a concern for development.

I could easily be wrong about it and find out that the roster count is of Sakurai's limit, but right now, I expect Sakurai to be more ambitious with the number of unique newcomers with the experience/skills he has gained over the past 20 years. At max, I can 15 unique new challengers just like the last Smash games, plus a plethora of echos, maybe even more challengers than that.

I absolutely do not want lowball Sakurai anymore after he paid ample attention to the fans with several gameplay changes/modes, making Ridley a fighter, and being willing to negotiate with Konami for their properties and several other third parties (despite licensing matters potentially being hell).

I expect the dreamy outcome.

That's good, after all,

 

[Will]

What if you don’t believe in the chairs but have been predicting/wanting Skull Kid since June?

He'll either be an Assist still or a boss if he isn't playable, not really a punishment to supporters and more laughing at those who thought the chairs meant anything.

All this post does is further illustrate to me how awesome Pig/Beast Ganon is and how badly we need him playable in Smash.

God that will never fail to tick me off. Explain to me, how is he a necessity? How would the game fail to function without him?

Why do people toss around the word need when the word they're always looking for is want?

 

[Idon]

He'll either be an Assist still or a boss if he isn't playable, not really a punishment to supporters and more laughing at those who thought the chairs meant anything.


God that will never fail to tick me off. Explain to me, how is he a necessity? How would the game fail to function without him?

Why do people toss around the word need when the word they're always looking for is want?

Because hyperbole is fun.
I can't not exaggerate. It's literally impossible.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

If I am going to be 100% real with you guys, I don't understand the want for geno. He's been requested for as long as I can remember (pre brawl announcement), and I just don't understand.

The character has literally done nothing besides having a cool design lol. I can understand sakurai being interested in the move set potential and design, but I don't understand why the fan base craves a character that wasn't even super important in the one game he showed up in over 2 decades ago.

I've never once mentioned geno to someone offline and had them say "oh yeah, geno would be sweet." Its always "who is that lol". Even now if he were to be announced, outside of the core speculation community and smrpg fans, I'm not sure anyone would know who this guy is.

Please help me understand, because I seriously just can't wrap my head around this one. Why is geno requested more than say sora, or even noctis from square?

 

[Johnknight1]

I would not fall for Sakurai's statement on "not expecting too many new challengers".

Just thinking about speculation altogether, instinctually, I already felt that Sakurai is going to surprise with far more unique newcomers than people expect, despite the large roster count being a concern for development.

I could easily be wrong about it and find out that the roster count is of Sakurai's limit, but right now, I expect Sakurai to be more ambitious with the number of unique newcomers with the experience/skills he has gained over the past 20 years. At max, I can 15 unique new challengers just like the last Smash games, plus a plethora of echos, maybe even more challengers than that.

I absolutely do not want lowball Sakurai anymore after he paid ample attention to the fans with several gameplay changes/modes, making Ridley a fighter, and being willing to negotiate with Konami for their properties and several other third parties (despite licensing matters potentially being hell).

I expect the dreamy outcome.

Why would you expect anywhere near 15 unique newcomers this game like Smash 4 did at launch in addition to all these Echo Fighters?

That's not just insane to expect, that's not possible and isn't going to happen.

I don't know how you can say that without ending your statement with "/s" TBH.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Also what exactly would geno and Isaac be advertising. At least with Geno you could get an nes classic. Isaac you will have to get a wii u and then go on the virtual console. But both situation involve games that are pretty old at this point. And just because they get into smash doesn't mean they will get a revival. Kid icarus was a special circumstance.

hey what's ness doing? it's just advertising an old NES game nobody played
hey what's fire emblem doing? it hasn't had a game in the EU or US
hey what are more fire emblem characters doing?
hey what's shulk doing? xenoblade's an echo chamber
hey what's little mac doing? basically entirely fan requests (who I assure you wasn't as much as Isaac/Geno/Ridley back at the time he was requested)
hey what's bayonetta doing?
hey what are other characters on the roster all doing?
hey what are they still doing on the roster?

I can go on for a long while and circle around half of the roster. I'm not saying that advertising is the only reason (Uniqueness, popularity, easier to implement, etc), but playing in a business-savvy way is intelligent and can benefit Nintendo heavily.

Geno can advertise Mario RPG's as a whole, and Isaac most definitely raises awareness for Golden Sun. Think more like a business man about this: It's not about what's already on the plate, but it's about what has potential to be on the plate from raising awareness, and what Nintendo has in the pipeline
Keep in mind, Fire Emblem was very much a long term game. I don't think a single soul would have told you, during Brawl, that Fire Emblem would have a fan service game that proceeds to rake in almost half a billion in revenue on a mobile game. Now, obviously, no new series added to Smash are probably going to do that ever (Mario RPG's, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, etc) but it's absolutely worth thinking about.

Like, seriously, the popularity of Earthbound and Fire Emblem in particular shot up like crazy thanks to Smash.

 

[Shroob]

If I am going to be 100% real with you guys, I don't understand the want for geno. He's been requested for as long as I can remember (pre brawl announcement), and I just don't understand.

The character has literally done nothing besides having a cool design lol. I can understand sakurai being interested in the move set potential and design, but I don't understand why the fan base craves a character that wasn't even super important in the one game he showed up in over 2 decades ago.

I've never once mentioned geno to someone offline and had them say "oh yeah, geno would be sweet." Its always "who is that lol". Even now if he were to be announced, outside of the core speculation community and smrpg fans, I'm not sure anyone would know who this guy is.

Please help me understand, because I seriously just can't wrap my head around this one. Why is geno requested more than say sora, or even noctis from square?

At this point, Geno is Smash would be the ultimate community goal.

If Sakurai puts Geno in Smash, it would be bigger than Ridley for the fanbase, since it would mean we elevated a character from obscurity into arguably gaming's hall of fame.

 

[Johnknight1]

God that will never fail to tick me off. Explain to me, how is he a necessity? How would the game fail to function without him?

Why do people toss around the word need when the word they're always looking for is want?

...do you... do you not understand how hyperbole works?

 

[Will]

Because hyperbole is fun.
I can't not exaggerate. It's literally impossible.

triggered.gif

hey what's ness doing? it's just advertising an old NES game nobody played

That's Ninten dude

 

[Chandeelure]

The last pages were deesgusting.

I'm going to call the police.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Bandana Dee. He's the only one I feel should be in. The others, minus Crash, just feel like random obscure characters from the Nintendo 64 era.

I know this is just an opinion. I actually have asked why people want Isaac or Geno because I just don't see the appeal and I was just ignored.

So, to me those two are about as relevant as Fossil Fighter or the ghost chicks from Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door. I've played Golden Sun and from what remember Isaac who a generic anime RPG protagonist. Him being considered one of the "Top 4 most wanted Smash characters" is basically blasphemy to me. I don't know anything about Geno but from what I assume hes another side character in super Mario RPG. Hes appeared in one game. For reference, Daisy has appeared in one main game and people said she has no chance. Geno, who appeared in one-side game as another buddy you can use, for some reason is considered a "Top 4 most wanted Smash character." Even if Sakurai likes him it just seems like blasphemy to me.

Crash is an icon from what I'm told at least so I actually can see an argument for him. The other two just do not compute in my head, but if anybody feels like explaining their appeal to me I'm not opposed to reading it. I'm not blindly hating on the characters or anything. I just didn't grow up with them and I know next to nothing about them. My mind can be changed.

With that being said claiming "these 4 characters are THE most wanted Smash characters *period*" is complete and utter bull**** and I've already said why. Prove. It. Give some evidence. Are you including the younger fanbase AT ALL? Casuals? Do you see the problem here?

Okay, as one of the more prominent and more chill memebers of the isaac fanbase, i will immedately call all of this criticism absolute bull****.

(And no, i'm not talking about your opinion of Bandana dee being the most likely. I'm not gonna argue that.)

A lot of your reasons against Isaac, to me, is weak in what they are trying to convey. So let me break this down.

"Those two are about as relevent as fossil fighters."

Neither is King K Rool, or Dark Samus.

"I've played Golden Sun and from what remember Isaac who a generic anime RPG protagonist."

First off, polish your grammar.
Second off, is generic RPG protagonist really a good critique? No.

Marth, who was someone that was from a series that wasn't even brought over to the states, had literally ZERO personaility compared to the other games after him. Even in the sequel, he didn't have much in terms of personality, yet he got into smash. Which led to a huge interest in the series as whole.

And Cloud should also be called out. As a fan of Final Fantasy, i find him particually dull. The whole story revolves the characters around the player.

And that's because you're meant to take control of the MC. You're supposed to roleplay the character however you want.

Isaac doesnt have personailty, but that's because he is the protagonist of the first game. In the second game and third game, he actually does have one.

And even with RPG characters with awesome personalities like Shulk, his character gets simplified because deep personalities means jack**** in a fighting game like smash bros.


As for why we want him? It's because we want to put the spotlight on this series.


Isaac's large list of nature related spells means he can much more unique compared to a lot of other RPG protagonists. If you really want to know, Go to anyone on the Isaac thread. They'll you about what kind of moveset they want for Isaac, and it'll be different depending on the people you ask.

The thing is, i don't even care if he's playable. I just want him in the game in any fessible capacity.

Cause i love this series.

I respect your love BDD. So i hope these feelings of respect are reciprocated to the Isaac community as a whole. ^^

 

[Omega Tyrant]

ARMS still lacking a character is really weird. I would have thought 3 1/2 months before the 5th Smash games launch we would have both the Inklings AND Spring Man confirmed.

(If Spring Man isn't in the base game though, he's almost definitely DLC)

Ultimate's project plan was devised in December 2015, a year and a half before Arms released, base game is pretty much an impossibility for an Arms character, as putting in an Arms character would have been a huge gamble as there's no telling at the time if this new unproven IP was going to be successful with highly-demanded characters for Smash or be another Codename S.T.E.A.M that is quickly forgotten about and lead to significant backlash against such a inclusion. Back in Smash 4 when Sakurai reserved a slot for a gen 6 pokemon, it was an explicit exception for Pokemon because of the nature of the series, while he stated that if Awakening released as little as six months later (where it released in Japan just one month before Smash 4's project plan was devised), Robin and Lucina probably wouldn't have been in Smash 4.

 

[Noipoi]

If I am going to be 100% real with you guys, I don't understand the want for geno. He's been requested for as long as I can remember (pre brawl announcement), and I just don't understand.

The character has literally done nothing besides having a cool design lol. I can understand sakurai being interested in the move set potential and design, but I don't understand why the fan base craves a character that wasn't even super important in the one game he showed up in over 2 decades ago.

I've never once mentioned geno to someone offline and had them say "oh yeah, geno would be sweet." Its always "who is that lol". Even now if he were to be announced, outside of the core speculation community and smrpg fans, I'm not sure anyone would know who this guy is.

Please help me understand, because I seriously just can't wrap my head around this one. Why is geno requested more than say sora, or even noctis from square?

I'm actually right there with you, I just want him in because I want this site to explode.

 

[Johnknight1]

If I am going to be 100% real with you guys, I don't understand the want for geno. He's been requested for as long as I can remember (pre brawl announcement), and I just don't understand.

The character has literally done nothing besides having a cool design lol. I can understand sakurai being interested in the move set potential and design, but I don't understand why the fan base craves a character that wasn't even super important in the one game he showed up in over 2 decades ago.

I heard this as an argument against Cloud up until a few years ago.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but someone on Neogaf pointed out that Black Knight is missing from Castle Seige, and it could be a sign to an Ike echo. Are people over-analyzing?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76917519?

I was just about to post that

But I know the arguement for those who go to smash wiki is that’s not black knight in the throne

But here’s the thing though in a distance we immediately assuming it’s black knight so why would they change the colors of a nobody that was assumed to be black knight?

 

[viewtifulduck82]

At this point, Geno is Smash would be the ultimate community goal.

If Sakurai puts Geno in Smash, it would be bigger than Ridley for the fanbase, since it would mean we elevated a character from obscurity into arguably gaming's hall of fame.

But like, why. Why geno specifically? I can understand the appeal of raising a character from nothing to being in smash, but what has geno done to deserve the fanaticism he gets?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I know this is a brought up question a lot and I'm not trying to imply Geno won't be in because of it but wouls Geno be 3rd party or a first party? What about a 1.5 party?

 

[StormC]

But like, why. Why geno specifically? I can understand the appeal of raising a character from nothing to being in smash, but what has geno done to deserve the fanaticism he gets?

Forest Maze memes, mostly.

 

[ChronoBound]

Gen 6 was basically over when Smash Wii U & 3DS came out.

also blah blah blah vergeben blah blah blah.

Greninja was literally unveiled when Pokemon X/Y was only out for five months, and the next set of fully new Pokemon games would not come out until another three years later, and a full 2.5 years after Greninja's Smash debut. By comparison, assuming the Gen 7 Pokemon newcomer is shown in November, the generation will already be two years old at that point, and in one year's time, be outdated (Gen 8 is being released in 2019). For Lucario, Diamond/Pearl was only a year old when Brawl was released in Japan.

I wonder if Sakurai or the Pokemon Company have the foresight to see that any Gen 7 Pokemon would be unable to sell copies of Sun/Moon or Ultra Sun/Moon on a rapidly dying platform (3DS). Even notable big 3DS titles like Kirby Battle Royale and WarioWare Gold massively underperformed relative to other games in their respective series. The 3DS only has one year of life left in it at most, and all Nintendo themselves have publically planned for the console are ports (Luigi's Mansion and Bowser's Inside Story).

That being said I fully expect Incineroar as one of the few remaining non-echo newcomers in Ultimate. He might even be confirmed in a month's time if Sakurai decides to unveil one of Ultimate's remaining non-echo newcomers in the likely September Nintendo Direct.

 

[Deleted member]

I know this is a brought up question a lot and I'm not trying to imply Geno won't be in because of it but wouls Geno be 3rd party or a first party? What about a 1.5 party?

Third party sense he's owned by Square. He'd most likely be classified as a Mario character though.

 

[Glaciacott]

Out of curiosity, when talking about Arms... do people ACTUALLY want Spring Man, or is it something people just want because it's the most likely smash dlc inclusion from that series?

Because I honestly find Spring Man to be one of the most boring, if not THE most boring, Arms character. Min Min, Ribbon Girl and Twintelle were also all significantly more popular around the release of the game.