Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kuon]

Dark Samus is an American made character from a western game.

Really? I thought all Metroid games were Japanese. I stand corrected then. lol

 

[Sleepy_Icarus]

Doomfist as an Overwatch repwould mesh so well into Smash Bros. His three abilities could easily translate as b-moves.

As someone who mains Symmetra, we need Symmetra in Smash but Overwatch getting in is just not happening ever.

It's fun to dream.

 

[Zinith]

I don't think we're gonna get any American reps in this game. Even though Sakurai sometimes caters to the Western fanbase, I don't think he wants to put any characters from Western games in the game

Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K. Rool are all western.

 

[Momotsuki]

W

the more we go on the more consistent this looks consider this:
mii head gear in smash 4
king k
knuckles
ashley
viridi
toad
rathalos
chrome
geno 'chocobo
viridi
inkling
heihachi
monster hunter
Lloyd
zero
jacky
akira
Isabelle
black knight
protoman

most of the characters with headgear have received verification of representation in ultimate already. while i really dont care about geno, the pattern is there. if you are going to use evidence that geno has more support then you have to extend that same reasoning to all the characters here that have not been deconfirmed. I find it funny that geno continues to be treated as the only sole and worthy conclusion to add in in many people's eyes. I attribute it more to the echo chamber effect than anything else. because outside of here and some smash youtube channels i don't see this guy requested. There are bigger and better RPG characters to add imo.

the more i think about it the less i like chrome's inclusion. the community is predictable and when and if we get another unique fire emblem dlc (lets say black knight that fits the heroes vs villains thing happening) they will lose it. While chrome having roy's moveset without the dumb mechanic attached is fun, ultimately chrome cannot recover, like at all. competitively he will vanish long term. even in serious casual play, no one wants to play a character that get hit with an item at mid percent and falls to his death.

Woah, woah, OK. So there's a lot to unpack here. Just let me put on my reading glasses... OK, we're all set. First of all, I never said Geno was the only character who was likely as a result of this trend. Rather, I was responding to somebody else who brought that up, and was specifically referring to Geno. Second of all, Geno is easily one of the most highly requested characters I can really think of, and has been since before Smash 4 was released. If you'd rather other characters that's fine, but you have completely missed the point of what was simply my response to somebody's observation. And now let's talk about a complete non-sequitur on your part, regarding your short rambling on the subject of the inclusion of Chrom. At least, I assume you mean Chrom and that there was not a new character revealed named Chrome and nobody bothered to tell me. Anyway, so you say Chrom is a bad character. We have never seen nearly enough to gauge that. The general public has yet to get to play as him any. His recovery doesn't look that great, but it's certainly not awful. Characters with worse recovery have been very much viable. You mention that nobody will want to play him because of this, not even in "serious casual play" which is a self-contradictory term, and I personally don't think that makes much sense.

 

[Noipoi]

Ya know who really needs an echo?
Marth.

 

[Kuon]

Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K. Rool are all western.

Yeah but they're all from Japanese franchises, which is what I'm saying. Even if Dark Samus is from an American game, the franchise the game is from is primarily Japanese, right? I don't think we'll get a new character from a franchise that mainly makes Japanese games.

 

[Zinith]

Yeah but they're all from Japanese franchises, which is what I'm saying. Even if Dark Samus is from an American game, the franchise the game is from is primarily Japanese, right? I don't think we'll get a new character from a franchise that mainly makes Japanese games.

That's a good point, but rules have been broken before.

Especially after last weeks Direct...

 

[Kuon]

That's a good point, but rules have been broken before.

Especially after last weeks Direct...

You mean with Dark Samus's inclusion or with something else?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

the more i think about it the less i like chrome's inclusion. the community is predictable and when and if we get another unique fire emblem dlc (lets say black knight that fits the heroes vs villains thing happening) they will lose it. While chrome having roy's moveset without the dumb mechanic attached is fun, ultimately chrome cannot recover, like at all. competitively he will vanish long term. even in serious casual play, no one wants to play a character that get hit with an item at mid percent and falls to his death.

Criticizing something over pure speculation isn't being critical. It's looking for things to ***** about.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Wanna share this video of a fanmade FE:A support convo based on Chrom's arrival in Smash:

This video made me miss Awakening so much. ;_;

 

[Zinith]

You mean with Dark Samus's inclusion or with something else?

"One fighter per 3rd party franchise." Richter
"Echoes only have minor differences." Chrom
"The OG 12 can't have Echoes." Dark Samus

 

[Idon]

SMH, we still haven't gotten Eliwood or Hector as an echo for Ike

 

[Kuon]

"One fighter per 3rd party franchise." Richter
"Echoes only have minor differences." Chrom
"The OG 12 can't have Echoes." Dark Samus

Who said the original twelve can't have echoes? This is news to me

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

"The OG 12 can't have Echoes." Dark Samus

Who was saying that? I don't remember that being an argument against potential Echo Fighters, especially since Dr. Mario was grouped with the trio in Smash 4.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Symmetra in Smash wouldn't really work. Can you imagine the disaster her turrets would be in Smash? People would want her nerfed for turret camping the edges.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Do you guys think Cross Series Echoes could or should happen? Personally I don't think they will, but I definitely want them.

Cloning works by what is most convenient developmentally, and being cross-series hasn't stopped Sakurai before (e.g. Jigglypuff being cloned off of Kirby in 64 and Ganondorf off of Falcon in Melee). However I'm doubtful we'll get any cross-series Echoes as I've heard none that sound feasible; I don't think Blaziken off of Falcon would actually work considering their pretty different body builds, Giygas off of Mewtwo is only based off a low-resolution sprite that vaguely resembles Mewtwo, and Falcon is a more suitable Echo base for Black Shadow than Ganondorf is. If there was a workable cross-series Echo, I don't see what the big deal would be and think it would be perfectly fine to happen.

 

[Zinith]

Who said the original twelve can't have echoes? This is news to me

It was due to the understanding that the OG 12 would be given special treatment in this game and thus bunched together. Also, the way characters were unlocked implied that the 12 would be in their own group. An echo would've broken that...

All gone now

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K. Rool are all western.

Western-developed, but in the end, Nintendo is still the owner, so they hardly count in the context Kuon was referring to.

 

[Zinith]

Who was saying that? I don't remember that being an argument against potential Echo Fighters, especially since Dr. Mario was grouped with the trio in Smash 4.

It was brought up a lot in the Newcomer Speculation Thread, which I look at despite not posting in it...

 

[Starbound]

This talk of Overwatch really makes me wish Nintendo would make a team-based shooter using their own IPs. The cast and locales are so perfect given the action-based origins of most of their IPs.

If Overwatch is any indication, it would literally print money.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Who was saying that? I don't remember that being an argument against potential Echo Fighters, especially since Dr. Mario was grouped with the trio in Smash 4.

Not trying to support anyone who said the OG 12 couldn't have Echoes before Dark Samus, but in all fairness, Dr. Mario was not registered as an Echo Figther.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Yeah but they're all from Japanese franchises, which is what I'm saying. Even if Dark Samus is from an American game, the franchise the game is from is primarily Japanese, right? I don't think we'll get a new character from a franchise that mainly makes Japanese games.

Rayman and Banjo and Kazooie are both completely Western made franchises I believe. I wouldn't rule out Master Chief either but I think he's likelier for DLC then the base roster.

 

[ZephyrZ]

We haven't seen the Dark Metaknight skin for Metaknight yet.
Granted we've only seen the Galacta Knight alt yet, which has the cracked mask like Dark Metaknight so I'm not really counting on it, but the prospect is interesting.

Spoiler

I'd be up for it, I really liked amazing mirror and more representation would be nice.

Let's just give everyone edgy doppelgangers. Dark Link, Shadow the Edgehog, Shadow Mewtwo, Coldsteel the Hedgehog, Odin Dark, Shadow Dark Pit.

Okay I'm mostly just joking around, I've actually got no hard feelings against Dark Meta Knight. I just think Dark Metaknight is kind of funny because Metaknight himself is already an edgy doppelganger of sorts for Kirby, so Dark Metaknight is an edgy doppelganger of an edgy doppelganger. I could still see him happening though, especially if he gets the Lucina/Dark Pit treatment where they start out making him as an alt skin and then decide to go the extra mile with it. Actually now that I've pointed that out I think Dark Metaknight is far more likely then I originally gave him credit for.

 

[BlueMagician]

This talk of Overwatch really makes me wish Nintendo would make a team-based shooter using their own IPs. The cast and locales are so perfect given the action-based origins of most of their IPs.

If Overwatch is any indication, it would literally print money.

For what it's worth, Splatoon was almost that - at one point in development it was a team shooter with Mario and Yoshi.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't think we're gonna get any American reps in this game. Even though Sakurai sometimes caters to the Western fanbase, I don't think he wants to put any characters from Western games in the game

Diddy Kong, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus are all western characters. I don't know if you know this, but Europe is part of the Western world.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Not trying to support anyone who said the OG 12 couldn't have Echoes before Dark Samus, but in all fairness, Dr. Mario was not registered as an Echo Figther.

Devil's Advocate: "Echo Fighters" are simply a brand for clone fighters that share a lot of similarities to their base character. While Dr. Mario was the most unique of the clone trio, he was still apart of the clone trio which you KNOW would have been grounds for "Echo Fighter" status back then.

 

[Diem]

Rayman and Banjo and Kazooie are both completely Western made franchises I believe. I wouldn't rule out Master Chief either but I think he's likelier for DLC then the base roster.

Master Chief in Smash would actually kill the internet, but unless Sakurai has played Halo and wants to buddy up with Microsoft (who would probably be just as cool with it as any other third party), it's not going to happen. But he is one of the most iconic video game characters in the world, so it wouldn't be too out of the question if they really wanted to go the "Video Game All-Stars" route.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Devil's Advocate: "Echo Fighters" are simply a brand for clone fighters that share a lot of similarities to their base character. While Dr. Mario was the most unique of the clone trio, he was still apart of the clone trio which you KNOW would have been grounds for "Echo Fighter" status back then.

Point taken.

But for Ultimate specifically, he wasn't, and some people like to only look on the surface of things rather than look deep.

 

[Deleted member]

Ya know who really needs an echo?
Marth.

Does Lucina not exist now?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Definitely, but I wouldn't be surprised if Isabelle got hit first.

Seeing as Ashley is an Assist Trophy herself, I really don't see Isabelle doing any better. And like I've said before, Isabelle is a character whom I actually want to stay as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Bowserlick]

There's going to be an Echo DLC bundle.
People will dish out money for three or so echo fighters at a time.

 

[Noipoi]

Does Lucina not exist now?

more.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Guys, Smash Brothers is a Nintendo fighting game, and Nintendo is a Japan based company. Of course we aren't going to get many western owned characters since literally only third parties can fulfill that quota.

 

[Idon]

Does Lucina not exist now?

She might as well not

I believe that was...
a joke.

 

[Deleted member]

I said more.

No, you literally didn't.

Ya know who really needs an echo?
Marth.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Does Lucina not exist now?

Luci-who? :V

 

[MBRedboy31]

Does Lucina not exist now?

We should get an Echo of Lucina such that, on the CSS when the option to combine echos into their base’s square is enabled, this Echo is placed inside Lucina’s selection spot that’s inside Marth’s square, so that we have a nesting doll of echoes. Not to mention they’d be so adorably tiny on the CSS like that, awww

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

We are intellectual geniuses for wanting Symmetra in Smash and for maining her.

Symmetra is perfection and only true intellectuals like us can appreciate this fact

 

[Noipoi]

No, you literally didn't.

Dang. I coulda sworn I said Marth needs more echoes.
I guess that's what happens when you try to make a funny on the internet .

 

[ZephyrZ]

Honestly, before I thought Docter Mario not being counted as an echo made absolutely perfect sense. Lucina and Dark Pit played pretty much exactly as their counterparts in Smash (yes Lucina didn't have a tipper, but spacing is still extremely important if you want to play her optimally). Docter Mario, on the other hand, couldn't be played quite as aggressively as his doppelganger because of his decreased mobility. You can see this in their tier placements - Lucy and Pitoo are very close to Marth and Pit while Doc is much farther away from Mario.

But then they showed Chrom, who without his sourspots, will probably be far more focused far more on spacing and far less on rushdown than Roy. I actually expect him to play much more like Marth or Ike than like Roy himself. And then you've got Dark Samus, who's floatier but has an actual roll and potentially more combo potential out of her dash attack.

So now I'm think the reason Doc is getting any special treatment at all is solely because he was a Melee veteran and that's it. He has seniority status, and I guess Sakurai wants to differentiate his cloning philosophies of old (reusing assets and trying to sell them as a totally different character Falcondorf style) with his new one (fun little bonus characters meant to please fans but who aren't unique or important enough to justify their own moveset).