Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rocket Raccoon]

Dang. I coulda sworn I said Marth needs more echoes.
I guess that's what happens when you try to make a funny on the internet .

You dropped this, /s.

 

[Iridium]

Hmmm, it seems only on Reddit do I find posts about if the Belmonts can beat Bayonetta. Seriously, I've seen this topic there mentioned many times, and I don't know why.

 

[SonicMario]

It was due to the understanding that the OG 12 would be given special treatment in this game and thus bunched together. Also, the way characters were unlocked implied that the 12 would be in their own group. An echo would've broken that...

All gone now

If someone really cares about that though, there is the option to stack them. Thus the 12 will still remain at the top of the roster that way.

Granted, I'm going to choose to stack them for different reasons other then the oddity of Dark Samus being listed amongst the SSB64 characters or Chrom and Lucina listed among the Melee characters.

 

[Idon]

Hmmm, it seems only on Reddit do I find posts about if the Belmonts can beat Bayonetta. Seriously, I've seen this topic there mentioned many times, and I don't know why.

Probably because people are thinking "holy hunter" would theoretically beat a "demonic witch" completely ignoring the fact that Bayonetta is a combo power-trip where you get ranked on how well you beat up her version of God.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Hmmm, it seems only on Reddit do I find posts about if the Belmonts can beat Bayonetta. Seriously, I've seen this topic there mentioned many times, and I don't know why.

Spacing probably or is this canonically?

 

[Zinith]

If someone really cares about that though, there is the option to stack them. Thus the 12 will still remain at the top of the roster that way.

Granted, I'm going to choose to stack them for different reasons other then the oddity of Dark Samus being listed amongst the SSB64 characters or Chrom and Lucina listed among the Melee characters.

Those arguments I listed were BEFORE the August Direct. Things have changed because of it...

 

[DevaAshera]

For the shiny Pokemon at least, I hear The Pokemon Company is pretty stingy about how they're implemented in Smash. Hence why Charizard had his purple shiny instead of his newer, black shiny in Smash 4.

Yeah..the Pokémon Company literally sucks..

 

[ZephyrZ]

Hmmm, it seems only on Reddit do I find posts about if the Belmonts can beat Bayonetta. Seriously, I've seen this topic there mentioned many times, and I don't know why.

I think they're all just desperate to see a Bayonetta counter and are hoping the cool new guy with a new playstyle will be it.

The idea of Ridley countering Bayo was shut down immediately by the E3 invitational and to think another superheavy like K.Rool would beat a mobile, combo heavy character like her is laughable. Although I've beaten a lot of incompetent For Glory Bayonettas with Charizard.

 

[Iridium]

Spacing probably or is this canonically?

Nope. The actual matchup possibility.

 

[DevaAshera]

I think they're all just desperate to see a Bayonetta counter and are hoping the cool new guy with a new playstyle will be it.

The idea of Ridley countering Bayo was shut down immediately by the E3 invitational and to think another superheavy like K.Rool would beat a mobile, combo heavy character like her is laughable. Although I've beaten a lot of incompetent For Glory Bayonettas with Charizard.

Honestly, I'm not too worried about Bayonetta being unbalanced since it's not like MetaKnight was still broken in the last game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Who cares? Diddy is gonna beat her in neutral yet again, and banana > Bayonetta anyway. I do not have a single drop of fear for this witch.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Honestly, I'm not too worried about Bayonetta being unbalanced since it's not like MetaKnight was still broken in the last game.

Agreed. And even if she is still somehow still broken at launch, this game will probably still be getting balance patches for a while. If anything, I'm more worried that she'll be overnerfed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Since we're talking about Echoes, here's my take. I think we're going to get half original newcomers/half echo newcomers. Obviously I believe the Gardevoir leak. If you wanna argue about it with me, don't bother. I've heard everything there is to talk about and we literally discussed this last night. So just ignore this post if you're just gonna tell me why you think the leak is fake because I don't care.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if we got even more echoes or if they were early free DLC. I wouldn't be surprised to see Shadow, Ken, or Impa. I think Dixie Kong will be early DLC akin to Mewtwo, because I believe she'll require more fine tuning than an echo fighter would, and I have Rex as DLC because it's a strategy that allows for all Xenoblade protagonists to be playable. This is Super Smash Bros Ultimate, after all.

DLC: Dixie Kong, Rex, Spring Man, Ribbon Girl ε, Byleth.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Nope. The actual matchup possibility.

Just FSmash the Bayo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

SMH, we still haven't gotten Eliwood or Hector as an echo for Ike

To be honest, I think Alm is best fitted for this role. Maybe have Marth's tipper mechanic pasted on Ike's moveset? Since their Falchions are pretty much the same weapon anyway.

 

[Iridium]

I just realized how awkward height differences are with Pokémon here again. Why is Lucario 3'11"? Why is Charizard 5'7" (even I am taller than it)? Proportions are so weird in that franchise . . .

Literally all of us could be taller than Lucario, and to a significant degree.

 

[Idon]

To be honest, I think Alm is best fitted for this role. Maybe have Marth's tipper mechanic pasted on Ike's moveset? Since their Falchions are pretty much the same weapon anyway.

I dunno, I've always thought Alm was more a left-handed Roy type of guy myself.

 

[ImajinForSmash]

Sombra is clearly the woke option. Only intellectuals play Sombra.

Also Imajin for Smash!

 

[Noipoi]

I just realized how awkward height differences are with Pokémon here again. Why is Lucario 3'11"? Why is Charizard 5'7" (even I am taller than it)? Proportions are so weird in that franchise . . .

Literally all of us could be taller than Lucario, and to a significant degree.

Pokemon heights have never made much sense, at a certain point you just gotta say "Pichu is small, Charizard is big" and leave it at that.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

To briefly bring up Marth again, a friend of mine just DM'd me an interesting fact on social media:

"Marth's sword is called the 'Falchion', but in the real world a falchion has only one edge and is much wider, looking more like a machete. Marth's sword, as well as those of his clones Lucina and Chrom, seems to be based more on the 'Jian', which was a double-edged straight sword used in China."

Interesting...

Anyway on echoes, I think the developers can be very liberal with them because there's a bit less pressure to appeal to relevance and/or popularity considering they're bonus characters that are much easier to implement than original characters. So I'm not going to discount echo ideas.

On the Gardevoir leak, I'm not going to argue with you TheLastJinjo (I wouldn't mind Gardevoir at all), but I have the idea that Gardevoir could work as an echo of Zelda. Din's Fire could be Energy Ball or Magical Leaf, up B could be Teleport, down B could be one of those black holes that the Pokedex mentions that works defensively instead of offensively (and of course, wouldn't be broken like the actual Black Hole item), and neutral B could be Reflect or Light Screen. Her normals could also be similar to Zelda's, and her Final Smash could be Mega Gardevoir using Moonblast or something. Zelda is the glass shoe to Gardevoir's Cinderalla's foot. It just works. Not saying that this is more or less likely, but that it's a good idea for a cross-series echo. The only thing I'd have reservations about, and this probably gives more weight to Gardevoir being a unique character, is the lightning kicks. Gardevoir isn't really a kicking Pokemon lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Sombra is clearly the woke option. Only intellectuals play Sombra.

Also Imajin for Smash!

If imajin gets revealed i will tear up a pillow and change my profile picture to some stupid imajin fan art

 

[Iridium]

Pokemon heights have never made much sense, at a certain point you just gotta say "Pichu is small, Charizard is big" and leave it at that.

I guess you're right, but I get so uncomfortable being able to say that Lucario is somehow shorter than an actual ball of gas (no Mega).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I dunno, I've always thought Alm was more a left-handed Roy type of guy myself.

Yes, Roy would fit far better but Chrom already took this Echo spot. I think Alm being a Ike Echo and having his neutral B being a Bow & Arrow attack similar to one of the Links would be a good choice. It would fit better than Celica being a Robin Echo.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Pokemon heights have never made much sense, at a certain point you just gotta say "Pichu is small, Charizard is big" and leave it at that.

It’s even more confusing when you consider the weights of a lot of larger Pokémon.
Some farm animals IRL are way heavier than some of the larger Pokémon that’d realistically weigh way more...

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, Roy would fit far better but Chrom already took this Echo spot. I think Alm being a Ike Echo and having his neutral B being a Bow & Arrow attack similar to one of the Links would be a good choice. It would fit better than Celica being a Robin Echo.

Im still confused why Chrom is a echo of Roy in palutenas guidance the goddess of nature lady said it would be a echo of Ike..

 

[Nazyrus]

Pokemon heights have never made much sense, at a certain point you just gotta say "Pichu is small, Charizard is big" and leave it at that.

My ultimate nightmare is to imagine a wailord accidentaly getting out of the pokeball inside a pokemon center… yep… RIP everyone, lol

 

[Diddy Kong]

Im still confused why Chrom is a echo of Roy in palutenas guidance the goddess of nature lady said it would be a echo of Ike..

Frankly, that was written before Roy was included in Smash 4 as a DLC character. Sakurai stated many times that when designing Chrom, all they really could come up with in the end was a character who has a inbetween fighting style of Marth and Ike. Roy comes closest to that...

 

[ZephyrZ]

So, uh, to all of you who were supporting Hilda as a Zelda echo, I've got some bad news for you. It turns out there actually is an alt costume based off of her in the demo, it just belongs to a completely different character.

Spoiler: Hilda Alt

This post is a joke btw.

In all seriousness though, I think I'm going to use this as my main alt. I generally prefer to stick with default colors, especially for Charizard, but the male trainer's voice is just...no. Besides, Squirtle, Zard and the trainer herself don't look all too bad in those colors.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

It’s even more confusing when you consider the weights of a lot of larger Pokémon.
Some farm animals IRL are way heavier than some of the larger Pokémon that’d realistically weigh way more...

Then on the opposite end you get small pokemon that are supposed to weigh a lot more than they realistically should, like the 2 foot tall Larvitar that supposedly weighs over 150 pounds. This image sums up pretty well how the Pokedex entries were probably made by a 10 year old.

 

[Idon]

Im still confused why Chrom is a echo of Roy in palutenas guidance the goddess of nature lady said it would be a echo of Ike..

Because that joke just relied on the fact that they both had the move "aether"

In reality, Chrom has to fight similar to Lucina to keep their whole father-daughter dynamic.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Kalypso

Spoiler: Zant

Lizard waifu who I hope is in future DKC installments and Zant who is cool.

 

[Opossum]

To briefly bring up Marth again, a friend of mine just DM'd me an interesting fact on social media:

"Marth's sword is called the 'Falchion', but in the real world a falchion has only one edge and is much wider, looking more like a machete. Marth's sword, as well as those of his clones Lucina and Chrom, seems to be based more on the 'Jian', which was a double-edged straight sword used in China."

Interesting...

Anyway on echoes, I think the developers can be very liberal with them because there's a bit less pressure to appeal to relevance and/or popularity considering they're bonus characters that are much easier to implement than original characters. So I'm not going to discount echo ideas.

On the Gardevoir leak, I'm not going to argue with you TheLastJinjo (I wouldn't mind Gardevoir at all), but I have the idea that Gardevoir could work as an echo of Zelda. Din's Fire could be Energy Ball or Magical Leaf, up B could be Teleport, down B could be one of those black holes that the Pokedex mentions that works defensively instead of offensively (and of course, wouldn't be broken like the actual Black Hole item), and neutral B could be Reflect or Light Screen. Her normals could also be similar to Zelda's, and her Final Smash could be Mega Gardevoir using Moonblast or something. Zelda is the glass shoe to Gardevoir's Cinderalla's foot. It just works. Not saying that this is more or less likely, but that it's a good idea for a cross-series echo. The only thing I'd have reservations about, and this probably gives more weight to Gardevoir being a unique character, is the lightning kicks. Gardevoir isn't really a kicking Pokemon lol.

If you think the Falchion not being an actual falchion is odd, hoo boy. Wait until you hear about Excalibur...

 

[Deleted member]

Because that joke just relied on the fact that they both had the move "aether"

In reality, Chrom has to fight similar to Lucina to keep their whole father-daughter dynamic.

WHAT I have never played a fire emblem game and i probably sound like a idiot but Chrom is Lucinas FATHER!!!

 

[Dixie Kong]

IMAGES

Lizard waifu who I hope is in future DKC installments and Zant who is cool.

I swear, if they end up getting in before Dixie..

 

[Iridium]

Then on the opposite end you get small pokemon that are supposed to weigh a lot more than they realistically should, like the 2 foot tall Larvitar that supposedly weighs over 150 pounds. This image sums up pretty well how the Pokedex entries were probably made by a 10 year old.

Remember when Ash somehow managed to carry a 109.1 pound Hippopotas on his head like it was nothing? Anime logic.

 

[Idon]

WHAT I have never played a fire emblem game and i probably sound like a idiot but Chrom is Lucinas FATHER!!!

Yeah it's a meme spoiler at this point, like Darth Vader being Luke's father.

Plus, it became pretty apparent during Robin's reveal trailer when Lucina glances over at an unconscious Chrom and says "For my father!"

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

WHAT I have never played a fire emblem game and i probably sound like a idiot but Chrom is Lucinas FATHER!!!

And the descendant of Marth

 

[Pakky]

I swear, if they end up getting in before Dixie..

This is a RARE time in smash where they seem to be bringing everything back including scrapped ideas like so I think she's in.

 

[ZephyrZ]

If you think the Falchion not being an actual falchion is odd, hoo boy. Wait until you hear about Excalibur...

Honestly I actually really like names like Excaliber and Mjolnir for tomes. They aren't trying to be the weapons they're named after, they're just alluding to the legends. It's also neat that Excaliber attacks with blades made out of wind in reference to its namesake.

Falchion has no such excuse. It's a sword named after a completely unrelated type of sword and it's honestly really dumb. The localization team should of changed it while they had the chance, but now it's too late.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

banana > Bayonetta anyway

But Bayo is the best character in Smash 4, not banana

Agreed. And even if she is still somehow still broken at launch, this game will probably still be getting balance patches for a while. If anything, I'm more worried that she'll be overnerfed.

Meta Knight handled the overnerf well, so can Bayonetta