Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

Seeing people say the Miis could possibly be OP is kinda funny. From what I've seen so far, I don't think we need to worry that they'll be the next Bayonetta.

I acknowledge smaller sizes being an unfair advantage, but I don't think it's that hard of a fix. If Sakurai somehow messes it up and they aren't allowed in tournaments for whatever reason, then oh well. He's pushing to get them available online, and that by itself is a huge step forward. Just being able to use them in online matches is good enough for me.

 

[MainJPW]

True, the Assist Trophies do tend to have lower resolution models.

But if you're developing a character into a fully playable fighter, but have to drop them due to time restraints, then you're likely to work with what you have already. If they had only a handful of animations and a working model when they were dropped, then most of the work needed to have them as an Assist Trophy is already done. The quality of their model would depend on how far they were into development when they were dropped.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this was Knuckles’s situation.

As you can see he’s really similar to a playable character. He seems to share animations with Sonic for his dash and Homing Attack and has a pretty high quality model. And the freaking air dodge.

That's actually a really good catch, one that I hadn't noticed. Good eye.

That said, I think Vaanrose put it best. Some of the characters shown were simply made as presentable as they could be for the trailers. The game is still in an unfinished state, and so are many of the playable characters. One of Wolf's models could be the 'Internal Testing Model' whereas the other could be the 'Presentation Model'. However, if Wolf was a bit further behind in development in comparison to others, which makes sense, as they seem to be giving Wolf a extra attention by giving his moveset an upgrade, then they may have just had to make due with that models and footage they had.

Yeah, I just found it weird that they used the inaccurate model for some footage and screenshots instead of using the accurate one from the beginning and middle of his trailer but his showcase being rushed clearly explains it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

By everyone's responses, nobody thinks he's edgy.

Yeah, you just don't want to get on his bad side, ever.

Interesting 4chan post. It’s not a leak though:
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/425220541

Maybe this will allow people to stop looking for info and try to enjoy the rest of summer.

That said, this is definitely plausible, seeing how protective the Big N has been of its IPs, lately.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So... does anyone else fear this game might be a bit rushed?

Things don't seem as ready as they usually do.

Or maybe its just because we've seen so much, this early.... I don't know.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So... does anyone else fear this game might be a bit rushed?

Things don't seem as ready as they usually do.

Or maybe its just because we've seen so much, this early.... I don't know.

They've been working on the game since 2015 and the development cycle for a Smash game has literally never been smoother. We know a large chunk of the playable cast but almost nothing else, which is why you feel that way. The game isn't being rushed, but rather, the game's MARKETING is being rushed. How do you sell a game in less than 12 months that's expected to push the system sales?

 

[Diddy Kong]

SO! The 22nd happened without a reveal, start doubting these "leaks" now?

Don't wanna say I told you all, but I DID told you all.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Seeing people say the Miis could possibly be OP is kinda funny. From what I've seen so far, I don't think we need to worry that they'll be the next Bayonetta.

I acknowledge smaller sizes being an unfair advantage, but I don't think it's that hard of a fix. If Sakurai somehow messes it up and they aren't allowed in tournaments for whatever reason, then oh well. He's pushing to get them available online, and that by itself is a huge step forward. Just being able to use them in online matches is good enough for me.

They don’t need to be actually OP to get themselves in trouble with people, they just need to be good enough that some people get annoyed that they have to take what they subejctively see as not a real character as a serious metagame threat.

But yeah, playing as them online would be a very nice step forward.

 

[Noipoi]

All i'm saying is if Mii's really aren't banned online.
Get ready to fight a lot of Hitlers.

 

[NintenZ]

As you can see he’s really similar to a playable character. He seems to share animations with Sonic for his dash and Homing Attack and has a pretty high quality model. And the freaking air dodge.

Yeah actually for Knuckles I could see it being the case, I did examine the model and sure enough it has a lot of detail:

 

[Deleted member]

All i'm saying is if Mii's really aren't banned online.
Get ready to fight a lot of Hitlers.

I'm not sure how feasible this would be, but a solution to this would be to display a default on the opponent's console, and the person actually using Miis gets to see their Mii.

 

[Cosmic77]

All i'm saying is if Mii's really aren't banned online.
Get ready to fight a lot of Hitlers.

Honestly, I don't think it'll be as bad as we think. Mario Kart has allowed Miis to be playable since the Wii, and while there were a few times when something inappropriate popped up, a majority of the Miis were either generic avatars or cartoon/video game characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

All i'm saying is if Mii's really aren't banned online.
Get ready to fight a lot of Hitlers.

I don't see how curbstomping nazis is a bad thing

In all seriousness, I expect generic templates to be made

 

[Roberk]

However if customs are getting pulled, I'd rework the Miis into an entirely different character. IMO the Miis were made as an ad for custom moves. With them gone, I'd remake them into something that actually pays homage to games where they star in (Wii Sports, Pilotwings, Miitopia, those numerous Streetpass games, etc. etc.)

I disagree, the Miis in this Smash are still meant to be blank slates just more streamlined. Miis while they promoted Custom Moves, were ultimately meant to be ways for people to put their Gokus and Spongebobs in the game (and themselves). I think Miis are better utilized as avatar characters who have generic movesets that most characters that people would like to have in Smash could fit. (Put your Shonen characters in Brawlers, sci-fi/fps characters as Gunners, etc.) Specific Mii stuff is better represented in the likes of Stages so that the Miis themselves can be as "blank slate" as possible for fighting game avatar characters.

Interesting 4chan post. It’s not a leak though:
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/425220541

Sigh, if this is true then is 4chan becoming too mainstream? That's honestly kinda depressing, it still has anonymous posting but it'll never be the same if it's a highly prioritized website for executives.

 

[Garteam]

So... does anyone else fear this game might be a bit rushed?

Things don't seem as ready as they usually do.

Or maybe its just because we've seen so much, this early.... I don't know.

Honestly, not really. I think there's still a lot we don't know about (mostly the single player aspects), which can be a little discomforting when the game is this close. However, Sakurai has stated this game had its project plan finished in December 2015 and began development after his break (which began after Corrin and Bayonetta's release in February 2016). Assuming the break lasted 6 months at the absolute most, this game has had at least 2 years of development, about as long as Brawl and Wii U/3DS. So, there should be about as much content as those games.

If its October or November and we still don't know anything about the additional newcomers or single player modes, then I'd probably start to worry. But right now, I'm just accepting this game has a weird public development relative to previous Smash games.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

They've been working on the game since 2015 and the development cycle for a Smash game has literally never been smoother. We know a large chunk of the playable cast but almost nothing else, which is why you feel that way. The game isn't being rushed, but rather, the game's MARKETING is being rushed. How do you sell a game in less than 12 months that's expected to push the system sales?

The reason it looks rushed is because it's not finished. Character models and stuff will be improved upon the release of the game.

SO! The 22nd happened without a reveal, start doubting these "leaks" now?

Don't wanna say I told you all, but I DID told you all.

Me too man. I'm not trustin' any leaks.

 

[RandomAce]

Honestly, I don't think it'll be as bad as we think. Mario Kart has allowed Miis to be playable since the Wii, and while there were a few times when something inappropriate popped up, a majority of the Miis were either generic avatars or cartoon/video game characters.

I saw a Slenderman when I was playing Mario Kart Wii, and it was just a race between him and me. Lol.

I wonder what information was real that was actually leaked.

Also didn’t Bill say that Sakurai is the most relaxed he has ever been when working on a Smash game. I think the development of this game is going smoothly and on time. So I wouldn’t worry. I just hope that we have an actual online ranking system and some characters I want in.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm hoping they do this for Palutena but I doubt it. I loved Heavenly Light because it was a lot of fun in multiplayer matches but I have no clue what move that could be mapped to...so it's probably gone

Possibly RIP to one of her greatest moves

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

SO! The 22nd happened without a reveal, start doubting these "leaks" now?

Don't wanna say I told you all, but I DID told you all.

I've been tempering my expectations, as usual. No reason to eat gullible soup when it's still only a little over 4 months left.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Don't forgot MainJPW Knuckles had a mii costume as Smash 4 DLC. Not to mention he still appears at the background for Green Hill. If Knuckles was playable before he became an assist trophy, then I can see him work like Dedede and the two Links. Except when a player would select Knuckles in Green Hill, then Knuckles wouldn't appear at all. Only Tails and Silver would appear. It would make sense if Knuckles was going to be playable because of the Mii costume, his popularity/memes, and since this is Sonic's third appearance in the Smash Bros series, I could see Sonic getting another rep since Sonic kinda feels like Nintendo recently, but it wouldn't be priority. So, if anything like time constraints or issues popped up, Knuckles would've been cut. Since the development team would've done work on him, they made him as an assist trophy instead of getting rid of him completely. If this was the case and Knuckles wasn't a assist trophy, then I still think he wouldn't be DLC because Sakurai doesn't like to sell cut content that they worked on. Plus, MAYBE Shadow was planned to be an assist trophy while Knuckles being playable, but issues came up and Knuckles became an assist trophy instead. Since this could've been decided later in development, the team decided to make Shadow an Echo Fighter since they couldn't make Knuckles playable. Just like how Wolf was chosen over Krystal in brawl.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Made some smash icons. Looking for all the ones fans created also. I see them in posts, but going though 2500 pages is not going to happen. where can we find these. I found the official icons already.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

View attachment 154084

Made some smash icons. Looking for all the ones fans created also. I see them in posts, but going though 2500 pages is not going to happen. where can we find these. I found the official icons already.

Imadethistoseealeak made a thread in the newcomer speculation forum for fanmade icon requests.

Also, what series are these icons in particular from?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Imadethistoseealeak made a thread in the newcomer speculation forum for fanmade icon requests.

Also, what series are these icons in particular from?

yay. going there.


In Order

Goemon
Ebisumaru
Sasuke
Yae
Suzaku
Koroyuta
Goroku
Baben
Maki
Ryu from Breath of Fire 3
Aya from Parasite Eve
Marina from Mischief Makers

 

[Mutsukki]

I'm still not worried about the number of newcomers, and I really don't think anyone should start freaking out just yet. I've been seeing people say we might only get five more characters at best, despite the fact that all we really know about this Smash game is (1) everyone is returning, and (2) we're getting a bunch of returning stages.

I know I'm repeating what I've already said numerous times, but calm down and put your pessimism aside until we learn more about this game. We're less than six months away and we still know squat about the new modes, new stages, new trophies, new online features (which will definitely be something Nintendo will want to touch thanks to their new service), and the dozens of returning features from other Smash games (Classic, Home-Run, Challenges, etc.). Saying there's not enough time to reveal more than five new characters seems laughable when you look at everything else that hasn't been touched yet.

The reasons you just pointed out is the reason people should be realistic, which is very different from pessimistic. Sakurai said we shouldn't expect much this time around and all points forward to him really meaning it. I think it's also very unfair to him for us to still expect so much. 5 characters is a LOT really, and we're taking that as the bare minimum.

Are we really discounting custom specials now? I swear I saw Kirby using his ice breath special in one of the screenshots on the site.

See? No vortex, just an icy wind (disregarding the I.C.'s little block). It's a safe assumption to say that custom moves are making a comeback, don't call gloom and doom just yet.

Nobody pointed this out... but the vortex is clearly there, check inside his mouth and you'll se a cone shooting out.

So... does anyone else fear this game might be a bit rushed?

Things don't seem as ready as they usually do.

Or maybe its just because we've seen so much, this early.... I don't know.

What doesn't seem finished...? Wolf? I dunno, I don't ever remember Smash looking super ready before release. I think the trailer was somewhat rushed, but that's a very different case from the game itself being rushed.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So... does anyone else fear this game might be a bit rushed?

Things don't seem as ready as they usually do.

Or maybe its just because we've seen so much, this early.... I don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MZoAMOMkJY
This is a good video explaining the issue you're talking about.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

As you can see, Knuckles has it at least:

Let me get this straight. From this video and others we can see that:

- Knuckles has a 3-hit neutral attack.
- A Homing Attack
- A Dash identical to Sonic
- Major Eruption (Burrows underground and launches with an uppercut)
- A Directional Air Dodge.

He's just a playable character lmao.

Are these devs basically jabbing on Project M for making Knuckles a playable character?

 

[Fenriraga]

So... does anyone else fear this game might be a bit rushed?

Things don't seem as ready as they usually do.

Or maybe its just because we've seen so much, this early.... I don't know.

I feel like it might seem that way primarily because of how much they dumped on us at once.

When 4 and Brawl were revealed, we only had nearly single-digit character and stage counts. Whereas Ultimate dumped every character in the entire series on us, and an even larger number of stages, with not all of them likely finished being developed considering things people have noticed and the E3 build only having about half of the characters.

But at the end of the day, it's had just as much development time as any other Smash game. I don't think we have anything to worry about. If the game does end up that way, we all know Sakurai loves his delays. :V

 

[staindgrey]

So... does anyone else fear this game might be a bit rushed?

Things don't seem as ready as they usually do.

Or maybe its just because we've seen so much, this early.... I don't know.

I feel like this isn't pointed out enough:

Smash 4 came out in 2014. That's four years ago. For comparison's sake, Mortal Kombat X came out four years and a console generation after MK9.

In the case of Brawl and Smash 4's more lengthy wait times, production didn't start immediately after the previous one was released. Ultimate seems to have started while they were still finishing Smash 4 DLC.

Seems like it's right on schedule. The only thing that's different is that we haven't had a couple years of hype following the initial too-early announcement.

 

[dezeray112]

SO! The 22nd happened without a reveal, start doubting these "leaks" now?

Don't wanna say I told you all, but I DID told you all.

To be honest, I knew the 22nd July Direct wasn't really going to happen in the first place.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

View attachment 154084

Made some smash icons. Looking for all the ones fans created also. I see them in posts, but going though 2500 pages is not going to happen. where can we find these. I found the official icons already.

yay. going there.


In Order

Goemon
Ebisumaru
Sasuke
Yae
Suzaku
Koroyuta
Goroku
Baben
Maki
Ryu from Breath of Fire 3
Aya from Parasite Eve
Marina from Mischief Makers

Love to see some Ganbare Goemon love here (especially Yae, she's my fave gal from the series ). I never expected to see THOSE TWO from one of the PSX entries, either, interesting picks.

Sadly, Aya showing up would be impossible, seeing as unlike Cloud she didn't even make appearances outside of her own games, let alone on Nintendo systems. The Third Birthday also killed off whatever goodwill there was left for her series, as it was Other M levels of controversial.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Man, we need new voice clips for most of the characters this time around. But with the recent footage of Zelda and Ganondorf I'm feeling confident that most of the brawl characters will get new ones

Peach needs an update on her voice asap. especially on her taunts.

 

[Wyoming]

Man, we need new voice clips for most of the characters this time around. But with the recent footage of Zelda and Ganondorf I'm feeling confident that most of the brawl characters will get new ones

Peach needs an update on her voice asap. especially on her taunts.

Smash 4's re-using of audio like voice clips, victory tunes, etc. always bothered me. I liked every game having its own arrangement for the little details like that.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Love to see some Ganbare Goemon love here (especially Yae, she's my fave gal from the series ). I never expected to see THOSE TWO from one of the PSX entries, either, interesting picks.

Sadly, Aya showing up would be impossible, seeing as unlike Cloud she didn't even make appearances outside of her own games, let alone on Nintendo systems. The Third Birthday also killed off whatever goodwill there was left for her series, as it was Other M levels of controversial.

I understand and agree with all of that. Still had fun making them though.
As for Goemon characters, only expect Goemon if ever. All others are pipedreams.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Smash 4's re-using of audio like voice clips, victory tunes, etc. always bothered me. I liked every game having its own arrangement for the little details like that.

Totally it's a small detail that doesn't affect gameplay at all but hearing some the Brawls voice clips in Smash 4 is always jarring for me at least.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

I'm not bothered when they reuse voice clips like Mario or Pikachu. They not a big priority for me. However, I will bet that Wolf, Young Link, Pichu, and probably Falco will need new voice clips. I'm not sure about some of the characters like Palutena, or Bowser Jr.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Strangely some character videos for those not in the demo don't have any voice clips used at all.. hmmmm.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

To be honest, I knew the 22nd July Direct wasn't really going to happen in the first place.

Help me bit out here pal, I can't deal with this big horde of Dittos.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Man, we need new voice clips for most of the characters this time around. But with the recent footage of Zelda and Ganondorf I'm feeling confident that most of the brawl characters will get new ones

Peach needs an update on her voice asap. especially on her taunts.

I don’t think the Mario characters are getting updated lines (maybe including Daisy since they didn’t bother giving Rosa original voice clips in Smash 4. It seems more likely for characters with either an entirely different design or have a change in actor/voice pitch), so the Mario squad might not be lucky like the Triforce Trinity and Marth/Ike

Help me bit out here pal, I can't deal with this big horde of Dittos.

But Dittos are good

I'm not bothered when they reuse voice clips like Mario or Pikachu. They not a big priority for me. However, I will bet that Wolf, Young Link, Pichu, and probably Falco will need new voice clips. I'm not sure about some of the characters like Palutena, or Bowser Jr.

Wolf and Falco are guaranteed for voice clip changes, but Palutena (and Snake for that matter) will go down the Pit route and keep the same voice clips while adding new ones for possible move changes and secret convos

Are these devs basically jabbing on Project M for making Knuckles a playable character?

Sakurai prefers chuckles over muscles

 

[Fenriraga]

Strangely some character videos for those not in the demo don't have any voice clips used at all.. hmmmm.

None of the character videos have voices.

Likely to avoid having to edit in voice lines for characters with different voices in different reigons.

 

[Zerp]

Strangely some character videos for those not in the demo don't have any voice clips used at all.. hmmmm.

I thought they all didn't have their voices in the videos, they all have sound effects but not the actual voice clips. Anyway the lack of voicework throughout the videos could just be covering for some of them not having their voices in the game yet, it'd be jarring if Snake and Bayonetta were fully voiced in their videos and say, Wario wasn't because they didn't record lines for him yet.

 

[blackghost]

They don’t need to be actually OP to get themselves in trouble with people, they just need to be good enough that some people get annoyed that they have to take what they subejctively see as not a real character as a serious metagame threat.

But yeah, playing as them online would be a very nice step forward.

anyone that doesnt see the miis as reall characters is not worth discussing it with. they are on the CSS screen. there wwas nothing there but a back button and characters and a custom on off switch.
there were zero custom moves that would have challenged or changed the top tiers in smash 4 even small brawler would not have been a huge problem if people bthered to learn a mu.
since when do people get to decide who is and isnt a metagame threat? does that mean if fox or falco sucks fans will be outraged (actually saying that now thats exactly what would happen.)
i want custom moves back, implement them better and let characters have options. you want to prove palutena is overlooked? or shulk is good but just needs some changes? let them prove it. varuety is spice of life in everything but smash stages and custom moves.