Smash UK Discussion Thread - Check first post for tournaments, facebook info and videos!

[Calzum!]

Professor Poo here laying the smackdown.

teeheehee.

 

[Jolteon]

I'm personally against the ledge grab limit, people always try and add little gimmicky rules to fix what they think is a problem.

I thought MK on the edge was proven to be 100% invincible or something? That's the only reason I banned it.

 

[Teran]

I thought MK on the edge was proven to be 100% invincible or something? That's the only reason I banned it.

Not really. Perfect planking is nigh on impossible to perform. Frame wise yes it's possible, but it's probably harder to pull off than powershielding every move in a match.

 

[Tamoo]

If I do it as a non mk char, I think it should be allowed infinitely

 

[Jolteon]

Not really. Perfect planking is nigh on impossible to perform. Frame wise yes it's possible, but it's probably harder to pull off than powershielding every move in a match.

Well that's the only reason I banned it (due to frame invincibility), otherwise I don't think a low risk/high reward situation should be banned.

I also don't really like looking at how easy something is to do when banning it, it's not like humanly impossible is it?

If I do it as a non mk char, I think it should be allowed infinitely

That's the other thing I was planning on doing, but the whole "if you win by stocks/time out" thing does the job I think.

 

[Teran]

That's the other thing I was planning on doing, but the whole "if you win by stocks/time out" thing does the job I think.

The whole point is that it is humanly impossible. You'd have more luck trying to powershield every attack your opponent throws.

 

[Anaky]

A limit of 40 ledge grabs is perfectly fine, this should also apply for all Characters as well, not just Meta.

Also Melee players you dont have a clue about Brawl so your say in the game means nothing, u coulda been doing something else instead of posting up those essays.

Also enter Brawl and get Top3 and i personally will triple your winnings myself.

 

[Kone]

Andy could ya be a gent and bring that copy of melee I borrowed you? want to pass it onto Koop who needs a copy of melee to learn ^^

 

[Teran]

There are people on Smashboards that don't own Melee?

 

[j3ly]

I dont own smash or a cube

 

[C.R.Z]

there needs to be more love between brawl and melee, its getting pathetic arguing

 

[rustediron]

We were having a perfectly good time playing melee, then you d!cks came along and almost ruined our community for a while with that trashy game of yours, sorry for feeling a little bitter about it

 

[C.R.Z]

We were having a perfectly good time playing melee, then you d!cks came along and almost ruined our community for a while with that trashy game of yours, sorry for feeling a little bitter about it

your uneducated in smash, i dont think you should post anymore.

i still find it funny how melee players look down on brawlers.all the other fighting game players lol at melee on a daily basis.

 

[Teran]

there needs to be more love between brawl and melee, its getting pathetic arguing

No need for love, they just need to stfu for once lol.

We were having a perfectly good time playing melee, then you d!cks came along and almost ruined our community for a while with that trashy game of yours, sorry for feeling a little bitter about it

Brawl Community:

Melee Community:

Brawl Community:

Melee Community:

Brawl Community:

Melee Community:

Brawl Community:

And that right there, that's real talk.

 

[Bullet Bill]

there needs to be more love between brawl and melee, its getting pathetic arguing

'getting pathetic' it always has been

 

[Kone]

adam i cud give u both =s

 

[rustediron]

LOOOOOL <3 Teran

But yeah, I was bull****ting outta my ***, figured an Oct 08 joiner wouldn't notice ;D

 

[Yeniths]

If other fighting games LOL at Melee what would they do looking at Brawl lol?


But stop it guys seriously, it's geting silly and just unneeded.

 

[Retroking2000]

thats 100% true ^

all my friends knock melee so bad . they play sf.bb etc

why do melee players need to do it to brawl :/

 

[j3ly]

This is Unreal on j3ly's account :

How the **** can people like brawl better than melee? from the first day i got brawl i thought it was diabolical.

 

[L-J]

Although I'd normally never enter this kind of discussion, the general failure to recognise this particular distinction has been annoying me for a while. The difference is, we (Melee and players) have reasons for knocking Brawl coming from an 'informed perspective' - i.e. one where we have played the previous installment in the series competitively and see the competitive merits of Melee (hence why we play it in the first place). This perspective allows us to make an informed judgement when we play Brawl about its own competitive merits, which the vast majority of Melee players deem to be significantly lacking compared to its predecessor. We are not bashing Brawl for the sake of bashing Brawl or from a position of ignorance.

On the other hand, those people in the general fighting community who look down on Melee invariably come from just such a position of ignorance. They either have only briefly seen it played (whether competitively or in the '4v4 items on' way that the game was presumably originally intended to be played) or, even worse, have tried it themselves and either played against someone who knows what they're doing, got ***** and said 'this is bs, I'm not playing this crappy game, etc, etc', or have only played it in the '4v4 itens on' fashion with others who don't know what they're doing, and come to the reasonable conclusion that 'this game can't possibly have competitive merits', because they have never seen the game played in that light. Often the reasons other fighting communities look down on Melee are frankly laughable: 'It looks so childish with the cartoony graphics and bright colours'; 'Any game that works with a percentage damage system and KOs by falling off the stage can't possibly be taken seriously'. I repeat - this is a position of ignorance.

All in all, the two cases are entirely distinct. Melee players who hate Brawl as a competitive fighting game have, in general, unbiased and informed reasons for doing so. The lack of depth compared to Melee simply cannot be disputed by anyone who has a sound knowledge of both games played at the highest competitive level. You can try, but you will fail. This is not even to say that Brawl is a 'bad' competitive game. Compared to some games it might be considered well above average. However, when up against one of the deepest and skillful competitive games ever produced (no, this is not an exaggeration, and I have played most of the other games that could be considered in or near this catagory to a reasonable standard, hence having an informed opinion) it simply doesn't stand a chance.

This is the last time I will post on this subject - I just had to get that off my chest. I would do the usual admonishing of trolls and flamers in the 'Melee vs Brawl' thing, saying that it does no good and everyone should get along, etc, but ultimately the trolling and flaming will continue as long as people have differences over which they think is the better game. I can only hope that one day every Brawler will give Melee a proper go (and no, this does not include just entering one monthly for a laugh and then never playing it again) and realise that as a competitive game, there really is no contest.

 

[C.R.Z]

Although I'd normally never enter this kind of discussion, the general failure to recognise this particular distinction has been annoying me for a while. The difference is, we (Melee and players) have reasons for knocking Brawl coming from an 'informed perspective' - i.e. one where we have played the previous installment in the series competitively and see the competitive merits of Melee (hence why we play it in the first place). This perspective allows us to make an informed judgement when we play Brawl about its own competitive merits, which the vast majority of Melee players deem to be significantly lacking compared to its predecessor. We are not bashing Brawl for the sake of bashing Brawl or from a position of ignorance.

On the other hand, those people in the general fighting community who look down on Melee invariably come from just such a position of ignorance. They either have only briefly seen it played (whether competitively or in the '4v4 items on' way that the game was presumably originally intended to be played) or, even worse, have tried it themselves and either played against someone who knows what they're doing, got ***** and said 'this is bs, I'm not playing this crappy game, etc, etc', or have only played it in the '4v4 itens on' fashion with others who don't know what they're doing, and come to the reasonable conclusion that 'this game can't possibly have competitive merits', because they have never seen the game played in that light. Often the reasons other fighting communities look down on Melee are frankly laughable: 'It looks so childish with the cartoony graphics and bright colours'; 'Any game that works with a percentage damage system and KOs by falling off the stage can't possibly be taken seriously'. I repeat - this is a position of ignorance.

All in all, the two cases are entirely distinct. Melee players who hate Brawl as a competitive fighting game have, in general, unbiased and informed reasons for doing so. The lack of depth compared to Melee simply cannot be disputed by anyone who has a sound knowledge of both games played at the highest competitive level. You can try, but you will fail. This is not even to say that Brawl is a 'bad' competitive game. Compared to some games it might be considered well above average. However, when up against one of the deepest and skillful competitive games ever produced (no, this is not an exaggeration, and I have played most of the other games that could be considered in or near this catagory to a reasonable standard, hence having an informed opinion) it simply doesn't stand a chance.

This is the last time I will post on this subject - I just had to get that off my chest. I would do the usual admonishing of trolls and flamers in the 'Melee vs Brawl' thing, saying that it does no good and everyone should get along, etc, but ultimately the trolling and flaming will continue as long as people have differences over which they think is the better game. I can only hope that one day every Brawler will give Melee a proper go (and no, this does not include just entering one monthly for a laugh and then never playing it again) and realise that as a competitive game, there really is no contest.

i disagree, alot of melee players think they have a deep understanding of brawl but they dont.they are different games, technically they shouldnt really be compared with each other because both operate differently.other fighing game players have played smash, its not always the case that they are ill informed, they just dont like it. i really dont see why there has to be argumentson the subject in the first place, its completely unecessary. we should just leave knowledge on each game to the players themselves.

what i also dont understand is why wouldnt melee players play brawl for the money once in a while for the money? if its so less technical and easy o play then why would they not just enter and prove everyone wrong? i dont see that happening.

LOOOOOL <3 Teran

But yeah, I was bull****ting outta my ***, figured an Oct 08 joiner wouldn't notice ;D

i dont know you so i didnt know if you were joking or if it was serious :/

 

[X1-12]

what i also dont understand is why wouldnt melee players play brawl for the money once in a while for the money? if its so less technical and easy o play then why would they not just enter and prove everyone wrong? i dont see that happening.

If someone payed me to eat ****, however easy it was, I still wouldn't do it.

 

[Tamoo]

cloudrain: Ok, that's fair enough, there are a lot of melee players out there that make blanket statements about brawl without having really experienced it, or without proper knowledge of it, case in point, professor pro. But that is not true for all melee players. I bet you didn't know I was technically ranked 2nd in london when I first joined the scene, and joined the scene through brawl rather than melee. I have knowledge, or at least had sufficient knowledge at the time of brawl mechanics and kept up to date with it. And yet it was obvious the vast competetive difference there was between brawl and melee. I literally turned up to my first event with equal knowledge of brawl and melee, and placed much higher in my first few events for brawl than i could even dream of attaining in melee. It's things like this that skew the opinions of sooo many players into thinking that competetively, brawl is just not on par with the likes of melee.
I honestly think that if I concentrated all my time into learning brawl, I would have advanced so much further in the brawl community than I currently have in the melee community.
Obviously, I understand that the only person that can give a comprehensive opinion on such a matter is someone that has experienced top level play in both games within the last year or so, and correct me if im wrong but i believe fuzzy prefers melee?

And as tristan said, melee players don't play melee for the money, it's because we believe it's the best god **** game out there, so why would we ever waste our time on brawl. No one's going to debate that we would have to take some time out to learn the game, you can't just pick up and play, but if you are going to debate that the learning curves are anything like that of melee, i would encourage YOU to do the reverse and pick up melee and 'play it for the money' or whatever you like doing with your videogames and 'proving all of us wrong' which as of yet, no brawler has really been able to do, kira came close, but he gave up in the end

 

[Teh-Shlurpie]

cloudrain: Ok, that's fair enough, there are a lot of melee players out there that make blanket statements about brawl without having really experienced it, or without proper knowledge of it, case in point, professor pro. But that is not true for all melee players. I bet you didn't know I was technically ranked 2nd in london when I first joined the scene, and joined the scene through brawl rather than melee. I have knowledge, or at least had sufficient knowledge at the time of brawl mechanics and kept up to date with it. And yet it was obvious the vast competetive difference there was between brawl and melee. I literally turned up to my first event with equal knowledge of brawl and melee, and placed much higher in my first few events for brawl than i could even dream of attaining in melee. It's things like this that skew the opinions of sooo many players into thinking that competetively, brawl is just not on par with the likes of melee.
I honestly think that if I concentrated all my time into learning brawl, I would have advanced so much further in the brawl community than I currently have in the melee community.
Obviously, I understand that the only person that can give a comprehensive opinion on such a matter is someone that has experienced top level play in both games within the last year or so, and correct me if im wrong but i believe fuzzy prefers melee?

And as tristan said, melee players don't play melee for the money, it's because we believe it's the best god **** game out there, so why would we ever waste our time on brawl. No one's going to debate that we would have to take some time out to learn the game, you can't just pick up and play, but if you are going to debate that the learning curves are anything like that of melee, i would encourage YOU to do the reverse and pick up melee and 'play it for the money' or whatever you like doing with your videogames and 'proving all of us wrong' which as of yet, no brawler has really been able to do, kira came close, but he gave up in the end

i dont know any brawl player that would go "melee is easy we would **** you all" where as most melee players think they would get top 3 in brawl in a few weeks

fyi HUGE skill gap between top 3 brawl players and the rest

 

[Tamoo]

Im saying if he thinks it's comparable, put as much time into melée as he has brawl and see where that gets him

only the truly ignorant or truly trolling will say that they can place top three in a couple of weeks in brawl.

Also FYI, same for melée!!!

 

[VA]

It's not a comparison people should even be making. We may as well be comparing SSF4 and Melee. Melee and Brawl are very different.

Player preference is essentially what it comes down to . So let's just leave it at that yah?

 

[Retroking2000]

yeah i agree. isai even prefers 64 over melee its just players preference

but come to think abou it take m2k who takes both games serious how long did it take him to win tourneys in both events

 

[Professor Pro]

I love that I started a flame war here.....AHHHH the workings of Professor Pro causing annoyance and discomfort through the community

And of course it is always down to personal preference, but one game is clearly BETTER (the better word is used in a factual sense, not an opinion) then the other and lulz have to be put into play when people try to argue that one is not

Brawl is terrible and has the same depth of when I was in primary school and played tag with my friends.....Still no brawlers have accomplished the mission of finding an interesting brawl match on youtube....I will stop insulting brawl when I see one, 99.9% of brawlers try not to respond to this claim because they know one does not exist. And why are there even brawl combo videos.....???

Coming to our community and taken up TV's, WOW what a **** game and a true waist of time.......


Edit - Guaranteed in 3/4 months any of the top people in Melee could place higher in brawl then any of the top people in Brawl could place higher in melee.....

Don't even say that this is an opinion cos it's a fact. And why is this....COS BRAWL IS **** AND TAKES LESS SKILL!!!!

 

[VA]

^^ this is an example of a time when brawlers should not rise to the bait. just be confident in what you like, do you really care what prof thinks about it?

I know I do...

 

[Professor Pro]

^^ this is an example of a time when brawlers should not rise to the bait. just be confident in what you like, do you really care what prof thinks about it?

I know I do...

You care what I think about

But why isn't Young Robby Sir that no brawler can provide an interest video of brawl and always make up excuses to prevent showing one.....

 

[rustediron]

Im saying if he thinks it's comparable, put as much time into melée as he has brawl and see where that gets him

only the truly ignorant or truly trolling will say that they can place top three in a couple of weeks in brawl.

Also FYI, same for melée!!!

Mêlée.

It's not a comparison people should even be making. We may as well be comparing SSF4 and Melee. Melee and Brawl are very different.

Player preference is essentially what it comes down to . So let's just leave it at that yah?

This is clearly an over-exaggeration. Mêlée and Brawl are clearly share far more characteristics than with something like SF4, Tekken or BB.

Player preference is quite obviously what it would come down to when choosing between the games, what other factor could there possibly be? :S
What we are disputing here, is that the Brawl players' preferences are misguided, and that they're rubbish people who shouldn't be playing videogames.

I'd say the most basic way to distinguish between the 3 smash games is the punishment that can be dealt off of a combo starter, with SSB64 allowing the most punishment, and Brawl the least. Both ends of the spectrum results in very boring play: if you can punish too hard, then players are reluctant to allow any openings that could lead to very heavy damage; if the level of punishment is not very much, then the game is eternally stuck in a neutral phase where neither side has an advantage.

I don't really know what the SSB64 metagame is like, but I don't think punishment is so harsh that the game is particularly defensive overall. The Brawl metagame has, as far as I can tell, developed over who can get the hits during the neutral phase where neither side has the advantage - very defensive play, it seems to me.

Defensive play, of course, is widely regarded as noobish; it reduces the need for the tech skill required to pull off heavily damaging combos (as forces much of the game to be played in the neutral phase), and prolongs the game to unnecessary lengths. Even in other genres this is the case: in RTS, turtling your base with defensive structures without ever attacking is a noobtell; in FPS, camping in a corner, or on a roof, waiting for people to come to you is considered bad manners and noobish behaviour.

Essentially, Brawl players prefer brawl because it promotes more noobish behaviour.

 

[X1-12]

just melee son

read the game box/disc

 

[Tamoo]

iphone auto correct, cba to correct it

melée forever

 

[Jolteon]

Mêlée.


This is clearly an over-exaggeration. Mêlée and Brawl are clearly share far more characteristics than with something like SF4, Tekken or BB.

Player preference is quite obviously what it would come down to when choosing between the games, what other factor could there possibly be? :S
What we are disputing here, is that the Brawl players' preferences are misguided, and that they're rubbish people who shouldn't be playing videogames.

I'd say the most basic way to distinguish between the 3 smash games is the punishment that can be dealt off of a combo starter, with SSB64 allowing the most punishment, and Brawl the least. Both ends of the spectrum results in very boring play: if you can punish too hard, then players are reluctant to allow any openings that could lead to very heavy damage; if the level of punishment is not very much, then the game is eternally stuck in a neutral phase where neither side has an advantage.

I don't really know what the SSB64 metagame is like, but I don't think punishment is so harsh that the game is particularly defensive overall. The Brawl metagame has, as far as I can tell, developed over who can get the hits during the neutral phase where neither side has the advantage - very defensive play, it seems to me.

Defensive play, of course, is widely regarded as noobish; it reduces the need for the tech skill required to pull off heavily damaging combos (as forces much of the game to be played in the neutral phase), and prolongs the game to unnecessary lengths. Even in other genres this is the case: in RTS, turtling your base with defensive structures without ever attacking is a noobtell; in FPS, camping in a corner, or on a roof, waiting for people to come to you is considered bad manners and noobish behaviour.

Essentially, Brawl players prefer brawl because it promotes more noobish behaviour.

no, high level melee is about as campy as brawl is (some matchups exempt I guess), the only big difference between the 3 games are the defensive options and punishment, but it doesn't actually make any game anymore campy than the other when you look at sayings such as "don't get hit".

also the last paragraph sounds really scrubbish, what's classified as "unnecesasary lengths"? if your actions provide you from not getting hit then they are 100% necessary. why is camping/turtling considered nooby? as far as I know it's a very valid strat in most FPS games which makes it quite the opposite.

 

[j3ly]

tl:tb - tooooooo boring to read this trawl

hey whats good? top 5 for upcomming melee and brawl:

melee:
fuzzyness
prof
edwin/VA (if they come)
me/tamoo/TC
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 - gantz
99th - lust

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x1-12








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brawl:
moot
moot
moot
moot
moot

 

[Jolteon]

lol if I have to play tamoo I won't end up 5th most likely ^o^

i still have no jiggs exp

/e loool at the lust's position

 

[j3ly]

super camper vs super camper who will win the final battle? o_O

you know charles seeding preferences though, most likely i will end up playing both of you. i dont think we are in the same side of the bracket though so my prediction is

me vs tamoo winner = a
you vs gantz/equivalent winner = b

a+b = losers finals

unless edwin or VA come along and **** it all up :s

 

[Tamoo]

you do realise im using low tiers this tournament

yeah my placing sounds about right

I love hugo's anti brawl posts, they're so true whilst mixing in some intentional trolling to keep the brawlers all riled up ^^

 

[rustediron]

no, high level melee is about as campy as brawl is (some matchups exempt I guess), the only big difference between the 3 games are the defensive options and punishment, but it doesn't actually make any game anymore campy than the other when you look at sayings such as "don't get hit".

also the last paragraph sounds really scrubbish, what's classified as "unnecesasary lengths"? if your actions provide you from not getting hit then they are 100% necessary. why is camping/turtling considered nooby? as far as I know it's a very valid strat in most FPS games which makes it quite the opposite.

SRSLY? I'll admit that a lot of my post is just bull**** (I know jack all about ssb64, brawl or fps games), but I do feel that Brawl tends towards more get-a-single-hit-in-if-you-can-but-otherwise-try-to-avoid-being-hit-lol play, whereas campy melee play tends towards trying to manouvre you're opponent into allowing you to get that hit which will get you a high return.

Unnecessary lengths = 3 stock 8 mins lol