Smash is the hardest game there is?

[ike_love]

I meant in the metagame. You can do a bunch of crazy frame-perfect things in Melee, but you won't see them very often in tournaments (with Smash DI being a possible exception). Most fighting games, such as VF or SF, have several near-frame-perfect techniques that are consistently pulled off in tournament matches.

This may be true, but you have to realize that these guys have been playing for almost three decades, and melee has only been around since '01.

 

[ike_love]

I don't really feel like finding who first made this point, but I think it's a good one.

The skill gap from pros to new people who are willing to play melee is REALLY huge compared to the pros and new people who are willing to play (I'm not gonna pick up a game I know I suck at. Smash gives newbs the illusion that they're good) most other fighters, simply because it's an extremely accessible game. I tend not to like traditional fighting games, (though from posts in this topic alone I might have to give Guilty Gear a shot. Sounds deep and fun. I know I'll suck though) because I can not memorize all the attacks and such. But people who enjoy those sorts of games and have been playing them for a while can pick up that sort of stuff rather quickly. (Ignoring all technical things. I'm talking movesets alone. I know all fighting games are different. But I think if you can learn an 87 button attack in one game, you're bound to be able to do it in another. Even with this qualification people are gonna yell at me, but please don't. I trust you when you say your fighting game is harder than melee.)

The blessing and problem with the smash series is it tries to appeal to everyone. Other fighting games say, "You don't like fighting games? Screw you pal. I'm loaded will all kinds of juicy movesets and advanced things, and if you don't want to learn, don't buy me." Smash gives you 14 attacks to learn for each character.

I think the fact that a newb (or even non gamer) will pick up and play smash and generally won't touch those other fighting games says a lot about the learning curve. (or maybe something about it's appeal and awesome marketibility of memorable characters.)

I think it's the same with Halo (a tad off topic, I know, but it's been brought up before.) Halo is a very accessible FPS. That's another genre I tend not to like, but I will play Halo.

Yeah I didn't realize that all those 2-d fighting games had "87 button combos." But I'm sure you know more about all those games than all the people that actually play them. I've been playing street fighter alone for over ten years and i'm still nowhere near competition level. Anyway since you know so much about it I'll be looking for your next strategy book, maybe that'll help my game.

 

[Aesir]

I don't really feel like finding who first made this point, but I think it's a good one.

The skill gap from pros to new people who are willing to play melee is REALLY huge compared to the pros and new people who are willing to play (I'm not gonna pick up a game I know I suck at. Smash gives newbs the illusion that they're good) most other fighters, simply because it's an extremely accessible game. I tend not to like traditional fighting games, (though from posts in this topic alone I might have to give Guilty Gear a shot. Sounds deep and fun. I know I'll suck though) because I can not memorize all the attacks and such. But people who enjoy those sorts of games and have been playing them for a while can pick up that sort of stuff rather quickly. (Ignoring all technical things. I'm talking movesets alone. I know all fighting games are different. But I think if you can learn an 87 button attack in one game, you're bound to be able to do it in another. Even with this qualification people are gonna yell at me, but please don't. I trust you when you say your fighting game is harder than melee.)

Keep in mind my whole post isn't directed at you.

Saying which is harder is silly, theres loads of **** you have to learn in smash. aside from the technical aspect you have understand whats going on in the match and make good decisions based off that. I can't believe someone made a shot at the technical aspect its just to ****ing silly, theres more to smash tech then wavedashing and l canceling. If you don't know that you shouldn't be arguing this.

If you want my honest opinion on which has more depth? I would say "I don't know" simply because I don't play 3s only other fighter I played was Sc2. But I've watched enough 3s strike to see it requires a high amount of dedication to play, I'm not going to deny that. it just seems to me when it comes to game depth they're just to close to call.

The blessing and problem with the smash series is it tries to appeal to everyone. Other fighting games say, "You don't like fighting games? Screw you pal. I'm loaded will all kinds of juicy movesets and advanced things, and if you don't want to learn, don't buy me." Smash gives you 14 attacks to learn for each character.

You couldn't be more wrong smash appeals to the nintendo fanbase more then anything else, also 14 move sets? wtf? Theres more then 14 you also have to take into account the versatility in which most of these moves can be applied.

I think the fact that a newb (or even non gamer) will pick up and play smash and generally won't touch those other fighting games says a lot about the learning curve. (or maybe something about it's appeal and awesome marketibility of memorable characters.)

It has nothing to do with the learning curve.

I think it's the same with Halo (a tad off topic, I know, but it's been brought up before.) Halo is a very accessible FPS. That's another genre I tend not to like, but I will play Halo.

its accessibility WoW is a pretty generic MMO yet people say its amazing, you know why?
its marketed very well and isn't a bad game.

truth be told if you market a good game well, people will think its amazing.

 

[Emblem Lord]

New rule.

Only Big Rick, Perfect Hero, pdk, KevinM and myself are allowed to talk about other fighters and compare them to smash.

Seems like every few weeks all of us read a thread where we have to educate people on this forum about how they don't know **** about other fighters and how smash isn't the deepest.

I would say something, but the others covered it nicely.

Also GG Accent Core is coming to America. Hotness

GG > all other fighters. It's got depth, fairly balanced, wide array of characters, many many options.

Edit: Luigi Ka-master was good in this thread. Good arguments. Gotta give him props.

4sho. Stop posting. Forever.

It's too good. VF is awesome too.

 

[Aesir]

^ I'm going to agree with that.

you could include LK he plays melty blood >_>

 

[Xanderous]

Smash, hard? Not really.

 

[BigRick]

Mostly every1 that has played multiple 2d fighters agree the GG is the hardest game out there... It's not like we said Smash is easy, we just said that it's not the hardest.

Also, going by Ka-Master's extreme definition of ''good''... nobody is good in Melee and another 2D game, they're waaaay too different. It seems like you are simply trying to avoid a debate by saying this.

And you don't have to be ''good'' (by Ka-Master's extreme standards) to have a grasp on what the game is about.

 

[red stone]

ok, someone tell me the game that has the most button presses per second (on average) that game is the hardest because you are under constant pressure to perform like that.

 

[Kop]

ok, someone tell me the game that has the most button presses per second (on average) that game is the hardest because you are under constant pressure to perform like that.

Errr.... Starcraft? A lot of pros average anywhere from 250-400 actions per minute...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtuA5we0RZU <---- Harder than smash.

 

[Aesir]

^ Except for the fact that its basically power shielding. lol

 

[Perfect Hero]

parfect hero man, does BEST SELLER is someting for u? man, there are a lot of fihgting games, and maybe ur oppinion is that this isnt the hardest one, u know what, thers no hardest one, thers NONE !!, u ccan practice for a year in maravel game and for a year in this game with the same entusiasm and u will get to the same point *******, and not for you, but for the most of the people this is the best fighting game now, BEST SELLER? u know how to read?

Best seller doesn't mean anything. I already told you why Smash is such a great game, because it is accessible and has enough depth for competition for years.

Woooooooooow, you really really need to learn...period. "To get good at smash"? Is there some official level titled, "Good", after you've played the game for a certain amount of hours? Is that at the point where you can L-cancel and wavedash consistantly or something? Yup, that's the end. That's where it all stops. Once you've got those things down, you gain the right to say, "there's nothing left for me to learn. I am good."

Please don't avoid the real question by spouting off more unneed stuff.

Let me rephrase so you can answer me directly then.

How long does it take(in smash) to get to competition level?
A. Some people could do it within a few months, some would take years.

Now compare that to other fighters.

. . .That's right. I'm guessing you don't know anything about other fighters.

Smash has been out for what, around 6 years? Not to mention smash 64. I'd easily attest that people who have played smash 64 and then from there started playing Melee competetively will have a stronger understanding of the game than those who didn't play 64 smash.

Of course people who have been playing for the beginning will have a better knowledge. That is obvious. Look at ST, most of the top players have been playing for over decades. Some of them are in their 30's right now.

But why is time even being brought up as an argument for a game that's been out for only 6 years? I could argue that by sheer potential and desire alone, someone who's played the game for only 2 years could get better than someone who's played for all 6. It's possible for a game that's only been out for so long. And not because the person who's played for 6 stopped progressing after year 2.

Don't avoid teh question.

I'd consider "good" to be at the level where one can consistantly place first and second at relatively well-attended tournaments. Now, going by what you said, and using what my definition of good is, shouldn't there be more than a handful of players that win tournaments consistantly?

Consistently placing first/second/third means you are a top player, far pass a good player.

Once again, I feel like I'm trying to educate you on terms and **** and it is getting annoying.

The problem lies with your definition of good, which you failed at mentioning multiple times.

The REAL problem is that you probably don't play other fighters.

A good analogy of what I can say about most at Smashboards is this.

I ONLY play 4 in a row. Therefore it is THE HARDEST game. -Smashboards

Then.

Chess is harder, it has more viable options, more strategies, etc. -Well educated people at Smashboards.

Again, it depends on how GOOD you want to be. Take M2king for example, I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say he knows an incredulous amount of information, even moreso than that of some pros who play other FGs. And where has this information gotten M2king? Arguably best smasher in US? That's pretty good for me. So, in theory, one could say that smash takes an imense amount of information.

Do you not get the point? It doesn't matter how much mew2king knows. I'm asking you to compare it to other fighters.

Do you know that during a combo(in VF), you HAVE TO LOOK AT FOOT STANCE. You need A LOT of knowledge to even play VF/GG at an "average" player level. Compare it to Smash and you see the difference right away.

There's the dictionary's definition of mindgames. I'm pretty sure the applicable meaning could be specifically interpreted in a million different ways. Just because you're using some definition that's probably common among a few FG communities, it doesn't mean it's the correct definition.

Pretty contradictory dont you think? kthxbye.

I'm not even going to answer your dumb other questions about execution and offensive options or w/e, because I believe that those definately aren't the sole depth enhancers of fighting games. Which I'd say goes along with my argument of why only pros should debate this. Because they're the only ones that have gone deep enough into a game to get past the "offensive options and execution" argument.

Sure. Believe what adds depth.

Just to detract from the flame wars, I'm going to suggest another game that I would say is more "difficult" to master simply because of how many more "advanced techniques" and counter-ploys to every option that there are:

Guilty Gear XX.

I'm not quite at a competitive level with GG yet, but it seems that the learning curve stays steeper longer than what I've seen with competitive smash.

However, I enjoy Smash far more, go figure.

Smart guy. This is exactly what I've been saying. Just because smash isn't the most deep/technically advance/hardest game, doesn't mean it isn't an enjoyable one.

I wouldn't say smash is the hardest game. Its like any other fighting game, only it doesn't have life bar. If anything, that would make it easier, right ? Its not like you have to worry about getting hit and dieing, unless your playing stamina mode or something. If you ask me, i would say MvC2 is the hardest fighting game, because magneto is just to good, and who doesn't use magneto. I tried getting into it recently, and after a couple of minutes, my *** was on a silver platter, being handed to me. I'm also a bit suprised no one mentioned DOA. Pretty much everything is counterable !

Doa is a pretty good game, just really random. So is 3s go figure.

It... is quite a hard game. I can't really say for sure since I haven't gotten really in depth with Melee. I hope to with Brawl.

But I have played Tekken, Dead or Alive, or other games like Warcraft, and Halo 2. I'd have to say.. fighting games are harder than first person shooters. But not RTS.

Smash has a different feel than other fighting games, It has easier/simple controls. But there is actually a lot to put into them. Combos aren't simply a memorized button combination, but that and timing and predicting if they will DI or which way they will to change it into a different combo. And the moves you use to finish your opponents and recover from the sides instead of just getting up and continuing the fight.

Smash is different and fun.

Yeah I didn't realize that all those 2-d fighting games had "87 button combos." But I'm sure you know more about all those games than all the people that actually play them. I've been playing street fighter alone for over ten years and i'm still nowhere near competition level. Anyway since you know so much about it I'll be looking for your next strategy book, maybe that'll help my game.

Yep Steet Fighter is pretty hard to get to a really good level. Now try it with Guilty Gear.

New rule.

Only Big Rick, Perfect Hero, pdk, KevinM and myself are allowed to talk about other fighters and compare them to smash.

Seems like every few weeks all of us read a thread where we have to educate people on this forum about how they don't know **** about other fighters and how smash isn't the deepest.

I would say something, but the others covered it nicely.

Also GG Accent Core is coming to America. Hotness

GG > all other fighters. It's got depth, fairly balanced, wide array of characters, many many options.

Edit: Luigi Ka-master was good in this thread. Good arguments. Gotta give him props.

4sho. Stop posting. Forever.

It's too good. VF is awesome too.

Hotness indeed.

Heh. GG IS balanced.

Mostly every1 that has played multiple 2d fighters agree the GG is the hardest game out there... It's not like we said Smash is easy, we just said that it's not the hardest.

Also, going by Ka-Master's extreme definition of ''good''... nobody is good in Melee and another 2D game, they're waaaay too different. It seems like you are simply trying to avoid a debate by saying this.

And you don't have to be ''good'' (by Ka-Master's extreme standards) to have a grasp on what the game is about.

I'd agree GG is the hardest of the 2d fighters while VF is the hardest of the 3d fighters.

I'd have to put Smash in the 2-d catergory though.

^RTS is usually really hard to play. Props to the koreans.

 

[MookieRah]

yeah, starcraft is nuts. Can't wait for the sequel though!

 

[DippnDots]

Are there forums for GG? I've always wanted to become bad *** with Sol Badguy. I don't care if he sucks like Roy, I like teh phire.

 

[Perfect Hero]

GG is balanced, pick any character and you can do well as long you are good.

http://meltybread.com/ -melty blood forum

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/ -GG forums

http://shoryuken.com/ -Mainly a 2d/Capcom site

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm -Virtua Fighter forum

http://doacentral.com/forum/index.php -Doa forum

http://tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/index.php -Tekken

Forums I go to, except Tekken lol. . .

 

[DippnDots]

Lulz...Tekken, I always liked being the doctor and driving around like a car in 3.

Thanks, and I'm not really any good, my brother and I played it for fun. I know some sweet Eddie combos, but they probably wouldn't work against anyone who can block.

And to add more gasoline to the flame, hardest fighting game ever is the new DBZ game for the Wii.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Please don't avoid the real question by spouting off more unneed stuff.

...How about you don't sound like a hypocrite, and actually read my answer.

Oh, and yeah, of course I've played other fighting games. GGX (to a nearly competitive level), MvC2, yada yada yada. I just stopped playing them because I found smash to be way too awesome and unique.

There's the dictionary's definition of mindgames. I'm pretty sure the applicable meaning could be specifically interpreted in a million different ways. Just because you're using some definition that's probably common among a few FG communities, it doesn't mean it's the correct definition.

Pretty contradictory dont you think? kthxbye.

You're really dense. Good work. It's not contradictory. I'm arguing that there isn't some specific, universal definition of mindgames, that only people who religiously play the FGs that you so oftenly talk about know.

And no, broad definition of mindgame is your definition. I know what mindgames are. If you are unclear. Play OTHER ******* GOOD FIGHTING GAMES

See, here's where my point ***** yours. I already stated at this point that mindgames could be interpreted in many different ways. You're the one that's saying there is some definition of the word that applies to everything.

How long does it take(in smash) to get to competition level?
A. Some people could do it within a few months, some would take years.

Exactly why time ISN'T a legitimate comparison with smash. Because it's only been out for 6 years. The time frame to get "good" isn't long enough to coincide with the amount of players who play competetively, so obviously it's not going to take as long to get to the "competitive point" or whatever you want to call it. Which I guess means that you can at least take last place at a local tournament or something.

And of course there are examples of players like...oh say Ken, who obviously kept improving throughout all 6 years, and managed to stay at the top.

Do you know that during a combo(in VF), you HAVE TO LOOK AT FOOT STANCE. You need A LOT of knowledge to even play VF/GG at an "average" player level. Compare it to Smash and you see the difference right away.

Hmm, sounds something like IASA cancelling. Something you've probably never even considered to be used in smash. (Or, not to sound rude, but probably 2/3 of the amatuer smashers out there have not considered)


The thing is, as I said, the competition is relatively easy to get into, because the game has only been out for 6 years, and because there are still so many people getting into it.

Now, since the PROS are obviously most knowledgable about the game, they're the only ones who can represent it best when comparing it to other games.

The top level of play is the only legitamate thing to be considered when comparing smash to other games, because the average competition...doesn't know a lot. That's why they're average.

 

[Perfect Hero]

...How about you don't sound like a hypocrite, and actually read my answer.

Where is your answer? All I see is you going off topic. I told you to compare it and YOU HAVEN'T.

Let me repeat.

YOU HAVEN'T.

You're really dense. Good work. It's not contradictory. I'm arguing that there isn't some specific, universal definition of mindgames, that only people who religiously play the FGs that you so oftenly talk about know.p

And I told you. . .my specific definition of mindgame is yomi. AND GUESS WHAT? I USED THAT DEFINITION TO PROVE MY POINT.

You are just trying to get around it.

See, here's where my point ***** yours. I already stated at this point that mindgames could be interpreted in many different ways. You're the one that's saying there is some definition of the word that applies to everything.

Actually. It doesn't **** me. It only does if YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED ANY OTHER GOOD FIGHTING GAMES.

Exactly why time ISN'T a legitimate comparison with smash. Because it's only been out for 6 years. The time frame to get "good" isn't long enough to coincide with the amount of players who play competetively, so obviously it's not going to take as long to get to the "competitive point" or whatever you want to call it. Which I guess means that you can at least take last place at a local tournament or something.

God****. Do you always miss the point or no? As someone said earlier which I agreed with by the way. The learning curve is MUCH STEEPER in other fighting games then in Smash. I don't see how you can argue that point.

Guess what? That ALSO coincides with why I think smash is such a good game. But of course you always miss the point.

And of course there are examples of players like...oh say Ken, who obviously kept improving throughout all 6 years, and managed to stay at the top.

Why do you keep going off topic? I told you to compare it to others. You haven't. Simple.

Hmm, sounds something like IASA cancelling. Something you've probably never even considered to be used in smash. (Or, not to sound rude, but probably 2/3 of the amatuer smashers out there have not considered)


The thing is, as I said, the competition is relatively easy to get into, because the game has only been out for 6 years, and because there are still so many people getting into it.

Uh. . .so you think the competition is going to be harder to get into after this year? Brawl is coming out. The competition WILL ALWAYS BE EASY TO GET INTO. Get that past your head.

Now, since the PROS are obviously most knowledgable about the game, they're the only ones who can represent it best when comparing it to other games.

It is funny, you ignore all my posts/points and come up with more things you think is right.

Why should I listen to "PROS" that only play one game? Shouldn't I be listening to people WHO PLAYS BOTH GAMES AND COMPARE.

The top level of play is the only legitamate thing to be considered when comparing smash to other games, because the average competition...doesn't know a lot. That's why they're average.

Lol. I already told you. To become good. Top is way past good.

To become good in GG/VF, you HAVE TO KNOW ALOT. No. To become "average", you have to know ALOT OF INFORMATION.

In smash to become good/average whatever, you don't need as much effort to get to that level. THUS EASIER. Get the point yet?

Oh, and yeah, of course I've played other fighting games. GGX (to a nearly competitive level), MvC2, yada yada yada. I just stopped playing them because I found smash to be way too awesome and unique.

I was going to ignore this because it is such a blatant lie, but since you insisted to repeat it using it as an answer I'll have to call you on it.

GG DOES NOT HAVE A SCENE IN US. GG/VF although great games HAVE HORRIBLE SCENES IN THE US. The great scenes are in Japan which you are not in. So, you are telling me you were competitive in a BROKEN game with almost no scene. SURE BUDDY.

If you played MvC2, then you wouldn't be spouting off such garbage. Can you ROM?

 

[Knifey McStab]

what, GG is broken?

 

[Perfect Hero]

GGX is broken.

Mostly every1 that has played multiple 2d fighters agree the GG is the hardest game out there... It's not like we said Smash is easy, we just said that it's not the hardest.

Also, going by Ka-Master's extreme definition of ''good''... nobody is good in Melee and another 2D game, they're waaaay too different. It seems like you are simply trying to avoid a debate by saying this.

And you don't have to be ''good'' (by Ka-Master's extreme standards) to have a grasp on what the game is about.

I'll have to quote this post again. Too good.

 

[peachori]

it seems to me like some people are just defending smash as being the hardest because its their favorite...which doesnt really make sense. i dont think anyone came into this thread with the mentality that they're going to show all of us smashers we're scrubs...i mean if they've been a part of swf for a bit then i think its reasonable to infer that they like smash.

anyway. i have played some 3s (didnt really like it) and some vf (meh, okay) and i dont think its reasonable to say smash is the hardest. i think smash has a very friendly learning curve, and lots of charm. and it is by far the most enjoyable for me..but i think the knowledge required to play some of the other games at an equivalently competitive level as smash is greater. i dont think that sentence makes any sense, haha.

i've always kind of thought of games like gg to be like chess, where it takes some time to learn and get used to. and smash is kind of like reversi, it doesnt really take long to get the hang of how you play. both are ****ing intense at moderate to high levels of play.

 

[greenblob]

Exactly why time ISN'T a legitimate comparison with smash. Because it's only been out for 6 years. The time frame to get "good" isn't long enough to coincide with the amount of players who play competetively, so obviously it's not going to take as long to get to the "competitive point" or whatever you want to call it. Which I guess means that you can at least take last place at a local tournament or something.

Well, in competitive games, the challenge is only as great as your opponent. It's true that Smash is relatively young, and because of that, as it stands right now Smash isn't as difficult.

And right now, I'm determining difficulty by the "skill level" of the top players.

 

[Drumma_Boi]

Besides the fact that all fighting games have the element of who has really good muscle memory to have repetative tech skill there is also the element of prediction and mindgames.

MvC2 doesn't have that many mind games...... besides..... spam my best prioritized moves until you get one hit and in theory once you get one hit you should win with all the guard breaks and life comboes. WD is just lp+fp then down..... not hard.....

SF3 is not that complicated of a tech skill game you have 3 basic joystick movements fireball motions, dragon punch motions, and HCF/B followed by the button of choice..... not that much of n e thing special there. WD here is double tap foward..... easy......

GG and VF know nothing about and SC2 I don't know enough to discuss for that game. Also, sence no one brought up tekken.... that is a very easy technical game to play alot of approach and reapproach poking and mindgames.

Smash has a very unique with its Lcanceling and very nice WD and a variant on that with wavelands...... even pros still mess these up in high level matches.

IMO there is no other game that hasnt been brought close to its limit entirely besides smash. Silent Wolf knows whats up. XD

Also, whoever is trying to talk about one player mode for this debate on what game is hardest to learn and play didn't understand the question. Once you learn the basics of the game's high level play computer A.I. really doesn't stand much of a chance. That being said smash has one of the easiest one player modes ever. I think this is for the younger crowd tho.

 

[Blunted_object10]

Perfect Dark: WHO PLAYS OTHER FIGHTING GAMES BESIDES SSBM?

 

[Psychoace]

Perfect Dark: WHO PLAYS OTHER FIGHTING GAMES BESIDES SSBM?

QFT

Trough the wall sniping before any other fps ever thought about it.

 

[Knifey McStab]

smash is easy. any single move you do is easy. wavedash is a piece of cake. l-canceling is just pressing l before hitting the ground. ffing, easy stuff. crouch canceling just pressing down. yeah, you could learn any single one of these things is less than half an hour. swd for samus is hard though.

anyways, other fighting games have stuff like parries, and counters, and super attacks. plus other fighters require you to remember more than a button and direction to do it. other fighters also have way more moves for you to look out for. in melee, you basically know all your opponent's options in terms of aerials and frontal ground attacks. in another fighter, their options are much more vast. it's harder to read what sort of attack they can use next

 

[Perfect Hero]

smash is easy. any single move you do is easy. wavedash is a piece of cake. l-canceling is just pressing l before hitting the ground. ffing, easy stuff. crouch canceling just pressing down. yeah, you could learn any single one of these things is less than half an hour. swd for samus is hard though.

anyways, other fighting games have stuff like parries, and counters, and super attacks. plus other fighters require you to remember more than a button and direction to do it. other fighters also have way more moves for you to look out for. in melee, you basically know all your opponent's options in terms of aerials and frontal ground attacks. in another fighter, their options are much more vast. it's harder to read what sort of attack they can use next

. . .?

1111111

 

[Aesir]

^@knifey: Funny when did you start winning major tourneys? lol..

anyway unless anyone here has experience in other fighting games your opinion is just inaccurate.

smash has loads of technical stuff in it, I find it weird most of you are just listing WD and LC when theres more to smash then just those two techs way more.

I think what many people don't realize is they're not saying smash is easy its easier then other fighters liek 3s. Does that mean smash lacks depth? I don't believe so does it lack depth compared to other fighters? thats for the unbiased to decide.

 

[gnosis]

How frame-perfect are things like waveshining, pillaring, shine combos, pivoting, SHDL, etc. anyway? I always thought that there were around 10 frames of leniency for those techniques.

And aren't things like roll-canceling (SF2) 1-3 frames?

All these things are so different in frame requirements that they're not really comparable.

Some techniques have 1 frame windows, like pivoting, others I can't really give you specific windows because it's too broad of a term, like shine combos.

The thing with Smash is is that a lot of techniques require you to move the joystick both very fast but very gently/a specific amount/etc. So speed and timing isn't the only requirement; finesse and accuracy of movement is necessary too. Like pivoting utilts for example.

Not that that isn't present in other games, just giving Smash credit where credit is due.

 

[Blunted_object10]

Woah Wait A Second.... Theres Other Fighting Games?!?!?!?:o:o:o

 

[Eggz]

Smash is easy, I play with my feet sometimes. Unless M2K posts, I won't be convinced otherwise.

 

[Blunted_object10]

what the Heck is an L Cancelling? and those other things u said? Knifey Mcstab?

 

[boss8]

smash is easy. any single move you do is easy. wavedash is a piece of cake. l-canceling is just pressing l before hitting the ground. ffing, easy stuff. crouch canceling just pressing down. yeah, you could learn any single one of these things is less than half an hour. swd for samus is hard though.

anyways, other fighting games have stuff like parries, and counters, and super attacks. plus other fighters require you to remember more than a button and direction to do it. other fighters also have way more moves for you to look out for. in melee, you basically know all your opponent's options in terms of aerials and frontal ground attacks. in another fighter, their options are much more vast. it's harder to read what sort of attack they can use next

smash is easy go fight isai and tell me this game is easy then i will belive you.

 

[Winston]

I find it hilarious that both Ka-Master and Perfect Hero say this to each other repeatedly:

"You're a total moron. YOU DON'T READ MY ANSWERS WHICH ARE OBVIOUSLY RIGHT."

*quotes post again*
*types same response again*

Internet debates are impossible.

 

[Knifey McStab]

give me a week to brush up on my skillz and i'll go face this isai or whoever and whup him to prove a point to you.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Here we go again

God****. Do you always miss the point or no? As someone said earlier which I agreed with by the way. The learning curve is MUCH STEEPER in other fighting games then in Smash. I don't see how you can argue that point.

Guess what? That ALSO coincides with why I think smash is such a good game. But of course you always miss the point.


Why do you keep going off topic? I told you to compare it to others. You haven't. Simple.

Let's see here, MAYBE the reason I nearly never directly answer your questions, is because the things that I post almost always make your questions obsolete and irrelevant. You just seem to lack the most basic of common-sense to realize it.

Comparing the time it takes to get good at smash, with other FGs, is pointless because they're two entirely different situations.

Smash is relatively new, the other games aren't. Until smash has been around for at least as long as any of the other FGs you've mentioned, the time argument continues to be ********.

Uh. . .so you think the competition is going to be harder to get into after this year? Brawl is coming out. The competition WILL ALWAYS BE EASY TO GET INTO. Get that past your head.

Wow, excellent observation. "Once a sequel has been released for this amazing game that has only been out for 6 years, the competition for the prequel will not continue to advance much further..."

Well yeah Einstein, unless Brawl is garbage, just about all pros are going to discontinue playing Melee. That generally weakens the competition in a game.

I will go ahead though and predict that the competition for Brawl is going to be much more difficult than that of Melee. Because the ideal Brawl will be an extension of Melee, and will already actually have some pros in it during its first years.

It is funny, you ignore all my posts/points and come up with more things you think is right.

Why should I listen to "PROS" that only play one game? Shouldn't I be listening to people WHO PLAYS BOTH GAMES AND COMPARE.

Not if the person who plays both games has a lesser knowledge of one than the other. Because that would be biased.

According to you, it seems everything is already known about the other FGs, so the game has gotten to a point where I guess it doesn't matter whether you're pro or average, everything that there is to know about playing has already been discovered.

That ISN'T the case with smash. Due to how new the game is, the current pros are the only ones who actually know everything there is to consider when playing. The game hasn't been out long enough for the knowledge to be common.

So, unless you're pro at smash, and average at the other FGs, (which I guess entails that you know every single thing there is to know about the games, which I also guess is plausible for a game that's been out for 50 years or w/e) then the debate is flawed.

And just for the record, I've only been arguing that smash isn't the easy game you make it out to be, and that you can't label it easier than the other fighters with the knowledge you have of it. Regardless of your knowledge of those other fighters.

To become good in GG/VF, you HAVE TO KNOW ALOT. No. To become "average", you have to know ALOT OF INFORMATION.

In smash to become good/average whatever, you don't need as much effort to get to that level. THUS EASIER. Get the point yet?

Smash is relatively new, the other games aren't. Until smash has been around for at least as long as any of the other FGs you've mentioned, the time argument continues to be ********.

The information required to be good/average is obviously dependant on the time that the game has been released.

Well, in competitive games, the challenge is only as great as your opponent. It's true that Smash is relatively young, and because of that, as it stands right now Smash isn't as difficult.

Thank you greenblob.

I was going to ignore this because it is such a blatant lie, but since you insisted to repeat it using it as an answer I'll have to call you on it.

GG DOES NOT HAVE A SCENE IN US. GG/VF although great games HAVE HORRIBLE SCENES IN THE US. The great scenes are in Japan which you are not in. So, you are telling me you were competitive in a BROKEN game with almost no scene. SURE BUDDY.

Lol, here comes some more of that density in your skull. You just keep flaunting it.

Oh, and yeah, of course I've played other fighting games. GGX (to a NEARLY competitive level), MvC2, yada yada yada. I just stopped playing them because I found smash to be way too awesome and unique.

Nearly. As in, "almost to the point of being". Whether the scene was terrible or not doesn't matter. In fact, if I can even recall, that's probably the reason why I never bothered getting actually competitive with that game.

I liked seeing how long you had been waiting to jump on me for saying anything about other FGs like that though, LOL.

 

[Che_Lab]

I believe Odin Sphere would be the hardest game there is. Dunno if this is fighting genre specific, but that game is pretty ****ing hard.

 

[boss8]

give me a week to brush up on my skillz and i'll go face this isai or whoever and whup him to prove a point to you.

ok if you beat isai in a set i will give you $999,999,999,999

but i highly dought u can.hell i can probly **** you myself(no homo) you probly don't even play smash.but what is there to argue about i already no u can't beat me or him so yea.as eighteenspikes would say............TAKE IT AND GET OUT!!!

 

[Knifey McStab]

you think i'm on this board for fun?

 

[boss8]

doesn't matter if you post on swf doesn't show skill,show me a vid of you playing at a uberpro level then i will be convinced.

 

[Blunted_object10]

ok if you beat isai in a set i will give you $999,999,999,999

but i highly dought u can.hell i can probly **** you myself(no homo) you probly don't even play smash.but what is there to argue about i already no u can't beat me or him so yea.as eighteenspikes would say............TAKE IT AND GET OUT!!!

$3000 Money Match whenever i see u