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Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

justaway12

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Ehh on the status effects, okay then =)

Alakazam himself can't Embargo Mario, since to my knowledge he doesn't have like lock-on.

Also, he take out his stop watch almost instantly, just about the same time, if not earlier than it takes Red to take out his Pokemon.

I guess every Pokemon there is going to have focus sash due to showstopper and earth tremour.

Also about Mario not reaching Red due to Repel, Repel doesn't actually work like that, it decreases wild encouters if your pokemons level is lower than wild pokemon, which means people can approach Red.
 

JOE!

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silly question at this point, but why were individual pokes considered as fighters here when Pkmn trainer can apparently have ALL of them, even mewtwo?
 

REL38

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silly question at this point, but why were individual pokes considered as fighters here when Pkmn trainer can apparently have ALL of them, even mewtwo?
Cuz Pikachu, Lucario, Mewtwo, Pichu and Jiggs are individual characters in Smash

It's just that they're a bit worse off than Red's Pokemon by going solo


@match

Seems to me that Mario needs that quick hit kill to Red to win
 

JOE!

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can peple be caught by pokeballs?

it seems that objects OTHER than pokemon can be stored in them...why not people?
 

JOE!

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I is half asleep and probably shouldnt be online....

but it is a valid question, no?

Why can only pokemon be stroed in pokeballs? Why not other organisms?
 

_clinton

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Chances are for the same reason as to why you can't capture another trainer's pokemon.

Oh and as far as limits go for the Pokemon trainer, I don't see him commanding anymore than 2 pokemon out on the field at one time, so him sending 6 total on a character isn't going to happen IMO.

You can rationalize it all you want, but the glaring evidence that Red looks exactly like he does in Brawl proves otherwise
And I’m saying it doesn’t matter at all if they look alike, Red’s design is a major symbol for the series (again, based off the guy who made pokemon when he was a kid himself), so of course they are going to use that, he is one of the strongest parts to the series. My point is it doesn’t matter if it is him 100% because they say “PT” for the name, because they are for a part talking about the symbol that they character has when selecting him. Funny bit of info though about a thing like this, it can be “both things” for a subject like this one in case this thread didn’t know that. However, this thread would never do that for a subject...

We should be talking about pretty much the full variety of pokemon out there for him to use in order to represent his “symbol” as a whole that he is suppose to be (you know as in the “Pokemon Trainer” part of that), and not just a limited number of them which is what some people in this thread are saying and what I really am in disagreement about in the 1st place when it comes to this area (because I just noticed some people might not have got what I'm trying to say).

If they actually used Red for the name at the character select, then that would mean that they did in fact limit what would be talked about just now. After all, canon wise Red has a team you fight at the end of GSC/remake and PS2 games:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red_(game)#HeartGold_and_SoulSilver
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red_(game)#Pok.C3.A9mon_Stadium_2

And like I said before, if you guys are really going to be off about the thing and thinking the stuff should be exact like shown in SSBB, than why is he using more than 3 pokemon that aren't Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard?

Unlike Pikachu, humans are different in appearance
Actually, there are several form differences as well for pokemon besides just gender (which is the most common):
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Form_differences

Such as big examples from this stuff:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Spinda_(Pokémon)
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Unown_(Pokémon)

Oh and to explain why differences in looks are to the point where they don’t look so different, I suggest you look at humans as well:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lass
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Youngster

You have to like how every young boy and girl pokemon trainer looks the same according to their art now as well huh. Do you think they are the same little boy and girl trainer each time? Or are you aware that making a lot of realistic differences for close to about 500+ and going up still in number pokemon is going to take a lot of time and energy and a lot of memory space on a game card as well?

It's pretty much the same idea with various areas in the Mario games, EB, or pokemon as well, places like Fourside are scaled down I mean just look at it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzd1czfHczM
You can tell how what I mean right?

I just find it very silly how you're trying to rationalize every little thing lol
I’m pretty sure I’m not trying to rationalize every little thing, otherwise I would have stayed in another topic that is trying to do that.

Nintendo dislikes guns soooo

Pokemon is the obvious alternative
obv.
No, I’m pretty sure Nintendo has no issues with guns at all, as you can see in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0mYSFPoCU&playnext_from=TL&videos=_IQx4LbbGkg
Look at the guns on that thing. Just look at them.

Oh and they have no issues with this as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzfg0aBE19Y&playnext_from=TL&videos=h004BCy0pdE

loooooool
I like how you lol at this, so please tell me again why Ness can fight foes physically with a baseball bat when they are flying and have projectiles as a weapon?

I draw that Mario has amazing agility (one of the few characters that examplifies it at such a degree), but not that impressive "mph speed"
I like how Mario showing that he is super in pretty much everything in general for his games so far (super strength, super durability, his title being “super” ^_^) would magically mean he doesn’t have some form of super speed as well despite using star power to travel around the universe and having full control over himself at those speeds. BTW, the upgrade for FLUDD that lets Mario run on water really isn’t much faster than what he can already move at in SMS (well, it is almost 2x faster I guess).

Personally I still want to know why Mario avoiding cannon fire from things like heat seeking bullet bills which are designed to fly through the air well isn’t an example of both super speed and super agility.

I also think this thread still doesn’t notice just how much ground Mario is traveling through again when it comes to the games, so on top of my Super Mario World stuff and all that other stuff I've shown before. I’d also like to point out things like how you should check out what the 2nd area of where you go to in Super Mario Galaxy 2 is and what they just happen to be from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZraNj5idCPQ&feature=related
(if you go beyond 16 seconds and don’t notice what it is than you should look again)

Granted Mario is using a space ship to help in a good chunk of the traveling between them, but it is clear based off the levels that Mario is going through various large areas once again.

I would fail to see why FLUDD be disallowed
It talks and is a power-up, for all intensive purposes
It also shows that it has a personality of its own that is clearly different from Mario’s, as in it is the simple fact that FLUDD shows that it has artificial intelligence. Which IMO that would link it to leading Mario some outside help in a match.

Stuff like the umbrella Peach uses in SPP (Perry) shouldn’t be allowed because it is clearly a separate character from her and IMO that would give Peach outside help which is against the rules of the thread. I also don’t see why Link should be allowed to use a certain horse, a being of twilight, or a certain fairy’s special powers as well.

In case you can’t tell, FLUDD is hardly the only thing I have issue with; granted FLUDD is different than those other things I talked about. I guess this is an odd issue, because I’m pretty sure there are plenty of other machines like FLUDD that we have to talk about.

Something like the Poltergust 3000 wouldn’t bug me because that machine at least doesn’t show it is a separate character, FLUDD does.

The power to travel across the universe...is called the Warp Pipe. Which everyone can use.
Mario’s canon has actually talked about this subject; they clearly say that the Mushroom Kingdom and other areas such as the Bean Kingdom are connected by pipes; that system is clearly different than what a warp pipe or other forms of teleporting that Mario has.

The stuff in the SMG games is different as well, and I’m also sure that certain pipes like the “escape pipe” or items like the “magic whistle” from SMB3 are different from just the normal pipe system that you brought up; Star Road from various games such as SMW for starters is a different system as well, and how about that, it is linked to the “stars” again.

The launch star might be more like the power of the Luma then it is Mario.
Ok, I know that the Luma are shape shifters who can if they want pretty much become anything because of what they are, you can even see them become power ups for Mario (such as the Red Star that allows flight in SMG1). So, with that info are you going to say that Mario shouldn’t be allowed his power ups as well? I don’t see how only becoming one of the many fuel sources that allows Mario’s power would be a bad thing that still wouldn’t link the power to be his.

After all, what makes you think Mario has unlimited potential energy now huh?

I mean they aren’t the only things that become energy for Mario to use. After all, there are clearly foes in SMG (such as the bosses in the 1st place) and other Mario games being made with that Star Power. Yet Mario certainly has no issue taking them out and using the energy they were using, because they certainly can make power ups besides a launch star for Mario as well in case you needed to know. Just saying plenty of foes after being beat make things as well a good % of the time, so how is that not just Mario making the surrounding energy into that? He clearly has control over himself when he is flying to other planets in case you need a reminder about that.

Mario, Bowser, Peach, Luigi, even Wario and a certain Yoshi in some cases certainly have them under their control in case you can’t tell that. The Toads in SMG aren’t able to use the power because in case you forgot, they have to have space ships they fly around in these games instead.

Oh, and there are even sources of energy that Mario has use for allowing him flight/super jumps/power ups that aren’t linked to the Luma or foes, as you you don’t see them become the item/energy. So, how is that not just Mario using his star power there in those spots because they would be the safest spots/best spots for them? Check out this boss fight for example to see Mario using a mini launch star in this (avoid the level part of course, just go to the boss):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FkI2zmLBz0&feature=related

How was that not just him using his power naturally in that video, you don’t see any other reason for that to be there, there isn’t a Luma helping Mario and becoming the energy, and no foes were KOed for that as well.

If Mario was to throw star bits at Kirby, he would most likely eat them. He would probably like the taste.
How does this work? You are aware Mario can fling more than one right? I don't see how Kirby is going to suck up a lot of them being thrown in a row at him.

What makes you think his shape shifting abilities is not instantaneous?
Maybe because he has to swallow something 1st before he puts on the power, which includes switching from powers, that is clearly not done in an instant in games like KSS for the DS which shows him storing his powers/items away in his belly.

Forget Sunshine, recently in the last two Mario games Bowser had a shiny switch that pretty much said "hit this to defeat Bowser" (twice in the same fight), then in Galaxy 2 he gives you the ammo to use against him in every single battle with him. It's like he just wants to get his tail handed to himself.
NSMB and NSMBW is about Mario returning to his roots, just sort of like how Mario vs. DK has a bunch of old things in it.

I don’t see how Galaxy 2 having Mario hit huge chunks of rock back at Bowser’s face while running about his man-made planet is Bowser’s fault. You can clearly see in the background that this area might just have some side effects based off where you are fighting but if you don’t get my point about how the battlefield might just have a ton of random flying stuff around it then how is “he giving” the rocks to you during the final showdown when he is trying to suck Mario into a “black hole?”

Mario: Pure hearts! Woohoo! (If they even work)
Ganon: I wish for the pure hearts.
Ganon: I wish for my invincibility back.
Ganon: I wish for Mario's invincibility to be null and void.
/end
So, Ganondorf can steal god power now? Why hasn’t he just wished for the other two parts of the triforce then?

Also, I doubt Mario is so fast that Bowser couldn't wish for invincibility before Mario attacks.
I’m going to point out right now that chances are the Pure Hearts, and the Power Stars are all more powerful than the Star Rod if you actually look closer at what they have done per game.

The Pure Hearts for one thing are a container for the “God power” item the Chaos Heart, as in they can seal most of the power it has away. The Power Stars are pretty much a form of the Star Rod in that they can get you anything but they happen to contain far more power overall.

After all, the power stars and the energy connected to them have remade the universe; in fact the Story for SMG2 is pretty much just a retelling of SMG1’s story in a way. Now, I’m not sure on this but I’m thinking that things like the Crystal Stars have just as much or perhaps more power than the Star Rod, after all the specials that the Crystal Stars give Mario happen to actually be a lot more powerful than anything the Elder Stars do in the 1st PM for one thing.
 

payasofobia

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Ehh on the status effects, okay then =)

Alakazam himself can't Embargo Mario, since to my knowledge he doesn't have like lock-on.

Also, he take out his stop watch almost instantly, just about the same time, if not earlier than it takes Red to take out his Pokemon.

I guess every Pokemon there is going to have focus sash due to showstopper and earth tremour.

Also about Mario not reaching Red due to Repel, Repel doesn't actually work like that, it decreases wild encouters if your pokemons level is lower than wild pokemon, which means people can approach Red.

Then make the Porygon I mentioned earlier have lock on and embargo instead.

As for the issue with stopwatch: Lum berry. It cures any and all status effects. Have Red summon Mewtwo ONLY, have it be inmobilized, Lum berry acts on it's own and then have Mewtwo use Safeguard. After that, Red can summon his other pokes without issues.

As for the issue with Red, berries have been shown in many sources to work in humans as well as Pokemons. Give him a Lum berry for Stopwatch and give him a sixth pokemon who uses Dive to go underwater with Red on it's back. Only attacks that can hit him when they are underwater are surf and whirlpool, and Mario doesn't have any similar abilities.
 

Diddy Kong

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So now wishing to win is back again for Bowser, while before we all agreed that he shouldn't get the Star Rod and we're basing his abilities mostly around Bowser's Inside Story. This thread is honestly getting confusing, and the rules for match ups depend on whos discussing.
 

Ganonsburg

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When did we say Bowser didn't get the Star Rod?

Also, it doesn't matter if Mario has Life Mushrooms to bring him back, because we set as a rule that once you're down, that's it. This applies to things like fairies reviving Link, Ganon coming back to life (like he always does), and so on.

:034:
 

justaway12

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Then make the Porygon I mentioned earlier have lock on and embargo instead.

As for the issue with stopwatch: Lum berry. It cures any and all status effects. Have Red summon Mewtwo ONLY, have it be inmobilized, Lum berry acts on it's own and then have Mewtwo use Safeguard. After that, Red can summon his other pokes without issues.

As for the issue with Red, berries have been shown in many sources to work in humans as well as Pokemons. Give him a Lum berry for Stopwatch and give him a sixth pokemon who uses Dive to go underwater with Red on it's back. Only attacks that can hit him when they are underwater are surf and whirlpool, and Mario doesn't have any similar abilities.

The problem is, if no pokemon have sturdy or focus sash they get OHKO'd, if they do have focus sash they get immobilized and besides, unless I missed or forgot part of your argument, it doesn't stop defence plus since none of your pokemon now have the sonic boom since Magnemite is gone.

When have berries been shown to work on humans?

EDIT: Forgot about that, not like it matters that much, Mario can still attack Red before he sends out a pokemon, not to mention Mario can wear his stone cap to hide from Sonic boom.
 

warpd

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A few things that are consistent with Mario is that he can not breath in space. In both galaxy games he relies on the Luma inside him for the power to travel through space. Bowser summons those asteroids to hit Mario, they do not appear any other time.
 

payasofobia

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The anime. There, Brock himself cooked berries and gave them to Ash once when he was paralized. It worked and cured him. Just watch "A Lonely Snover".


But I found something much better: the entire action of switching out and summoning a Pokemon has a priority that is superior to all but the move pursuit. And just summoning a Pokemon counts as a Free action. It has a priority of +6.

Then I found something better than Lum Berry:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Magic_Coat_(move)

Magic Coat reflects any status ailments back at the guy who sent them.

So Red sends all of his Pokes. Then he orders Mewtwo to use Safeguard, Porygon to use Magic Coat, Cleffable to use Follow Me which has a priority of +3, Magneton to use Lock On, a Buizel with max speed EVs to use Dive with Red and, just in case Mario is faster than Magneton, anothe Porygon to use Trick Room.



And then it is a matter of Flowcharting:

A)Mario uses Stopwatch:

1)Mirror Coat reflects it. It does not hit Mario.

2) Lock On, Trick Room and Safeguard in effect.

3) Magneton attacks first and Mario dies.


B)Mario uses Earth Tremor or Ultra Jump:

1) Noone dies thanks to Focus Sash. Red is diving.

2) Lock On, Safeguard and Trick Room in effect.

3) Buizel and Red attack last thanks to Trick Room, so Mario can't attack them yet. Magneton Sonic Booms Mario.



C) Mario uses Power Bounce AKA "the only attack that can override Focus Sash":

1)He is forced to attack Cleffable. Cleffable dies.

2) Trick Room, Safeguard and Lock On in effect.

3) Magneton Sonic Booms Mario first on the next turn thanks to Trick Room.



D) Mario uses Showstopper:

1) Focus Sash saves everyone. Magneton receives no damage at all thanks to ability. Red is diving safely on water thanks to speedy Buizel.

2) Trick Room, Lock on and Safeguard in effect.

3) Buizel and Red attack last thanks to Trick Room, so Mario can't attack them yet. Magneton Sonic Booms Mario.
 

justaway12

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Anime does not count as canon.

Well, the first thing wrong with that flowchart is that Mario can just attack Red before he can send out his pokemon or he could just not do anything, and use his stone hat to protect him the first turn.

He can also Superguard and stop the attack from Magnemite.

What about Multibounce? It jumps on all enemies in the turn consecutivly, which would also include Red.
 

ElPanandero

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I agree with Pays on all but one count. I don' feel dive should have the ability to be used anywhere...but I suppose it can canonically do so, so meh.

I vote Red.
 

Diddy Kong

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Red does have more options obviously but the thing remains that he can easily be killed even before he sends out his Pokemon.

Otherwise, the Trainer easily destroys Mario. And most other characters even including Samus imo.
 

JOE!

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Now hold on.

is red limited by "turn" mechanics as with pokemon? As even though mario was in the PM game, 90% of the time his fights are in real time...

souldnt that give him an edge canonically?
 

ElPanandero

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Red does have more options obviously but the thing remains that he can easily be killed even before he sends out his Pokemon.

Otherwise, the Trainer easily destroys Mario. And most other characters even including Samus imo.
Well if we use HeartGold/SoulSilver/Black/White, Red can have a pokemon out on the field with him at the start of a fight (the pokemon that follows you). He could release and command a second pokemon quickly. The first one could be Clefairy who would use follow me in the first instance of combat. The second could be any number of others since Red would have a substantial amoun of time to release the pokemon in Pay's scenario.
 

JOE!

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er...again, how is the "turn based combat" gonna be weighted here when mario can fight in real-time?
 

ElPanandero

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They fight as if it were real-time. Red walks in with his pokemon and uses the necessary moves to survive while throwing out more pokeballs and expanding his number of pokemon on the field. The Turn bases combat is dismissed as game mechanic.
 

justaway12

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Not really, Red sending out his Pokemon and command them, would take much more time than Mario just using his stop watch, he has that out almost instantly, also Red commanding everyone of his pokemon is going to take a bit of time, if Mario really wanted to he can just ultra jump on Red since that hits everybody on the feild.

He doesn't really have that many options either, only Sonic Boom + Lock-on, which Mario can just defend by using his Stone cap or super guard the sonic boom, after his Sonic boom doesn't hit, all of his Pokemon have no way of actually hitting and hurting Mario.

I don't know where people are getting that he has a lot of options in this match =S
 

REL38

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@Clinton

Regardless of being a "symbol" for the series or not, he's clearly the same character in his games and Brawl when it's pretty dang straight obvious and set from the get-go

Pokemon usage is immense due to the fact that the player controls them
The player can catch whatever they want thusly over-riding the HG/SS Pokemon he uses in the Trainer Battle
According to the game, the player can have an all Magikarp team and we could even consider that a usable team here

RL people look different and are more pronounced with different looks than that of animals
Applying to Pokemon due to the fact that Pokemon all share little to no differences aside from those that use different sprites for certain exceptions (shiny, castform, unnown, etc.)
From what I've seen, the only differences found in Pikachu are gender differences and being shiny
Yeeeaah


From what I've finding, you assume these types of fights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeuNzqpXT7w&feature=PlayList&p=BCEB8D15EF3CF94E&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=2


Translate into these sort of fights in real time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X63oUC1_1rM

I find that hard to believe just cuz they're able to "bash" a flying object


In regards to Mario's speed, he really isn't covering crazy amounts of distance in a short amount of time
Going to Bianca Hills and making it to the windmill in less than a minute isn't all that impressive when it's a small town to begin with
I'll admit, he's got the speed beating that of olympic athlete sprinters, but other than that he's not all that fast when compared to a lot of other characters

For sidenotes; only you assume Bullet Bills are going at the speed of sound, FLUDD is an accessory for all intensive purposes, FLUDD allows Mario to go the fastest he's ever gone on foot and the Luma always shoot Mario to a designated spot


@Just

Apparently, according to Black/White, Trainer's can command up to 3 Pokemon at a time
 

justaway12

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I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying he can't in time for Mario to attack, even if he can, Mario can still attack Red when his pokemon are out.
Despite Focus sash not really killing any of his pokemon, he can still attack Red directly.
He can just use Rock candy, Ultra jump or whatever ~
 

REL38

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I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying he can't in time for Mario to attack, even if he can, Mario can still attack Red when his pokemon are out.
Despite Focus sash not really killing any of his pokemon, he can still attack Red directly.
He can just use Rock candy, Ultra jump or whatever ~
From what Payas is saying, I'm doubting Mario winning

So unless he can score a quick hit on Red, he's got far too much on his plate

What I'm thinking, Mario can Rock Candy, as you said, to quick kill Red
Even if Red starts with Clafairy or Alakazam, Rock Candy hits everyone as it isn't a directed attack and I'm of the belief that if an item is being used before or while Embargo is being used, then the move goes out anyways

Better yet, use a starbit to paralyze Red (maybe kill him?)
The Pokemon wouldn't know what to do and then go for Rock Candy
 

justaway12

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Yeah, that was my plan =)

Embargo can't be used, Embargo isn't an instant hit so the badges would make it miss and seeing as Magnetzone can't use Embargo, no body can hit.

I don't belive Mario has that much on his plate, TBH, if he can stone cap or super guard the Sonic Boom nothing can really hit him, but that's beside the point seeing as Mario can just attack Red directly.
 

payasofobia

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Anime does not count as canon.

Well, the first thing wrong with that flowchart is that Mario can just attack Red before he can send out his pokemon or he could just not do anything, and use his stone hat to protect him the first turn.

He can also Superguard and stop the attack from Magnemite.

What about Multibounce? It jumps on all enemies in the turn consecutivly, which would also include Red.

It seems you ignored my first part where I said that the act of summoning Pokemons have the highest priority in the entire game. And just the act of summoning them counts as a free action. Think of it as Mario when choosing which attack he will use, or just entering the battle. It is a sacred rule of RPG battles to wait out for the opponent to act.


Stone Hat counts as a status effect:

http://www.mariowiki.com/Stone_(status)


Quake hammer and Ultra Jump rules also apply to Multibounce: they hit everyone except Red and Buizel because, by the time Mario attacks, they should be already underwater where they can only be hit by Surf and Whirpools.




But I found and easier way to deal with him:

4 Gengars with full EVs in speed stat use Curse at the same time. It can't be avoided or healed because it does not count as a status effect. Mario dies next turn. Red, meanwhile, uses a Porygon with Trick Room and a Buizel with Dive to protect himself.




Now, if we are not going with turn based system, then, in many sources, it has been shown that Pokemons can be summoned, ordered and attack as soon as they leave their pokeballs in one quick string of actions that take less than three seconds to do.

But for the sake of convenience, let's say Red already had a Pokemon out like in Heart Gold.

Then it is just a matter of said pokemon using protect right in front of Red to protect him while he summons the Gengars. Then they proceed to phase out of reality (a state that Mario can't counter) and use curse without issues.
 

PowerBomb

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Actually, Pursuit has the highest priority in the game when used on a switching Pokemon.

EDIT: Doesn't Mario have a quick, effective, and strong AoE attack that he can immediately use? One that wouldn't care about Embargo or Lock-On or any of that stuff?
 

_clinton

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Rock Candy is all that you can think of?

Shooting Star, Super Nova, Art Attack, pretty much any item based thing as well.
 

REL38

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Rock Candy is all that you can think of?

Shooting Star, Super Nova, Art Attack, pretty much any item based thing as well.
I'm counting the start-up lag it takes since Shooting Star has Mario take about 2-3 seconds to use

Super Nova and Art Attack require the player to do the work, so meh
Ignoring the player control still has the attacks taking a bit of time
 

justaway12

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@Payas: Pursuit has the highest priority, as PowerBomb said, the thing is, this does not play out like an RPG in this case and Mario can attack whenever he wants to.
Ultra guard does not count as a status effect, nothing is stopping him from doing that, if Red and Buizel are underwater, then Mario can just ultra guard, but that wouldn't matter since Rock candy can attack before Red even sends his Pokemon.

Mario has rock candy, if he uses it instantly, Red would die.
 

_clinton

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I really want to know why a pokemon couldn't protect Red from one a group attack again.
 

_clinton

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But he has been shown to have his pokemon out on the map with him.

Then make the Porygon I mentioned earlier have lock on and embargo instead.
I find it funny how much embargo is relied on in this thread, you are aware that it doesn’t work on offensive based items in the game right? As in offensive based moves such as a pokemon using their item to throw it right? Plus if it is a held item, I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen embargo stop them huh?

Really, most of Mario’s special items are offensive or held in general, in fact they work off a “magic point” system in M&L for example (A fire flower takes like such and such “bro points” to use in case you don’t get my point).

Really embargo limiting certain characters to the point where someone like Link is left at hand to hand combat and is just going to have to bend over and kiss his *** goodbye is just silly and from actually looking at pokemon right, you should be clearly able to see that embargo isn’t some magic super move.

A few things that are consistent with Mario is that he can not breath in space.
Yeah, and it can be argued that the Luma is only allowing Mario to breath in space because Mario isn’t “Batman” if you get my point (who for some reason can sometimes breath in space), not allowing him to use star power. Mario has been using a form of star power sense the 1st Super Mario brothers game, and you can really see what they do in SM64 and just how much power he has over in that as well.

Bowser summons those asteroids to hit Mario, they do not appear any other time.
Ah no, again the final fight with Bowser in that game is him trying to suck Mario into a black hole and he doesn’t summon them at all, chances are Mario has just as much control over those asteroids as “Bowser does,” because in case you can’t tell based off the star bits in the games, Mario can pull star energy to him, and those asteroids are clearly some sort of star energy.

But I found something much better: the entire action of switching out and summoning a Pokemon has a priority that is superior to all but the move pursuit. And just summoning a Pokemon counts as a Free action.
The entire action of switching out and summoning a new pokemon is not equal to a free turn; the pokemon you switch back in is fully open to whatever your foe was planning to do that turn with the other pokemon. Which if a trainer is good can be dealt with most of the time, but a bad switch can clearly cost a trainer who isn’t in the little league anymore, which is where the free switch that you speak of is at anyway.

Play at the Battle Tower or use the player vs. player option in the games, that is when the easy mode (as in letting you switch out freely) is taken off in pokemon and it is where the real competitive pokemon battles actually starts in game and off game. The point the early game as with you is to allow training. Note the “gym” part of where you go to in the first place? They also stop free item use stuff as well, but we aren’t talking about this.

Regardless of being a "symbol" for the series or not, he's clearly the same character in his games and Brawl when it's pretty dang straight obvious and set from the get-go
One has to wonder why only the trainer has this treatment, I mean it is clear that any of these characters is a symbol, but Red is like the only one where they say “Pokemon Trainer” instead of “Red,” why don’t they do that for any other character? F-Zero champion, M2 Kid, FE Lord, lol.

RL people look different and are more pronounced with different looks than that of animals
I think I’ll post some pictures now:




That small number of cats there isn’t even the start of how many there are.

From what I've seen, the only differences found in Pikachu are gender differences and being shiny
Yeeeaah
You are aware that it may just because of a limit of space and time right? Pokemon hasn’t done what some survival horrors games have done with their characters (in that these days no single Zombie will look the same).

Oh and I’m also pretty sure that pokemon size isn’t set in stone as well, considering how in some areas you can find a guy that measures a certain pokemon like a Magikarp to see how big it is, oh and then there are things like this:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Route_222#Pok.C3.A9mon_Size_Contest

From what I've finding, you assume these types of fights

Translate into these sort of fights in real time

I find that hard to believe just cuz they're able to "bash" a flying object
Oh ok then, what type of fights do you think they are?

I hardly see them as flat out “DBZ fights” just because I can logically see that Ness, Paula, and Poo have clearly shown that they have control over the TK part of their PK powers which should let them have some sort of flight, or how logically both Ness and Poo have been shown to use a super speed teleport easily and a warp teleport has been shown as well with characters such as Poo.

Another fun fact is that levitation TK has been shown in EB with characters like Poo just from the start of the game when you are about to enter a name for the guy if you just watch what he does, and you can see him using levitation TK when he is in mediation at the character selection screen.

Oh and when Ness was a baby he was showing off an ability to move objects with just the TK part of his power as well, and with him using stuff like life up, healing, or a shield that shows that he can target his body with his powers and not have much of an issue with the control.

In regards to Mario's speed, he really isn't covering crazy amounts of distance in a short amount of time
You say that, but the facts disagree with you, any speed run of SM64 certainly has shown that already, the fact that you can logically see a world map showing what amount of land Mario covers such as SMW’s disagrees with you, SMG disagrees with you considering how Mario is searching the universe itself twice over (when it is remade at the end of SMG1) for power stars.

****, you can get an A rank on Super Metroid if Samus can explore Zebes in under 3 hours, well Mario is exploring the Universe in his stuff. Personally I want to know why this thread is ok with Samus having super speed outside of the speed booster just based off how she has been cited as covering large amounts of land w/o it as well by certain users in this thread, but this thread isn’t ok with Mario pretty much doing the same thing and then even more for his skills.

Going to Bianca Hills and making it to the windmill in less than a minute isn't all that impressive when it's a small town to begin with
Right, it is just taking up a large chunk of the island, at least as much as that theme part is. Plus calling it a small town doesn’t do it justice when stat wise it is pretty much out in the country if you catch my point (larger amounts of land per person really).

For sidenotes; only you assume Bullet Bills are going at the speed of sound, FLUDD is an accessory for all intensive purposes, FLUDD allows Mario to go the fastest he's ever gone on foot and the Luma always shoot Mario to a designated spot
I’m assuming bullet bills are fast because they are shaped for direct control in the air (as in they aren’t cannonballs in case you can’t tell that, they are designed to fly well in this case) and are being fired from things like super giant robot cannons (such as the 2nd time you meet Bowser Jr. in SMG2 and he fights you in a giant robot that fires them off at you).

FLUDD fires off enough water to allow a full grown man to hover in the air for a pretty darn good amount of time, there is clearly a lot of force being put into that water’s firing rate (which is another thing, Mario can handle that). If Mario was not in control over himself when running with one of FLUDD’s accessories such as the super speed one, it wouldn’t be safe for Mario to use that in the 1st place. I mean just attach yourself to a car with a rope or something and have someone drive off and you try to keep up with them if you don’t get my point.

Oh and again, the Turbo Nozzle isn’t even going that much faster than what Mario has been shown to do in other games, again Mario with his better movement options in SMS dealing with him bouncing around on his belly goes pretty fast. The only thing I’ve seen it allow Mario to do that he can’t do already is climb up certain walls, which certainly is on the list of powers Mario has been seen to do before.

Plus it is also pretty clear that Mario isn’t even running as fast as he can go most of the time such as in SMS, because when Mario or Luigi feel like huffing it they stretch their arms out as seen in SMB3, SMW, SMG, SMG2 (when under the effect of a Rainbow Star in SMGs cases). Plus you can even see some better examples of aerial control when they are going faster as well (such as more “ninja” flips when jumping anyway). I’ve seen them climb walls and the like under this, and I’ve seen them travel across various liquids as well. Samus can’t even dart across water when in the effects of the speed booster, but to be fair I’m aware that Samus chances are weighs more than Mario and Luigi with the suit on.

The Luma are not the ones who are in control and the reason why Mario can do his quest for those games, Mario has been in control of and using Star power sense his 1st game but it really shows up in SM64.

Oh and to talk about the Star Rod some more in general I’d like to point out just what is known about the Elder Stars. The star spirits in the first game gain power from the wishes of the denizens of Mushroom Kingdom just to let you know. This is most clear in the final boss fight, you can see that the young star spirit Twink gains enough power from Peach's wishes to beat up Bowser's sidekick and help Mario win it.

Oh and again, a trainer has been seen only having 3 pokemon out on the field at a time, and based off how much faster double matches can be compared to single matches and you can even hurt yourself in them. So, I’d say that it is safe to say that just commanding two pokemon at the same time can be a chore. So thinking that the trainer can have as many pokemon out on the field at a time is really a pretty bad idea if you ask me, it could go sour on him even if he can do it.
 

JOE!

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clinton, you idiot, lrn2human biology:

IN THEIR BREEDS, animals are very rarely very distinguishable from each other.

but from person to person people can pick up on the TINIEST of changes in a face in a heartbeat...

there is really no escape from two people looking the same due to how humans are designed to instantly recognize faces of each other
 
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