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Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

Crystanium

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Metaknight fought the strongest warrior in the universe and won.
Oh, you should not have said that. Meta Knight fought the strongest warrior in the Kirby Universe. This says nothing of the other universes out there. The characters on this list are considered to be the strongest in their own respective universes. Mario beat a stronger opponent than him. His name is Bowser. Ness defeated a stronger opponent than him. His name is Giygas. Samus defeated a stronger opponent than herself. Her name was Dark Samus.

Metaknight can summon Galaxia's Darkness as shown in The Amazing Mirror and wipe out Snake before he realizes what hit him. Lastly, Metaknight has no neck for Snake to break.
What is Galaxia Darkness? Why does Snake have to break necks only?

Metaknight wins.
Hold on.

That is, if Snake coould even hope to infiltrate the Halberd. And if we begin the match with the Halberd already flying, then it is impossible for Snake to get inside.
Now you're getting somewhere.
 

REL38

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Laughing while sayin' "idunno" with heav
Has Solid Snake ever used a Metal Gear?

The only weapon I can think of that can even dent the Halberd would be his Railgun
But even that ain't much

Snake has Stealth Camo that makes him pretty much invisible so infiltration isn't too farfetched
Slip by the defences unseen


But facing Metaknight is the toughest part
MK can teleport on will, slash quickly with agility on his side
But Stealth Camo makes him invisible as a whole
He could take that opportunity to set up a weapon to OHKO MK
But if he's seen then I kinda doubt he can win
 

Lord Viper

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If Snake did infiltrate...Bomb vest for the draw :p
Then Meta Knight get's off the ship because Snake seems to forget Dimensional Cape. =P

Since Meta Knight's too fast for Snake, (look at Kirby Super Star Ultra cut scenes and gameplay), I can't think of Snake winning.
 

WhatIsRaizen?

Smash Ace
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Here's the next MU.

Vs.


Win = +1. Loss = -1. Draw = no change.

Current Match-Up:
THE HERO OF WIND Vs. THE POKEMON TRAINER

Toon Link Vs. Pokemon Trainer

:toonlink: vs. :pt:

Round 6, Match 7.
 

payasofobia

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At the end of SFA they put the broken planet back together, so they are the real deal as far as world ****ing power goes.


So? Does that mean that their fighting capabilities are on the same level as Ashunera's?

Building planets and fighting are two very different things, and judging someone's power based on one aspect of them seems pretty silly.



Am I the only one who sees that it is silly to compare two things that do two different things to each other to try and disprove someone’s argument when my argument in the 1st place is that they are two different things in “name only for the most part” that still do the same thing.


Examples, anyone? And, like I said, they are not the same thing and didfferent in name only. Think about it.

It's siple logic. Just because two things are similar in one aspect does not make them identical in every other way.

I'll put it simple for you.






Both of these are coloured red. Does that mean that they are identical? No. One is a circle, the other a square.

The Krazoa can build and rebuild planets. Doesn't mean the guys are identical or have the same power level.


Scale’s Army was:
A. Given help from Andross because canon wise his spirit was behind the stuff, oh and as far as clubs and swords, they also had jet bikes and machines powered by the same stuff Fox’s stuff uses, in fact it was their new technology that they got access to “somehow” that allowed them to ****ing cause all of the game’s issues.
B. The Dinos speak just fine actually; it’s just that they have their own language and Fox (not them for some parts as Tricky shows when you meet him for the 1st time) just doesn’t know the language they speak which is why he has a translator on him for the start of the game. Personally I like the idea that the series actually took into consideration that there might be more than one universal language in it.
C. They didn’t beat the gods, they disturbed their resting place that they were there for a million years or something like that and unleashed Andross there, who was a strong enough psychic to the point where he was alive somehow still. That is what caused the spirits to end up leaving the area and being hidden by the opposing side of Scales because if used wrong their power could **** things up.


Actually, their technology was not given by Andross. They built it temselves. All Andross did was doing abso****ingnothing till the end were he pulled an asspull of epic proportions in a game that wasn't even about Star Fox at first.

But given that, I will admit that they did have good technology and they are not as stupid as I thought.

Second: all of the dinosaurs can speak just fine and they all have ther own language. I know that pretty well. But the Sharp Claws? They communicate entirely on grunts and never speak in the game. Only General Scales communicates properlyBut they are still intelligent so that's just a meaningless detail.

Third, they did beat the gods.

Defeat: To win victory over.

Defeat =! kill.

They may not have killed the gods, but they pretty much destroyed everything they created, messed with their shrines and drove them away. And the Krazoa were powerless to stop them. And if the Sharp Claws would have felt like it, they could have dominated all of the Krazoa spirits and used them for their own ends. And they wouldn't have done anything to stop it.




Really the only difference it seems between the two beings is that Ike’s god has had a more hands on approach with her creations where as the Krazoa spirits just want to “sleep as they do their job” because of the condition that the planet they made is in anyway because of a great calamity that ****ed it up.


Ashera and Yune: Stood in sleep for centuries to wait for the world to fix itself. Then, when **** hit the fan, they reacted accordingly and wiped out most of the ones that drove the world like that. Ashera was only stopped because Ike had the help of another goddess by his side which served as the perfect opposition for Ashera and her army of order.

The Krazoa: stood in wait "watching over" the world they created. When **** hits the fan? They do absolutely nothing. And when a giant monkey head that could be defeated by energy beams that "shouldn't" harm a supposedly "godlike" being such as himself actually tries to harm then directly, they are completely powerless and let themselves be absorbed by the monkey.



Actually she did and it was only Yune having a different view from her that made her feel the world was worth something that saved it for the start of it. She couldn’t overcome Yune though because they were equal.


I think you are more along the lines of just underestimating them because you think Scales was the threat for that game and you seem to forget that the real threat was Andross actually when looking at the game, not Scales.

Like I said, no he wasn't. Andross did nothing but "plot" from the sidelines while the Sahrp Claws did most of the dirty work.

Also, why are you making it look like controlling the Krazoa spirits is a difficult task? Fox could do it, Scales could do it. It is implied that anyone could do it. They were not psychics. Andross controlling the Krazoa spirits doesn't seem that special.



Andross was already a galaxy threat before he was killed the 1st time as you can see from Star Fox 64 and he was also the thing that caused the planet to be ****ed up anyway as this video shows at around 0:18 with the talking about the “great evil” that was unleashed in the place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-Z9g9MzYT8&feature=related


"Watch out for the GREAT EVIL in the shape of a very hairy man! He could be a WEREWOLF!"

That whole "great evil deal doesn't seem more than just the legend-talk of a bunch of races locked in the past and in the age of myths and lore, confused by the coming of a being with superior technology from them.

Also, correction: Andross was NOT a galaxy level threat. HIS ARMY was a galaxy level threat. Just like the Anglar army was a galaxy level threat, or how his cousin's army was a threat similar to him.




Yeah, I disagree with that, and here is a small list:

-Mario characters are packing universe destroying powers and such in some way w/o factoring the other ones that are just around.
-Samus is the ultimate result from a race of beings that created a large amount of life.
-Pit takes on a being that took on and over threw “Athena”
-Kirby’s canon is neat, just saying.
-Falcon said **** you to his universe’s gods, and his canon is packing some neat things besides that in those cars.
-Mewtwo is a more powerful clone of a Universal Genesis pokemon because space happens to be talked about.
-Ness/Lucas is packing universe destroying/creating/changing power.
-Sonic has taken on god beings and won.

And like Dryn said, different universes, different strength.

Also, everyone ccan twist what said characters did and make them look ******.

Look at Mario. He conquered ancient dragons of lore just by jumping on them a whole lot. He defeated the icy death itself by just hammering him. He fought against the sun itself and won't.

Let's disregard that said dragons had very prominent weakpoints to abuse, that said icy death only attacked by throwing typical ice cubes and snow at you. That the sun is the size of Mario and doesn't do much besides throwing fire balls at you.



Captain Falcon said "**** you" to gods. Let's disregard the fact that said gods were defeated because Falcon defeated them in racing.


Let's disregard that Samus, while powerfull, is fighting against opponents that are ******** and have 0 regards on the security of their own personel and whose definition of science is injecting their kin with dangerous stuff.


Let's disregard that Sonic fought against gods with the help of other characters, and would have died multiple times during his adventure if he was alone.

Sonic Heroes, Sonic 2006, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic unleashed etc etc etc.


Twisting words to make everyone look ****** is easy as hell.




They didn’t make the master sword actually according to the canon.



“Weaker” in the concept that it tires her out in order to use that stuff, as in she shows true signs of fatigue with the stuff, which itself shows a limit for how much she can use it.

I know what you meant. And powering up Ike did not make her tired. It never said anything about that in the video.


It’s a skill to represent a certain blessing type of the gods.



Again, he pretty much has the skill of mantle even if it doesn’t say it on his screen:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/920189/42716


His story is the same as foes packing Mantle, who cares if the game forgot to put “it” on him? Maybe they didn’t want to give away a certain plot point? After all the BK is related to the true “big bad” of Ike’s games (Sephiran)


Which.....pretty much what I was trying to say. He HAS the mantle skill, they just did not have to show it in.

You are now repeating what I said.


However there is a very large difference between us and them, what with the claws and such.

We have fingernails, teeth, muscles. Everything. Weaker, of course, but we still have them. At our base, we are the same.



Um, is it not just their claws and such for the final battles or something? (As in “natural” weapons, the game even points out that they are "equal" to weapons and such from the other race)

Which was a point in the very first postt I made.

Their weapons are completely unbreakable, even without the blessing. They don't need a blessing to keep them from breaking their weapons.

So why give them a blessing on their teeth if they are unbreakable already? Simple. They blessed their bodies too. Which was the whole point of my first post. They blessed Ike's and everyone else's bodies.



How would it make them broken when the “final” areas all have “the potential” to have foes packing that stuff as well?

And it certainly would be easy to take off after that if they didn’t want to make the after game stuff super easy: notice the game has done it with the start of PoR with stuff like discipline?

The fact is they didn’t do it, and the game makes a clear difference between the blessings given to the characters, I see these types:

Mantel-as in the only this hurts you and such
Class promotion-as in a general power up
Weapons-making things go past mantel

Yune has proof of using two/three of them.


Right, how are they more difficult again when your team is packing a ton of unlimited use items made from the best weapons around if you are sane in using it?

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Mantle

Because the skill also recovers HP equal to the luck you have.

If it only protected you against non-blessed weapons, then I would agree with you. But this thing does more than that, and having all enemies and players recover as much as 30-40 HP every turn would make the whole thing tedious
.




Ah no, there really wouldn’t be much of a difference between the sides if both sides “had it max with all of them” like you are saying they are canon wise when you look at it.



Yeah, and things like HP and such are gameplay mechanics as well. So are you going to start huffing some BS like “Ike has unlimited HP” now because losing HP is in general a game mechanic because of that as well?

You disregarded completely the rest of this response.

I'll post it again just for you:


And even then, that thing technicaly makes all attacks do zero damage against the opponent. No character is tstrong enough to bypass that limit. It would have to be a character with 100 strenght to bypass it, which is impossible unless you hack.

The whole thing means, that they NEED to have an eccuation to reduce said non-blessed attacks to 0. They can't just make all attacks deal 0 damage because they say so. They need multiplications, divisions etc etc etc. They need a way to reduce all attacks to 0.

How do they do it? By making all attacks be divided by 9, which makes attacks as strong as 50 deal only 5 points of damage.

Which is so pathetic, that we may as well consider the attack to deal 0 damage. There is no limit.



Yet they didn’t think to report finding something like a magic suit of ****ing armor that would have come in handy when the people started to fight again like they do in that world, and I don’t think it would be that hard for someone to come in and steal the thing for the BK before Begnion’s occupation took it from their search (or just slap his soul into another suit of armor and recover it from that, both sides have “spies” you know.

Don't ask me that. That is the matter of the people in the game. They may have taken it away, maybe they just dropped it somewhere, maybe they just didn't search the ruins of the castle and neglected it like they neglected the entirety of Daein. The possibilities are endless.

But the fact remains: THE ARMOUR WAS LOST FOREVER. NOONE FOUND IT OR THEY FOUND IT AND SEALED IT SOMEWHERE. ZELGIUS HAD NO ACCESS TO THE ARMOUR ANYMORE.


Um, I didn’t disregard that.

I clearly pointed out that the fact is his soul filled armor itself could have got out naturally w/o teleporting if there was no risk to the building falling on him with the armor having the blessing and if it is what you are saying it is. However, the game mechanics for mantle clearly disagree with that (because I’m sure getting buried alive would do more than a few hundred HP right?)


Good to know. Now see the above part for the rest of the thing.


How are their abilities completely different? The goddess of Ike’s canon created life and all that for one planet for sure, and the Krazoa spirits created life and brought stability to at least one planet for Fox’s canon.

Quoting you:

Oh and I still want to know how a chaos/order god blessing is so immune to things that would naturally just be doing the same things they are like chaos control but only in a different name! (Psychic powers for one thing are very much like what they have as well, and I really don’t see how other gods packing other god powers like them couldn’t officially hurt them if they were to meet as well)

YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE CHAOS EMERALDS, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE CHAOS EMERALDS.


Actually you have the wrong analogy for what this is, again what you are doing is only comparing two different things in name and saying they aren’t the same when in truth they are the same in “type” for what their biggest accomplishments are.

You are pretty much saying a “brown bear” isn’t a bear at all just because it doesn’t look the same as “polar bear” or something like that.

Look above. You are not reading my post. You are just answering while disreagarding both my AND YOUR original points.

And you don't get what I am trying to say.

I am indeed saying that THE TWO THINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS AND ARE SIMILAR ONLY IN NAME.

The Fire Emgblem deifinition of a god is COMPLETELY different from the Star Fox or Sonic definition of a god.

A god in FE: a woman ina silky white dress who is obsessed with Chaos and order. Created beastmen, dragona, giant birds and humans.

God in Star Fox: a floating spirit with tentacles who does nothing except sleeping. Created talking dinosaurs.

God in Mario: a previously human girl who found herself in control of a bunch of stars with eyes.

They are all labeled as gods, but their abilities are very, VERY different
.



How so? Last I checked “world creation” is pretty much the highest thing you can do on the list of powers as far as potential goes (it’s right under “mass species creation” really), besides “galaxy creation” and so on.

Sure, world creation is very high on the list of powers, but that's not my point: does creating the world mean that you have the power to defeat armies?

Another comparison for you.

We can create atom bombs. Does that mean that we can SURVIVE an atom bomb? Do we have the power to stop an atomic explosion from incinerating us if they excplode right on top of us?

Hands created weapons like auto-turrets. Does that mean that a man can defeat an active auto-turret with his bare hands?



They do actually, how about that? I mean there power just have been used to rip up the world in Sonic Unleashed after all, and stuff like Chaos from SA1 certainly was going to say **** you to the world. They also have been use to beat a certain god being (said god was a being that ate “dimensions” for lunch according to Eggman).

To quote myself.....again.

The chaos emeralds may represent chaos in sonic's world…they do not have the power to wipe out the world in an instant.

Emphasis on instant. If Yune had not opposed Ashera, the world would have been sestroyed in an instant.

But once again, that wasn't the point of my post.



To quote....again:



The chaos emeralds may represent chaos in sonic's world, but they are not the separated forms of a god, they did not create the world, they do not have the power to wipe out the world in an instant, their blessing is limited and only works for 50 seconds. Their blessing is gold instead of blue etc etc etc.

The whole point is what I said above. The point is that they are only similar in name only.





Took out the nihil stuff because I know that is not going anywhere.



Anyway, this is a prime example on why wall of texts suck bullocks. The point and original arguments of the entire post is lost in the mind of your opponent because, seriously, reading wall of texts is incredibly tiresome, and people just want tpo finish quickly.

Not to mention that the thing is difficult to read so you are bound to missunderstand or read improperly the word sthe opponent makes.
 

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
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Payasofobia, is there any chance you could not post a reply like that please? Thank you.
 

the king of murder

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Yay Ike won.^^

Current MU: Doesn't TLink get a time stop ability in PH? If he can approach the Trainer without getting damage, this MU is basically his.

Pokemon Trainer has Pokemons that creat Land and Sea, manipulate Space and Time ect..
It won't be easy to overcome all those powerful Pokemons.
 

PowerBomb

Smash Master
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Remember, half of that is Pokedex stuff, which we (now, I guess) now have the power to either allow it or void it. Dialga is allowed, but its time control powers actually cause it to lose a lot of energy. Palkia...eh. Nothing much.

Mind you, a sea would only be created if a TON of rain were to continually fall for a ridiculous amount of time. And besides, Tink has the Wind Waker :D
 

ElPanandero

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So are the time control powers that which ever one of them has enough to nullify Tink's? If so, then Select secondary pokemon for Trainer to use and the match is his...unless I'm missing a major defensie mechanism of Tink's.
 

BSP

Smash Legend
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Let's disregard that Sonic fought against gods with the help of other characters, and would have died multiple times during his adventure if he was alone.
idk about him dying if he would've been alone, but yes, he had some help during some occasions. And he did fight a god alone (chaos) and won.

Sonic Heroes
Metal Sonic couldn't harm the super characters in any way. All he could do was attempt to make them run out of rings. Solo Sonic would not have died. MS seemed invincible to everything but team blast, so solo Sonic couldn't harm him, but he couldn't be harmed back either.

Sonic 2006
The only reason you had to switch in the final boss was because they were no available rings. Each separate hedgehog was perfectly capable of holding their own against Solaris. If Sonic would've come to the fight prepared, holding over 999 rings, he definitely would've had enough time to take down Solaris by himself.

Sonic Adventure 2
Basically the same as above. Sonic could've done it alone. Shadow didn't have anything that Sonic didn't. Fully prepared, Sonic could've done it.



Sonic unleashed
I agree, Sonic did receive help from chip. Super Sonic still was the one to finish dark gaia off though. IMO, Sonic probably could've still done it alone if he was fully prepared, since chip just destracted Gaia, and SS is pretty fast.

etc etc etc.
Like?


The Fire Emgblem deifinition of a god is COMPLETELY different from the Star Fox or Sonic definition of a god.
I agree with you here.

The chaos emeralds may represent chaos in sonic's world…they do not have the power to wipe out the world in an instant.
This may be sorta irrelevant, but the partially charged eclipse cannon could blow up half the moon. IDK if it's full power was ever shown. I'm not trying to say that the CEs could wipe the world in an instant, but they're still very potent.


The chaos emeralds may represent chaos in sonic's world, but they are not the separated forms of a god, they did not create the world, they do not have the power to wipe out the world in an instant, their blessing is limited and only works for 50 seconds. Their blessing is gold instead of blue etc etc etc.

As for Super Sonic being able to hurt Ike: I don't think he'd be able to.

But the 50 sec. thing is wrong. That's only because when said character(s) use them, they have no rings. If you look at Sonic 2 and 3, you can activate the form anytime you have 50+ rings. I disproved Sonic's ring limit of 999, so he definitely has more than 50 sec. (and considering he loses one ring per 5 sec., like unleashed)

TL:DR I don't think Super Sonic can harm Ike, but I'm just defending the Chaos Emeralds' powers.
 

_clinton

Smash Master
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Building planets and fighting are two very different things, and judging someone's power based on one aspect of them seems pretty silly.
Except I’ve also pointed out that they made life on that said rock in case you forgot that. They could build an army if they wanted to (in fact they did, considering how only the SharpClaw and RedEye’s are on the other side from them), it isn’t their fault one part of the life they made wanted control over them and was only able to do it because of Andross.

Who again you really are underestimating as far as potential threat goes.

It's siple logic. Just because two things are similar in one aspect does not make them identical in every other way.
Both of these are coloured red. Does that mean that they are identical? No. One is a circle, the other a square.
Except the point you are missing is that they are similar in many aspects, not just one thing. Really the only real differences I see between them and Ashunera is number (Ashurnera is broken into two for a depressing reason, and they are broken into 6 just because), name (of course that), and “what” they made (and that really doesn’t matter IMO in this case due to the fact that both of the life forms they have made happen to be “human like” for the final result, so I’m pretty sure the fact that they made life in general is more important).

Actually, their technology was not given by Andross. They built it temselves.
Ah no, everything they did that made them a threat was because of Andross:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P406HX0rEns&feature=related
-The video show that the queen Earthwalker herself says that the SharpClaws have become a greater threat somehow at 2:47-3:08. It says that “Scales has always been stopped in the past despite his high level of ****ery, but this time he has somehow become stronger” and beat them.

Plus I can’t believe you think that they made the stuff themselves just in general really. It’s very clear from watching the game that said planet they are on is primitive in its development for 90+ % of it. I mean the main weapons the SharpClaws have deal with axes, clubs, and other “primitive” things. The fact that they have teleporters, sentry robots, various cannons, and so on but in by far more rare amounts compared to the weaker things. Which makes it clear they only got that stuff recently somehow.

This video shows it that they have only had them for a while in case you can’t accept the logical point from me that I just made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1d2TXRejuU&feature=related
7:23-7:27, “Where has the general found such weapons?”

Plus in general the thing Scales is doing on Dragon Rock (making bioweapons) for that part of the game is something that Andross did in SF64 in case you never noticed that (of course I really don’t need to say that, after all you know what he looks like, yeah he himself was an experiment).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6s8qMGOONw&playnext_from=TL&videos=N4mfXN7mU2U
Man I love this level, and the history for it being a nest made from Andross’ experiments proves my point that Dragon Rock’s mutant monsters have Andross’ fingers over them (In case Falco calling him a madman isn’t proof enough).

And just to prove my point more, just look at the boss for that area:
http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Vulcain

All Andross did was doing abso****ingnothing till the end were he pulled an asspull of epic proportions in a game that wasn't even about Star Fox at first.
I’m aware that the game wasn’t Star Fox at 1st, but who gives a **** now? (Even if 50+% of it could have been dealt with w/o using that ****ing staff) The game has been made canon as far as the series goes (Star Fox for the SNES, Star Fox 2, and Star Fox Command are the ones that aren’t canon).

Oh and Andross’ asspull is nothing compared to some of the other enemies in this thread (Ganondorf for one), and it isn’t even a shock really. The start of the game-the end of the game all give hints that he is behind the stuff. **** pretty much every series in this thread is responsible for reusing things in some way. If you think Ike is the only FE character to ever beat a god/use god power you might want to look again at Marth and Roy’s canons.

Oh and another thing about Andross’ behind the scenes approach; Scales didn’t know it was him helping him, he didn’t even know he was there (because Scales sucks that much).

But the Sharp Claws? They communicate entirely on grunts and never speak in the game. Only General Scales communicates properlyBut they are still intelligent so that's just a meaningless detail.
They speak in the game, quite a lot really, and here are just a few examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKuVnLPE5B8&feature=related
1:30, one higher ranked guard before you have to start dodging barrels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSCGMEl9hdc&feature=related
4:05, a lower grunt where you get your staff back.

There, proof that lower SharpClaws and higher SharpClaws can talk. In fact all of the dinos can talk (and each have their own “style” as well).

They may not have killed the gods, but they pretty much destroyed everything they created, messed with their shrines and drove them away. And the Krazoa were powerless to stop them. And if the Sharp Claws would have felt like it, they could have dominated all of the Krazoa spirits and used them for their own ends. And they wouldn't have done anything to stop it.
The only reason the SharpClaw were able to do anything was because of Andross in case you didn’t notice my other stuff before this showing it, because until he showed up, there was no real major problem according to the game (just saying it again).

Oh and the giant monkey you keep making fun of for some reason is a powerful psychic (and btw psychic energy is pretty much what god power may as well be in case you don’t get that) who laughs at death’s face according to the Star Fox canon.

Hell the only reason the spirits can’t go back to the resting grounds themselves is because of Andross hiding out there (as I showed in an earlier video with that dino saying there is a great evil hiding out there). In fact I’m pretty sure the reason they reveal themselves to Fox other than to save Crystal is just because of how famous he is in the 1st place in that galaxy, you are aware that Andross never showed himself to Fox but was clearly responsible for trapping Krystal right? I wonder why Andross wouldn’t show himself to Fox much except for the 1st time at the end of the game, other than the fact that he fears Fox knowing who he is.

Oh and the lasers didn’t hurt Andross in the god form, Fox needed a bomb to even open him up for damage. Said bomb BTW clearly shows that it has enough power to wipe out a large area that is for sure the size of most of Ike’s battlefields if needed only using one. Which also another thing I think you keep forgetting is that Fox has enough fire power to flat out destroy such an area that Ike is at. I mean really Dino planet is pretty much = to Ike’s world as far as base technology/government goes and Fox deals with that area single handed using basic stuff (hell that is what Scales did in regards to the other races).

Just saying, Technology>”Magic” by far.

Like I said, no he wasn't. Andross did nothing but "plot" from the sidelines while the Sahrp Claws did most of the dirty work.

Also, why are you making it look like controlling the Krazoa spirits is a difficult task? Fox could do it, Scales could do it. It is implied that anyone could do it. They were not psychics. Andross controlling the Krazoa spirits doesn't seem that special.
I hope the fact that I’ve pointed out proof that Scales got the stuff or at least “the how” from Andross, and how Andross “pushed” Krystal into the beam is enough to prove that he did more than just plot.
Also, the Krazoa spirits are clearly picky about what person they will use as a host, they clearly say that only those pure of heart can take their tests at least two times in the game (once with Krystal before she takes the bloody test with info from the dying dino, once with Fox when they 1st speak to him).

In fact, Andross getting passed one of their barriers is another thing I’d like to point out for how strong the guy is. One of the game’s hidden events that is shown if you gather enough cheat tokens (8 IIRC), has the game telling you that Andross is alive still (of course) and besides being able to flat out control “evil” (as shown with characters like Scales who didn’t even know he was there) he can also corrupt “good” if given a chance.

That whole "great evil deal doesn't seem more than just the legend-talk of a bunch of races locked in the past and in the age of myths and lore, confused by the coming of a being with superior technology from them.

Also, correction: Andross was NOT a galaxy level threat. HIS ARMY was a galaxy level threat. Just like the Anglar army was a galaxy level threat, or how his cousin's army was a threat similar to him.
At the final Krazoa spirit with Scales; Andross points out that the Earthwalkers did notice who Andross was along with Krystal (to prove that Andross was doing more than just “plot”).

Oh and how please explain how strong Ashera would have been if she didn’t break her own rules with regards to order considering how Yune’s army was WTF pwning the hell out of them before the tower? Also with regards to her bringing back the dead to fight Ike’s team over and over again, one must wonder why she didn’t just do that for the final area?

And like Dryn said, different universes, different strength.
And Ike’s goddess has only made one world, how on earth would that make him win vs. characters like one of the Star Children (Mario) who have enough power to **** a universe if given a chance when put together?

In regards to Mario, I also like how you avoid the fact that besides Bowser (who btw has been shown to be very powerful in regards to dark magic because he is a star child or something), his list of foes include world busting/universe destroyers (**** one foe he has fought could eat time and space, what does that say about Ike?).

Of course I don’t have to explain the Mario RPG games when they have been brought up like 9001 times with other posts (oh and Paper Mario was what I was referencing when I said Bowser beat his world’s gods, not SMG).

In regards to Falcon, I like how you think him beating them in racing is a small thing, I mean the races are just done at supersonic speeds (which btw is more than just impressive because it pretty much says that you have to “super human” normally in order to compete in such a thing, and Falcon’s canon is filled with ninja pirate robot dinosaur zombies as “normal things” but he is the champ of said event for the canon), and the gods had control over a being who was the ruler of “the underworld” before Falcon kicked his ***. BTW Falcon is the symbol for “light” in his canon as well in case you didn’t notice my meaning behind the part where Falcon ****ed his underworld counterpart.

Oh and you thinking Samus is only just dealing with the space pirates is also a bit off, you seemed to have forgotten the part about things like Mother Brain being made by the Chozo, and stuff like Phazon and the X which either have a simulation effect/consider the universe food.

Oh and you saying Sonic would have died multiple times is kind of funny when you are trying to defend FE, I mean Ike is just one unit out of many that you can use you know. Fun fact I’m pretty sure Ike didn’t do everything himself. The fact remains however that Sonic does have some sort of control over the chaos emeralds, and he has used them to save the world from D-day more than once because the only series in this thread that is the most unique as far as presentation is the Mother series (but that is just another issue).

I know what you meant. And powering up Ike did not make her tired. It never said anything about that in the video.
Please check again:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/932999/53574
Yune: I would like that. I guess I forgive you, then. Oh, I know! As a sign of
my forgiveness, I'll make sure that you can get to your destination safely.
I can't do it for everyone because it's a bit exhausting for me, but...
Hold still and close your eyes.
Her powering up people is “exhausting” for her, in fact her blessing clearly tire her out as you can see when she powers up the weapons:

Yune: OK, I'm all done now. Whew... I... That was really hard... I think I...
I think I need to rest.
Oh and check this out:
Yune: We did create life, and can do many things that you creatures of flesh
can't. But that doesn't make us perfect. It just means we can make mistakes
on a much grander scale...
Oh my, the gods aren’t perfect.

Which.....pretty much what I was trying to say. He HAS the mantle skill, they just did not have to show it in.

You are now repeating what I said.
Um, excuse me but I’m pretty sure I also said that at the start as well, my original argument in case you forgot with regards to the blessing was that it could only be acted on “weapons and armor.” Which if it wasn’t for certain things being confusing with regards to characters packing natural weapons and armor, I’d be 100% right.

We have fingernails, teeth, muscles. Everything. Weaker, of course, but we still have them. At our base, we are the same.
Which is my point really the stuff we have is naturally weaker, so blessing it wouldn’t make as much sense as blessing the stuff that allows them to actually equal them (weapons and armor and such). The natural advantages they have allow the blessing to take effect in certain aspects such as their build and the natural weapons.

Which was a point in the very first postt I made.
Except you miss my point about how they are only equal because of weapons/armor, if Ike’s race didn’t have that advantage for some reason. The other race would have the plus.

So why give them a blessing on their teeth if they are unbreakable already? Simple. They blessed their bodies too. Which was the whole point of my first post. They blessed Ike's and everyone else's bodies.
Funny, the point of my post was that blessing their body would only made sense for something packing some natural build behind it already (or something like/is armor).

If it only protected you against non-blessed weapons, then I would agree with you. But this thing does more than that, and having all enemies and players recover as much as 30-40 HP every turn would make the whole thing tedious.
There would still be plenty of ways to show that they have it (just have different skills that say it but do different things or so). I mean the BK got away with saying he had it just fine without as many side effects as we keep saying. You’d think they would have said that for everyone, instead of just saying only such and such has it (as in two others besides Ashera, there are still two others there you’d think would have had it, what with how they were leading the armies as well).

You disregarded completely the rest of this response.

I'll post it again just for you:
Ah I did not disregard the rest of the post, I was bringing it up with regards to how the BK is unable to get his armor back actually, because a castle falling in on it sure does seem like it is enough to bypass it if you ask me.

Like I said, I’m pretty sure a building falling on you would hurt more than some guy just trying to cut you with a sword, or someone blasting you with a bomb that has been shown to level areas the size of where characters like Ike would fight.

Don't ask me that. That is the matter of the people in the game. They may have taken it away, maybe they just dropped it somewhere, maybe they just didn't search the ruins of the castle and neglected it like they neglected the entirety of Daein. The possibilities are endless.
RD clearly says that they searched for the BK after Ike’s fight in the castle in PoR and couldn’t find him.
Elincia: The day after you fought, Bastian ordered some men to search the
remains of Nados Castle. There was no trace of the Black Knight. No
armor... No sword... No corpse.
Within 24 hours ok, so the only way there would be no armor is if it is like I say it is (and isn’t like you say it is) and was truly destroyed instead. Plus the fact that the gods themselves have clear limits (again being tired after a blessing or so) and admit themselves that they are not perfect clearly shows that the stuff they touch should be the same way still.

THE ARMOUR WAS LOST FOREVER. NOONE FOUND IT OR THEY FOUND IT AND SEALED IT SOMEWHERE. ZELGIUS HAD NO ACCESS TO THE ARMOUR ANYMORE.
Which would work if I was trying to point out that someone beat him with a blessing still (and why didn’t he have one again after that for that final area?), but my point is that something screwed his armor over.

YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE CHAOS EMERALDS, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE CHAOS EMERALDS.
Ok fine, the chaos emeralds clearly have some more differences than what things like Ike’s goddess has. In that they have powered up gods before as well.

The Fire Emgblem deifinition of a god is COMPLETELY different from the Star Fox or Sonic definition of a god.
Already talked about this.

They are all labeled as gods, but their abilities are very, VERY different.
This is what I don’t agree on. Both have made things that also have a lot in common.

Sure, world creation is very high on the list of powers, but that's not my point: does creating the world mean that you have the power to defeat armies?
Why wouldn’t you be able to defeat your own creations unless something ****ed up as happened such as in the case with Andross (or Star Spirits and Bowser)?

Another comparison for you.
You know, if you are going to make comparisons like what you do, you might want to make an example that isn’t just asking if scissors will cut paper.

And to answer your question with regards to taking on armies why couldn’t you just remove the world instead of having to deal with BS? Well I’ll tell you why in regards to Star Fox’s reason, because there were still beings on there that weren’t ****ers, and were even willing to fight for what was theirs no matter how little the odds they had of keeping it.

(Gee what does that have in common with Ike’s FE canon?)

The chaos emeralds may represent chaos in sonic's world…they do not have the power to wipe out the world in an instant.
Oh no, of course something that gives you free control over space and time at full power wouldn’t destroy the world in an instant if used wrong. Such a thing is talking more along the lines of universe ****ing actually.

They have unlimited potential energy according to the canon, what you see is more along the lines of what the limits are from others drawing on them, not the emeralds themselves. (So Sonic’s 50 seconds/health bar for some games is really just from his own limits of using them, not them).

One of my cases is in Sonic Battle when a weapon that was being powered by them that had more than enough power to destroy the planet (it took out an unknown amount of space in the area) and went out of control. Sonic had less than 30 seconds to stop it and to beat a super powered robot also being powered by them who had his base abilities but were stronger forms of them, oh and he did this without becoming Super (because said robot also mimics, which is how it got his abilities in the 1st place).

Oh and the chaos emeralds have also brought things back to life as well (Sonic himself actually).

Emphasis on instant. If Yune had not opposed Ashera, the world would have been sestroyed in an instant.
Which is funny because all the Krazoa have to do in order to destroy their planet would be to leave it, because if they do the magic energy sealing it together would be unleashed. Really their reason for staying is pretty much the same as Yune’s in a way.
 

PowerBomb

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Toon Link has the Magic Armor...

That can help as he chases down the trainer, but Tink might be a bit preoccupied as five other Pokemon decide to jump on him. Seriously, all PT really needs is...

Dialga - Shown to stop time BS, so no Time Stopping fail. It's also a huge pony-thing that can levitate... kind of. So it might be able to provide protective movement for the trainer as he basically screams, "Attack Tink" or something.

5 Other Pokemon... preferably Pokemon that can keep the pressure on Tink with special attacks or just status him. Charizard, Salamence, Dragonite, Gengar (status), and perhaps Electrode as a suicide bomber/T-Wave spammer.

Seriously, what can Toon Link actually do? Magic Armor? Stall-out is easy, especially with Tink being knocked back every second or so by the constant bombardment of Flamethrowers/Ice Beams/Shadow Balls.
 

Elbr'erti

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Well, any pokemon projectile, including flamethrowers and such, could be repelled by the Mirror Shield. I believe PT was only allowed 2 pokemon, but taking even like... Drowzee and just disabling any of the attacks Tink uses should stop him. Then take something the Tink can't avoid, like a psychic type/attack. Mirror Shield can't block it, eventually Tink will be overrun. What has he to stop the Trainer? Seems like Reflect or Barrier could stop any of Tinks attacks as well.
 

_clinton

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Wow, its amazing how much more powerful PT is when we allow him things that control time/space/and so on, so why did he lose to Samus again?
 

_clinton

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Well I'm still waiting for a ton of other things to be replied to, I guess one more wouldn't hurt.
 

ElPanandero

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ElPanandero
Haha I'm not sure you want to get into this with me again, but I'm game if you are.
 

_clinton

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Haha I'm not sure you want to get into this with me again, but I'm game if you are.
Tech. I'm waiting for your reply yes, but you aren't the only one I'm waiting for a reply from. Of course I'm not really wanting to deal with another huge wall of text ATM as well, so maybe I should be a bit direct with what the bulk of what I'm waiting for is (that won't make a reply 10+ pages long).
 

PKNintendo

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Oh wow. Pkmn needs a cap or we should plain ole ban him. Having access to every single pokemon? ****ing Bull****.

You guys DO know that when Dialga and Palkia are caught using a pokeball they lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of power. (This is why Cyrus used the Red Chain)


Embargo >> tink, rawr.

And PT has quite a few broken legendaries to access as well, and lets not forget some mind reader -> sheer cold combo keke.
Lol, does everyone pokemon to you guys learn embargo? And embargo sucks. Stop wasting a moveslot for it.

But yeah, TL doesn't stand a chance. Hell NOBODY stands a chance to Pokemon trainer. I DO think he/she should be limited.
 

Diddy Kong

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Yeah I don't know why either... Cause there sure are no problems with Ganon, Samus and Bowser being overpowered.
 

ElPanandero

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ElPanandero
How much power do they lose though? Because if it's significant enough, I'll just leave this argument, but if they retain some of their time/space powers then why not keep the argument going.

And Diddy I agree 100% (especially with Samus :p)
 

WhatIsRaizen?

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Win = +1. Loss = -1. Draw = no change.

Current Match-Up:
THE MAN IN GREEN Vs. THE CHOSEN CHILD

Luigi Vs. Young Link

:luigi2: Vs. :younglinkmelee:

Round 6, Match 8.

Vs.


Here's the next matchup.
 

PowerBomb

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I believe we have the decision whether or not to allow that particular Pokemon their 'Dex abilities', which is why Dialga can somewhat control time.

O right, the Poke Ball reducing Pokemon power thing. I completely forgot about that. That also limits Dialga/other legendaries with supah-powers.

And Samus beats PT because she kills him before he does anything significant. One shot travels through the initial Pokemon (damaging them/freezing them) and hits PT, thereby killing him.
 

ElPanandero

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And Dialgia's time control could not slow her down before she has a chance to kill him so even with that, she still wins, correct?

Current Match-up
Luigi has plenty of healing/invincibility items...so I guess he'd win right? Since there is no fierce Deity Yink really has nothing unless I'm forgetting some forgotten game.

And for future reference, what are the Nes/Snes/Gameboy Links considered Young or Old? (excluding Minish, which I believe is Toon
 

Ganonsburg

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And Dialgia's time control could not slow her down before she has a chance to kill him so even with that, she still wins, correct?

Current Match-up
Luigi has plenty of healing/invincibility items...so I guess he'd win right? Since there is no fierce Deity Yink really has nothing unless I'm forgetting some forgotten game.

And for future reference, what are the Nes/Snes/Gameboy Links considered Young or Old? (excluding Minish, which I believe is Toon
I think that as far as the Links go, it's like this:

Young Link: Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask
Toon Link: Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks
Adult Link: Could be either Ocarina Adult Link, or Twilight Princess Link. I'm not sure which, because they've both been in Smash Bros and there's only the one on this list.

I just realized something about Young Link. The Couples' Mask calms people down and stops them from arguing and fighting. I'm not sure how well it works, but it is another asset he has. He also has the Stone Mask, which prevents almost everyone from noticing him (except for Gerudos in designated fighting spots in the Pirate Fortress, and a few specific situations). I'm not sure how fast Luigi is, but Yink can double his speed with the Bunny Hood.

:034:
 

ElPanandero

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Alright, so i understand

I'm not sure if the couples mask would work, though Luigi is already pretty timid, so maybe it'd work on him...thoughts to consider.

And perhaps I'm mistaken, but didn't the stone mask only make him invisible to the gerudeos...as it only purpose inside their fortress...though I could be wrong.

Regardless, I think Luigi's stupid invincibility power ups make him untouchable >.>
 

Ganonsburg

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The stone mask works on most enemies and guards.
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Stone_Mask

But Luigi's invincibility does give him a huge upper hand. I think the best Link can hope for is a tie, depending on how much credit we allow his masks.

Considering Luigi has a GF (I think, isn't it always implied or something?), I'd say the couples' mask would work to some extent on him.

:034:
 

Elbr'erti

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Messages
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Can each of the invincibility items be used over again? Because Link could just use the bunny hood to keep away from Luigi, or the Stone Mask, until the invincibility runs out and then attack.
 

ElPanandero

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I like that idea, even if he can do it, I suppose in an extraordinarily unorthidox way Young Link could attack in between attacks.

...Wait doesn't Luigi have some sort of time stopping clock weapon or something like that?

Of course in that case the hit and run tactic would work more efficiently with couple/Stone mask options.
 
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