Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Elbr'erti]

Link could do the same using the Ocarina He can slow time, reverse time or stop time.

 

[_clinton]

You guys DO know that when Dialga and Palkia are caught using a pokeball they lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of power. (This is why Cyrus used the Red Chain)

Cyrus used the red chain in order to control said pokemon actually. The 3 psychics cancelled him out of it and destroyed the chain as you can see from this video. However, it was unable to be stopped by itself from this still fully:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEnGyr7fWvU&feature=related

Also pokeballs only “pacify” pokemon when they are in the ball according to what I see for D/P, they don’t make them weaker.

But yeah, TL doesn't stand a chance. Hell NOBODY stands a chance to Pokemon trainer. I DO think he/she should be limited.

Ness and Lucas are being underestimated to the point where it is just insane, technically they should just be able to will away these fighters according to their canon.

I believe we have the decision whether or not to allow that particular Pokemon their 'Dex abilities', which is why Dialga can somewhat control time.

Oh yes, because he doesn't just get 99% close to making a new galaxy in the 4th gen games.

And Samus beats PT because she kills him before he does anything significant. One shot travels through the initial Pokemon (damaging them/freezing them) and hits PT, thereby killing him.

So, how come you think Samus' beams will pierce every pokemon that PT has when the beams don't always pierce everything else in the games?

I just realized something about Young Link. The Couples' Mask calms people down and stops them from arguing and fighting.

Yes, which is why it totally works on human foes who are trying to beat the **** out of you in the game huh? (such as the Gerudo guards you keep talking about).

He also has the Stone Mask, which prevents almost everyone from noticing him (except for Gerudos in designated fighting spots in the Pirate Fortress, and a few specific situations).

Yeah, and those guards/foes that can see you also happen to mention that they see your mask as some sort of magic and that is why it doesn’t work on them. I mean just try going into the room with the zora eggs at that Gerudo pirate fort before releasing the bees on the guards and see what I mean when the “Nabooru” for the game sees you.

Oh and there are plenty of other human foes who can see you as well, really the only ones the thing works on are “grunts,” and last I checked Luigi isn’t a “grunt.”

Hell Link himself needed the lens of truth to see someone wearing the mask (how do you think he got it?), so I say someone who can use magic/whatever should be able to see them.

And considering how Luigi is clearly good at magic, what with him being a star child, being a match for the chaos heart, and so on, and don’t see how Link is going to be able to hide from Luigi.

And Luigi has been shown to see invisible foes of some type even when they try to “phase out if they are being looked at” if you get my point (as in things like Boos).

Of course at the very least because Link has something like the lens of truth, should Luigi choose to become invisible as well (because he can, just thought I’d let you all know). Link should be able to see him.

I'm not sure how fast Luigi is, but Yink can double his speed with the Bunny Hood.

And Luigi has been shown to be faster than any “bunny rabbit.” After all he out runs them all the time w/o any issue at all in SM64DS, he also outruns bullet bills and such.

Also when the point of the RPGs is to “dodge” your foes attacks, and he is pretty agile in the 1st place. I’d say he is quite fast anyway.

Although said mask also improves Link’s reaction time and stuff like that according to MM, it does more than just improve his speed, it improves all of his senses pretty much.

 

[REL38]

Didn't someone find where it actually says Pokéballs restrict power?



@Clinton

Those rabbits in M64DS aren't very fast by Mario world standards
Especially considering 3D speed seems slower than 2D speed for the bros.

Also, I think the Bullet Bills aren't comparable to RL bullet/rocket shells when it comes to speed

 

[xbrawlmasterx]

Mario Is The Best Then Comes Toon Link

 

[_clinton]

Didn't someone find where it actually says Pokéballs restrict power?

It is in the 4th generation of games, it is used to stop Palkia and those others, and they only "restrict power" when they are in the balls. How do you think they capture pokemon in the 1st place? They are "pacified" when put in them. The game shows that there is no issue with that when they are out of them though, I mean they could still be wild if the trainer is bad (as in is using pokemon that aren't truly is and isn't experienced enough with them, after all the "badges" clearly show stuff like that).

Those rabbits in M64DS aren't very fast by Mario world standards

Well I wasn't being serious when I brought them up as well. I mean they are a side part for a remake of a game that has nothing to do with the actual story.

I was just joking about them because of what the "bunny hood" is.

Especially considering 3D speed seems slower than 2D speed for the bros.

Meh, it depends on the player/other things overall I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POOMF_klGoY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XdeGaIqx7Y

Personally all I know is that I wouldn't **** with Mario when he has a cape at least.

However, of course MW seems faster than SM64. For some reason a warp was around Bowser's castle at his front door, but whatever.

Also, I think the Bullet Bills aren't comparable to RL bullet/rocket shells when it comes to speed

How so? They are overall the fastest moving things in most of the Mario games by normal standards besides some other things which mostly "fly" in the 1st place as well.

Its not Bowser's fault that Mario and Luigi are super human to the point where a few armies aren't enough to stop them.

 

[REL38]

It is in the 4th generation of games, it is used to stop Palkia and those others, and they only "restrict power" when they are in the balls. How do you think they capture pokemon in the 1st place? They are "pacified" when put in them. The game shows that there is no issue with that when they are out of them though, I mean they could still be wild if the trainer is bad (as in is using pokemon that aren't truly is and isn't experienced enough with them, after all the "badges" clearly show stuff like that).

Well, if they were only restricted power once inside of the Pokeball, then how does returning nullify their "unrestricted power"?

In relation to being wild, I saw that as obedience
That badges show a trainer's experience so the Pokemon respect em' more (as odd as that sounds)

Well I wasn't being serious when I brought them up as well. I mean they are a side part for a remake of a game that has nothing to do with the actual story.

I was just joking about them because of what the "bunny hood" is.

Kinda thought it was serious

Meh, it depends on the player/other things overall I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POOMF_klGoY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XdeGaIqx7Y

Personally all I know is that I wouldn't **** with Mario when he has a cape at least.

However, of course MW seems faster than SM64. For some reason a warp was around Bowser's castle at his front door, but whatever.

I've personally seen speed runs as a great example of Mario's agility

He usually travels at a set foot speed which isn't that grand, but he'd probably be zipping about with that long jump, dive and cape

How so? They are overall the fastest moving things in most of the Mario games by normal standards besides some other things which mostly "fly" in the 1st place as well.

Its not Bowser's fault that Mario and Luigi are super human to the point where a few armies aren't enough to stop them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsHqqXcy5lc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTIpuZ7hLbg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws8BfH56gxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYBtymGNW2g&feature=related (around 1 min)


Their speed isn't very noteworthy other than Mario usually being able to/not outrun them
But in the Mario Universe, these guys are usually the fastest thing trying to kill you

I just don't think Bullet Bills really measure Mario as super fast than a speeding RL bullet
Just pretty fast

 

[Elbr'erti]

I don't see how you can truly compare the speeds of two different universes to the point where one is all of a sudden some speed demon with his normal in game running. Both seem like they run at more or less average speeds without any items helping. When do you see Luigi running faster than bullets? With a star or even a koopa shell to slide around on, sure you're hitting some top speeds, but Link still has the Bunny Hood.

Again, don't forget Link can at the very least slow time. This would allow him to be even faster in comparison.

And what are you considering magic use? Using an item is magic? He may be a star child and above average, but I'm not sure Luigi could see a stone mask wearer without some kind of Lens of Truth in hand.

 

[Samochan]

Didn't someone find where it actually says Pokéballs restrict power?

I don't think I've ever read of anything about restricting their powers, even if it were logical. The pokes could just restrict themselves, kinda like a wild untamed cat can do lots of damage to a human, while a housecat is sweet and hardly damages it's owner, however the ability is still there.

When you're set on capturing dialga/palkia/giratina, you need to calm them down. Nothing about restriction here, though pokeballs obviously restrict them when inside their pokeballs. I haven't heard of the source where it says pokeballs diminish their powers and I've just played platinum as well. It could be as a reference used to describe red chain, how the red chain brings them under control and all, while keeping em out of their pokeballs. :/

 

[ElPanandero]

Even if they were restricted, why would they lose all fo their time/space control powers? If he can travel through the time continuum, why wouldn't he simply be able to freeze/slow time after being captrued, it doesn't kill them, it simply limits the extent of their god powers...I belive anyway.

 

[the king of murder]

YLink has
-18 days invulnerability
-time slow
-can turn into a giant
-elematal arrows
-powerful swords
-the power to turn into another powerful creature (Deku, Goron, Zora, Fierce Deity)
-double speed running (Bunny Hood, Epona)
-can stun the opponent for a moment (Deku Nuts lol)

Luigi has
-broken starman power
-stop watch (not sure about that one)
-very high jump ability
-can turn into a giant as well
-strong arsenal like the ultra hammer
-flight
-fire flower, ice flower ect..
-tanooki suit

This would be a close MU, right? I'm not sure who will win this.

 

[ElPanandero]

If there's a cap on starman, the couples mask effects, or some stealth aspect to stone mask then Yink wins, if not, then perhaps a draw? Unless weegee has something I'm forgetting.

 

[_clinton]

Well, if they were only restricted power once inside of the Pokeball, then how does returning nullify their "unrestricted power"?

Do I really have to explain the problem with the idea of you guys assuming that pokeballs make pokemon weaker instead of just “pacifying” them when they are in them?

If the pokeballs really made pokemon weaker than the idea of using them for protection from wild pokemon like several people in that world do in the 1st place wouldn’t make sense.

Also going on do you see how they are healed in the 1st place at pokemon centers? They are in the pokeballs! The pokeballs clearly are relaxing for the pokemon to be in them somehow.

In relation to being wild, I saw that as obedience
That badges show a trainer's experience so the Pokemon respect em' more (as odd as that sounds)

Um the show and game both disagree with you, if the pokemon doesn’t listen to the trainer chances are it is because of the trainer being unskilled to the point where they can’t just can’t handle them.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/367023/48982

[008] : Our POKEMON's an outsider, so it's hard to handle. An outsider is
a POKEMON that you get in a trade. It grows fast, but it may ignore
an unskilled trainer in battle! If only we had some BADGEs...

[011] : POKEMON BADGES are owned only by skilled trainers.

He usually travels at a set foot speed which isn't that grand, but he'd probably be zipping about with that long jump, dive and cape

You are aware that in order for him to perform some of the stunts he does such as “flight” with the cape he would need to be moving very fast based off what his “build” is like.

Their speed isn't very noteworthy other than Mario usually being able to/not outrun them
But in the Mario Universe, these guys are usually the fastest thing trying to kill you

I just don't think Bullet Bills really measure Mario as super fast than a speeding RL bullet
Just pretty fast

Why do you think they aren’t equal to a RL bullet? Mario and Luigi are characters who clearly defy the normal human limits already with things like there wall jump/jumps/super strength in general.

And it’s not like the Mario games are the only ones who “slow down” game play for what they are doing for the “players sake,” I mean Sonic does it as well with things like bullets from various foes.

I mean characters like Wario show off super speed a lot as well (the guy can move fast enough to run across water).

I don't see how you can truly compare the speeds of two different universes to the point where one is all of a sudden some speed demon with his normal in game running.

Well for starters Luigi seems faster because a normal horse is faster than everything Yink can use except for the Goron Mask’s roll. You know, because w/o his items Yink is just a normal human unlike Luigi in the 1st place (minus the “god’s protection” that he has I guess). Oh and one really has to question just how great Ganondorf is when a normal human can kick his *** with a magic sword, but whatever.

Granted Epona is also clearly a Thoroughbred horse (she isn’t a Quarter horse, the races you use her for seem far too long for that so if you are trying to make her faster than she is, try again) due to how you participate in horse racing and so on in OoT/MM and those horses hit speeds of up to 40 MPH or so.

Of course Epona is also a bit “hot-blooded” as both games that have her show (oh and TP as well really, so a 3rd game is on the list) and Thoroughbred horses are known for being like that in general.

When do you see Luigi running faster than bullets?

Well its more than just bullets, like I said before Luigi also gains enough speed to run up walls, achieve “flight,” oh and both of the brothers have been seen outrunning battleships that are starting to take off in general if given a chance (SMB3 where they get on the battleships in general).

Again, don't forget Link can at the very least slow time. This would allow him to be even faster in comparison.

Yes, because “time” isn’t ever brought up in the Mario universe in general (even though I still don’t think a stop watch does that), and it’s not like Yink is going to get a chance to even play that ocarina, just thought I’d remind you on how he does slow down time in case you forgot.

And what are you considering magic use? Using an item is magic? He may be a star child and above average, but I'm not sure Luigi could see a stone mask wearer without some kind of Lens of Truth in hand.

So did you like ignore the part where I said “normal foes/several bosses” use said skill that you are talking about with regards to the stone mask and Luigi can track them just fine? Or how Luigi can do it as well.

Oh and I consider magic use a lot of things in the Mario series, what with how Bowser has turned the MK into stone before (his 1st appearance), trapped people in walls (SM64), done a ton of other polymorph stuff to a bunch of kings in MB3, can regress your age to the point where you are back in diapers or something like that according to the Yoshi’s in SMW, summons lightning (PM and so on), can teleport (SM64), and so on.

Really Bowser’s specialty is black magic, and the Mario brothers (oh and btw Mario and Luigi are twins and their real differences just come from the fact that Mario is a bit more bulker than Luigi) have been seen to cancel that stuff out in several games (such as SM64 with Mario in general).

But yeah I would consider a lot of the items that the Mario characters use to be some sort of magic, because the game’s say they are quite often.

YLink has
-18 days invulnerability

Yes, because it's not like he has to recast it every minute or so and the only time he can recast it is when the old one is dead. Also it only protects him from "the heart damage" he can still get his *** knocked down.

-can turn into a giant

Yep and when he is a giant he can't use anything but the Glided Sword, not even other magic.

-elematal arrows

Yes, because Luigi can't throw a fire or ice ball.

-powerful swords

I'm sure they beat a guys fists/feet/hammer/ect. when that guy has been shown to break through walls and such with them.

-the power to turn into another powerful creature (Deku, Goron, Zora, Fierce Deity)

The only one of those that is even defined by the word "powerful" is the FDM, who is like 8 feet tall and is a devil god.

-double speed running (Bunny Hood, Epona)

I'm pretty sure that Epona breaks the rules of no outside help or something, and the Bunny Hood isn't anywhere near as fast as her.

-can stun the opponent for a moment (Deku Nuts lol)

Luigi has that stuff as well Volt shroom will make Link regret touching him.

-broken starman power

You guys are the only ones who see it as broken, I like how everyone keeps forgetting how the stuff for everyone shows proof that it isn't perfect in so called invulnerability.

Of course Starmen also have an unlimited recharge rate, so stopping him is pretty much impossible based off what you guys are saying.

 

[ElPanandero]

Well is it possible to play an ocarina while moving? Because it so, Yink can put on the bunny hood and begin running to begin playing the ocarina to slow down time. If he can keep luigi at bay, adding to the fact that both have infinite endurance (You could in theory run for years at a time in either game without ever stopping [though was there ever a time when luigi wasn't limited to a time limit [though thats a game mechanic isn't it?])). So I'm seeing this end as a draw as Yink can run indefinetly...or is that against the rules?

 

[Ganonsburg]

Clinton, you don't have to be a complete jerk when addressing others. You're allowed to be civil once in a while. In other words, stop talking down to everyone. There is no reason to be so rude. We're just bringing up points to be debated; it doesn't mean we expect them to completely shut down everyone else.

As for Epona, I think she's allowed. She's essentially a vehicle, so I don't see why she wouldn't be allowed. I mean, don't Luigi and Mario get to use tons of tools that are living? Like Starman, Mushrooms, etc. Unless you want to give all those up of course.

As for Luigi's fire/ice balls, I'm pretty sure they have less range than Yink's arrows.

 

[PowerBomb]

@Everyone:

The reason Cyrus uses the Red Chain is because Dialga/Palkia/Giratina's power cannot be harnessed if caught in a Poke Ball. It just can't, which is why the Red Chain part of the story. This is said in Cyrus' computer in the Galactic HQ (YES I FOUND IT).

According to myths, the Pokémon created Sinnoh with its power. However, capturing the Pokémon with a Poké Ball prevents it from using its full power... But with the Red Chain, the Pokémon can be shackled, and its power can be used without restraint...

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Galactic_HQ

PT can't use Dialga/Palkia's powers. Samus beating PT is uh, pretty much set in stone now IMO. Quick Imperialist laser at the start or just firing her combo'd Beam (of which I mean Wave/Plasma/Wide/etc all combined).

 

[REL38]

Do I really have to explain the problem with the idea of you guys assuming that pokeballs make pokemon weaker instead of just “pacifying” them when they are in them?

If the pokeballs really made pokemon weaker than the idea of using them for protection from wild pokemon like several people in that world do in the 1st place wouldn’t make sense.

Also going on do you see how they are healed in the 1st place at pokemon centers? They are in the pokeballs! The pokeballs clearly are relaxing for the pokemon to be in them somehow.

It would still make complete sense

I'm of the idea that it limits the certain abilities Pokemon posses, like Machamp moving mountains or Garchomp flying at intense speeds

From what Powerbomb just posted, I'm more inclined to believe this to be so


As far as PokeCenters, I don't really see how relevent healing is

Um the show and game both disagree with you, if the pokemon doesn’t listen to the trainer chances are it is because of the trainer being unskilled to the point where they can’t just can’t handle them.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/367023/48982

Perhaps I misworded myself

I meant that Badges run in coorelation with the trainer's skill
To where Badges are an example of the Trainer's skill

So only two Badges shows less skill from someone with 7 Badges
So essentially, higher level'd Pokemon obey the 7 Badge guy

Cuz the guy with 7 Badges should have the skill to control his Pokemon

You are aware that in order for him to perform some of the stunts he does such as “flight” with the cape he would need to be moving very fast based off what his “build” is like.

Depends on how realistic you wanna take it

Cuz I'm far more inclined to believe that a cape can't realistically lift a moderately overweight plumber off the ground, no matter how fast he runs


I am, however, more inclined to believe that the magic cape will lift Mario into the air at a set speed
A speed that isn't really all that fast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npro4-XOZIU


Judging from how quickly he's running past your average bush, he's really not all that fast
Probably within human speed

Why do you think they aren’t equal to a RL bullet? Mario and Luigi are characters who clearly defy the normal human limits already with things like there wall jump/jumps/super strength in general.

The fact that the Bullet Bills are moving slow in relation to everything around them makes me think they aren't that fast

The only real comparison they have with real life bullets is by name and the *BOOM* sound they make upon firing

The only instance you really see Bullet Bills being fast are in uncanon games, like Mario Kart or Brawl (SSE), unless I'm mistaken


Considering how Mario can stay afloat by wagging a racoon tail, I see no problem with Bullet Bills traveling at the speed they do in the canon games.

And it’s not like the Mario games are the only ones who “slow down” game play for what they are doing for the “players sake,” I mean Sonic does it as well with things like bullets from various foes.

Because it is pretty much stated that Sonic is moving at blurring speeds as a character

His true speed is hindered in gameplay due to obvious reasons

Same reason why Samus' is moving much slower in gameplay when she's to be moving at crazy speeds
She has abilities that make her travel at insane speeds, but gameplay restricts it


I don't see where it says that Mario/Luigi can run at crazy speeds

Which is where I see "super-human speed" as an assumption

I mean characters like Wario show off super speed a lot as well (the guy can move fast enough to run across water).

You mean this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz9Rjg1j5KI
(about 2:40)

Cuz he's only able to do that via a machine that spits him out at a speed fast enough to do that

Unless I'm mistaken with the game or instance

Well its more than just bullets, like I said before Luigi also gains enough speed to run up walls, achieve “flight,” oh and both of the brothers have been seen outrunning battleships that are starting to take off in general if given a chance (SMB3 where they get on the battleships in general).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfXNCQd3Po

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s96HlADfsnM&feature=related

He's kinda runnin' towards the airship that's headed for his direction, so he didn't really outspeed it

Just timed his jump right

They also only run up walls via those gooey triangle things
For all we know, they have sticky stuff to allow that

 

[_clinton]

Well is it possible to play an ocarina while moving? Because it so, Yink can put on the bunny hood and begin running to begin playing the ocarina to slow down time.

Actually saying Yink has to run away just to tie makes Luigi win actually. Plus I don’t see how Yink could run away from him in the 1st place, I’m pretty sure Luigi is packing more than “30 or so MPH” in his movement. Because I have been listing a certain number of events that show off how Luigi is a by far better athlete than Yink is as well already.

I mean if you some still disagree than please show me something some actual good things Yink can do with his “speed.”

Link can’t even outrun a normal horse, what chance does he have at dealing with the Mario brothers who show off super human athletic ability and so on in their games?

Oh and none of the characters have something like “unlimited endurance,” after all every character in this thing does have something like a “health bar.”

you don't have to be a complete jerk when addressing others.

I certainly don’t think I have been jerk just by saying over and over again that I don’t agree with you guys on a lot of things and then actually backing my reasons for why. After all, I have yet to do things such as “name calling” unlike some other users in these forms.

Of course the funny thing about one of the replies recently is that a certain poster for the Link side pretty much was responding to me and missed or avoided on purpose responding to a point for something I said already, but whatever.

As for Epona, I think she's allowed. She's essentially a vehicle, so I don't see why she wouldn't be allowed. I mean, don't Luigi and Mario get to use tons of tools that are living? Like Starman, Mushrooms, etc. Unless you want to give all those up of course.

TP Link gets a ton of tools that are “living” as well (gale boomerang) but you don’t see me saying he can’t use them. Hell the master sword itself has a will of its own even as some canon info as shown. Yink’s masks for MM also contain “spirits” in them as well, which is also shown in the canon, but you don’t see me saying he shouldn’t be able to use them unless I feel like pointing out how flawed certain people’s views are IMO on the outside help rule (as I have done before).

Epona is clearly a bit more different than tools like the master sword, mushrooms and such in that she is a sentient life form that clearly has no “connection” of any sort to Link other than being loyal to him, it’d be like Luigi getting help from Mario (and even then they have a better “connection” than Link and that horse) and I know no one is going to do that.

I mean to compare some more with an outside source, Epona doesn’t even have a role such as a thing like Rush does from Mega Man in several of the games:

I mean please show me a SANE (^_^) picture of Link using Epona as an armor of some sort or such or at least some thing that proves a bond like “Mega Man and Rush” (or like some other things).

These facts BTW are also some other reasons for why Lucas should have his max power other than the fact that it becomes his, he’s clearly truly “linked” to it in the 1st place as the game shows.

So, to sum up the main thing at least: The fact is Link would be hurt a lot more than others like the Mario brothers if we went 100% in the “outside” help ban (in fact said list really says “ha ha” to Ganondorf and Ike and any theories about how you guys seem to think they could take god attacks that aren’t from their own gods no matter how ridiculous that sounds IMO), but we aren’t from what I see.

As for Luigi's fire/ice balls, I'm pretty sure they have less range than Yink's arrows.

Well if by less range you would mean they are more ground based, than sure they have less range, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t matter much for Yink.

I’m also pretty sure they have a better rate of fire compared to the arrows (which as far as magic goes has a big cool down) and I’m also pretty sure that they aren’t the only projectile that Luigi has that could **** Yink from a distance.

The reason Cyrus uses the Red Chain is because Dialga/Palkia/Giratina's power cannot be harnessed if caught in a Poke Ball. It just can't, which is why the Red Chain part of the story.

Oh boy:
-The red chain is made from the three lake psychics who according to the canon had the power to balance those two’s powers in the 1st place (of course in this case for Platinum it shows that it could only do it to one of them at a time), so of course it will control them like them, it is made from their “tears” or something like that (it is never explained how he extracted the gems from them, he just did ^_^).
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red_Chain#Bag_description
Feel free and check out something that was taken out of the game (item use of the red chain).

-Capturing a pokemon in a pokeball does nothing to actually truly control them as you can see from what happens if you have a pokemon who doesn’t want to obey you from the canon (you are not experienced enough or something like that), so of course the power would be “restricted” if you captured them in a pokeball, they don’t have to listen to you if they don’t want to outside of it.
So considering how the idea was to make a new world. Yeah.

-Giratina’s not on that list actually for pokemon that are controlled by the chain, if Platinum is the “true” canon version of that game then the thing actually just dragged the other two dragons into its world to prevent them from ****ing up his world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7RFf7CKUHo&feature=related
Cyntheia says at around 8:43 that the pokemon of the lake chances are can’t control Giratina.

-And for saying that the PT can’t use their power still, I’d like to know why they still have these moves (that only they can use) before and after the battle and such:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Spacial_Rend
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Roar_of_Time_(move)

It would still make complete sense

I'm of the idea that it limits the certain abilities Pokemon posses, like Machamp moving mountains or Garchomp flying at intense speeds

So, tell me what happens when a trainer and so on end up seeing a wild pokemon that could **** them up such as a Machamp and such? Or explain how there is nothing different about them when taken out of the pokeball from when you caught them for the 1st time.

As far as PokeCenters, I don't really see how relevent healing is

The idea that the balls “pacify” them in some way in order to try and prevent a break out when you 1st meet a wild one is only backed up more when they keep having more positive experiences in the balls.

Perhaps I misworded myself

Well when you said that the reason they listen is because the things are just so called “respecting” the trainer more I certainly would agree with that, after all that is why I posted proof that the trainer having badges is a “physical symbol” of his growth from when he started his journey.

Cuz I'm far more inclined to believe that a cape can't realistically lift a moderately overweight plumber off the ground, no matter how fast he runs

Technically based off how Mario uses the cape, he more or less just does the jump himself while holding out the magic cape and then just “glides” with it somehow based off how it is built, I mean Mario is known for his jumping you know.

Judging from how quickly he's running past your average bush, he's really not all that fast
Probably within human speed

Right sense others have been using their in game times to make a point, I think I will as well, So in that video he clears large open battlefields filed with Bowser’s troops in about 40 seconds for the 1st level, several huge mountain ranges in 42 seconds, a large mine filled lake in 25 seconds, and completely destroyed a single castle’s defenses in a little over a minute, all on a place called “Yoshi’s Island,” you know that place that is a very large lake/river/mountain filled area and takes a pack of yoshi’s a very large amount of time to explore in their “own game.” However, Mario can destroy Bowser’s 1st defenses and so on just before his “true game starts” in the rest of Dinosaur Land.

Plus those times were not as good compared to that that other video that is around, what is up with that and how you didn’t use that one? I don’t see any issue with that TAS that I posted.

The fact that the Bullet Bills are moving slow in relation to everything around them makes me think they aren't that fast

The only real comparison they have with real life bullets is by name and the *BOOM* sound they make upon firing

Oh and the “firing” part is also a thing they have in comparison to the real life stuff, don’t forget that. They are worthless by themselves.

Oh and while Bowser may be known for his dark magic, the only thing that seems magical about bullet bills is that they are “alive” and can seek out their targets (oh and they can also wield weapons, like other “guns” as well, just thought I’d say that). The fact that they clearly need to be fired from something that seems completely normal as well in order to start moving themselves clearly shows that only they are “magic based” at all.

Considering how Mario can stay afloat by wagging a racoon tail, I see no problem with Bullet Bills traveling at the speed they do in the canon games.

Already brought up the magic thing So:

Bowser btw clearly has more than just bullet bills that he can fire out of his cannons, just thought I’d remind you about that, of course a magic bullet flying at high speeds seeking out its targets seems a bit better IMO than “normal” stuff that you could fire out, but Bowser clearly still has the normal stuff in case of using it.

Oh and I still don’t think they are that slow moving in relation to everything around them, after all they are one of the fastest Mario enemy pretty much in the games from what I saw you say as well.

I don't see where it says that Mario/Luigi can run at crazy speeds

Which is where I see "super-human speed" as an assumption

Mario and Luigi’s abilities aren’t talked about at all that much when it comes to their abilities, I mean I’d still like to know why a “fire flower” works the way it does other than just “because” really.

I mean I’ve never seen any official statement from Nintendo saying that Mario has super strength; I’m just looking at all of the clear facts that “show it off” on him. And I’m doing the same thing when it comes to talking about his speed.

The guys clear super large chucks of land in only a few seconds which would take humans if they were “normal” more than a few days and such to do. I mean how fast do you think you would get through Yoshi’s Island?

Cuz he's only able to do that via a machine that spits him out at a speed fast enough to do that

Unless I'm mistaken with the game or instance

That is just how Wario Land Shake it did Wario’s super speed, by using a machine, and you really have to love how those machines always appear whenever you need one and how the foes are never able to use one.

I also love how Wario Land 4 didn’t make Wario have to use a machine to start up his super speed as well, he just needed a small amount of space. (Of course in Wario Land 4, Wario stopped after hitting one of those “strong” blocks, and his ground pound stopped in the same way, and so on unlike with Wario Land Shake it, so it is clear that they made the dash more powerful but limited it’s use on purpose)

I mean it is clearly a case of a “fence” put into a game like in some cases with Metroid and how Samus loses her parts (you know, the game programmer’s way of saying you can only use the abilities when they want you to).

I mean you also have to love how Mario always finds a bee suit, metal block, and so on when he needs one as well huh for games like SMG/64? Of course do I really have to explain the fact that it is a limit that is put in on purpose in a lot of things when really Mario has been seen to be able to hold magic items just fine?

(How about that for ****ed up stuff? ^_^)

He's kinda runnin' towards the airship that's headed for his direction, so he didn't really outspeed it

Ok, my bad (shows you when I last played SMB3 I guess) still the time he takes to destroy a huge battle ship is also impressive.

They also only run up walls via those gooey triangle things
For all we know, they have sticky stuff to allow that

They also run up walls in SM64 and SMG w/o those triangle things (which btw Yoshi can’t run up, you know one of the things that isn’t anywhere near as fast as Mario/Luigi but are pretty much a “horse and such” for the Mario Universe a lot?)

Of course wall jumping would also require some fancy foot work as well, but whatever.

 

[ElPanandero]

@Clinton
Meh, I guess Luigi might win this one. Though by unlimited endurance, I meant he has the ability to run indefinitely, not because of a health bar, but because if you really want to you can run through hyrule field through an infinite number of sun cycle without ever stopping, shocasing the fact that link never gets tired of running.

And to counter your last quote. Was Lugig ever in SM64? (Although if Mario can do it Lugi probably can too...but I vaguely recall someone egtting mad the Lucas didnt have certain powers because they were not explicitly shown through in game battles [Though that may have been you, was it?]). And Galaxy has serveral planets with varying gravity, so wall running in that may be differet (and again, does luigi actually do it in Galaxy?)

 

[Samochan]

Even if pokeballs restrict powers, it doesn't make pokes unable to perform said powers. Or have you guys already forgotten the god in pokemon world, Arceus, whom even after capturing can create a pokemon out of nothingness, being the god of creationism? >_> Full power might be full power yes, but some power is better than no power at all. It certainly says they cannot use their full powers, but at the same time it means they retain some of their powers, tho cannot use it to full extent. Spacial rend and roar of time distort space/time on themselves. Besides what the galactics have researched is fairly vague and open for interpretation, it certainly hasn't been mentioned anywhere else in the series while otherwise capturing the pokemon has been said to bring out their full potential, honing their skills and whatever. Wild pokemon look at those happy captured pokemon enviously (as said by the footprint reader right to pastoria city). And really, if captured pokemon are needed so one can defend against wild ones, it would be unlogical for the captured ones to be the weaker ones no? Besides no wild pokemon has ever reached lv.100, even legendaries haven't gone as high as 70 (sans arceus and he's 80's).

 

[PowerBomb]

Level 99 Magikarp

Samochan, Arceus can't just create stuff whenever. It needs the Shinto Ruins to actually do something.

And maybe it just pertains to Dialga/Palkia since they have powers that can affect such a massive scale.

Dialga used Roar of Time! MASSIVE DAMAGE, YET THE OVERWORLD IS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED
Palkia used Spacial Rend! MASSIVE DAMAGE, YET THE OVERWORLD IS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED

Yeah, I had to.

Oh boy:

-_-

-The red chain is made from the three lake psychics who according to the canon had the power to balance those two’s powers in the 1st place (of course in this case for Platinum it shows that it could only do it to one of them at a time), so of course it will control them like them, it is made from their “tears” or something like that (it is never explained how he extracted the gems from them, he just did ^_^).
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...ag_description
Feel free and check out something that was taken out of the game (item use of the red chain).

Red Chain the ITEM in your BAG is not canon. At all. In any way possible. Balance the two? What? I read that description, it just states Cyrus can control them.

-Capturing a pokemon in a pokeball does nothing to actually truly control them as you can see from what happens if you have a pokemon who doesn’t want to obey you from the canon (you are not experienced enough or something like that), so of course the power would be “restricted” if you captured them in a pokeball, they don’t have to listen to you if they don’t want to outside of it.
So considering how the idea was to make a new world. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know where you're going with this. Red Chain -> control Dialga/Palkia -> etc

-Giratina’s not on that list actually for pokemon that are controlled by the chain, if Platinum is the “true” canon version of that game then the thing actually just dragged the other two dragons into its world to prevent them from ****ing up his world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7RFf...eature=related
Cyntheia says at around 8:43 that the pokemon of the lake chances are can’t control Giratina.

Yeah, didn't think of that. Giratina is exempt from the Red Chain/other random junk involving the lake trio.

-And for saying that the PT can’t use their power still, I’d like to know why they still have these moves (that only they can use) before and after the battle and such:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Spacial_Rend
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...ime_(move)

Because they have no huge affect on Time/Space. Apparently, the Poke Balls take away the majority of their power or something.

 

[Samochan]

And yet, Gardevoir and things are specifically said to protect THEIR TRAINERS with massive shows of power, like black holes. >_>

Powerbomb, this vid also disagrees with you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3dEmhd3DEU

The sinjoh ruin shrine was built to show respect to Arceus, where people used to celebrace it's might. It certainly reacts to Arceus powers yes, but it isn't notified to amplify it in any way. Arceus doesn't need to amplify it's powers lol, having said to create the whole pokemon region, lake guardians and space/time/antimatter deities by itself.

"Arceus, having shaped the world, is said to show you a glimpse of it's true power. The power of possibly making life appear out of nothing..."

The ruins are just there as a stage. It would be fairly stupid to not have a place for such an event. <_<

I also wonder if Arceus has something to do with pokemon breeding, cause no one has ever seen those eggs appear...

 

[_clinton]

Meh, I guess Luigi might win this one. Though by unlimited endurance, I meant he has the ability to run indefinitely, not because of a health bar, but because if you really want to you can run through hyrule field through an infinite number of sun cycle without ever stopping, shocasing the fact that link never gets tired of running.

Its just that a health bar is a clear indication that a character has a limit, and running is clearly linked to health in several ways!

Link (and Luigi btw) being able to run for an infinite amount of time is more of a game mech. than anything else (as in it would be a very large and annoying inconvenience for Link to need to take a break and such while a player is playing, don't you think?), Link doesn't need to sleep while you are playing as him as well. So are you going to say that Link doesn't need sleep now, even though the guy is clearly shown to be sleeping at the start of OoT?

**** Luigi can run for an infinite amount of time as you are playing him as well, but you don't see me saying something like "unlimited run" time.

And to counter your last quote. Was Lugig ever in SM64?

SM64DS, Luigi doesn't wall jump in it. So I'm talking about SMG, which in that game he can wall jump.

Of course Luigi’s game in SMG has him playing 2nd banana to himself, so how serious it is has some question (but to be fair SM64DS’ up for question as well for how serious it is). Still there is some story for his game (Peach keeps on sending letters to Mario even though Luigi is the one going after her).

(Although if Mario can do it Lugi probably can too...but I vaguely recall someone egtting mad the Lucas didnt have certain powers because they were not explicitly shown through in game battles [Though that may have been you, was it?]). And Galaxy has serveral planets with varying gravity, so wall running in that may be differet (and again, does luigi actually do it in Galaxy?)

The gravity varies in SMG I’ll admit, but when it varies you can easily tell how it does. There are several places in the game where you see them run up walls and the gravity would have been clearly on the ground where it started.

Oh and Mother 3 clearly gives Lucas the powers from watching the game, and some people in this thread have even said that one of the reasons why they don’t want to give Lucas his powers is because it would make him too powerful (which is stupid as far as reasons go).

Personally another issue out there is that I really don’t see why Lucas can’t use things like PK Freeze when the guy shows off that he has the power to create in general, so what would be so hard about “creating” ice? Oh and the fact that Lucas shows off a ton of extra powers that he doesn’t use in battle is another issue.

It certainly says they cannot use their full powers, but at the same time it means they retain some of their powers, tho cannot use it to full extent.

Am I the only one who can see the issue with the pokeballs so called “restricting” their powers? I mean they never give any reason for why they can’t use them fully.

But considering how the red chain makes “two certain” pokemon into slaves; which is far different from what a pokeball does in that they clearly still have free will in them, because they can choose not to obey their trainer as the game can clearly show.

That is the reason for why I feel Cyrus needed the red chain, because that made them his slave due to how the chain is made from the power of three beings who could control Palkia and Dialga in the 1st place!

I mean the guy gives you a master ball! He clearly would have had no issue with capturing them if he needed to, but they certainly wouldn’t have to listen to him bark his orders about making a new world for him!

Besides no wild pokemon has ever reached lv.100, even legendaries haven't gone as high as 70 (sans arceus and he's 80's).

Well the only legit Arceus that you could get is is at level 100 IIRC, but that is another issue with level that I have, the pokemon vary for when you can fight them at it even for the same “games” pretty much. Anyone else enjoy knowing that certain Pidgey that you can find at level 50 or so happen to be able to put up a fight vs. certain Palkia and Dialga that you could find at level 47?
So, how about the many gym battles? Brock seems a lot better in generation 2 than he does in generation 1 doesn’t he? (what with how the wild pokemon are still at the same levels in those areas) **** and rematches with them in the various games are just funny as well.

Arceus can't just create stuff whenever. It needs the Shinto Ruins to actually do something.

So, do you know why things like Mount Olympus and so on were important to the Greek Gods?

Just saying, there might be some reason for why Arceus used the Shinto Ruins to create a god pokemon, sort of like how MO was the place where the GGs ate at and such.

But whatever, Zeus married his sister.

Dialga used Roar of Time! MASSIVE DAMAGE, YET THE OVERWORLD IS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED
Palkia used Spacial Rend! MASSIVE DAMAGE, YET THE OVERWORLD IS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED

Well those things only say they affect a “small area” according to the description in them.

Red Chain the ITEM in your BAG is not canon. At all. In any way possible. Balance the two? What? I read that description, it just states Cyrus can control them.

Well this is what it says actually:

A mythical chain that is said to link the legendary Pokémon that created the Sinnoh region.
It is said that the Red Chain summons Dialga and Palkia when it is put together.

What is not canon about that info? (as in I’m aware that you the player never use it, but the info it gives anyway is spot on) Palkia and Dialga are summoned when it is put together in a certain spot, the chain is linked to the pokemon that created said region.

The chain is made out of the three lake psychics, who had the power to control Palkia and Dialga, so of course the chain will control them.

Yeah, I don't know where you're going with this. Red Chain -> control Dialga/Palkia -> etc

Yeah, and it controls them because it is made from the three lake psychics, who could already control them.

Pokeballs give no such plus, so even in them Dialga/Palkia could rebel if they wanted to and just **** Cyrus for trying to use them to create his own world.

Because they have no huge affect on Time/Space. Apparently, the Poke Balls take away the majority of their power or something.

Yet, when you are fighting them, they use that power just fine even before being shoved into a pokeball.

And yet, Gardevoir and things are specifically said to protect THEIR TRAINERS with massive shows of power, like black holes. >_>

Powerbomb, this vid also disagrees with you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3dEmhd3DEU

Man, that video brings up a funny point that isn’t related to this thread at all. I really have to wonder how ****ed up it would be for a normal person to see a 10 year old trainer walking around with god! (or some of those other pokemon that are bigger than a house).

Of course that video also proves a point about teleport and how it can be used anywhere and bring you anywhere, how about that? (in regards to the abra)

Also that video says that god has accepted the PT as a trainer (what with how the trainers you keep playing as happen to be pure of heart and such or something), but even then god only shows off a little of its power (and chances are it would leave if it didn't want to be with the trainer).

 

[ElPanandero]

What about the Stone mask hiding + Surprise attack method? Was that already debunked?

oh and I didn't say the level 100 Arceses thing, it may have been Samo...just saying.

 

[_clinton]

What about the Stone mask hiding + Surprise attack method? Was that already debunked?

oh and I didn't say the level 100 Arceses thing, it may have been Samo...just saying.

Yeah it was Samo, I just didn't catch it like I did with another mistake when replying. (because when I'm replying I break up the posts and paste the names of those to who I'm replying to, it is easy to make a mistake in that)

Oh and what would stop Luigi from doing the same method that you are saying Yink could use? (plus in the 1st place I've already said that turning invisible wouldn't work with either of these fighters)

 

[ElPanandero]

Luigi can turn invisible? Huh, you learn something new everyday.

I forget, can Yink use Lens of truth (to reveal invisi -Luigi [assuming we give it that function]) whil eusing stone mask, because in that case, Yink would have the advantage.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Luigi can turn invisible? Huh, you learn something new everyday.

I forget, can Yink use Lens of truth (to reveal invisi -Luigi [assuming we give it that function]) whil eusing stone mask, because in that case, Yink would have the advantage.

Yes, Link can.

 

[ElPanandero]

Well if that's the case.
Zelda wiki says this:

The Lens of Truth is a recurring item in the Legend of Zelda series. It is a Sheikah-crafted, magical looking glass that can see through any illusion, such as hidden doors, holes and other things. Its function is similar to that of the Cross in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link; however, unlike the Cross, the Lens of Truth will drain the user of magic power.

So with the lens of truth, even if Luigi was invisible at the same time Yink could see him and get to him.

 

[_clinton]

Luigi can turn invisible? Huh, you learn something new everyday.

Yes, I've said it like 5 times so far. It's from SM64DS

I also have said that Luigi can see foes that also turn invisible (Boos for starters).

How is Yink's stuff going to be any different?

 

[ElPanandero]

My apologies, You do post a lot at once, it's easy to miss some stuff.

Anyway. The boos turn translucent, I don't recall anytime them begin considered "invisible" especially in the same regard as a mask that makes Yink invisible to the point where have no idea he's there (unless there gereudo, which is more of a game mechanic).

 

[_clinton]

My apologies, You do post a lot at once, it's easy to miss some stuff.

Fair enough I guess.

Anyway. The boos turn translucent, I don't recall anytime them begin considered "invisible"

Actually what the term for what Nintendo calls the Boos ability varies (“transparent” is what PM and SMG use for it, which I don’t really have to say anything about that I guess for various reasons), mostly because the “ability” they have in the 1st place allows you to move through walls and some other things like metal bars which IMO makes it a hell of a lot better than just only turning invisible but whatever, I don’t really think it matters much except for the fact that it will allow Luigi a chance to maybe be able to sneak up on Yink better when it comes down to it, but sense I’m in the view that both characters will make the abilities main selling point worthless in some way, I don’t care about that.

But to prove a different point, for example the Vanish cap:
Makes Mario “disappear” according to SM64:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MjrHeX2uo4

Guess what Luigi’s special ability in SM64DS is based off of?

Of course there is also a sign in the court yard where the boos hang out in SM64 (it is located right by another sign that tells you about the dive attack and the message gets repeated in the house in general) that says they do fade away when you look at them and when you turn your back to them they reappear to try and attack your back. Which pretty much also confirms the idea that all boos turn invisible in case you needed some sort of proof.

Of course the game also says that Luigi can do it with another sign in that place.

especially in the same regard as a mask that makes Yink invisible to the point where have no idea he's there (unless there gereudo, which is more of a game mechanic).

Oh, how is it a game mechanic? Are you going to pull something like the Metroid side as done with Samus’ speed booster now and just say BS when the game clearly doesn’t agree with what a small amount of writing says 100%?

It is hardly just one or two foes that can see you when you have that mask on, there are several foes that can. Plus they (at least in the case of the pirates) say they can see through the mask, which means they know you are wearing the mask to try and hide! Such a case like that clearly shows that it isn’t a “mistake” for why they see you, the people who made the game put a limit on the ability.

Which btw as far as “vanishing” acts go, a sign for SM64DS (located at the start of the boo mansion level, just run up to the front door pretty much) says that the vanishing power you get is even able to confuse the big boo (you know a powerful boo). So as far as vanishing acts go, there are clearly some “grades” of them in the Mario series case, and the good guys have access to a nice high level one.

Of course, I’m saying that it still doesn’t really matter, because I’m aware of the fact that the lens of truth works on high level spooks as well (Bongo Bongo from OoT).

But hey, keep on saying the Mario series is worse than the Zelda examples if you want, I’ve only seen Mario and Luigi move through walls with theirs on top of just disappearing, when has Links?

Or you can avoid this conflict for this part anyway and just say what I’m saying and say they are equal in it for what matters in the ability people, because we both know they have better things than just “invisibility” as an option, right?

Oh and as far as forms go, Zora and Deku are out 100% when fighting with Luigi. Even though Deku Link can fly to a point if he launches off in a flower (Luigi has other fire weapons for one/jumps "good" for two, plus I don't see how that would help for when he has to land anyway as well), which I wouldn't care about this thing because "every" time you need a flower in MM, the game gives you one!

A fire flower would destroy Link in those forms according to Majora's Mask (oh and TP with things like the Zora Armor which makes that a real issue to wear sometimes).

Anyway to shed light into how good Yink's swordman ship is (besides the fact that you can ace a sword school's test); I'd like to bring up Dark Link and how that guy is just Link's "shadow" as far as OoT bosses go. That Link could do things like jump on your sword, so just saying that Link's swordplay is a bit better than what the game's give you IMO.

Now, as far as jumping on dangerous things go (such as working saw blades), Luigi has done it with things like the spin jump in MW and so on (and I mean so on), and his rock hard fists do hold up on things like "spiny" spikes and such besides just allowing him to break down walls (of course one must wonder what would win in such a case of something like hammer vs. sword?)

So I still don't think Yink has a snowball's chance in hell vs. Luigi, but I am saying that as far as normal humans who have been powered up by something or such go; he is pretty good.

 

[ElPanandero]

Alright While in the straight up fight, Luigi would win, could you give an example of when Luigi could see the boos when they are invisible, because even if they do become invisible (which I'm still not convinced is complete invisibility) it happens when Luigi looks at them, where does it show that Luigi can see (or interact with them) while they are in "invisible" mode.

And by game mechanic, I meant they limit the potential of the invisibility by having higher level enemies and gerudos see you, so you can't just coast through the game invisible. In theory the mask tself should sheild you from anyone's view.

 

[Samochan]

Wait wat?

Level 100 Arceus is prolly some event arceus, the one you can get from Spear Pillar is the highest lv. wild pokemon you can find from the games.

 

[the king of murder]

I know this is kinda irrelevant, but isn't Magikarp the highest level wild Pokemon? In Platinium you can catch a Lv 100 Magikarp with Super Rod.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I say Luigi should win this.

Also, do any of you guys know when the next E3 is?

 

[ElPanandero]

Sometime in June, I believe.

And I vote for a draw (unless Clinton can present material that proves Luigi can see Boos when they are invisible, or can see Invisi-link within the fight)

 

[_clinton]

Alright While in the straight up fight, Luigi would win, could you give an example of when Luigi could see the boos when they are invisible, because even if they do become invisible (which I'm still not convinced is complete invisibility) it happens when Luigi looks at them, where does it show that Luigi can see (or interact with them) while they are in "invisible" mode.

So if one example is all I need I most certainly have that:
1. Super Mario World-The big boo optional boss fights that are in the ghost houses (you can totally what I’m talking about if you look in those Mario World speed run videos that have been posted), they clearly try and sneak up on Luigi even when he is looking at them. Hell several ghosts aren’t “shy” in general; they also can’t be hurt unless they are trying to fight as well I might add, because that is when they materialize.

Plus in general the bloody things hunt in packs, so would be adventures can only focus on so many at a time when you think about it.

Oh and they do hunt from the looks of it, ever see what their mouths really look like when they aren't trying to be "cute" looking with them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enId2ZsgbJs&feature=related

Lady Bow telling her butler off at 1:58-2:02 is proof that Boos are not to be ****ed with IMO, of course for some reason Boos also have “nutritional value” according to the game but whatever.

And by game mechanic, I meant they limit the potential of the invisibility

You see, the thing you just listed right there is an example of a justified game mechanic, do I really have to keep bringing up the fact that game mechanics aren’t all bad? Health is a game mechanic as well you know (yes I’m using this example again, because it is a perfect one), are you going to try and tell me that Link can never “die” even though you agreed (or at least haven’t responded to my reply about it) with me a while back that Link doesn’t have unlimited stamina when it comes to things like “running” away because he clearly has a health bar in his game?

I mean Link can see through invisible enemies as well with the lens of truth, which shows a limit to their power, so why on earth do you not think that some foes could develop something like that as well when several said foes clearly have the ability to use magic and such in the Zelda games to work on Link?

I know this is kinda irrelevant, but isn't Magikarp the highest level wild Pokemon? In Platinium you can catch a Lv 100 Magikarp with Super Rod.

So, do I really have to keep saying why the concept of “level” in pokemon is a useless one when there are examples like that?

I mean **** the idea of proper training already comes from things like EVs, the idea of things like “potential” comes from IVs, why the **** does “level” really matter?

Or at least some baseless number that could mean pretty much anything like “level 100,” it doesn’t make sense to find level 100 magikarp (yeah now I’m going to stop bringing up the level 50 pidgey because of this) that could pretty much beat god pokemon and such because of some random numbers that really don’t mean **** in the long run.

I say Luigi should win this.

I say some of the match ups like:
-Falcon vs. Diddy/Ike
-Yoshi vs. Pikachu/Pichu
-Bowser vs. Ike
-Sonic vs. Ike/Ganondorf/Mewtwo
-Mario vs. Kirby/Samus/Ganondorf
-Pit vs. Ike
-PT vs. Samus/Peach
-Zamus vs. Link/Roy
-Peach vs. Zelda
-Luigi vs. Ganondorf/Samus
-Olimar vs. Pikachu/Pichu
-MK vs. Tink
-Ness vs. Peach/Samus
-Lucas vs. MK/Samus/Bowser
-Wario vs. Pikachu/Diddy/DK
-Snake vs. Tink
-Fox vs. Ike

Still need to change (and a few others, but I’m sort of lazy still to post them) but whatever.

And I vote for a draw (unless Clinton can present material that proves Luigi can see Boos when they are invisible, or can see Invisi-link within the fight)

You know, technically Luigi is faster than Yink by far, better off up close and far away because he doesn’t have to use a bow string for long rang combat, and also can get close w/o having to worry about being hit because of what his vanish powers do in the 1st place (yeah, sense boos can only be hurt when they are trying to attack, I’m going to say the same for Luigi, even said ghost cap sort of backs it up because Luigi is pretty much 100% immune to damage when using it).

 

[PowerBomb]

I know this is kinda irrelevant, but isn't Magikarp the highest level wild Pokemon? In Platinium you can catch a Lv 100 Magikarp with Super Rod.

Yep. I think it was level 99 though.

 

[ElPanandero]

Meh, fine give Luigi the win.

Though, the Lens of truth isn't a common weapon. It givs the user the power to see through illusions, but this power belonged to the shekiah, who made the lens, and they were lost. I would not go as far as to say making something akin to the lens of truth would be as easy as you make it seem. The lens isn't a matter o having the ability to cast magic or not. It's the fact that it's lost Shekiah tehcnology.

 

[PowerBomb]

Meh, fine give Luigi the win.

Though, the Lens of truth isn't a common weapon. It givs the user the power to see through illusions, but this power belonged to the shekiah, who made the lens, and they were lost. I would not go as far as to say making something akin to the lens of truth would be as easy as you make it seem. The lens isn't a matter o having the ability to cast magic or not. It's the fact that it's lost Shekiah tehcnology.

Wouldn't it be lost Sheikah magic?

 

[ElPanandero]

Meh, I'm a bad speller. I assume you understood my point though.