Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[PowerBomb]

And Pichu is going to let Yoshi eat it? >_>

No.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Skills cannot be "stolen"... Or if you mean the Star Rod, likely Bowser can use it again after Ike has attacked. And since when does Bowser steal stuff?

 

[PowerBomb]

Skills cannot be "stolen"... Or if you mean the Star Rod, likely Bowser can use it again after Ike has attacked. And since when does Bowser steal stuff?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Has he really stolen equipment and the like then?? O_O

 

[justaway12]

And Pichu is going to let Yoshi eat it? >_>

No.

Yoshi's gravitational powers also makes enemies trip.

@Diddy: No, but we allow stuff like that.

 

[JOE!]

ok, 2 things to consider here, since they are both invulnerable:

is ike still invuln without his sword?

is bowser still invul if he isnt holding the star-rod?

 

[PowerBomb]

@ both: No, I think.

Yoshi's gravitational powers also makes enemies trip.

@Diddy: No, but we allow stuff like that.

And Pichu is going to lay there, right?

 

[justaway12]

If Pichu does something, he makes her trip.

Again I don't know the mechanics of it yet, I'll get more info tommorow.

 

[missingnomaster]

What health system is Yoshi using?

Pichu might not even have to move..

 

[Crystanium]

Skills cannot be "stolen"... Or if you mean the Star Rod, likely Bowser can use it again after Ike has attacked. And since when does Bowser steal stuff?

Bowser "stole" Princess Peach a number of times. All right, I mean "captured." Bowser did steal the Star Rod, I think. Anyway, if you have hands, and if the items can be taken from someone's grip, then stealing is possible. Sonic defeated Bowser, because he stole the Star Rod from Bowser, so Bowser was unable to become invincible.

 

[missingnomaster]

I really don't think Sonic would be strong enough to take the Star Rod from Bowser, but after going Super Sonic, he should be able to combo Bowser to keep him from using the Star Rod.

Can't really say any more on the current matchup until my question in my other post is answered.

 

[REL38]

Allowed

Wishing (whether with the use of a item or not, wishing is allowed).


Restrictions

Wishing to win (while wishing is allowed, wishing to win is simply banned).

Bowser can turn invincible via the Star Rod.
Good.

Ike can't be hurt by anything that's not blessed by Ahsera or Yuna or w/e.

By wishing, can't Bowser simply wish, "I wish to be able to hurt Ike!"
It really seems like it'll work.
Srsly.

EDIT:
I'm 100% sure it'll work.

 

[Ekul]

Could he actually do that? What are the extent of the wishes? "Overcome the power of a god" may be a little beyond his reach. After all, if he could power himself that high, why didn't he do it in the game and overcome Mario?

 

[REL38]

Could he actually do that? What are the extent of the wishes? "Overcome the power of a god" may be a little beyond his reach. After all, if he could power himself that high, why didn't he do it in the game and overcome Mario?

It grants any wish.
I'm positive it'd work.

As to why he didn't do it in-game, you'd have absolutely no chance of winning if he wished for the apocalypse on Mario.

Invincibility was the route that was taken.

 

[missingnomaster]

I still think we are only giving him what he did with it in game to avoid complications.

 

[REL38]

I still think we are only giving him what he did with it in game to avoid complications.

Which was something I pointed out when Raizen first made the change in rules.
Verification would be nice.


If Bowser is given full usage of the Star Rod.
Bowser Wins

If Bowser is given the limited Star Rod.
Tie.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Ike will destroy Bowser. No chance of Bowser using anything he has unless it's Monster Bowser, (his huge size). Bowser takes a while to use his Star Rod, he can use it fast to attack or heal himself. But Ike won't let him. Is the rules turn base BTW? †

 

[REL38]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPYYR78nzao&feature=PlayList&p=F5899EBFB7C9459C&index=79

@3:00

It only takes Bowser 5 seconds to turn invincible.

I don't think Ike can reach Bowser in that time frame.

Especially considering he can start out in his Koopa Clown and fly away while turning invincible.

 

[Crystanium]

Let's not forget the Stop Watch, which takes 4 seconds, 419 milliseconds, as noted in the Bowser vs. Sonic match-up.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Only if Bowser is too far when he's fighting Ike can he use his items. Even when fighting Ike, his Ragnell Wave should stop Bowser if he's too far for a normal attack. †

 

[BSP]

Bowser can turn invincible via the Star Rod.
Good.

Ike can't be hurt by anything that's not blessed by Ahsera or Yuna or w/e.

By wishing, can't Bowser simply wish, "I wish to be able to hurt Ike!"
It really seems like it'll work.
Srsly.

EDIT:
I'm 100% sure it'll work.

That sounds legit to me.

Does Ike have any attacks faster than the Star Rod or stopwatch? If ike can land a hit, he should be able to prevent item usage.

 

[B!squick]

Dudes. It's Bowser. Auto win.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Taking that Bowser is vurnable to Ike's attacks, and Ike isn't under normal circumstances and they are in good enough reach with each other, Ike will first attack Bowser with Ragnell ranged. Most likely it'll be a double attack.

Bowser may or may not breathe fire back, but it's not like Ike cannot resist that. Then Ike will attack up close, and if Aether activates, most likely Bowser's health has reached to about 40%, if not less.

Stop Watch will be useless on Ike as he's rather fast. And Star Rod can be Disarmed. Seeing as Ike is the attacker here, and Bowser the defender, Bowser will have to use all his healing items he can get.

 

[-Ran]

Can't Bowser just wish for Ike to be put into a Status effect such as being asleep? Even a simple wish as putting Ike into an unbreakable bubble would be sufficient. Just because you're invincible doesn't mean you suddenly don't need to breath. >>

Wishing is too powerful. Lol.

 

[Kuraudo]

Bowser's Star Rod has priority over Ike and his invulnerability. Wishes. They're broken.

 

[_clinton]

For a moment they are linked,

Ah no...It's more than just a moment that they are linked...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/914622/42740

Lydia: Lucas, someone besides yourself removed this needle. The dragon
of darkness is reflected in his soul. You must remove the remaining
needles.

Fligia: I'm sure you already
know this, but the Dragon of Darkness is said to be reflected in
the hearts of those who remove the needles. The strength within
strength, the darkness within darkness and the light within light,
will enter your soul.

The whole bloody reason they can remove the needles in the 1st place is because they are linked to it...and when you do remove the needle...the power that it was guarding enters your soul...that is why Lucas gets more powerful in his PK Love use...and it is clear that the needles are reflected with the users in general because...again...Claus gets PK Love Omega at the same time Lucas does with his (he doesn't have PK Love Omega when you fight him the 2nd time...but the 3rd time...he does have PK Love Omega...how could he have gotten that power if he wasn't linked with the dragon?)

I always thought Magicant was the evil in Ness mind.

Ah no...the evil in Ness' mind is only one part of Magicant

Speed Booster is necessary to acquire one Reserve Tank. When you fly up, the block reappears. It is a Speed Booster icon, which can only be destroyed by using the Speed Booster, either during running or flying. The Work Robots are used as platforms to get the Missile Tank on the other side.

Again…you don’t need the work robots to get that reserve tank…the conveyer belt that you are running on before you reach the end gives you just enough room to activate a shine spark…the reserve tank you are talking about is close to the gravity suit…when the chozo statue takes you to the area…you bomb away the floor…roll into a hidden area in a room…shoot some work robots into a floor…grab a missile expansion…now after that…you set a power bomb off…and from where you are standing…there is enough room from where the chozo statue used to be…to run and build up speed…I’ve done this 2x…I swear I’ll make a video if you don’t try it yourself…it only takes like 30 minutes at the most for me to get to that area in the game (and that is if I’m just screwing around)

So, what's the relevance?

That the speed booster isn’t invincibility…it is just making use of another way to store energy…in this case…extreme speed to the point where you break the sound barrier…

I wasn't aware there was enough room to start up the Speed Booster.

Well…try it out…because not only does he prove several things about the speed booster wrong (invincibility for one thing…he can hurt Samus while she is shine sparking him with his claws…how about that?)

The video I saw, someone did this, and he flew into Draygon, KO'ing him on impact. That's pretty powerful.

I’m aware of what the blue suit glitch is…it just cloaks Samus in a “speed booster” energy when she is running…it sure does make proving the invincibility thing wrong a lot ****ing easier…because a good % of the foes in Super Metroid are able to smack Samus while she is moving still…and even more are immune to the energy type she has stored up…

Oh…and please show me the video of Drayon being killed on impact…because I’ll admit to not doing that and would like to see it (I’m more of a electrocute his *** until he is almost dead…then charge into him type)

I think those are the fact that he can transform and stuff...whatever.

Ok then...it still doesn't remove the fact that he was getting hit by the same type of magic that ****ed the star rod up...and wasn't done by Peach alone...

You have to prove it, that was the only game it glide in, in SMRPG and normal games where she had her parasol, it didn't.
Oh and Yoshi's Story, I think.

Yoshi's story didn't have Peach in it...and you should check again with SMRPG...because she glides in that game using her parasol (when she joins your party for good)

Oh...and she glides in Yoshi's Island DS with it while Yoshi is carting her around...there are even normal foes gliding with parasols in that game (shy guys)

I thought it just made her float in the air for a few seconds. You do mean floatbrella, right?

The point I'm trying to make with the parasol and it's offense/defense skills is that they vary in between games...which proves that the way they really work is just game mechs.

The only things that matter with them is that they "guard", "float", and whatever else the game makers come up with (Yoshi's Island DS for example does have some other traits with it)

Neither does this attack.
http://www.mariowiki.com/images/c/cf/KamekNew2.jpg
But Peach could still defend from it.

That attack still has more meaning behind it than what psychic skills do (the stuff Kamak does is powered by that wand…w/o it I could argue that she is helpless pretty much)

You don't have proof that she can't, if you had just shown she got hurt my a fire wheel, we would have stopped arguing about it, that's just 1 example.

So…why are we still arguing about Peach’s defensive skills when I’ve shown that she can’t guard from everything already? And that the stuff the parasol guards from varies in between games because of game mechs. so that the only thing that really matters is that Peach can “guard” with a parasol…it’s pretty much the same idea with Link and him using a shield…from a logical stand point…

Oh...it was more funny if anything ^_^

Has he really stolen equipment and the like then?? O_O

...

Maybe it's not that funny…

What health system is Yoshi using?

Oh god...because a "health system" doesn't sound like a game mech huh? Really people...if we go by some game mechs. than Yoshi can never really die...unless he lands on spikes, falls off a cliff, or gets crushed, whatever else is around...

I really don't think Sonic would be strong enough to take the Star Rod from Bowser, but after going Super Sonic, he should be able to combo Bowser to keep him from using the Star Rod.

Actually...that is another issue with Sonic and him becoming Super Sonic...a good % of the games give hints about him having to need time to charge up and become super...

SA2 for example has this with a 4:00 minute long cutscene or so...
Sonic Heroes has this...I mean 9 people have to distract Metal Sonic until enough energy is grabbed from the chaos emeralds...

Bowser can turn invincible via the Star Rod.
Good.

Ike can't be hurt by anything that's not blessed by Ahsera or Yuna or w/e.

By wishing, can't Bowser simply wish, "I wish to be able to hurt Ike!"
It really seems like it'll work.
Srsly.

EDIT:
I'm 100% sure it'll work.

Careful pal...you are using assumptions based off things that would make sense...this thread has already banned that stuff like 8 times you know ^_^

Could he actually do that? What are the extent of the wishes? "Overcome the power of a god" may be a little beyond his reach. After all, if he could power himself that high, why didn't he do it in the game and overcome Mario?

God...How would overcoming the power of a god be beyond a device that is a tool used by the gods in the 1st place? God still…it’s not like he is overcoming a god…he is just trying to overcome another “tool” of a god…god...it's not like he is fighting the 1/2 power god itself...even though those star spirits would be considered gods...god...

^_^

Stop Watch will be useless on Ike as he's rather fast. And Star Rod can be Disarmed. Seeing as Ike is the attacker here, and Bowser the defender, Bowser will have to use all his healing items he can get.

Yes...because Bowser isn't fast...he jumps higher than Mario and for short distances such as in SM64 can run faster than Mario...

It's Bowser baby...he is lightning in a bottle...an earthquake in a can...the king of awesome...you know...Bowser ^_^

The only villain that has a higher loss record is Ganondorf or Ridley ^_^

If we go by % instead of just actual numbers ^_^

 

[justaway12]

Yoshi's story didn't have Peach in it...and you should check again with SMRPG...because she glides in that game using her parasol (when she joins your party for good)

I meant Island.
Oh yeah, but still http://sarge.wheresthebeef.co.uk/SGv2/Wallpapers/wallpaper[MarioSunshine]01.jpeg

Oh...and she glides in Yoshi's Island DS with it while Yoshi is carting her around...there are even normal foes gliding with parasols in that game (shy guys)

That is the game I meant.

The point I'm trying to make with the parasol and it's offense/defense skills is that they vary in between games...which proves that the way they really work is just game mechs.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't compare different parasols.
Can her parasol even defend in Yoshi's island?

The only things that matter with them is that they "guard", "float", and whatever else the game makers come up with (Yoshi's Island DS for example does have some other traits with it)

For SPP attack was more important, not to mention transfroming, which proves you can't.

That attack still has more meaning behind it than what psychic skills do (the stuff Kamak does is powered by that wand…w/o it I could argue that she is helpless pretty much)

He has PSI too, the powers of divination, brainwashing, foreseeing events in the future and manipulating objects with his mind.

So…why are we still arguing about Peach’s defensive skills when I’ve shown that she can’t guard from everything already? And that the stuff the parasol guards from varies in between games because of game mechs. so that the only thing that really matters is that Peach can “guard” with a parasol…it’s pretty much the same idea with Link and him using a shield…from a logical stand point…

I asked this question myself.

The only villain that has a higher loss record is Ganondorf or Ridley ^_^

Bowser has more, that's why he's the king.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This question comes up again; can Bowser wish for anything he wants, or is he limited to what he wishes for in game?

 

[Yink]

This question comes up again; can Bowser wish for anything he wants, or is he limited to what he wishes for in game?

It says the Star Rod grants "wishes". Wouldn't that mean any wish then?

http://www.mariowiki.com/Star_Rod_(PM)

EDIT: I also found this:

The Star Rod is a manifestation of the Star Spirits' power and can conceivably grant any wish possible. The only force strong enough to cancel the effects of the Star Rod is the combined powers of the seven Star Spirits, and even then only when manifested in a power known as the Star Beam.

Taken from here > http://www.mariowiki.com/Wish#Star_Rod

 

[REL38]

It says the Star Rod grants "wishes". Wouldn't that mean any wish then?

http://www.mariowiki.com/Star_Rod_(PM)

EDIT: I also found this:

The Star Rod is a manifestation of the Star Spirits' power and can conceivably grant any wish possible. The only force strong enough to cancel the effects of the Star Rod is the combined powers of the seven Star Spirits, and even then only when manifested in a power known as the Star Beam.

Taken from here > http://www.mariowiki.com/Wish#Star_Rod

Better proof of what tge Star Rod can do.

Raizen allowed wishing, so any wish (aside from, "I wish to win!") is legit and legal here.
Bowser got this.

 

[Ussi]

Disarm should work on Bowser to make Bowser unequip his star rod leaving him vulnerable for a hit.

Does Nihil qualify as preventing Bowser from using wishing directly on Ike? Nihil prevents skill useage.

 

[Rkey]

Does it even matter? I mean, Bowser has no blessings from any gods, right? He shouldn't be able to hurt Ike, at least from what I've read in the thread.

 

[Lovely]

If Ike won't get hit by regular attacks, than why does Dragon Laguz is able to hurt Ike then?

 

[missingnomaster]

If Bowser manages to activate invincibility, I'm pretty sure disarm no longer matters. He doesn't still need to hold the Star Rod once he's invincible, does he?

 

[REL38]

Disarm should work on Bowser to make Bowser unequip his star rod leaving him vulnerable for a hit.

Does Nihil qualify as preventing Bowser from using wishing directly on Ike? Nihil prevents skill useage.

Don't you need to be close to do that?

Bowser would be hundreds of feet in the air with his Koopa Clown Car.
Well out of range.

Uses Star Rod in the sky.
Invincible.
Wishes that he can hurt Ike.
Ike loses.

@Missing
He puts it away after using Invincibility.

 

[Ussi]

If Ike won't get hit by regular attacks, than why does Dragon Laguz is able to hurt Ike then?

Everyone is blessed end game

Don't you need to be close to do that?

Bowser would be hundreds of feet in the air with his Koopa Clown Car.
Well out of range.

Uses Star Rod in the sky.
Invincible.
Wishes that he can hurt Ike.
Ike loses.

@Missing
He puts it away after using Invincibility.

The bold part I questioned if Nihil qualifies as a prevention of wishing being used directly on Ike. The skill Parity also removes all effects for one instance to rely only on ability only, if that would work to remove invincibility off Bowser.

 

[REL38]

The bold part I questioned if Nihil qualifies as a prevention of wishing being used directly on Ike. The skill Parity also removes all effects for one instance to rely only on ability only, if that would work to remove invincibility off Bowser.

There's two ways it can work.

1. Ike's blessing is taken away

2. Bowser gains the ability to hurt Ike

I'm leaning toward the 2nd.

Bowser's invincibilty is only cancelled by the Star Spirits.
Only they hold the ability to over-ride the Star Rod.

 

[Ussi]

There's two ways it can work.

1. Ike's blessing is taken away

2. Bowser gains the ability to hurt Ike

I'm leaning toward the 2nd.

Bowser's invincibilty is only cancelled by the Star Spirits.
Only they hold the ability to over-ride the Star Rod.

How would Ike's blessing be taken away? (If Nihil works in preventing wishing directly on Ike)

 

[BSP]

It says the Star Rod grants "wishes". Wouldn't that mean any wish then?

http://www.mariowiki.com/Star_Rod_(PM)

EDIT: I also found this:

The Star Rod is a manifestation of the Star Spirits' power and can conceivably grant any wish possible. The only force strong enough to cancel the effects of the Star Rod is the combined powers of the seven Star Spirits, and even then only when manifested in a power known as the Star Beam.

Taken from here > http://www.mariowiki.com/Wish#Star_Rod

If we used this though, the sonic wiki also says that Super Sonic's ring count is a game mechanic, not a true limit....Are we using wikis as reliable sources?

 

[Yink]

If we used this though, the sonic wiki also says that Super Sonic's ring count is a game mechanic, not a true limit....Are we using wikis as reliable sources?

People have been using wikis for a lot of things I saw.

EDIT: Besides, don't the Star Spirits actually talk about the Star Rod? Just grab the text from the game where they talk about it. It's got to be in like, the opening or the first chapter.