Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Raizen?, Lucas should be under the category neutral, not negative 2.
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Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10
- Thread starter WhatIsRaizen?
- Start date
PowerBomb
Smash Master
@Samochan:
SO Dialga/Palkia nearly destroyed the world/created a new one by altering space/time?
And it's kind of strange, but Giratina and the Distortion World represent Antimatter (HGSS Arceus event).
SO Dialga/Palkia nearly destroyed the world/created a new one by altering space/time?
And it's kind of strange, but Giratina and the Distortion World represent Antimatter (HGSS Arceus event).
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Spike floors existing or not was never my point (An example showing that it isn’t 100% like it says it is doesn’t mean it’s going to be there)
Oh and have you tried shinesparking Samus against a spiked wall? Last I checked she stops moving and starts to take damage…how come her invincible dash can’t break through one spike wall?
I’ve already talked about Super Sonic too much and pointed out that his invincibility is more or less pretty limited as well in several ways…how about that?
-Knuckles in Sonic 3 has proven that you can break it
-Sonic in Sonic Advanced 2’s ending when falling towards the earth lost the form after struggling with the egg container
I think you miss my point here or there it seems…
Ness/Lucas’ shield is illogical because psychic powers are illogical in the 1st place in case you don’t get that…that is what I mean by that…and going on considering how this one shield I keep talking about has shown proof that it has protected from beams, bombs, missiles, bum rushes, and so on…that is the reason I’m saying that it can take Samus’ attacks…
Oh and your comment about the Metroid series giving a logical definition for Samus’ invincibility is hardly logical…
How does “running at super fast speeds which makes you invincible” a logical reasoning? Please answer that ok…
Oh and I like how you turn to name calling when you disagree with someone…
And they don’t go into much detail…
And again…there are two other booklets for newer games out there that gave a logical meaning behind said thing…which should remove anything that doesn’t have logic (invincibility)…and even give more info (the speed)…
The fact that it is a turn based game in the 1st place is only a game mech. actually…
That doesn’t really matter…the screw attack is in more than 3 games for one thing…and in all of the games it is in…they have actually given a logical reason for her not getting harmed…
And that reason for it is just simply because not many normal things can touch a whirling ball of electrical energy…how about that?
I’m not trying to take the powers away from her at all…I’m only trying to point out to you people that they have given logical reasons for why they work…
And it isn’t that they are invincible…
So…how has Lucas never used TK in battle again?
Um…no sorry…you only have 1 reference…not “many internet sources”
That one internet source you are talking about is the Metroid wiki…which is only making a reference to the same reference you have…
I have two references that give a logical meaning behind the speed booster…those are the Metroid Fusion, and the Metroid: Zero Mission instruction booklets…which are also official…
Because the series gave a logical meaning behind the move, it should remove any illogical assumptions about the move from older sources…invincibility is something that is illogical normally…
Again…the speed you move at is “supersonic” speed…and at supersonic speed you create a sonic boom…the energy from that is the only reason why Samus is “protected” as well as she is when she is using the speed booster…not because she is invincible…
Hell…the energy from that type of speed actually would explain why Samus can break “speed booster” blocks as well…
Also…just because one official source says that she is invincible while doing it doesn’t make it true…the instruction booklet for Wario Land 2 for example has Wario gloating that he is invincible and that he’ll never die…and for those games…he can’t…but later on for other Wario games in the series…he can die…thus showing that it was only for that game…and for canon isn’t true…
It could have been a mistake as well…as in not intended for the start of it…I mean Samus herself is subject to a lot of these for the other games…The Morph Ball for example was only put in because of limits in hardware (or something)…
Some games on the NES had gender issues with male and female characters (Castlevania 3) and there is plenty of proof out there that language translation is easy to **** up…
So…there are all sorts of logical reasons to avoid the whole one sentence description for Super Metroid’s speed booster…when there are two better things…
“Invincibility” applies way too much in these debates IMO…
Except it is overcome...by a wall/powerbomb block/screw attack block...
Also…how come it seems like I’m the only one who understands what TK is?
And again…Ness does show proof that he uses more powers than what he uses in battle…how many times do I have to bring that up using Ness’ Nightmare/various other foes that are a representation of Ness/the psychic powers shown by Ness at the various sanctuaries?
Again…if you read some of my posts…Mike was one of the things I talked about…Lucas fights mike like foes in his game…he breaks them…and spending 4 PP would deal with Lucas’ crying…it’s not like crying affects Lucas’ aim on his PK anyway though…if we’re going to bring up status affects…I don’t see how Kirby is going to take Lucas’ telepathic powers that well (PK Flash)
Status affects are more influenced by the IQ stat…which btw Lucas’ is high…
missingnomaster
Smash Lord
In what instruction booklet does it say that the Speed Booster isn't invincible? None.
One says it is. That statement is not contradicted simply because the others fail to mention it. The information from the different instruction booklets can be combined without any sort of contradiction as well.
One says it is. That statement is not contradicted simply because the others fail to mention it. The information from the different instruction booklets can be combined without any sort of contradiction as well.
But in Sonic adventure 2 battle, sonic re enters the atmosphere (mid fight) but is ok. I still don't think Knuckles' punch should count....why can't missles and rams knock you out of SS and a punch can? Has sSonic been knocked out of SS during gameplay?
Clinton is right. Ness/Lucas' shields will protect them from Samus' attacks. Though a powershield wouldn't help much against phazon since samus is immune to it right?
I don't know...the manual clearly states it's invincible, yet sonic runs at Supersonic speed and can get knocked out of it...idk...But really, the manual states that you are invincible, why are we denying it again?
You are the second most annoying person to debate against, _clinton, beaten only by galekill. Big wall of text full of quotes to _clinton, for all of you who want a heads up:
And bringing up how the shield is illogical, while talking about how Samus (from yet another non-real game) has illogical things that shouldn't be allowed, will only make people wonder why you would bring those words up in the first place. Lucas/Ness don't have explanations as to what their PSIs protect them from, yet Samus says it makes her invincible. Are you gonna take the things as they are defined? Or are you just gonna keep ignoring my statements in which I clearly say that "we'll be using Super Metroid's Speed Booster, which is defined as invincible", as well as assume what your precious shields can protect them from? If there are enemies that can attack through the shields, then I COULD say that Samus is strong enough to bypass the shields as well. What argument will you use as a rebuttal, I wonder...? "Samus's invincibility is a lol and the pure truth that is the Instruction Manual is too vague to call it invincible, so it's not invincible"... Yeah right.
Everywhere you might go, there is a lack of balance in where the energy can be found. Cities, forests, jungles, wastelands, glaciers: they all have differing levels of energy. The energy is constantly trying to look for balance, too: you can't keep a large amount of energy in one place without it eventually leaking into an area with less energy (or an area siphoning it). How can Samus be a ball of energy when she Screw Attacks, if the energy will be looking to escape into places where energy is lacking more? See, these arguments would be candidates of validity if the thread was based on real-world settings and based on real-life constants, but we're talking about FICTIONAL games. If they want to make Samus invincible after reaching supersonic speeds and describe it like that, then they can do it because it's THEIR world, with THEIR laws of nature. How can you try and mix in real-life things with purely fictional settings is beyond me, yet you still argue that it should be done, and only to aid you in your arguments at that.
tl;dr -- You are wrong. Come back with better structured arguments, and make sure you are on the same ground as us. Don't try to talk to us from another level, be it higher or lower, since we're all talking on a single level; we all agree on stuff, and you're the only one who disagrees on the grand majority of things... Care to share why this is?
If spiked floors are the only thing that knock Samus out of her Speed Boost, and this is a neutral battlefield (which makes spiked floors not exist now), then that pretty much makes her invincible now. How about that?
And do you know why she stops moving? BECAUSE SHE HITS A WALL (which is an obstacle, mind you)! *facepalm
Cutscenes. Since we established Sonic HAS a limit to his form, his rings could've run out at that moment. It's all assumptions, but saying Sonic lost his Super form because of struggling with the Egg container is also an assumption when there's already a stated probability as to how Sonic can lose his Super form against his will (ring time limit).
Looks like you misinterpret and fail to conceptualize points here and there as well.
Protected fully from attacks? Or just partially? And if the shields protect from attacks, I hardly see it as an obstacle, more like a defense. Your defense can't stop an invincible Samus from running.
And bringing up how the shield is illogical, while talking about how Samus (from yet another non-real game) has illogical things that shouldn't be allowed, will only make people wonder why you would bring those words up in the first place. Lucas/Ness don't have explanations as to what their PSIs protect them from, yet Samus says it makes her invincible. Are you gonna take the things as they are defined? Or are you just gonna keep ignoring my statements in which I clearly say that "we'll be using Super Metroid's Speed Booster, which is defined as invincible", as well as assume what your precious shields can protect them from? If there are enemies that can attack through the shields, then I COULD say that Samus is strong enough to bypass the shields as well. What argument will you use as a rebuttal, I wonder...? "Samus's invincibility is a lol and the pure truth that is the Instruction Manual is too vague to call it invincible, so it's not invincible"... Yeah right.
Yes, their "logical definition" is how they write in the Instruction Manual that she is invincible in Super Metroid. Considering it's from a sci-fi universe (which the gender has a lack of logic), direct explanation of its effects should make it known that the Speed Booster gives you invincibility. So, the logic should be: "When I use Speed Booster, I will be invincible, so I should not fear the enemies ahead of me and just run until I hit an unbreakable obstacle/spiked floor/pit/lava where I'll be forced to stop"... Understand now?
I can assure you that I have no control over your close-mindedness, and frustrations HAVE shown to peak at times. When will you open your mind to actual debating? All you're doing is turning a deaf ear to everything everyone says, and re-stating that you're the one that is RIGHT.
No, what they do is give up-to-date definitions to what the attack should be. Like I keep telling you over and over and you keep avoiding: What if we decide to go with the Super Metroid's version of the Speed Booster? Is it so much different than you choosing which shields Lucas/Ness should be getting from their previous games? If you want to let Lucas/Ness (whichever one you're talking about) get the perfect shields from the previous games, then why should we not get the already-stated-as-invincible Speed Booster from a previous game?
The fact that Lucas/Ness can contend against supersonic-speeding enemies should be attributed to their game mech. What do you do in a battle? Let's see... Take the damage from your enemy, then take all the time in the world choosing what will be your next attack, and lastly see the enemy as the attack strikes him due to him not moving and giving you a chance to hit them due to it being a TURN-BASED game. Game mechanic or not, the fact that Lucas/Ness can hit supersonic enemies no problem is because of that game mechanic. Take it away, and you just lost what gave you a chance against them. Same as if you take away the bosses' touch damage game mechanic, we can now Screw Attack them until they die and the game will become an infinitely easier version.
And thats where you're wrong. Wanna talk logical? If you don't know, energy is everywhere and affected at all times by any form of interaction: anything can interact with energy. Throw an ice cube into anything containing lots of energy and the ice cube will syphon the energy and melt into water (and maybe turn into steam, depending on how much energy there is). All it would take to kill Samus (or at least knock her out of Screw Attack [energy] state) is the insertion of any energy-siphoning scifi creation into her being, and she would lose her vitality in the blink of an eye (considering the speed in which energy can travel from system to system)...
Everywhere you might go, there is a lack of balance in where the energy can be found. Cities, forests, jungles, wastelands, glaciers: they all have differing levels of energy. The energy is constantly trying to look for balance, too: you can't keep a large amount of energy in one place without it eventually leaking into an area with less energy (or an area siphoning it). How can Samus be a ball of energy when she Screw Attacks, if the energy will be looking to escape into places where energy is lacking more? See, these arguments would be candidates of validity if the thread was based on real-world settings and based on real-life constants, but we're talking about FICTIONAL games. If they want to make Samus invincible after reaching supersonic speeds and describe it like that, then they can do it because it's THEIR world, with THEIR laws of nature. How can you try and mix in real-life things with purely fictional settings is beyond me, yet you still argue that it should be done, and only to aid you in your arguments at that.
Oh no, you're not trying to take away her powers at all? That's coming from the guy who's spent his whole time arguing against how Samus can gain invincibility when reaching supersonic speeds, when she reaches the limiter of vulnerability vs invincibility, as stated in the Instrustion Manual.
I meant the Dark Dragon.
Do you really want me to look for the multiple references that state Samus is invincible while Speed Boosting? As a debater, YOU should be the one looking for sources stating contrary to what I'm saying. Why should I do the work of defending myself, if you haven't properly debunked my arguments? Au contraire, it's YOUR job, as the receiver of my argument, to try and find the fallacy behind it and provide proof as to why my argument is invalid. I hardly see any proof anywhere, besides your own thoughts and opinions, which are not valid in any debate/discussion/argument.
No. Is this what your thought process is portraying Samus' universe to be? The fact that it has real-world definition doesn't lessen the fact that she is still invincible. It's a game, fiction, sci-fi, fake! The fact that they use real-world definitions to describe in-game occurrences is for the sole purpose of creating a more "realistic" atmosphere. She gets both effects: supersonic speed, and invincibility. The manual says she becomes invincible as soon as she hits supersonic speeds. Therefore, she will remain both supersonic and invincible. Debunk my arguments with some believable sources, and question mine AFTER you provide some that clearly state that my sources are wrong.
This is pure assumption. You can't see this happening in the game. Just because it happens in real-life and shares the same definitions doesn't mean that she immediately loses everything she gains from breaking that threshold. If anything, like I previously stated, her supersonic speed is the limiter for her invincibility: you only get it when you break through that limiter.
Blocks in the game are implemented so that you don't advance farther than the game wants you to advance. Speed Booster blocks can only be broken by Speed Booster because it's the "key" you have to present in order to break through to the newer areas. Otherwise, Screw Attack (being the most powerful of all Samus' standard weapons) would be able to break Super Missile blocks. Doesn't Screw Attack do way more damage than the Super Missile? Then she SHOULD be able to break through those blocks going by that logic. Why can't she, you ask? Well, because it's not the "key" she needs to advance to the newer areas; she still needs to shoot it with a weaker Super Missile in order to open it, just like you need Speed Booster momentum to break through Speed Booster blocks.
You are so wrong.
So, the game contradicts the definition, therefore he is not invincible, and I agree. Does that happen with Samus? Nope. Is her Speed Booster in later games not invincible, or do you still plow through enemies with no effort at all? The latter smells right to me! The only difference between the old description and the newer ones is that you had to leave the "run" button pressed in order to start the Speed Boosting. If anything, it's even easier to start Speed Boosting in the newer games than the older games. While neither the newer games nor their booklets state (or show) that Samus ISN'T invincible when Speed Boosting (like in the Wario games), then she keeps her invincibility intact, even if the "she's invincible" part was ommited. She is still invincible.
The Instruction Manual says she's invincible. The creators say it themselves. It's no mistake.
Whoop-dee-doo. You DO know that "making her invincible" is practically a phrase right? How can you add 3 words like that during translation? Durr, whoever did it must be an idiot then, since Samus is clearly not invincible.
Don't throw around the word "logical" without using it in proper context. And WHAT better things? If you ask me, the better description is Super Metroid's, since it tells you something the other ones refrain from letting you know: you're invincible while Speed Boosting.
So you try to debunk the characters' abilities to actually use the invincibility that is clearly stated as actual invincibility due to opinions? And you decide to pick Samus for that purpose? Sorry, but Samus' invincibility is clearly stated, and no amount of words without sources that state otherwise will change that fact.
She isn't overcome, her Speed Booster attack is limited to destroying Speed Booster blocks and enemies, not walls/spiked floors/powerbomb blocks/lava. If she is overcomed by something, while still over the same terrain, something can knock her out of her invincibility and cause her damage. THAT would be "overcome".
Because you define things with your own words, and give them your own uses. Obviously no one will understand what you are talking about when you bring up other topics, since your views are warped at times.
Does he use those power to aid him in battle? Does he even USE them whenever he desires? If anything, they're all "isolated incidents" which happen in specific situations (like his Sanctuary encounters, which only happen near Sanctuaries)... You should've told yourself that, rather than just post it here for us to see and debunk.
tl;dr -- You are wrong. Come back with better structured arguments, and make sure you are on the same ground as us. Don't try to talk to us from another level, be it higher or lower, since we're all talking on a single level; we all agree on stuff, and you're the only one who disagrees on the grand majority of things... Care to share why this is?
JOE!
Smash Hero
Every result says otherwise, and even against sonic, the only guy who could probably steal ragnell, ike won. Who would beat him?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Sonic can just warp Ike into the ground or space, or sun, or a tree.
Or stop time and THEN warp him.
Or stop time and THEN warp him.
PowerBomb
Smash Master
Actually, I can argue that the Speed Booster stopping when it hits a wall is a game mechanic. Samus can bust through walls made out of Speed Booster blocks, and the only reason why she can't bust through normal walls is because... well, I don't think the game developers would want Samus breaking through EVERYTHING. Doing that would break Metroid Fusion and her other games. I mean, it's like once you get the Speed Booster, OH I CAN GO THROUGH EVERYTHING AND MAKE THE GAME THAT MUCH EASIER
JOE!
Smash Hero
allright, then why not go back and re-evaluate MU's like that?
I mean as someone else pointed out there's a few Kirby matches that relied on HP bars for the outcome (along with i think the Earthbound Matches) that shouldnt apply with the new rules
Ussi
Smash Legend
Screw it, not like Ike has any way of getting out of space once he's there. He'd die of starvation at the very least
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I mentioned this repeatedly, people just dont listen to Sonic mains like they used to (if ever)
PowerBomb
Smash Master
Maybe a sun doesn't exist on that battlefield? Just an omni-present light that has no source?
*shrugs*
*shrugs*
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Who gives a ****? Wario's instruction manuals never gave an official reboot to his invincibility either...yet logically...
Nope...only cut scenes and such have done it...
How is she immune to her own attacks...the point of the power shield and such in the 1st place is that whatever the foe does to the user...they are going to feel it as well...so in a way it would be like if Samus shot herself with Phazon in this case…
Because the games later on used a logical term to define speed booster maybe...and that logical term does contradict the term invincibility...
No were in the definition of supersonic speed does there list that the speeds are able to make whoever is going that fast invincible...
The point of me bringing up spike floors and her getting knocked out of them in the 1st place has to do with the term invincibility...if she can't overcome that stuff...how is she truly invincible while speed boosting?
How come you didn’t comment on Knuckles then? Or how about Sonic Unleashes little losing Super Sonic event?
Like I said…they vary in between games…
My actual argument towards Samus and her speed booster if it really was invincible while doing it is more or less based off what the power shield does…which is make the user feel the blow that they are dealing on the other one they are hitting…
So…how would Samus be immune to that? Logically they aren’t attacking her…she is would be doing it to herself…
Again…like I said before…it shouldn’t matter if they are in a sci-fi universe…they used something from real life to define what that something was from their sci-fi universe so that viewers of that sci-fi universe would know more about it…which means that they would be subject to the rules behind stuff like that…
Why would you go with the Super Metroid’s version of the speed booster when there are two up-to date versions of it that don’t clash at all with definition compared to the original, but still seem to do the same thing?
BTW…if you did go with the Super Metroid version of it…would you really accept that shinesparking costs you health?
Anyway…I already responded to what would be with it and the shield…
Boy I wish people would stop putting words in my text…
I never said I would pick and chose shields…I only said that the shields of the same basic idea vary a lot with said games themselves…so from that…I’m A. Only going to take the basics for what they do in their normal definition…B. Not even pay attention to random numbers with regards to this:
It’s unfair to say that Ness’ PK Rockin Omega would OHKO Mario because of him only being shown to have 50 or so HP from his RPGs…the only amount of damage that Rockin Omega really matters for is EB…and compared to that…it is the strongest attack PSI in the game…get my point?
It’s the same idea with things like Link’s/Samus’ heart containers/energy tanks…How much are 14/20 hearts and 14/20 tanks worth in another world?
It’s also the same thing with regard to Ike’s blessing and Ganondorf’s defenses with regards to having a sword wound in the stomach…
Ah…no…on the game map you see it…and it is even part of the story with their skills…
You don’t see anything at all actually…it was even done that way on purpose (to use your “imagination” according to Itoi)…and the rest of your post clearly has underestimation and extreme biased of what Ness/Lucas did for their canon…
God…what you just said was something like this:
“The only reason why Samus was able to fight with phazon based enemies is because of game mechs. in a turn based battle system they would have hit her each time because you can’t manually dodge their attacks in a turn based battle system”
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/589573/36379
Screw Attack
Found:Vault
Scan Info:The Screw Attack allows you to transform into a mobile ball of
deadly energy. After executing a Space Jump, press B repeatedly to initiate
and perform the Screw Attack. Use the Control Stick to steer while in Screw
Attack mode.
Nope…just because I disagree with one thing that was said about it that does not mean I’m taking it away…if I was trying to take it away I would just argue that in boss fights:
“You never have enough room to activate the speed booster…so logically…how can Samus use it in a battle” anyway when she has never been shown to use it in any strong foe fight?”
How is it not his again? The game says this info about it in the game script…
A. The power calls him master…you know…that is the big one…
B. The power is reflected in his soul
C. The user is reflected in the power
Not really…there is only one reference that says she is invincible while speed boosting…and we don’t even know what the original text was for that…because that is just a translation as well (Oh my…I wonder what the original says?)
http://metroid-database.com/sm/m3jpcard.jpg
Actually…they could have clearly meant something else besides what you think…they could have been referencing to just game play while using it…not the move itself…
Hell…the fact that an instruction booklet in the 1st place is a large reference mainly for how the game works is part of the reason for me thinking this…
They could have been just simply explaining the game mechs. with that definition…
Would you actually look up what TK is and see how I’m so called doing that?
Why does that matter? The thread is again…what if such and such characters where true to their games...the fact that he has them is proof that he could use them if he wanted to…again…it’s just like with other characters…we have never seen Samus use the speed booster with Phazon weaponry…but is there really any doubt in your minds that she could have used the speed booster with Phazon weaponry in the game?
And he absorbs them…how about that?
I like how random people that have come into this thread have also pointed out that Samus being invincible while speed boosting is BS…man that is funny…hell…other Samus fans I’ve debated with before the past haven’t even said that about the speed booster…
Ussi
Smash Legend
Though one thing I question is, Sonic is very vulnerable just after he comes out of Chaos control. Although i don't know how the wrapping of the arc went since you don't see what happens to Sonic... but when Sonic used chaos control in both the cutscene and Boss battle he had to regain himself back. Say Ike's blessing lets him live in space. (Since the Black Knight survived being crushed from a castle, its plausible...) Ike could grasp Sonic with his super human strength and hold onto Sonic till his rings run out then finish him off.
PowerBomb
Smash Master
Friendly fire doesn't hurt Samus (lol game mech). But if her weaponry is wielded by someone else, than yeah. Reversed weaponry doesn't do any damage to her. Game mech bonanza, perhaps?
Metroid Fusion is the latest in the time line. In that game, the Speed Booster is totally invincible (no contradictions to Super Metroid) and the shine spark doesn't hurt her.
I don't even know if the Countered blows would hurt an invincible Samus. She hasn't really been 'countered' in that way while Speed Boosting. Invincibility might protect her... it probably will, considering it's invulnerability. I don't know.
Metroid Fusion is the latest in the time line. In that game, the Speed Booster is totally invincible (no contradictions to Super Metroid) and the shine spark doesn't hurt her.
I don't even know if the Countered blows would hurt an invincible Samus. She hasn't really been 'countered' in that way while Speed Boosting. Invincibility might protect her... it probably will, considering it's invulnerability. I don't know.
Samochan
Smash Master
Yea, that's what I'm saying. :3 Altering time/space IS a strong and big power.
I don't think it says giratina represents antimatter, it's yet to be translated. :/
It could, in theory, but I don't think it's anything conclusive as of yet, not before we get an accurate translation. And even on the case of fan translation, it's open to intrepretation and not completely accurate. Personally I've yet to encounter one (unless I've completely missed HGSS USA release or something lol).
My theory is that giratina represents chaos/distortion. Space + time creates a spacetime continuity, somewhat orderly. Without space, there'd be empty void and without time, nothing could happen in space. Time makes time flow and things start to happen, while space fills that void with something (materia, something not emptyness). Get what I'm saying? Anyways, if space and time would represent order, Giratina would represent the other side of the coin, aka something not orderly. Chaos or distortion. His homeworld where he's the king and basically only being, is very random and distorted, thus named torn/distortion world appropriately. Things are flipped in every which way, platforms and trees disappear and reappear randomly on your path, water flows upwards instead of downwards... also, if giratina were able to distort things, he could distort the fabric of space to create portals in which he could appear to the normal world from distortion world, as happens on platinum. His power to vanish could also be attributed to manipulation of this skill, though I'm guessing here. He also has sorta connection with Dialga & Palkia, not just because he's one of the third but also because each reside in different dimension and if Dialga & Palkia are distrupted, it distrupts Giratina('s dimension) as well. Dialga, Palkia & Giratina were the first beings Arceus created, after that the beings of Emotion, Knowledge and Willpower came to be (and so on). Aka if the other side of the coin, order, becomes distrupted and not orderly, it would greatly affect the balance between these two sides. Which is why giratina got pissed at Cyrus and dragged him to distortion world in the first place.
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I believe it would be troublesome if samus could speed boost through the walls and then go into secret worlds lol. Samus can shinespark draygon without getting damaged and spikes is not flat floor, therefore she can't run and be invincible with speed booster. She can shinespark to spikes just fine though. >.>
Anyways, if samus is invincible on occasion, then we go with that. Nothing contradicts this nor do the new versions mean anything to the fact you're invincible on super. Besides if an ability showcases something new on one game but it's he same ability, these abilities stack up so we get he max potential stuff, just like everyone else gets abilities from many games. On new versions speed booster's status is different and game mechanics differ from super as well, so it would make little sense to make her completely invincible (though I've yet to see anything that harms her on mzm nor fusion, cept maybe bosses). But as nothing conradicts this invincibility, i's here to stay. Official manual and a whole game is kinda hard to refute as faulty lol.
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Getting countered would mean you'd have to do so at her running speed, cause you need to make contact in order to counter physical damage. On RPG it's no matter, turn based and all, but samus won't stick around to get damaged, nor would she get if she's invincible when running around. Counter also won't stack up, you can't release it whenever you wish but just after you get hit.
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Samus weapons hurting herself would make little sense. She has so much firepower anyway, and basically the release of this energy, when you destroy boxes and enemies, leaves behind health and recharge energy to her. It's most likely excess energy, or life energy being created when coming in contact with materia. (metroids suck out random energy, usually refered to as life energy, but can also produce such energy in large quantities. chozos created metroids and power suit, so hmm...).
JOE!
Smash Hero
Samochan
Smash Master
>_> I've yet to see any matchup being decided by some health bar mechanics, either ridiculous or not. Least not solely, but pichu losing cause he has low health and defence is reasonable argument for example. And besides, health is very essential part of the games, some chars have more health than others obviously and some seem to have little health, but can take quite amount or strong hits.
In the end however, it's up to Raizen to decide and us to bother and debate all the matchups again. We didn't agree to the ban invincibility chars rule though. >_> That would ban hammer way too many chars anyway.
Diddy Kong
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2004
- Messages
- 26,313
- Switch FC
- SW-1597-979602774
Mewtwo lost to Ness cause of health mechanics. I think that's the only match up that was really decided by this. I always said that we shouldn't do it that way.
With the new rules, Mewtwo's Me First will **** Ness.EarthBound match ups still had the right outcome I think. Ness vs Wolf for example didn't rely on game mechanics, PK Flash would just **** Wolf. Ness vs Pit will have Ness as the victor cause of strong PSI and healing as well.
Lucas vs Falco might need a re-do? Though Counter PSI would still be troubling for Falco. Lucas' PK Flash sucks, so he can't rely on that here. PK Love would still do nice enough damage to Falco. Lucas lost to Samus, and that will stay the same.
As for this match up, Zelda isn't experienced enough to take down Marth. Marth's army took control of his game's whole continent, and Marth himself can be one of your strongest fighters even with the Falchion.
If Zelda just really knew Din's Fire she might've do some damage, but Marth will win because he's more experienced. Zelda isn't a great archer either, so she'll probably miss Marth if she tries to shoot him with Light Arrows from a distance.
justaway12
Smash Master
What? You said the game said nothing of it, yet it's quite clear that she did defend from everything, even guard command takes away HP.
Whatever you already shown she get's hurt by fire
Kk, will later, I have to go to school soon
Why does PK cost money? Well, whatever, I didn't mean that, I meant that the sheild could still be comparable to Sp.Def, it's a special, as in, not a regular attack and not items.
I don't mean small cameos.
A force of energy? If it moved them back, then it should move them out of the screen.
Those aren't the only examples.
They are not limiting Ness and Lucas, they are using the in-game things, that's why it's "true to thier games"
And Vibe Island doesn't have anything to do with it right?
wiki said:
How hard is it to make an earthquake?
I see...
Because he doesn't know how to do it, he had to get possesed by Dimentio to unlock it right?
In the boss battle, he does take some time to get running again, but it's only like a second iirc. Plus, if he's super sonic, it doesn't really matter if he lags. How can ike's blessing let him live in space? You would have to prove that one. Eggmans giant robot couldn't hold SS, why should ike be able to?
Ussi
Smash Legend
Ike is no "giant robot" he's a super human. 1 second is enough for Ike to react.
My only plausible example from Fire Emblem is that The Black Knight, survived a castle collapsing on top of him wearing blessed armor. I figure if the Black Knight can survive being crushed by a castle, Ike can survive the crushing pressures of Space....
Samus retains her Speed Booster invincibility, whether you like it or not. I'm tired of repeating the same things over and over, and you trying (in futility) to make it so it goes away just so Lucas/Ness (your favorite characters, apparently) win their battles. Screw Attack, Samus can still use it to get by enemy attacks without taking damage and crash into opponents for massive damage.
I'm done with you, _clinton. Your facepalming "logic" is too much for me ("the translation for Speed Booster might be wrong, so she doesn't have invincibility"? What the hell kind of argument is that?).
I'm done with you, _clinton. Your facepalming "logic" is too much for me ("the translation for Speed Booster might be wrong, so she doesn't have invincibility"? What the hell kind of argument is that?).
Umm... What about the lack of air?
PowerBomb
Smash Master
@Samochan: If you're going to take PMD games as canon, I might as well say this: Dialga can't travel back in time without expending too much of its energy, so it has to recharge it afterwards.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
I’m going to make this post shorter because of how long they have been…
Diddy Kong…
1. Even with Me 1st we have no way of telling if M2 would be moving before Ness…again how many times do I have to point out that Ness’ speed is if anything above average as well? At the end…it bloody ties with Poo’s base if anything…Poo’s base is above average…and again anyway…The base speed stat doesn’t count for jack in EB/M3…you really only need a crystal charm and you have around 1/3rd of the full speed you would need…Ness’ large stat boost he gets covers over ½ of the actual speed you would need as well…
2. Lucas’ PK Flash hardly sucks…there is only one level of it…but there is only one level of Starstorm as well in that game (and that one level represents EB’s omega level…I wonder what Lucas’ Flash is?)
Plus most of the foes for this debate are going to be ****ed just from not being able to see in the 1st place…which is the weakest level of power from Flash…anyone who is driving something for example (MK, the Star Fox characters) would be pretty ****ed if they can’t see where they are going…
Samus is pretty helpless when she can’t see as well if you look at the Metroid Prime games for an example…ever been hit by a flash grenade/had some static enter your vision from certain foes? The static is pretty easy to deal with…but the flash grenade affects Samus’ personal vision (not just her suit)
Yeah well imagine that flash grenade happening but the stuff won’t go away after it is done and you can’t just switch visors to something like X-Ray vision because this is a mental attack that is happening to the person in the suit…
So…how is Samus going to handle not being able to see?
On another note…I like how some games have had Samus start out with the suit of pure WING because it is awesome like that…but a bump on the head and so on reduces it to nothing…and then you have to spend the entire game picking up the power ups again…just so you can only use 2 of them on the final boss…
(I guess I better get to my point) So…how come Samus has shown that being blasted into a wall with enough force will damage her suits powers…and how like several characters (like Luigi for example) could easily blast her with a large force of energy…have lost again?
If you don’t get what I’m saying, I mean…Samus has lost her suit for this reason at 4:53-5:08 and several characters in this thread seem strong enough to do something like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJpH7WTuJyg&feature=related
Thank god she is build to at least take her own blasts...but...would someone please explain that part of Prime to me? Because it is not the only example I have where Samus loses something from that...
Justaway12:
1. The whole point of the parasol in the 1st place being good was that you guys said it made her invincible…you didn’t really show any proof to that though…so I found proof that you were wrong…from the game mechs. itself and from the game script:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/933012/51079
"When playing as Princess Peach, you can use her umbrella in a few ways. Press
and hold 2 while jumping to float slowly down. In addition, press the D-Pad
down to use your umbrella to guard against enemy attacks. When you want to
change your character, choose him or her on the menu screen."
A guard is hardly invincibility…and going on…because the whole point about the argument in the 1st place with Ness/Peach ending in a draw was because of a parasol supposedly making Peach invincible…and I have proven that it isn’t invincibility…I don’t even know why we are arguing about this anymore…
2. I think you need to play the Mother games…when I say cost of a move…I’m not talking about money man…
3. Just because some TMs have extreme examples doesn’t mean they are false…remember…the pokemon world is comprised of mythological monsters that are keep as pets on purpose. For, example, have you looked at what things like Ninetails and Arcanine actually are? Ryukyuan Shisa is an Arcanine and a kitsune is a Ninetails…look them up if you want to see what they are…oh and they aren’t the only ones…
Kewkky…just a few things as well:
1. Ness/Lucas fights are hardly the only ones I’m arguing about for the 15th time…
2. You keep on saying that I’m avoiding arguments and twisting things…but the Samus side is actually doing it as well…they have yet to respond with how Samus is going to take PK Flash and end up not being able to see for example (which is why I put the bulk of info this time at the start of the discussion)
And in regards to Speed Booster…I don’t even really know why I’m arguing against one little thing about it…it is very easy to stop normally anyway…
A. The requirements for getting it to activate are hard to do in the 1st place…and it is very easy to lose that speed…I like how no one has responded to this criticism of the bloody move that I have posted already as well..
Look at this video to see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eyJZvranSc
At 0:55-0:59…Samus shows that she can’t even start to speed boost because of some simple cracks in the land prevent smooth running…Lucas has been shown to move Draco size rocks with his TK when he had to access the Fire Spring needle…
The Draco may look small in Mother 3’s GBA like graphics…but let us look at what it was going to be:
http://starmen.net/eb64/images/drago2.jpg
With that info…I don’t see why he couldn’t just alter the land they are fighting on to prevent Samus from being able to run about easily anyway…
And on another note that has nothing to do with the Samus vs. Lucas fight and is just personal if anything…I still think Ness was going to have a role in that game:
http://starmen.net/eb64/images/bigtrees2.jpg
Plus going on…in order to activate the speed booster…she needs more room to run than a large room that that I bet could maybe fit like 4 of her actually fairly large space ships in…
Diddy Kong…
1. Even with Me 1st we have no way of telling if M2 would be moving before Ness…again how many times do I have to point out that Ness’ speed is if anything above average as well? At the end…it bloody ties with Poo’s base if anything…Poo’s base is above average…and again anyway…The base speed stat doesn’t count for jack in EB/M3…you really only need a crystal charm and you have around 1/3rd of the full speed you would need…Ness’ large stat boost he gets covers over ½ of the actual speed you would need as well…
2. Lucas’ PK Flash hardly sucks…there is only one level of it…but there is only one level of Starstorm as well in that game (and that one level represents EB’s omega level…I wonder what Lucas’ Flash is?)
Plus most of the foes for this debate are going to be ****ed just from not being able to see in the 1st place…which is the weakest level of power from Flash…anyone who is driving something for example (MK, the Star Fox characters) would be pretty ****ed if they can’t see where they are going…
Samus is pretty helpless when she can’t see as well if you look at the Metroid Prime games for an example…ever been hit by a flash grenade/had some static enter your vision from certain foes? The static is pretty easy to deal with…but the flash grenade affects Samus’ personal vision (not just her suit)
Yeah well imagine that flash grenade happening but the stuff won’t go away after it is done and you can’t just switch visors to something like X-Ray vision because this is a mental attack that is happening to the person in the suit…
So…how is Samus going to handle not being able to see?
On another note…I like how some games have had Samus start out with the suit of pure WING because it is awesome like that…but a bump on the head and so on reduces it to nothing…and then you have to spend the entire game picking up the power ups again…just so you can only use 2 of them on the final boss…
(I guess I better get to my point) So…how come Samus has shown that being blasted into a wall with enough force will damage her suits powers…and how like several characters (like Luigi for example) could easily blast her with a large force of energy…have lost again?
If you don’t get what I’m saying, I mean…Samus has lost her suit for this reason at 4:53-5:08 and several characters in this thread seem strong enough to do something like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJpH7WTuJyg&feature=related
Thank god she is build to at least take her own blasts...but...would someone please explain that part of Prime to me? Because it is not the only example I have where Samus loses something from that...
Justaway12:
1. The whole point of the parasol in the 1st place being good was that you guys said it made her invincible…you didn’t really show any proof to that though…so I found proof that you were wrong…from the game mechs. itself and from the game script:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/933012/51079
"When playing as Princess Peach, you can use her umbrella in a few ways. Press
and hold 2 while jumping to float slowly down. In addition, press the D-Pad
down to use your umbrella to guard against enemy attacks. When you want to
change your character, choose him or her on the menu screen."
A guard is hardly invincibility…and going on…because the whole point about the argument in the 1st place with Ness/Peach ending in a draw was because of a parasol supposedly making Peach invincible…and I have proven that it isn’t invincibility…I don’t even know why we are arguing about this anymore…
2. I think you need to play the Mother games…when I say cost of a move…I’m not talking about money man…
3. Just because some TMs have extreme examples doesn’t mean they are false…remember…the pokemon world is comprised of mythological monsters that are keep as pets on purpose. For, example, have you looked at what things like Ninetails and Arcanine actually are? Ryukyuan Shisa is an Arcanine and a kitsune is a Ninetails…look them up if you want to see what they are…oh and they aren’t the only ones…
Kewkky…just a few things as well:
1. Ness/Lucas fights are hardly the only ones I’m arguing about for the 15th time…
2. You keep on saying that I’m avoiding arguments and twisting things…but the Samus side is actually doing it as well…they have yet to respond with how Samus is going to take PK Flash and end up not being able to see for example (which is why I put the bulk of info this time at the start of the discussion)
And in regards to Speed Booster…I don’t even really know why I’m arguing against one little thing about it…it is very easy to stop normally anyway…
A. The requirements for getting it to activate are hard to do in the 1st place…and it is very easy to lose that speed…I like how no one has responded to this criticism of the bloody move that I have posted already as well..
Look at this video to see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eyJZvranSc
At 0:55-0:59…Samus shows that she can’t even start to speed boost because of some simple cracks in the land prevent smooth running…Lucas has been shown to move Draco size rocks with his TK when he had to access the Fire Spring needle…
The Draco may look small in Mother 3’s GBA like graphics…but let us look at what it was going to be:
http://starmen.net/eb64/images/drago2.jpg
With that info…I don’t see why he couldn’t just alter the land they are fighting on to prevent Samus from being able to run about easily anyway…
And on another note that has nothing to do with the Samus vs. Lucas fight and is just personal if anything…I still think Ness was going to have a role in that game:
http://starmen.net/eb64/images/bigtrees2.jpg
Plus going on…in order to activate the speed booster…she needs more room to run than a large room that that I bet could maybe fit like 4 of her actually fairly large space ships in…
Mike Kirby's Power=Frightbot?
Mike Kirby's Power=Gently Weeping Guitar and the Beaten Drum?
Those foes were not strong (and some of them were broken...and sad)
Mike Kirby also deals damage so that status effect still comes with ear pounding pain. Lucas is still not immune to status effects. Ice Kirby's special ability is solidifying his victim in a block on ice.
Like we said before Kirby has a magic shield. On that note Lucas' attack PSI use up a lot of PP, on his team his main purpose was defense and support. Kumatora was the fire power of the group.
justaway12
Smash Master
Ussi
Smash Legend
Well, Logically speaking, Sonic needs air of some sort since he DROWNS in his own game, but since Sonic breathes in space, so Sonic's space isn't really like our space thus allowing life to breathe there... Sonic won't warp to another "space" since he only knows his universe
also...there aren't any signs of Ike needing to breathe in Fire Emblem, there was a battle in the sky (up in the clouds) where normally people would not be able to breathe easy enough to fight there.
Samochan
Smash Master
I can't recall where it was said Dialga can't travel back in time without expending too much energy, though it makes sense. He's one huge pokemon and it might be much much easier to port someone else or just manipulate than to control time & travel through it at the same time. However if you're refering to Primal Dialga below, which Dusknoir speaks of...
"Primal Dialga is actually a Dialga that lost control over its ability to control time due to the collapse of the Temporal Tower and changed to this form. In this form, it is also incapable of logical reasoning or showing mercy, only seeking self-preservation and preventing time from flowing properly.
Although Primal Dialga has lost control of its power, it can still warp through time and use its signature move Roar of Time. "
--
Clinton, samus can travel within pure light, but doesn't get blinded. >_> I seriously doubt one flash grenade is better than pure light. She also travels through phendrana drifts without getting blinded by the snow. She also gets hit by explosions directly to the head many times, beams of various kind (like light) and yet her vision is clear as a day. You are forgetting that not only she has chozo blood within her (liek birds and their keen vision lol, but these are alien birdos), but her suit protects against such things, like you're incapable of seeing sonic boom with echo visor as the flash would most likely hurt her eyes and when you fight against thardus and thermal visor gets overloaded by a bright flash of thermal energy, she's just fine when she just switches visors. Her suit is certainly capable of protecting her eyes from random bright flashes just as it warns samus about environmental damage, heck even astronauts nowdays have those layers in their visors so they don't get blinded by sun. Samus power suit is much, much more advanced technology and a space suit to boot, so what makes you think that with all the evidence of contrary, she could actually be blinded by a bright flash? She experiences bright flashes all the time, but goes on like nothing ever happened.
Samus doesn't exacly care whether an attack is mental or not, it still needs to go through her power suit shielding, whether it's matter or not matter. Chozo ghost electroplasma or whatever energy they use is fairly close to psychic attack, like poltergeist, intangible spiritual energy. She was even raised by a race that are Seers, intelligent naturalist pacifists that meditate and so on, then got a blood transfusion from them, enhancing her physioque and most likely mental capacity as well. The ability to transform into a morph ball is one ability passed down to samus by blood transfusion, or at least made it possible for her to do so with the help of morph ball upgrade (doesn't do her any good if her suit cannot transform with her). She also exhibits prodigious puzzle solving and hacking skills. She can also adapt to alien environments normal humans wouldn't survive, for example being able to breathe just fine in the toxic atmosphere of Elysia when normal humans would get killed by said toxic.
"When the Chozo developed from their ancient form, each race's characteristic physical abilities were enhanced. Each member of the various tribes had the astonishing abilities to perform quick movements while running, leap high in the air, and have flexible bodies that can uniquely transform into a sphere. These abilities contributed greatly to the prosperity of the Chozo culture. The various powerup items Samus gains contain the physical abilities the ancient Chozo excelled at."
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Have you looked at the stats for a frightbot and what the sound it makes it like?
It sounds a lot like the same idea for it that mike Kirby has in his attacks…
Also…where is the logic behind saying that mike will make Lucas suddenly not be able to perform PK moves anyway…
And Lucas has shields as well…how about that?
Lucas’ attack PSI uses up a lot of PP because of its power…and considering how at the end of the game Lucas pretty much A. can beat Kumatora in PP amount, B. PK Starstorm is Kumatora’s best move overall…yet Rockin/Love beats it
That should tell you how Lucas becomes sort of a multi role party member of the team (who is good at all of them I might add) Duster, Kumatora, and Boney are around and have their strengths still…but in the end if anything…they are support for Lucas…which is pretty much the same thing that happened with Ness…
>_>
The fact that they didn’t address it as invincibility is proof that it isn’t invincibility in the 1st place…
If they wanted to say it was invincibility…they would have said it…they wouldn’t have called it a guard…
Guarding the move well?
Not if they guard it right…
Or it’s just a game mech. you know…because last I checked…the game mechs. for SPM are a bit different than the game mechs. for the other Paper Mario games…for one thing they are more of a plat former type game…
And Peach’s parasol is hardly the only thing in the Mario series with the traits it has…
How? Haven’t you ever heard of breaking a guard? That pretty much is the thing Ness gets good at doing at the end of the game…
The point I’m trying to make in the 1st place is that TMs don’t really make any sense…and only seem to be put in for part of the game mechs.
I mean…do you really think Pokemon can only remember 4 things?
Samochan, PK Flash isn’t really considered light…it is more or less only a mental assault…I just figured I should bring that up right now before I go on…
As far as Elysia goes…IMO…I’m pretty sure that at the very least the atmosphere is semi-habitable for the outpost of the planet…which is the reason why Samus uses her Zero Suit in the ending for that game…not because she could breath in such said stuff…I mean she and the Chozo aren’t the only things that have been on there…The GF and Space Pirate forces have had operations in SkyTown at said points…of course…who knows really what the answer is? I guess you could have this part of the debate if you wanted...I don't really care ^_^
Anyway…going on about the Chozo…they aren’t the only alien race in these debates that is seen as advanced…Sci-fi is largely used in the Mother games as well…I mean…your foes are bloody aliens ^_^
The Chozo have created life for example…well guess what…the aliens in the Mother games have created life as well…hell even Porky was in that area or at the least creating ****ed up life (on purpose though)
Anyway…considering how Lucas/Ness have been shown to use telepathic powers on these aliens that have done plenty of the same things the Chozo have done…and Ness himself has shown that his mental defense is great enough to resist corruption from this race of aliens (Lucas has shown his mental strength in other ways however)…I’d think it is safe to say that their telepathic powers are a bit more than above average…
What do you think the Chozo have done in that hasn’t been done by some of the aliens in the EB series if you don’t mind my asking? (BTW…another thing I’m still waiting for a reply to about how Samus is going to defend vs. something is in regards to the shield killer stuff that is in EB)
justaway12
Smash Master
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ Just to make sure everyone's aware of Mike Kirby, it can not be stopped, blocked, or dodged while on screen unless you have the power to travel to another dimension before he picks up the mic and sing. Mic Kirby to a big boss, (per-ultimate or ultimate boss), takes away more than half of their heath in less than 10 seconds. But Mic Kirby in Kirby Dreamland or Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble is One Hit KO, but it's never tested in bosses, and the Mic Kirby in Kirby Adventure/Nightmare in Dreamland or Kirby Super Star/Ultra can perform One Hit KO on regular enemies but not bosses or sub-bosses. ☆
☆ Oh and Copy, Mirror, and Plasma Kirby FTW!!! ☆
☆ Oh and Copy, Mirror, and Plasma Kirby FTW!!! ☆
JOE!
Smash Hero
you know there is 0 pressure in space, right? In fact, it's the opposite of pressure: it pulls you apart because it's a vaccuum.
You cannot use the black knight argument if Ike isnt covered head-to-toe in armor, he has open parts that WILL be effected by space.
as for air, Sonic was never in outer-space, he was at the space-staton which probably had some air-bubble around it. As super sonic he doesnt need to breathe.
Ganonsburg
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,083
There's no such thing as "opposite of pressure." Because there's pressure little (not "no") in space, the pressure pushes on your skin (and muscles and bones; everything holding you together) and makes you explode. Space doesn't "pull you apart."
This means if your body is strong enough (via blessing, magic, armor, etc), you could actually survive. I'm sure Ganon could. Super Sonic probably could too. Samus has armor built out of strong enough materials to protect her. Bowser probably could survive. So on, so on (although I'm not counting for lack of oxygen).
So pretty much the people who could survive space are the people who are already invincible. Shocker.
WhatIsRaizen?
Smash Ace
I really didn't say anything about allowing space.
New MU btw.
Vs.
Current Match-Up:
THE POKEMON TRAINER Vs. THE SUPER HUMAN
Pokemon Trainer Vs. Zero Suit Samus
Vs.
Loser's Round 4, Match 4.
Who will emerge victorious?
New MU btw.
Current Match-Up:
THE POKEMON TRAINER Vs. THE SUPER HUMAN
Pokemon Trainer Vs. Zero Suit Samus
Vs. Loser's Round 4, Match 4.
Who will emerge victorious?
missingnomaster
Smash Lord
You've actually got it exactly backwards. Samus has taken things far more impressive than that explosion in Prime without losing her suit. Try getting hit by Mother Brain's Hyper Beam with only the Varia or Power Suit equipped. It does a ton of damage, but Samus doesn't lose any equipment. There's also the Omega Metroid in Fusion that leaves Samus with only one energy tank after an attack before getting the X Suit, yet still no equipment loss.
There's also the fact that if Samus didn't lose equipment between games for no reason at all, that she would be equipped well enough that the scenarios that caused her to lose equipment would be completely laughable.
EDIT: I think PT can win this one. Lack of Plasma Beam means Red can hide behind something like Kyogre and use Surf to slow ZSS down (based on Metroid mechanics, that should happen), and hit her with powerful attacks like Thunder and Ice Beam (doesn't Samus have a weakness to cold because of the Metroid Vaccine?)
Ussi
Smash Legend
embargo prevents ZSS from using her gun. Inflict some status effect on her. Is PT allowed two pokemon out at least? Can keep a shield pokemon up while one attacks.
Btw pokemon trainer pic is win
Btw pokemon trainer pic is win
missingnomaster
Smash Lord
He can start with one pokemon already out, and can send out the other 5 if he wants.